GM Volt Forum banner

1 - 7 of 7 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
252 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
878 Posts
Great stuff.

58 MWh lifetime throughput @ $3,400/battery = $0.17 per kWh battery cost. Add 10 cents/kWh for electrical utility costs = $0.27/kWh total electrical energy cost. The break-even point between an ICE and a BEV drops to $2.70 per gallon, not including regenerative braking energy credit, which would make it even lower.

What I found puzzling was the 10 second peak pulse discharge of only 38 kW. How can a 38 kW pulse drive a 150 kW motor to get the 8 second 0-60 acceleration the Volt supposedly will have? Is this developmental battery targeted at the parallel hybrid market?
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
3,689 Posts
What about quick-charge requirements? If we are going to get practical EVs in the future we need to have quick-charge ability. How about throw in requirements for that. Very important. My list of most important specs:

1) Safety - Must pass an agreed-on series of extremely harsh testing.
2) Cost of manufacture - Need highly automated factory designed - very expensive.
3) Quck-charge - Not needed for hybrids but a must for BEVs.

Everything else is good enough for massive fleet transition activity. If the battery only lasts 10 years but reaches their cost specifications it will more than pay for itself in saved gas costs alone. Let's not make the battery too unrealistic to achieve. Push the development - yes. Hinder adoption - no.

Just remember that a battery that can provide 100,000 miles over it's lifetime has an energy value of (100000 miles / 30 mpg X $4.00 per gallon of gas - 100000 miles / 30 mpg X $0.60 per gallon equiv. of electricity) over $10,000, not including taxes and other costs. If you were to get that battery pack for only $3,400 it would be an amazing bargain!

We as humans need to stop comparing renewable energy costs to petroleum energy costs. Cheap oil is a thing of the past (and should stay that way) and the full cost of burning hydrocarbons is not added to the equation. Let's pick the best options from our renewable pool and move forward. Oil has helped us develop as a civilization but is now holding us back. Let's cut the cord and pull our lips from Mother Nature's breast.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,916 Posts
HVACMAN is correct. It looks like a spec for a battery intended for blended mode only. It is not for the Volt or quick charge BEV's as Texas is hoping.

It would be interesting to know where the pricing falls for this kind of battery today. Once this price is met it would translate into a 120 mile battery with around 120KW 10s pulse for $10,200. Since this are only minimum requirements, I don't the A123 has any difficulty far exceeding the pulse power requirments today even with the tradeoffs to get as close to the other requirements as possible.

It still bothers me that GM and every other entity always keep pushing the required life out farther and in terms of lasting the life of the vehicle. I think this would be a great goal if there was little hope of future energy storage improvements, but it is quite the contrary. I think there is some but not much value in battery life beyond 8 years. Li technology has been doubling capacity and halving price every 5 or 6 years. How much extra should we pay for a 15 year battery?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
190 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Let's not forget that the $3400 price is the vendor's cost. Then add vendor's profit, GM's profit, and the dealer's profit, and the customer is going to pay probably double that. But still...

Also, if the battery still has life when the car is junked, then it's resale value will be higher whenever it is sold.

And if the car manufacturers would stick to the battery pack format and sell cars without batteries, then you could transfer your old batteries to your new car and wait until they die before plunking down money for new batteries. (But I'm not going to hold my breath for that to happen.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
251 Posts
Cruise Power Simulation

hvacman
What I found puzzling was the 10 second peak pulse discharge of only 38 kW. How can a 38 kW pulse drive a 150 kW motor to get the 8 second 0-60 acceleration the Volt supposedly will have? Is this developmental battery targeted at the parallel hybrid market?
The specs you looked at are goals from the USABC, not manufacturing technology. The A123 Systems manufactures nanophosphate m1 cells. Assume this technology is used in the Volt. They can have 20 paralleled and 110 stacked to get 16 k*watt*hr. They have a continuous power of 508 kwatt at 363 volt. The cruise power requirements are attached. The generator should be able to handle this up to 80 mph under nominal cruise conditions @500W accessory power.
 

Attachments

1 - 7 of 7 Posts
Top