Last week Ford and Toyota announced a partnership that could lead to hybridized F-Series pickups later this decade, but another alliance made last week could see extended-range F-Series conversions using A123 batteries as soon as next year.

In this case, the deal is less a partnership of convenience, and more one of necessity between aftermarket start-up ALTe and A123 Systems which will supply batteries for range-extended electric vehicle (REEV) light-duty truck upgrades (A.K.A. REEP – "P" for "powertrain").

When we last reported on ALTe, it was looking at testing its fleet application F-150-based mules, and had not disclosed a few of its key suppliers. For the time being, it was using a Ford four-cylinder, and a top-drawer battery maker was hinted at.

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ALTe F-150-based test mule. One of many potential permutations.

As of Thursday last week, it was official. The top-drawer battery maker is a reality, as A123 and ALTe have signed a long-term contract for 21.6 kwh – and possibly other – battery packs.

“We believe that ALTe’s innovative powertrain systems will enable organizations to cost-effectively hybridize their fleets of light trucks to realize the significant economic, environmental and operational benefits of electrification,” said Jason Forcier, vice president of A123’s Automotive Solutions Group. “We consider our Nanophosphate lithium ion battery packs to be optimal for this application, and look forward to a long-term relationship with ALTe helping its customers realize the fuel economy improvements and total cost of ownership advantages that electrification offers over trucks with conventional powertrains.”

ALTe's series hybrid conversions should be a solid package. Its four-cylinder engine supplier has yet to be disclosed, but is thought to be a quality maker, which we will get to momentarily. ALTe is otherwise attempting to build on a strong foundation by starting with one of the most popular trucks sold, and powering it with some of the best batteries made.

“We selected A123 Systems as a primary supplier of lithium ion battery technology because the company’s cost-competitive, high-quality solutions meet the rigorous performance, safety and durability needs of our powertrain platform,” said ALTe CEO John Thomas. “With A123’s battery packs as an integral part of our systems, we will be able to provide a compelling hybrid retrofit solution that can exceed both the power and efficiency demands of the fleet market.”

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Rolling chassis explained.

ALTe says the A123 battery pack can be charged within eight hours from a 120-volt outlet or in about four hours from a 240-volt outlet

As is the case with the test mule, the system is expected to provide an initial 30 miles of driving in all-electric mode, and an estimated additional 270 miles in a charge-sustained mode before the vehicle would need to be either refueled or plugged in.

Cargo and towing capacity are not greatly diminished compared to the removed V8, but they are a little.

Since this is an Achilles heel for a work truck that other major manufacturers have had to try and overcome, we asked a few more questions of ALTe’s CEO, John D. Thomas.

Q&A

GM-Volt: How does this EREV system manage to maintain similar towing capacity? Didn't GM have to go to a two-mode hybrid system and it still reduces capacity?

Thomas: It all comes down to the definition of similar. ALTe has a roughly 1,500 pound reduced towing capacity when compared to the 5.4-liter V8 engine it is replacing. So, we can tow a 6,000 pound trailer up a mountain road with a reasonably full crew cab and payload in the bed at 55 mph up the steepest highway grades in the US. We accomplish this with our hybrid control system management and charge depletion anticipation.

GM-Volt: Originally the talk was of an F-150-based conversion. Will you do Dodge, GM and import conversions as well? How about vans, or larger bodied vehicles? How will prices vary?

Thomas: ALTe will initially be targeting to retrofit Ford branded pickup trucks (F-Series) and full size vans (Econoline), but eventually the company plans to retrofit other brands as well. Longer term, ALTe is involved in discussions with various OEMs regarding the inclusion of an ALTe PHEV powertrain in new vehicle platforms.

Because of the modularity or "plug n play" configuration of the ALTe powertrains, pricing will be very consistent between brands. There will be modest price increases as ALTe powertrains increase in size (e.g., larger engine, more battery, etc.) for larger vehicles (i.e., more content for a 14,000 GVW vehicle compared with an 8,500 lv vehicle).

ALTe will enter the market initially with a common configuration for light trucks/vans up to 14,000 GVW. Eventually, ALTe will offer a larger powertrain for trucks/vans up to 26,000 GVW and also have the ability to offer customers various options that could increase electric miles and/or range and/or other performance specifications.

GM-Volt: Is this system superior?

Thomas: By definition, if we have a higher curb weight and reduced towing capability, we cannot honestly call our system superior. What we have devised is a system that meets the reasonable needs of our customers, not the most extreme 1 percentile cases.

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ALTe CEO John D. Thomas.

GM-Volt: How much less is towing and cargo capacity compared to a comparable V8 truck?

Thomas: Essentially answered in first question, but at full GVWR we have a 1,500 pound reduced towing capacity at full payload

GM-Volt: How different is the EREV system from that in the Volt? How does it differ?

