[Jean-Charles_Jacquemin2]

BillR : I believe this vehicle is in response to the Ampera.Opel is touting the Ampera as the only car a family will need, as it can scoot around electrically in urban situations, yet still drive 600 km from Germany to Geneva (as recently demonstrated on its drive to the Geneva Auto Show).I think this is key, because many families in Europe cannot afford to be multi-car households. (...)  
Hi Bill,

I think you have a misrepresentation of European families, in my street alone (I live in a small village of the Namur Province second to the poorest Province of Belgium, that means the average household in my street earns about 3/4 of the average income of the median European household).

When I do a little statistical study of my close neighbors (500m in both directions of the street and exclude "families" with only one adult), I come around 2.3 car per family with children and 2.1 cars for families which are couples without children (In fact three houses with couples without children have each tree cars for two people and one has four cars !!!).

In Belgium in general we have more than 5 millions of personal cars (5,086,756 on 12/31/2008) for 3,9 millions of households, and the situations i similar in numerous EU countries.

Best regards, I hope that helps.

JC NPNS

 

[jeffhre]

Albert Sanders : Since, after the initial 31 miles on 100% battery power, the 15 kW of power from the generator is only about 1/3 of 45 kW, my guess is that the steady speed will be limited to about
20 MPH. This is not acceptable, except in an emergency. This should not be called “extended range”. We have a new category here. One that is not acceptable. The Volt is acceptable.
Interesting, could you show your calculations it sounds fascinating.

 

[Zachary_Taylor]

sparks : THIS JUST IN:LUTZ TO RETIRE MAY 1.So yesterday GM announces the Converj is dead, and today Bob Lutz’s retirement is announced.I recall another poster on this site predicted something like this yesterday.On the plus side, I would think the Volt has enough momentum to continue forward regardless.  

Told ya.


LauraM : The Volt is safe. It’s too far along, and has too much media attention for them to cancel the program.


Hope you guys are right.

A lot of steam can be taken out of the Volt program without canceling it. Let's hope that we're all right, and that demand will force GM into the more optimistic of our Volt follow-up expectations, sans Lutz.

It's just too depressing to contemplate anything else.

 

[jeffhre]

TVAF : Europa no cuenta con 380 V, cuenta con 220V. Es necesario un contrato aparte para 380 V. Lo importante además es la sección del conductor hasta la toma, es decir los amperios que llegan y esa sección en Europa suele ser pequeña.
Mira numero 18 - de Jean-Charles

 

[Zachary_Taylor]

At first blush, this sounds like the original "ideal car" idea which brought me to the Volt site, originally: a generator providing the average energy requirement of the car, using a battery to buffer this output to driver demand.

However, Dave G. is correct:
Dave G : 1) more charging and discharging decreases battery life.

I am still looking forward to the improved battery which will allow this dream to be real. I have my doubts that Audi's batteries will take the strain for long (and maybe they don't care without a 100K mile govt mandate).

However, I disagree with Dave G on this:
Dave G : 2) it lowers efficiency through additional electrical->chemical->electrical conversion.

The energy savings of a small, light, single-speed engine which will directly power the wheels except for those times when more power is needed ought to offset a lot of electrical -> chemical (and vice versa) inefficiencies. Also, advanced batteries may have higher power densities allowing more rapid (and efficient) charging and discharging. Again, someday. I doubt very much that Audi has come even close to achieving this.

It is far more likely that this single-speed genset is motivated by only one thing; Wankel dependability issues. How much of the rotor seal and tip wear (and oil use) problems came from gunning earlier Wankel cars in traffic? It might be much easier to deal with at a fixed rpm. Audi is going primarily for the weight savings in an occasional-use backup/emergency power supply, as others have said.

 

[Peacmakr]

I really doubt that a 15 kW generator is enough to power this vehicle safely when the battery runs out. You've got basically a 20 hp motor powering a 2500 lb vehicle which doesn't look all that aerodynamic. Might be enough to chug around town but heaven help you if you have to accelerate out of a problem.

 

[jeffhre]

Zachary Taylor : It is far more likely that this single-speed genset is motivated by only one thing; Wankel dependability issues. How much of the rotor seal and tip wear (and oil use) problems came from gunning earlier Wankel cars in traffic? It might be much easier to deal with at a fixed rpm. Audi is going primarily for the weight savings.

Once engineers moved from steel tip design to ceramics in building rotary engine rotors, I believe this issue was relegated to the background. I don't know what materials are used today though. Rotary engines produced now continue to be less efficient than a reciprocating otto cycle in the few versions that have been on the roads.

Since every mechanical engineer in the auto industry has had an impact on reciprocating engine design in ways large and small for the last 100 years it's hard to compare ultimate states. Whether from working on big development teams down to level of water cooler conversations, the otto cycle engine has had a tremendous amount of effort at refinement. The rotary is in it's infancy, and even at that, only a few relatively small teams have worked on it's progress.

 

[CaptJackSparrow7]

Dave G : 1) more charging and discharging decreases battery life.


