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A Different Tesla Model 3 EV Miles Prediction Question

3306 Views 34 Replies 16 Participants Last post by  Bacardi
I figure that this would be the best forum to ask this question, so if not, please move it.

For the longest time, I've had an issue with people comparing the Bolt EV and the Model 3. They aren't competitors. However, when it comes to pure BEVs, GM clearly beat Tesla to the average-priced car segment. That's not really a question, but to me the real question is something that has been overlooked by most people. What would GM's Model 3 competitor actually look like. Well, personally, I think we've known since 2010. That's right. GM's EV sedan with a low-slung hatchback trunk has been available at an average new-car MSRP for seven years. Yes, I believe the entry-level Model 3's true competitor is the Chevy Volt.

That being said, if Tesla can ramp up to their full production as planned, we should see roughly four times as many Tesla Model 3s on the road as Chevy Volts by the end of 2018. So, assuming Tesla does meet their production plans, what's your prediction for when the Model 3 will overtake the Volt in total EV miles driven?
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Until GM makes the Cadillac ATS EV with 200+ miles of range, optional AWD, optional Supercruise and all at a price of $35K, there isn't a M3 competitor from GM...

Most people go from Volts to Teslas...Very rare for it to go the other way around...
The question is so difficult to predict...First we don't even have solid Volt EV mile stats since not everyone registers on voltstats so I mean how can we accurately determine the answer?
Next we we don't know the range offerings...Tesla is moving all offering to new denser cells...Musk said they can't fit beyond 75kWh in the M3; the 75kWh MS75RWD gets 249 miles of range, perhaps they'll get 300 miles on their largest battery, but what if they somehow get 350? Same with the base, if they get 215 they'll get there slower than if they somehow manage 239 that again makes a difference...
Lastly we don't know if GM will continue to work on improving range on the Bolt EV either...
I predict a slower than planned ramp up...
just as the Bolt increased Volt sales.
This is really impossible to validate, we can't just use years monthly sales as it doesn't tell the whole story...In fact, if there was no Bolt EV we could argue GM could have sold even more Volts...Furthermore if your statement is true its somewhat a blackeye for the Bolt because you have a buyer who's exciting to go off "big oil" test drives the Bolt EV and for whatever reason buys a PHEV...I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but we're not seeing any stories reported of this actually happening to add credit to this angle...
Something else that I wasn't thinking about, but the electrek article reminded me of. Most of the current Tesla fleet still has unlimited, free Supercharger access. It is easy to be frivolous with your driving when all (or most) of your fuel is free. However, moving forward (and for all Model 3s), only a small amount of Supercharger access each year (400 kWh, or about 1,500 miles) will be free. When paying for your own fuel, no matter how cheap, you tend to drive differently.

Of course, autonomous cars could add yet another variable.
It's also for all Tesla's currently being sold, you can no longer purchase a new Tesla with a free forever SC option...Another wild card is if and when fully autonomous comes on board...Think about it like this, we live in/near Los Angeles, while there's a ton to do, there's also something always going on San Diego, but it's brutal traffic if you don't time it right on a weekend trip...Yet if it's self driving, I can either watch movies, play games, get frisky or do some work so traffic doesn't matter...It sounds highly unlikely there will be any autonomous Gen1 Bolts available to the public based on all the autonomous versions we have seen have had huge roof arrays of expensive equipment yet that is another wildcard to your question...

Remember that Tesla wants to launch their own ride sharing service so when you're not using your vehicle it could in theory drive itself as a taxi...Lastly there was also some talks of "shared ownership", vehicle brings you to work then drives itself back home to pickup and dropoff your significant other...Again just so many wildcards...
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The Model 3 won't be remotely capable of this. At best AutoPilot is a Level 3 system. Have you looked at how many miles AutoPilot was able to drive before it needs human intervention? The report from Tesla said AP needed about 360 interventions per 1000 miles. Compare that to Cruise, which was at 18.5/1000. And then there was Waymo, the clear leader, which was at .8/1000 (the decimal is not a mistake).