Thomas: On the surface, all series PHEV systems are similar in architecture. The differences arise in the specific details of component and system sizing, duty cycle and utilization optimization, power flows, tolerance for limits, thermal management, accessory drives, etc. Beyond that, we would get into some of our intellectual property related to the hybrid control unit, multimodes, battery management system, predictive algorithms, etc., which we are not going to speak about publicly.

GM-Volt: Is level 2 and 3 charging being encouraged?

Thomas: Yes to both

GM-Volt: What specific four-cylinder engine will be used?

Thomas: We have a commercial deal in place with a major automaker where two different engines are available for our use a 2.0 liter and a 2.5 liter. Other deals with other engine manufacturers are in discussion on an international level.

GM-Volt: Isn't this a rather modest sized battery (21.6 kwh)?

Thomas: It is “right sized" – for the duty cycles our target customers are driving. We scale up or down depending on customers' different desires for a quantity of plug in derived electric miles.

GM-Volt: How many configurations (2X4, 4X4, club cab, etc.) will be offered?

Thomas: The permutations are dazzling when all factors are considered, but at a high level we will start with 2X4 and all cab versions other than the short wheel base and expand a few months later to offer a 4x4 version.

GM-Volt: As we understand it, the REEP conversion retains the functional transmission (which can even be rebuilt)?

Thomas: ALTe’s original business model and technology assumed that the powertrain conversion would retain the original transmission. During discussions with our Customer Advisory Board, we received overwhelming feedback that fleet customers would much rather pay an additional cost for a new or refurbished transmission that would be included as part of ALTe’s overall powertrain warranty. As ALTe’s technology will be extending the life of a vehicle including a new powertrain system, customers determined that the “weakest link” would be the old transmission so they expressed a strong preference for a new/refurbished one.

GM-Volt: Is this not a unique development – using a conventional automatic (or manual?) transmission – in a series hybrid?

Thomas: Yes, ALTe has indeed created a novel approach on how to salvage and utilize a very robust traditional transmission by incorporating a few external features. We are trying to leverage existing technology where possible for cost and time to market reasons. In the future, we envision a more custom designed solution which we have under development.

GM-Volt: Is the retention of the transmission an advantage? If so, how? (Power delivery, speed, economy, all?)

Thomas: The retention of the transmission has very practical advantages: it already packages and bolts to the vehicle, it has a proven gear set to move the vehicle at full load, it minimizes tooling investment and ultimately is affordable for our customers.

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Rolling chassis.

GM-Volt: Are there any intentions to offer this system for automobiles as well?

Thomas: As GM and Fisker know, it is very hard to package all of the elements of two powertrain systems in an automobile without some kind of passenger or cargo volume compromise. We may be offering micro versions of our powertrain in the future for OEMs that will work with us to build the vehicle around the powertrain vs. shoehorning it in an existing platform.

GM-Volt: What will be pricing for the vehicles?

Thomas: The cost of retrofitting a full size pickup to ALTe's REEV powertrain is projected to be under $30,000 and offset quickly by fuel savings in fleet vehicles that typically are driven many more miles annually when compared with an average individual or retail customer. The "payback" can be as short as one year depending primarily on the number of miles driven and the projected cost of gasoline. The price of the ALTe powertrain is projected to decline significantly over the next several years as demand for lithium ion batteries increases and corresponding battery costs decline.

GM-Volt: In doing the REEP conversions, who keeps the old parts (like the V8 engine, etc.)?

Thomas: As part of the transaction with the fleet customer, ALTe will retain possession of old/removed components. We are working with several companies on the disposal process for these parts, nearly all of which we believe will be able to be recycled or sold to repair/salvage shops and dealers.

High hopes

ALTe has also said it wishes to establish itself as an OEM solutions provider for other established automakers, so no doubt it will attempt to hit the ground running.

The company expects to begin accepting purchase orders by the end of 2011 and plans to start installing its electric powertrain systems in summer 2012.

 

What about the ability to function as a job site generator or emergency power backup?

 

This is good news for potential truck owners who wished for an ET (electric truck) but with most of the capacity of the original ICE version. The F-150 is one of the most sold models in America. I hope GM is reading and will follow up with a Voltec powered Silverado.

The battery placement is excellent, with all that weight low and in the center to improve stability, even if the cargo area is loaded up. It also may allow an easier swap in the future.

Now we have another acronym to add to the EV mix: REEP!

Raymond

 

I didn't notice a delivery timeframe, is there one? The implication was nearly immediate, but that would be too good to be true. And Koz is right, the ability to use the ICE as a work site generator is even more compelling than the usual EREV used as a generator in blackout situations. Work generators are used a good bit more often.

 

The Volt takes 10 hours to charge a 16 kwh pack (putting in about 10-11 kwh) at 110v. ALTe says they can charge a battery pack in 8 hours. Doesn't seem possible they can charge the 21.6kwh pack mentioned in the article in the 8 hours ALTe has specified, based on Volt users's experience with outlets.

