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Discussion Starter #1
Yes I know this has been brought up already and discussed but I have yet to see anything that states the operation of one that involves the idea that I have.

We all use alternators every single day in our vehicles and they are belt driven. But if we used the same sort of idea in a battery powered vehicle it would serve the same purpose it does now, recharges the batteries and provides power to the electrical systems in the vehicle. The belt system would be operated by the movement of the axle in the vehicle. Thus eliminating any need for a combustion engine of any sort.

If this has been stated already, I have not found it and apologize for repeating it. If it has NOT been stated, I feel this is a simple solution to a complex problem.


Jeremy
 

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Energy needed to turn the alternator with the belt will be about the same than the output energy of the alternator. So an ICE is necessary to recharge batteries.
 

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In simple terms, an alternator is another form of electric motor. It converts the mechanical energy from the drive shaft into electrical energy to run the electronics in your car. It does not do so by recapturing any energy, as you are supposing. The energy would not be lost by the vehicle if there were no alternator, it would be used by the tires and increase your gas mileage slightly.

So, in theory, it sounds simple, but your theory contains a false assumption about the way the alternator works.

The volt will not have a traditional alternator, from my understanding as to what Lyle has posted in the past. Unlike the Toyota and Honda hybrids which basically have two electrical circuits, one that drives the IMA in the Honda, one that drives the Electric Motor in the Toyota and the traditional electrical circuit for your accessories which run off the 12 volt battery and alternator. The Volt will not have, from my understanding and someone point me to any corrections they find, the 12 volt circuit. Everything will run off the main battery and the electric motor.

So in essence, if you think about it, the Volt has an alternator, in the electric motor. The "alternator" effect that you are requesting kicks in when it runs backwards during regenerative breaking. However, this process is not efficient enough to recapture enough energy where we do not need another power supply like the ICE.
 

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2nd Law of Thermodynamics. You can't create more energy then you're expending. The force needed to turn that alternator takes efficiency from the engine.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
It is not impossible. You guys make is sound like we can't come up with technology to make it work. I understand physics and the laws of Thermodynamics but you can't tell me that it won't work. Regardless of the laws of physics. According the laws of physics, a bumblebee should not be able to fly but they do.

With rotation of the axel, you could generate enough power to recharge the system and to provide power to internal systems. However, you cannot use a standard alternator that is currently in use by automobiles. This is an idea that is being discussed at great length by engineering students in the University I attend.
 

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The bumblebee flies because it is physically possible. A few physicists crunched their numbers wrong is all that happened with that myth.

No matter how you work it, adding alternators doesn't increase the efficiency a notable amount as it can not earn more energy than the motor is expending. I know..I kow... I thought the same thing when I was in the 5th grade and it embarassed me in retrospect trying to make a science fair project proving it could. But all you're doing is dragging out the battery life by a percentage point or two or at worst wasting more energy. It'd be better to just make a more efficient motor.
 

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Same thing, different name.

But if we used the same sort of idea in a battery powered vehicle it would serve the same purpose it does now, recharges the batteries and provides power to the electrical systems in the vehicle. The belt system would be operated by the movement of the axle in the vehicle. Thus eliminating any need for a combustion engine of any sort.
The Volt will have just such a system, its called regenerative braking.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
The Volt will have just such a system, its called regenerative braking.
I understand that. But why is there still a need to have a combustion engine? There isn't! Everything that is needed to be used for power exists today. No matter how much we go into the "alternative" areas, it always comes back to needing some sort of combustion engine that requires petroleum or something along those lines.
 

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I understand that. But why is there still a need to have a combustion engine? There isn't! Everything that is needed to be used for power exists today. No matter how much we go into the "alternative" areas, it always comes back to needing some sort of combustion engine that requires petroleum or something along those lines.
Because we haven't found a way to break the LAWS of physics.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Because we haven't found a way to break the LAWS of physics.
Physics has nothing to do with the planet still relying on combustion engines in some form or another. Can argue that till the cows come home.

Look, I am not trying to argue with you guys. I am simply stating that we have relied on combustion engines for more than 100 years and we can get away from them.
 

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But why is there still a need to have a combustion engine? There isn't!
There have been some suggestions by members here on gm-volt.com for an all electric version of the Volt.
And certainly there have been pure BEV's such as the EV1.

So in effect you're right about that. If you drive less than 40 miles a day, your Volt won't really need an ICE.
If you plan on driving it on a cross country trip, thats a different story.
The Volt's ICE makes the vehicle like all other vehicles on the road, you fill it with gas and you keep going.
In a way the ICE makes the Volt more appealing to the consumer.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
And there are other ways to regenerate the power in an electric vehicle other than using an ICE. One such idea is being designed by a few engineers that I personally know and I feel strongly that it will work.

But I will agree that the Volt is a HUGE step in the right direction. (Not sure if I made that clear in my ramblings or not.) This is one vehicle I look forward to seeing on the roadways of this great country.
 

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Look, I am not trying to argue with you guys. I am simply stating that we have relied on combustion engines for more than 100 years and we can get away from them.
In time, I do think we will crawl away from the combustion engines. When battery and solar improve. 100 years on combustion engines should be blame on cheap energy call oil. Now people start to think different and your one of them that start to think different.
 

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In time, I do think we will crawl away from the combustion engines. When battery and solar improve.
Well, the battery tech is already here.
Theres a reason why Chevron captured the nickel metal hydride patents and initiated the COBASYS lawsuit.
To prevent them from being used in pure battery electric vehicles (BEV's)
A sure sign that the technology was viable: Chevron captured it & crushed it.
 

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That may be true, But will that alone will change of use in the combustion engines. I don't think so. There is still a long way to improve the battery and solar technology. Heck there may be other technology that I have not foresee that may replace combustion engines.
 

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Conservation of Energy

I can hardly believe what I am reading.

Add an alternator to the axle of the electric car so that the forward momentum can be harnessed and energy can be stored in a battery. What a concept!

Let's simplify the whole mechanism and utilize the propulsion motor and drive electronics to do the same thing. One motor/alternator combined with the wheels to propel the vehicle up a hill and the same motor/alternator to recover the momentum and gravitational potential energy on the downhill side. GM has it right.

The student is clueless.

Go Volt!
 

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Next this thread will be talking about putting wind turbines on the hood to recharge the battery... again.:rolleyes: There is no free lunch. Yes you can put an alternator on to the motor and put some power back in the battery but the amount of energy it takes to turn the alternator will be greater than the amount of energy it produces. So it would operate at a loss. No benefit and in fact reduce the range of your battery. If this were not the case, the world's energy problems would be solved, you would be a very rich man and the the laws of physics would be smashed to bits resulting in a black hole to another dimension or something...
 

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The sensei spoke to the student one day after the younger expressed what in truth was a weak idea...

"I will discuss any topic with you, but I ask one only thing."

"And what is that, Master?", the young man asked with sincerity.

"Do not walk through my mind with dirty feet."

What university is the student attending? Is it a business school or one for engineers?

Engineer_101
 
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