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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
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Synopsis
Jim Hall, 2953 Analytics, Csaba Csere, Freelance Auto Journalist. Topic: Electric Vehicles.

They arrived with such fanfare a couple years back, that you’d have thought we’d all be driving electrics by now but that’s not the case. In fact, even today some manufacturers are reticent to even offer an electric option. But that hasn’t stopped everyone from the biggest OEMs to the single car startups from designing and building all-electric cars. On Autoline This Week John McElroy and his panel look at the world of electric cars, if there’s a want, a need or a business case to be made for their existence. Joining John in studio is Csaba Csere, the former Editor-in-Chief of Car & Driver magazine and Jim Hall of 2953 Analytics.

http://www.autoline.tv/show/1647

Well worth the 27 minute viewing time! The panel did 'screw up' the Volt and the 'Hold' mode, saying it was only available on the Ampera.
 

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The media's point of view that if the PEV industry (barely two years old) isn't selling like hot cakes, it's a failure. A whole new way of doing things will take time.
 

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If these old guys were reporting on the sale of the first gasoline automobiles a hundred years ago (when you had to travel to special sites just to buy gas), they would probably say the same things, and conclude "Keep your horses".

Technologies take time to change the public. The first electronic computers existed in the 1950 to 1970's, and a few engineers managed to cobble up a small system with spare parts for personal use (I knew someone who built a Digital Equipment Company PDP-8 in 1979 in his home), until 1975 when the first small computers based on the MITS Altair 8800 and the Intel 8080 processor were sold for a few thousands of dollars. Then IBM and others (Apple, Commodore, and Radio Shack) began mass production in the early 1980's and the home computer market was established. Now I can buy a cheap tablet for $99!

Same for home video recorders, digital cameras, wireless communications, and digital video cameras. Technology begins expensive until mass production takes over, then everyone can buy one. We are at the beginning of mass production of electric vehicles, with the Volt and the Leaf as the pioneers. Soon every automobile manufacturer will build and sell EVs, then the home EV market will grow. I give it at leats two more years. By 2015 there will be plenty of low cost EVs and anyone can buy one easily.
 

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LOL.

"Their lizard brain"

First off moron its not a $45k car. And yes I will save more than $2000 this year on gas and each year of my lease from what I was spending on gas with my previous car. And moron when you factor in the fact that my previous car was going on 5 years old and the maintenance costs going forward on a car out of warranty its a no brainer.

I now drive a new car, fully warrantied which uses little gas, and drives absolutely awesome. Not to mention excellent GM/dealer support. I don't know about some of you but I never got treated so well at a service visit with any other new car I've owned. Sorry but you simply cannot but a $$$ on that.
 

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If these old guys were reporting on the sale of the first gasoline automobiles a hundred years ago (when you had to travel to special sites just to buy gas), they would probably say the same things, and conclude "Keep your horses".

Technologies take time to change the public. The first electronic computers existed in the 1950 to 1970's, and a few engineers managed to cobble up a small system with spare parts for personal use (I knew someone who built a Digital Equipment Company PDP-8 in 1979 in his home), until 1975 when the first small computers based on the MITS Altair 8800 and the Intel 8080 processor were sold for a few thousands of dollars. Then IBM and others (Apple, Commodore, and Radio Shack) began mass production in the early 1980's and the home computer market was established. Now I can buy a cheap tablet for $99!

Same for home video recorders, digital cameras, wireless communications, and digital video cameras. Technology begins expensive until mass production takes over, then everyone can buy one. We are at the beginning of mass production of electric vehicles, with the Volt and the Leaf as the pioneers. Soon every automobile manufacturer will build and sell EVs, then the home EV market will grow. I give it at leats two more years. By 2015 there will be plenty of low cost EVs and anyone can buy one easily.
I'm not so sure about the 2015 date, but Raymond is right. The evolution has begun and frankly I'm seeing a trend where automakers are suddenly trying to catch-up. It's actually kind of weird. The Prius has been around forever now and has been very successful and yet few companies were in a rush to copy it. Now, however, it seems like there automakers are scrambling to get hybrid versions of just about everything out there (admittedly the aggressive government standards for economy are driving this as well) and this seems to be naturally spilling over to the next logical steps: plug in hybrids and pure BEVs. The plug-in hybrids and BEVs (as we all know) take fuel economy to a whole new level and that is what drew most (not all) of us to the table initially...and now that we've experienced the other benefits of electric (the smoothness is beyond compelling for me) I think most of us are convinced it is the future. I honestly think that once enough EVs are out there to expose the average person to one - and remove the "fear" and show them how well they work as "real" cars - we will see a tipping point and acceleration in adoption. With Obama's re-election (settle down, not making this political, I'm a Republican) we will likely continue to see tax credits and no interruption to the adoption curve. I agree that low cost EVs will spike adoption (as would a luxury sedan and CUV in their respective segments).
 

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When you look at car sales per month in China, the market penetration of (well I'm going to lump them all together) electrics is barely a whimper. These writers are likely looking at the overall picture. I think we're lucky that GM even bothers with the Volt at all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I just finished watching this show, again, on tv and have concluded that McElroy et al did a poor job with this topic. The show was full of errors, inaccuracies and irrelevant opinions. The conclusion was that electric cars do not make economic sense. Explain to me how buying an Audi A8 makes economic sense? How does paying extra for leather seating make economic sense. According to these chuckle-heads, we all should be driving economically sensible cars such as the Cruise or whatever since we're now going to have plenty of cheap gasoline and so forth. These media 'experts' are certainly NOT when it comes to electric propulsion topics.
 

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Good post, thanks. Clearly the Tesla is doing very well on its merits as a car. Also thought their observations on the Volt were accurate, GM has a marketing problem, nothing wrong with the car/concept.
 
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