 

fishhawk ,

Newer EVs, such as Focus, use a charger with double the charge rate of Volt.

 

At $30k plus the price of the host truck, you're in the realm of two-mode. How do the economy numbers compare?
Personally, I'd go OEM rather than retrofit.

 

They have their work cut out competing with the big boys. I wish them success.

I noticed ALTe reverse the terminology "extended range" to range extended". I wonder if "extended range" is copy right protected by GM.

 

I wish these guys success but my first guess would be their most likely road to success is to sell the technology to an established company like Ford or Toyota. Nothing wrong with this, it's just the huge amounts of capital needed makes conversions on a large scale difficult. Plus, as seen from the Prius conversions versus the PIP, an OEM product has significant cost advantages because you don't have a second process and you don't have to toss out the original parts. As Loboc has indicated, an OEM product would also be preferred.

In a related vein, very interesting article about A123 and government investments in battery technology in the NY Times yesterday:http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/28/magazine/does-america-need-manufacturing.html?_r=1&ref=automobiles Lots of interesting food for thought here.

 

fishhawk : Doesn’t seem possible they can charge the 21.6kwh pack mentioned in the article in the 8 hours ALTe has specified
Doesn't seem unrealistic. The Volt can charge at 1.4 kW (120V) or 3.3 kW (240V). The reason for the 3.3 kW limit is concern about about cell life, but most likely the battery would also take 6.6 kW charging. (The Focus EV using the same cells will charge at 6.6 kW). Keeping in mind that the A123 batteries will be more robust than the cells used in the LG Chem pack, 6.6 kW charging would seem a piece of cake.

If you do the math there shouldn't be any problem at all charging a 21.6 kWh pack in 8 hours, assuming you have enough juice.

 

Loboc : fishhawk , Newer EVs, such as Focus, use a charger with double the charge rate of Volt.
That's true, but it still means they have to pull the current from a 110v outlet. If the Volt charge cor takes 15amps, then to charge twice as fast means you are pulling up to 30amps from common outlet. I doubt there are many garages or outdoor outlets that can supply that much current. Peole are reporting problems just providing the current the 110v Voltech charge cord needs.

Seems like only a 240v outlet will work well.

 

OT

Kdawg, others,

please see the last post of yesterdays article. re NO NAV option = NO BIG SCREEN

 

fishhawk : I doubt there are many garages or outdoor outlets

This is for fleet use. I'm sure adequate L2 and L3 capability is part of the decision to go this route.

 

Loboc : Personally, I’d go OEM rather than retrofit.
#6

You and most everybody else IMHO. +1

I believe that all start up, let alone retrofit, car companies are DOA until I see different. "He who ignores history is doomed to repeat it."

 

Loboc : Personally, I’d go OEM rather than retrofit.

Noel Park : I believe that all start up, let alone retrofit, car companies are DOA until I see different.

For fleet use, the business case for modification may make sense near term, but it will always be more expensive than an OEM solution. However, we have already seen how a limited-scale operation can be influential for those OEM manufacturers: Bob Lutz is supposed to have said of the Tesla Roadster, "They can do this, and we can't?" This line of thinking led eventually to the Volt. Hopefully, ALTe will have a similar effect. At the moment though, it appears most likely to yield fruit at Ford. GM take note.

Could GM's recently-inked contract with A123 indicate that they already have taken note?

 

Odyne wins $2.9 million plug-in hybrid utility truck contract:

http://www.jsonline.com/business/128717463.html

Seems like the plug-in hybrid approach is catching on.

 

I don't think they'll survive, but at least these startups serve one function well, pushing the envelope. It it wasn't for Tesla, we wouldn't have the Volt. Now we have someone making an EREV pickup. This will surely effect the future plans of OEM's.

 

George S. Bower ,

i saw that and responded on the other thread.

 

OT: I goofed.

Someone please give Don C a [+1] at #9 (I meant to vote his [-1] away, and clicked the wrong button, @!#$^%&. Sorry, Don).

I suspect that we may see some interesting vote activity today.

EDIT: Thx!

 

It's exciting to read about the electrification of the pickup truck and other truck chassis vehicles. The possibility of an Escalade E-REV gets closer every day.

While conversions are an excellent way to improve the existing fleet of trucks, the manufacturers need to build them. Ford, GM and others could help their CAFE standards by building them on the assembly line.

 

Sorry for hijacking the thread, but I used to come on here quite often and wanted some of your all's thoughts. I live in the Bay area- where people are more likely to buy cars like the prius, Volt, and Leaf. I've been keenly interested in the Volt for years and would love to own one someday. That said... the 40k price has got me waiting until a cheaper version is hopefully available.

