GM Volt Forum banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Administrator
Joined
·
20,646 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Navigant considers GM to be the driverless car leader due to both its software sophistication and its ability to mass produce the cars (and solid state LIDAR) at scale.

A new report from the consulting firm Navigant ranks the 19 major players in the emerging driverless car industry. Navigant analysts see GM and Waymo as the clear industry leaders, while Tesla is dead last, alongside Apple.

"The Autopilot system on current products has stagnated and, in many respects, regressed since it was first launched in late 2015," Navigant writes. "More than one year after launching V2, Autopilot still lacks some of the functionality of the original, and there are many anecdotal reports from owners of unpredictable behavior."

"In a May 2017 TED talk, Musk claimed the systems being built today would be Level 5 capable"—that is, suitable for full self-driving with just a software update—"by 2019," Navigant notes. "However, this is unlikely to ever be achievable."

"Current Tesla hardware lacks the ability to keep sensors clean and unobscured in poor weather as well as most of the redundant systems needed for fully automated driving," Navigant writes. It follows that with more shortcomings and roadblocks in front of Tesla.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/0...mo-far-ahead-of-tesla-in-driverless-car-race/

Seems like GM has come out of the AV saloon guns blazing and catapulted itself from nowhere to the leader in record time by spending some serious billions on Cruise Automation and the solid state LIDAR manufacturer Strobe. Coupled with its ability to engineer and mass produce cars, it enjoys a unique advantage over the others. And it's not letting grass grow under the tires.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,416 Posts
Gee whiz, I already had the impression GM was the leader.

With 44 corporations working on this, how does a GM - Tesla comparison matter? Because Musk opened his mouth?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
20,646 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
With 44 corporations working on this, how does a GM - Tesla comparison matter? Because Musk opened his mouth?
It's also a GM Apple comparison, but no one really talks about Apple. But yes, Musk's Megaphone calls attention to Tesla and the perception (hype?) that has been created that Tesla is the AV leader, what with AutoPilot, the claims that camera's (no LIDAR) are all that is needed, etc.

GM's rise in self driving EV's at odds with the popular narrative that it is old school, doesn't "get it", is not innovating, etc., etc.

By the way, way to go, Marry Barra!

P.S, It just took Navigant a while to catch up with you, MisterDave :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,416 Posts
<takes a bow>..... :rolleyes: Really it's just that no one else is showing anything on the scale of GM efforts.

I think talking Waymo (which they did) would be more appropriate. Too bad they don't have a manufacturing partner. You'd think that would be a priority. I guess they're one of those seen as poised for a buyout. I don't think Tesla has the cash for this. Ford or FCA maybe, but each lags GM in every tech area. It's not like they have an EV platform to apply it to.

Maybe a "Who will buy Waymo" story would get clicks. GM might, but possibly only to bury it. With no real competition, I don't know why they'd waste the capital.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,156 Posts
It's still reasonably early, and so early you can imagine a player going from worst to first. However, I suspect that would be someone like Toyota which seems to be in stealth mode.

Tesla underestimate the challenge of building a system like Mobileye's. That's why the current system, which is Tesla's, isn't as capable as the original, which was Mobileye's. Thinking you can achieve Level 5 autonomy with only cameras also seems to be wrong.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
20,646 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Apple has $100 billion it can spend. Maybe it buys Tesla, it's been thought of before. Can merging two last place finishers be a winning hand?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,340 Posts
It's funny how GM and the companies they've bought and partnered with are being touted as "the best!" while Tesla with their in-house solution doesn't give a crap, and isn't showing their hand when it comes to self-driving cars.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,410 Posts

·
Administrator
Joined
·
20,646 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
It's funny how GM and the companies they've bought and partnered with are being touted as "the best!" while Tesla with their in-house solution doesn't give a crap, and isn't showing their hand when it comes to self-driving cars.
Musk is not one to be shy on making grand announcements. With an eye on raising more cash, you'd think if Tesla had fleets of self driving cars running around cities getting ready for prime time release he'd be making audacious announcements about them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,416 Posts
Musk is not one to be shy on making grand announcements. With an eye on raising more cash, you'd think if Tesla had fleets of self driving cars running around cities getting ready for prime time release he'd be making audacious announcements about them.
Well...... if we're talking about what's on the road now versus what's in our imagination. I like to be creative now and then (it's sort of a skill actually) but this dream is as grayed out as the formatting buttons above the text box I'm typing into (time sensitive levity there). ;)
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
20,646 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Well...... if we're talking about what's on the road now versus what's in our imagination. I like to be creative now and then (it's sort of a skill actually) but this dream is as grayed out as the formatting buttons above the text box I'm typing into (time sensitive levity there). ;)
Greyed out, sure, but it's a sunny day.

