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Unlike the Ioniq, the Kona battery pack is liquid cooled because the battery is more compact. Let the games begin.
 

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Unlike the Ioniq, the Kona battery pack is liquid cooled because the battery is more compact. Let the games begin.
This is a must for anyone concerned about battery longevity. The Leaf is an engineering fail in comparison.

Front charging location a minus for me.

Also, only CARB state availability = compliance car. :-(
 

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This is a must for anyone concerned about battery longevity. The Leaf is an engineering fail in comparison.

Front charging location a minus for me.

Also, only CARB state availability = compliance car. :-(
With the Leaf, one strategy would be to lease the vehicle for no more than 36 months. This would mostly skip the problem of battery degradation during the term of the lease.
 

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Very interesting, his average is 5.1 mile per KwH which is amazing. Plus apparently its price point will be half the Jaguar meaning its going to rock the Bolt, Leaf, and even the TM3. What matters is availability which in North America may be CARB states for awhile.
Based on common markets, it's going to be more expensive than the Bolt EV. As far as I know, only the 64 kWh version will be sold in the United States, and based on the price in Korea (compared to the Bolt EV), it will probably start at around $39,000 in the United States. Now, that might include DCFC standard, so that would make its effective price only maybe $1,000 or so more than the Bolt EV.

I wouldn't put too much stock in the 5.1 mi/kWh that Jonny Smith was seeing. We don't know the exact conditions. For reference, even including some freeway driving, I commonly see 4.5 to 5 mi/kWh in my Bolt EV, but sustained freeway speeds drops that efficiency significantly. Bjorn Nyland, when testing the Kona Electric at 75 mph got something around 3.3 mi/kWh, if I'm remembering that correctly.

As for availability, that could definitely be an issue, at least for the first year. I came across an interesting story that could mean Hyundai will eventually have access to enough batteries to supply the U.S. market with about 150,000 Kona Electric per year (if that is what they want to do). More than likely, they would share battery production capacity with Kia and others.

 

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That top of the line Kona has a pretty impressive list of features and the range is impressive. GM could easily build something like this and it would sell and keep their plants and people working.
Very nicely done Kona!
 

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I wouldn't put too much stock in the 5.1 mi/kWh that Jonny Smith was seeing. We don't know the exact conditions. For reference, even including some freeway driving, I commonly see 4.5 to 5 mi/kWh in my Bolt EV, but sustained freeway speeds drops that efficiency significantly. Bjorn Nyland, when testing the Kona Electric at 75 mph got something around 3.3 mi/kWh, if I'm remembering that correctly.
It didn't say exactly what kind of driving they did except that they were testing the Ioniq, iPace and the Kona on a 1,000 mile run so it would be mostly highway driving. The other thing is they were on a train so they were taking the train through the tunnel so the run was being made in continental Europe. Europe has a lot of high speed highways so to get that mileage in a short amount of time I would expect a lot of freeway driving.
 

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It didn't say exactly what kind of driving they did except that they were testing the Ioniq, iPace and the Kona on a 1,000 mile run so it would be mostly highway driving. The other thing is they were on a train so they were taking the train through the tunnel so the run was being made in continental Europe. Europe has a lot of high speed highways so to get that mileage in a short amount of time I would expect a lot of freeway driving.
I saw at least one or two changes of clothes, so this was probably over the course of a couple of days. I'm just saying that we don't know. Maybe if they shared the efficiencies the other vehicles we were seeing, it would be more apparent. Based on what I've seen from Kona Electric testing, its efficiency is within 5-10% of the Bolt EV and LEAF, so I wouldn't expect to see 5 mi/kWh in regular driving unless you have mild climate and driving.
 

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I saw at least one or two changes of clothes, so this was probably over the course of a couple of days. I'm just saying that we don't know. Maybe if they shared the efficiencies the other vehicles we were seeing, it would be more apparent. Based on what I've seen from Kona Electric testing, its efficiency is within 5-10% of the Bolt EV and LEAF, so I wouldn't expect to see 5 mi/kWh in regular driving unless you have mild climate and driving.
They did mention the relatively good weather once near the beginning. Judging from there clothes and fauna I would say fall before the weather turns. Think northern half of the States rather than southern, but as you say it's all circumstantial clues and still impressive. It is the latest battery technology, just barely being out but not generational.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
If anything it might force GM to do a refresh sooner. Still the interior looked nice and had features my TM3 could use, namely heated steering wheel and cooled seats. I to can get more than 5 mi/kwh with local driving and limited highway. The key for me will be, what is the Kona doing at 70? I was 219/220 wh/mi but like any other EV, throw in heavy rain and colder temperatures and it can fall
 

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With the Leaf, one strategy would be to lease the vehicle for no more than 36 months. This would mostly skip the problem of battery degradation during the term of the lease.