That brings me to the point I want to make. Around here I am seeing a LOT of Nissan Leafs. As in they're starting to become frequent enough to the point where they might as well be a Prius. They seem to be doing really well here even though in my opinion the car has got some serious shortcomings mainly in that if you run out of juice- oh well too bad and that its a car that would only be practical within the immediate area you live and not something you could use for long road trips. Even so- they seem to be selling well. On the other hand I have seriously only seen a handful of Volts. Half of those are owned by utility companies. I hardly ever see them on the roads around here and again- if there were anywhere that people would buy these- the bay area is one of the best bets. This is a disappointment. So what gives? Is it the price? Is it that its not all-electric? I can't figure it out. There's certainly no shortage of people with tons of money here.

 

fishhawk : That’s true, but it still means they have to pull the current from a 110v outlet. If the Volt charge cor takes 15amps, then to charge twice as fast means you are pulling up to 30amps from common outlet. I doubt there are many garages or outdoor outlets that can supply that much current. Peole are reporting problems just providing the current the 110v Voltech charge cord needs.


Seems like only a 240v outlet will work well.
The amount of current that flows in a circuit is limited by the cable size (like the size of a pipe for water). You can put a 60 amp circuit for 120 VAC (up to 7 KW), but most homes don't have that type of capacity as built. The home circuits must be modified or the special cabling added on, and it isn't worth the money.

Increasing the voltage (same as increasing the pressure) allows the same power to flow at a lesser current. This is why the Level 2 charger uses 240 VAC, so the battery charges at a higher rate (and takes less time).

If future home were designed to handle 480 VAC, then changing an EV can be done at a much higher rate and take much less time, as long as the charger and batteries can handle that voltage. Then we could charge a Chevy Volt in minutes.

Raymond

 

edvard : Sorry for hijacking the thread, but I used to come on here quite often and wanted some of your all’s thoughts.
There have been fewer Volts made and sold and the Volt is being sold in more places. So for starters you have more Leafs concentrated in CA. By contrast, if you were in MI, where the Volt has been sold but the Leaf hasn't been, you wouldn't have the idea that the Leaf was selling well. Ditto for all the states where the Leaf isn't being sold, and that's virtually all states.

The other thing is that you have to think that the $5000 rebate for the Leaf made it more attractive. I think the Volt is a better car. Definitely worth a premium but $10K is probably stretching it unless you need an EREV. My guess is that with the Leaf rebate halved, the Volt in line for only a slightly lower rebate, and more Volt production we'll see a change in the numbers.

FWIW for the first few months of the year I saw more Volts than Leafs. Now I see more Leafs. But overall the difference isn't gigantic.

 

edvard :
Sorry for hijacking the thread, but I used to come on here quite often and wanted some of your all’s thoughts. I live in the Bay area- where people are more likely to buy cars like the prius, Volt, and Leaf. I’ve been keenly interested in the Volt for years and would love to own one someday. That said… the 40k price has got me waiting until a cheaper version is hopefully available.


That brings me to the point I want to make. Around here I am seeing a LOT of Nissan Leafs. As in they’re starting to become frequent enough to the point where they might as well be a Prius. They seem to be doing really well here even though in my opinion the car has got some serious shortcomings mainly in that if you run out of juice- oh well too bad and that its a car that would only be practical within the immediate area you live and not something you could use for long road trips. Even so- they seem to be selling well.On the other hand I have seriously only seen a handful of Volts. Half of those are owned by utility companies. I hardly ever see them on the roads around here and again- if there were anywhere that people would buy these- the bay area is one of the best bets. This is a disappointment. So what gives? Is it the price? Is it that its not all-electric? I can’t figure it out. There’s certainly no shortage of people with tons of money here.
It may be a case of how initial release areas overlap. The LEAF has been made available only in some "EV ready" locales, the Volt in only a few cities. Are you near the heart of a LEAF release area? Also, total numbers for the 2011 Volt were kept very small as GM tooled up for future EREV production.

The situation for the two makes is poised to drastically change for the 2012 model year; during which the Volt will go nationwide (or nearly so) by the end of this year or early next. Meanwhile, the LEAF will continue it's slow rollout to small "islands" of availability.

For many of the reasons you brought up, you cannot really judge a national trend by what you see in the Bay area. Most of us have never seen a LEAF on the road (and precious few Volts). While there may be a concentration of EV purists in San Francisco, I doubt this is as likely in other parts of the Country. My advice is to watch national sales figures once Volt availability expands, to get a clearer picture.

 

Jackson : Someone please give Don C a [+1] at #9 (I meant to vote his [-1] away, and clicked the wrong button, @!#$^%&. Sorry, Don).
#18

Don't feel like the Lone Ranger, LOL. +1 for fessing up, hahaha. I've done it several times over the months. Pretty irritating!

FWIW, he's at +1 now where you wanted him to be.