I just find it hard to believe Tesla has something more going on with AV than they have shown. Again, Musk is not known to be shy about announcing things far in advance of delivery (kind of like BMW's "Model 3" killer announcement in today's home page).

I'm fairly certain that if Tesla had world beating AV tech based on using a few camera's, Musk would be milking it for all the investment dollars he could squeeze out of it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,405 Posts
It's funny how GM and the companies they've bought and partnered with are being touted as "the best!" while Tesla with their in-house solution doesn't give a crap, and isn't showing their hand when it comes to self-driving cars.
GM:
Hard mapped roads for redundancy is expanding and in use today for retail hands-free cars.
V2V has been installed in retail vehicles for about a year with a 980 foot radius so far.
Cars have a human-monitored central nervous system that is the most advanced in the world going on 13? years which could be used to assist Level 5 cars in stuck in freak situations. OnStar could take control of the car, or call a tow, or send an ambulance.
GM has demonstrated full autonomy in downtown San Francisco, arguably the worst roads in first world. I'd rather drive in Rome, Paris, or London. With no accidents and not hard mapped. Yet.

GM will be first company to demonstrate triple or higher redundancy in the AV navigation and control infrastructure which will enable retail buyers to use them safely:

> AV car sensors
> V2V assist
> Hard Map assist
> OnStar assist
> ???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
425 Posts
GM Leads, Tesla & Apple Trail Deeply In Navigant Research Self-Driving Report

GM Leads, Tesla & Apple Trail Deeply In Navigant Research Self-Driving Report
By Steve Hanley on Jan 20, 2018 08:25 am

GM is ahead of everyone else in autonomous driving per above report that i found on CleanTechnica. Cannot seem to add link to take you to the article. Perhaps someone else can add the link

This article along with GM's announcement of plans to build a Bolt in 2019 without steering wheel and pedals has brought out more negative comments many people (the Tesla fanboys???) than acknowledgement of realizing a significant milestone or hope for success,

I quote one comment which says it all imho:
Lllurker • a day ago
"By the way I can’t think of anything that could possibly convert more skeptics into believers than GM actually producing a car with no steering wheel."

Wow!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,489 Posts
Here's the link:

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/01/2...deeply-navigant-research-self-driving-report/

Yeah - as usual Tesla seems to have managed to implant a pretty strong message in people's heads about self driving, but I'm not convinced that the hardware in their cars is really going to be up to the task. That could hurt them in a few years as people realize how much better other manufacturers are doing.

Mind you, Tesla's big advantage is that they can at least give you some upgraded capability. Nobody else seems to have clued into what a huge marketing advantage that kind of after-market support is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,405 Posts
I think those who were paying attention realized the limits of Tesla's tech when the car hit the truck without slowing down. The reports of cars hitting trucks stopped at lights didn't get much press, but were an early warning.

The painfully obvious California AV Testing and Video 16 months ago, staff replacements, vendor replacements, and no further progress reports except AP2.5 has shown that Tesla isn't pumping the resources into AV that are needed.

Cadillac demonstrated 'AP1.00' equivalency in 2012. But can you imagine what would have happened to GM if they put it in play and it hit a truck? GM lost billions on a gas tank issue that was found to be no more dangerous than any other brand. And again with an ignition key issue that all cars have had since key ignitions were born.

GM can't do Kamikaze engineering. The car must return to base or there is no base to return to.

So far Tesla has not fallen under the same requirement, but they will.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,650 Posts
Just posted this in another thread:
https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-autopilot-why-crash-radar/

It's not a surprise to me that GM is ahead of Tesla in AV. No different than in EVs either -- Money talks. GM has the ability to invest like almost no one else.

Someone mentioned Toyota as well. They also have the capital, and they likely have more incentive than anyone to create AVs. Think about the demographics of their current customer base. Most Toyotas are driven by people who just as soon not drive at all. AVs are the next logical step for 90% of Toyota customers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,409 Posts
When it comes down to how much capital you have to spend (and Tesla has less of it than GM, making all those profits selling ICE trucks and SUVs) and you decide to spend some of it on a charging infrastructure you have less to spend on autonomy. GM spends zero on charging infrastructure; that is someone elses problem (they are probably happy it was VW that got caught). I for one, care more about charging that I do about autonomy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,410 Posts
One thing people need to remember AV is NOT synonymous with EV...:)

An AV ICE is still a possibility...:)
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top