Sure, don't buy an EV with a poorly engineered battery thermal management system. But then why reward poor engineering with a lease?
 

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Sure, don't buy an EV with a poorly engineered battery thermal management system. But then why reward poor engineering with a lease?
If I had to replace my 2017 Volt, e.g. if my Volt was totaled in an accident, I would need a replacement vehicle right away. If GM adds ACC to the Bolt I might go with a Bolt as a replacement for my Volt. Otherwise the available EV and PHEV pickings are pretty slim; Leaf, Prius Prime, Clarity (too large for my needs), Kona (we will probably never see one outside of a CARB state) and Model 3. What I am willing to wait for is a Model Y (the MY will probably not be available on the east cost (Maryland) until mid-2020 at the earliest.) So I need to plan to keep driving my 2017 Volt for perhaps 2 more years.

Ok, why should I reward bone-headed marketing decisions, buy an EV with uncomfortable seats, Fisher Price grade plastic interior and no ACC when today you can get ACC on a &%$# Corolla.

Instead I can lease a Leaf to carry me through the coming dry spell (2019 - 2020) of attractive new EV offerings. I can get ACC and a pure EV driving experience; any battery degradation is someone else's problem. The Leaf's 150 mile range is more than adequate for my needs (I never drive more than ~75 miles a day, typically less than 20 miles a day.)
 

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These new Korean EV's can be had with all of the latest safety and convenience features and I am hearing that the quality and performance is pretty good. I hope GM is paying attention.
 

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If anything it might force GM to do a refresh sooner.
I think that was scheduled anyway. GM has already been several years ahead of everyone with the Bolt EV, so by the time others finally catch up (Tesla should be releasing the Model 3 SR soon along with Hyundai's Kona Electric), it should be time for a refresh. Probably MY 2020.

Still the interior looked nice and had features my TM3 could use, namely heated steering wheel and cooled seats. I to can get more than 5 mi/kwh with local driving and limited highway. The key for me will be, what is the Kona doing at 70? I was 219/220 wh/mi but like any other EV, throw in heavy rain and colder temperatures and it can fall
Hmm, my Bolt EV LT has a heated steering wheel. I'm surprised that's not an option on the Model 3, especially with Premium Upgrades. Regardless, neither the Bolt EV or Kona Electric are going to be as efficient as the Model 3 after about 60 to 65 mph, so if that's your expectation, you might want to wait for the updated Ioniq Electric, which is about the same efficiency as the Model 3.

In mixed driving under 60 mph, my Bolt EV and a Model P3D (with aero wheels and MXM4) were within about 10 Wh/mi. When we kicked it up to 70 to 75 mph, the Model 3 didn't lose much efficiency, so the difference increased to about 30 Wh/mi.

Fisher Price grade plastic interior
Last I checked, even three-year-olds couldn't wreck Fisher Price toys. And my interior is holding up fine after nearly 80,000 miles.
 

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5.1miles/kWh is very impressive for highway driving. Would like to see more testing done, but in my Volt, I only get 5.1 miles/kWh, 140+MPGe, if I'm doing less than 50mph on backcountry roads.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Now while I would still want a heated steering wheel option in my TM3 I have not found it needed for one simple reason, the HVAC systems flexibility gives in an unobstructed path over the steering wheel and I have found warm air that was very satisfying solution. Of course with all two hundred mile plus range EVs you don't have to bundle up because of range fears
 

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The Niro EV is on the top of my list for replacing my Volt. With 2 kids in car seats, and 2 dogs, the Volt simply doesn't have the room to move everyone. Even the Bolt disappoints, because there is less than a foot behind the rear seats.

As for availability, I saw a statement from Hyundai's North America top executive that the Kona EV will be available for odder from any dealer in the US. California will get them before the end of the year, then they will be rolled out to the rest of the CARB states in early 2019. Other states will have the ability to order then after that, but the issue will be service, as with the Volt, they will need special training and tools.

Being in NH, we aren't a CARB state, but we're surrounded by them, so I should be able to find one next year.

Price is still a question mark though. Supposedly it will be competitive with the Bolt, but GM is on track to hit it's tax credit sales limit before the end of the year, so that will give Hyundai a significant leg up on price.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Price is still a question mark though. Supposedly it will be competitive with the Bolt, but GM is on track to hit it's tax credit sales limit before the end of the year, so that will give Hyundai a significant leg up on price.
I am curious if GM will make any adjustment or lean more on leases to cover the loss of the full credit. Granted they are only dropping down to $3750 so that may not be an issue for many buyers.
 
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