If Tesla had a technology which could actually accomplish what you think it can, the stock price would justifiably be a lot higher. ;)

So yes I don't think there will be any Bolt EVs that can do what you're asking anytime soon, but it's more likely to see a Bolt EV get there than a Model 3. I can see big problems for Tesla and even more so for its customers if people share your expectations.
While I understand there is a lot of doubt, myself included that level 4 will be achievable (specifically with 2017 hardware), Musk is selling it now on the S/X and said it would be on the M3...Still comes down to regulations, odds are some cities will allow some of roads to level 4 as a pilot program prior to nationwide approval...
Back to the OP on this thread.

How can you say the Bolt and TM3 are not competitors?
Both are a base price ~$36k / ~230 mile range BEV's. Period
If they were competitors, there would not be thousands of Bolt EVs on the lots right now, they'd sell every one of them until they reached 400Kish...

Two different types of vehicles and two different types of buyers...
They are/were both competing for my money. I put money down on a Bolt, and then later decided the range was not quite sufficient to make my weekly drive. So I bought a Volt and put $1000 down on a TM3. The TM3 has a convenient charging station in the middle of my weekly driving route.
You are in the minority within a minority and there's nothing wrong with that...Most people in the market for the Bolt EV would not consider any other PHEV/anything that uses gas...Then there are those who wouldn't think about an EV if they had to rely on routine destination charging, in which a PHEV/EREV makes sense if ones okay with using gas...

The primary market for the Bolt EV is an existing EV owner, has a Spark EV/Leaf/500e/etc and can't wait to have double-quadruple the range...The secondary market is green car owners, hybrids, 40MPG+ diesel owners, PHEVs, etc...Exceptions will exist...

Tesla is targeting BMW/Audi/etc ICE owners...Exceptions will exist...

The most important aspect is sales; over half of all EVs are sold in CA, the people who were dying to get a Bolt already have one...While it's not available in all states, reported all over the internet that there are many CA dealers willing to sell out of state and even at a discount...GM predicted 25K/year in annual sales and if the stat that half of all EVs are sold in CA, then they may have trouble reaching that goal at current pricing...All we can do is speculate but GM held firm without incentives or a lease deal for the first 3.25 months (Bolt didn't come until the tail end of Dec) of Bolt sales...Now with inventory increasing in April they knocked about 20% off the lease pricing for April...Now who knows, perhaps if GM mirrors the Bolt EVs incentives to the Volts, including the great 20% off of any dealer discounts, perhaps it'll result in a huge sales spike...
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Did they? I thought they stayed away from making a sales prediction. I know there have been statements made about manufacturing capacity, but I have not seen any from GM on sales for the car.
Life isn't black and white, it's 50+ shades of grey...We can choose to ignore any possibility of something being valid until the CEO of the company themselves states it as a fact...

The “rumors” of course were via the same source (2 of GM’s own parts suppliers) that first confirmed the Bolt EV into production (before GM), named the location of the production (Orion facility-before GM), when it would go into production (~October of 2016) and that a European version would be built alongside (Opel-before GM did)…all of which turned out to be valid. The only remaining forecast not yet confirmed? The 25,000-30,000 planned capacity run.

http://insideevs.com/general-motors-can-make-50000-chevrolet-bolts-per-year/

But even that 25K number seems harder and harder to meet month after month...I personally created a Bolt EV sales poll in which I believe it would sell more than 25K, however I did not expect the current president to be in office nor his cabinet filled with climate deniers...Chevy also broke tradition with the Bolts pricing in two ways...First incentives, every Chevy including the Z06 Vette qualifies for an array of incentives with some of the most generous being given to the Spark EV and Gen2 Volt...Second pricing, the Gen2 Volt launched through Costco under invoice, the Bolt EV didn't even qualify...So armed with the pricing/incentive structure (and that may improve) and the political climate I believe sales will be closer to 20K...But ultimately it comes down to gas prices, if it shoots up to $5/gal, EV sales will skyrocket...
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