True, but we don't know what the warranty is for the batt pack nor do we know the drain cycle count for it's chem. Is it 3000 or 5000 cycle to 70% DOD?
If it were my commuter, it would get charge only once per day, which means at 3000 cycles it would take 8.21 years. I bet the warranty is only for 3-4 years, maybe 5 at best.....lol

 

[jeffhre]

Zachary Taylor : A lot of steam can be taken out of the Volt program without canceling it.

That's so very true isn't it!!!!!!!!

 

[Zachary_Taylor]

Stas Peterson : it is not a ‘Charge Sustaining ‘ mode of operation.

What it is instead is a is a “Slower Charge Depleting’ mode of operation.

... this sounds like another idea I* brought out here; sooner or later, I said, someone is going to come out with what I called an AREV (Augmented Rrange Electric Vehicle).

I also said it would need a larger, not smaller AER, since you would expect to have some of the battery left at the time you switched on the engine; I usually imagined 60 miles. You would be all electric for 30 of those, then the engine's output would augment what was left over, perhaps indefinitely with reasonable care. There could be no drag racing in augmented-range mode -- at least not for very long!

It's interesting to see other makers already starting to play with and strain the limits of the EREV paradigm; there is much more opportunity here than GM is exploring.

* I used to post here under the name "Jackson," until Lyle's spam-avoidance software got allergic to it.

 

[jeffhre]

LauraM : As far as Lutz, I’m just glad that he didn’t retire during the bankruptcy proceedings. That would been have a pr and logistical nightmare that GM didn’t need.

Didn't he do that and decide to stay for a while anyway?

 

[Harrier]

Less power
less range
less speed
...less appeal

Honestly, it is a nice car but you can't directly compare it to the Volt. It is designed for a different demographic (city folk) so it can do a lot of these things like have less of an ICE or a smaller tank and battery since they assume that your driving will be mostly city miles.

I think it looks nice but as I don't live in the city I will be driving my Volt thank you very much.

Harrier1970

Carcus1 : Will the e-tron be less than the Volt?1.Less weight (1300 lbs lighter)
2.Less expensive
3.Less complicated
4.Less maintenance
5.Less NVH
6.Less emmissions
7.Less fuel consumption
8.Less electron consumption  

 

[Laura9]

jeffhre : Didn’t he do that and decide to stay for a while anyway?

Yes. He did. Which was beyond irresponsible on his part, IMHO. And I'm glad he changed his mind. Now is a much better time for him to go.

 

[CaptJackSparrow7]

LauraM : Yes. He did. Which was beyond irresponsible on his part, IMHO. And I’m glad he changed his mind. Now is a much better time for him to go.

But then he'll be hired back as a "Consultant" like Fritz for $3,000.00/hr.


http://wot.motortrend.com/6624164/industry-news/hes-baaack-fritz-henderson-hired-as-gm-consultant-gets-3000-an-hour/index.html

 

[Zachary_Taylor]

So, does this mean that the Ampera will recharge at 380 volts (and how long will that take)?

It's interesting to note from the source article that, unlike the last several EV programs to be announced, Audi agrees with GM on the importance of a thermal management system. This is more indication, perhaps, of the risks being taken by Nissan with it's LEAF.

 

[DonC]

LRGVProVolt : DonC, I knew that it doesn’t kick in the ICE. My comment is that the Volt already has a means of increasing power to pass by activating the sport mode. The Volt manages that problem far better than kicking on the ICE to pass. The battery pack was designed with this feature in mind.
The Volt can produce more power because it has a larger battery pack and a larger engine. The Audi is power limited so it has to have a strategy for ensuring that supplemental battery power is available when the power demands are greater than what the gen-set can produce.

The "Leaf Mode" on the Volt isn't designed to address this issue, it's designed to increase EV range.

Seem like these are different approaches to different problems not different approaches to the same problem.

 

[jeffhre]

LauraM : Yes. He did. Which was beyond irresponsible on his part, IMHO. And I’m glad he changed his mind. Now is a much better time for him to go.

I'm calling dibs right now. When I turn 75 I get to walk away whenever I want. No hard feelings, I was lending a hand but I won't own the issues. Even if the world is going to hell in a hand basket... and it's my fault. Three waves means goodbye forever, let the youngsters have some fun.

 

[CaptJackSparrow7]

Zachary Taylor : So, does this mean that the Ampera will recharge at 380 volts (and how long will that take)?

OK, i'm not ashamed to show my ignorance here but where do you get 380VAC? (OK, I know it says it in the article but i've never seen or heard of a 380VAC outlet)
Last I heard 220/240VAC was the norm for charging using the SAE J1772-2009.

/confused now......

 

[jeffhre]

MuddyRoverRob : Because a Diesel runs with very high compression ratio’s it must be stronger and therefore heavier. The greater the weight the less the AER, it’s really pretty basic. In my case I’d be OK with the weight penalty of the diesel because I would be using the extender more than most I’d bet
I expect HCCI and common rail technology (or some other injection / combustion innovations) to take advantage of this in the near future.

 

[MichaelH]

CaptJackSparrow :
OK, i’m not ashamed to show my ignorance here but where do you get 380VAC?(OK, I know it says it in the article but i’ve never seen or heard of a 380VAC outlet)
Last I heard 220/240VAC was the norm for charging using the SAE J1772-2009./confused now……  
See comments 15 and 18.