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So 1 week into being a new owner and I still am not sure about charging. Today we drove a lot 52 miles and still have 10 miles on EV. Just plugged it in and it says it will not be ready till 11:30 tomorrow - 16 hours. I know I have it on 8 amps and that slows it down, but I'm scared to run it at 12 amps because the house is old and I dont trust the wires. One electrician comes tomorrow... (anyone have an LA area guy they like who knows about Volts for a second estimate?) and I'm still not sure if I should go for the 110 or the 220. One online estimate said the 220 would be $200 more and that $200 might be better spent on window tinting or Volt Shelf.

So my question is at 12 amps on a 110 - in real world (not sales websites) how long is it taking?
How long if its a 220 with adapter using the cord that came with the car?

Loving my 1st full week with the car.
 

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So 1 week into being a new owner and I still am not sure about charging. Today we drove a lot 52 miles and still have 10 miles on EV. Just plugged it in and it says it will not be ready till 11:30 tomorrow - 16 hours. I know I have it on 8 amps and that slows it down, but I'm scared to run it at 12 amps because the house is old and I dont trust the wires. One electrician comes tomorrow... (anyone have an LA area guy they like who knows about Volts for a second estimate?) and I'm still not sure if I should go for the 110 or the 220. One online estimate said the 220 would be $200 more and that $200 might be better spent on window tinting or Volt Shelf.

So my question is at 12 amps on a 110 - in real world (not sales websites) how long is it taking?
How long if its a 220 with adapter using the cord that came with the car?

Loving my 1st full week with the car.
I LOVE having 220 available. The knowing that I can go back out again in a couple of hours is really nice. That said, the number of times I do is fewer than I'd really like to admit, and being able to do the same thing by burning a couple of bucks in gas means it's really not that critical. So if it's REALLY a choice between the window tint and the 220 and you can't just wait a month or two for the tint, a dedicated 120/20 circuit would probably be enough. (But if it's just a couple of months wait, go the 220. it still is a joy, even after a year. "I could go get cheeseburgers and custard at Kopps in two hours. I might even be hungry by then" is a real thought.)
 

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I LOVE having 220 available. The knowing that I can go back out again in a couple of hours is really nice. That said, the number of times I do is fewer than I'd really like to admit, and being able to do the same thing by burning a couple of bucks in gas means it's really not that critical. So if it's REALLY a choice between the window tint and the 220 and you can't just wait a month or two for the tint, a dedicated 120/20 circuit would probably be enough. (But if it's just a couple of months wait, go the 220. it still is a joy, even after a year. "I could go get cheeseburgers and custard at Kopps in two hours. I might even be hungry by then" is a real thought.)
ETA: Oh, how long: seriously, 16 hours becomes 11. It's confidence that it'll be recharged in the morning, but you're still pretty much done for the day when you're done for the the day. There's no "refreshed and ready to go" on even 12 amps.
 

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Get a 220V charger. I have the ClipperCreek HCS40 which is what everyone on this forum recommended. It's great, very well made. A 220 charges in 4.5 hours, the 110 is 13 at 12 amps and over 20 hours at 8 amps. I have a very old house, built 1820, and my wiring is old so when I first got the Volt I was charging at 8 amps which is intolerable. I had my electrician run a new 220V line and install my ClipperCreek. Having a permanently installed charger makes a world of difference, when you park you just gran the cable from it's holster and plug in.
 

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The math is actually very simple
Amps x Volts = Watts

So 8 Amps x 110 Volts = 880 watts/hr (note 1 Kilowatt is 1000 watts) So if your battery needs 10kw to fill up (10,000 watts) then you just divide how many watts you need by how fast you are charging (10,000 watts to fill, divided by the 880 watts your charger is producing). 10,000/880=11.36 hours

If you push that up to 12 Amps x 110 Volts = 1,320 watts/hr
so using the same 10kw to fill from above 10,000/1320=7.5hr

Now if you go to a level 2 system then the standard is 20 Amps at 220 volts (20x220=4,400 Watt/hr)
so using the same 10kw to fill from above 10,000/4,400=about 2.5hr

Now your Volt has (if I'm remembering correctly) an 18.4kWh battery but it only ever uses part of that, though I don't remember how much.
 

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For those of us who are on a TOU plan, a 240 V EVSE is a must. My lowest cost electricity is available from 900PM to 900AM the following morning. So I usually start charging at 12 midnight so the Volt is fully charged by early morning. I don't want to charge during the day when rates are the highest, hence no 120 V charging for me at home.
 

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I'm sorry, but as a physics teacher I cannot let this stand.
The math is actually very simple
Amps x Volts = Watts correct!

So 8 Amps x 110 Volts = 880 watts/hr suddenly, per hour is added?! (note 1 Kilowatt is 1000 watts) So if your battery needs 10kw-hrs (need hours here) to fill up (10,000 watt-hours) then you just divide how many watts you need by how fast you are charging (10,000 watt-hours to fill, divided by the 880 watts your charger is producing). 10,000W.hr/880[W]=11.36 hours
Units aside, I haven't had problems charging at 12A, 120V in an old house. However, if you're having an electrician run wires anyway, might as well go for 240.

Cheers! :)
 

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Lots of good advice. Note that charging rates aren't linear. During charging there is a set amount of overhead needed for things like cooling. That set amount is a higher percentage of the lower charging rate. Hence doubling the watts generally charges more than twice as fast.
 

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Now your Volt has (if I'm remembering correctly) an 18.4kWh battery but it only ever uses part of that, though I don't remember how much.
A Gen 2 has about 14.4kWh usable. To Charge that it takes about 16 kWh because of efficiency losses (11h on 120v / 12 Amps)
The good news is the Gen 2 EVSE can be plugged in 240V with an adapter (there is a dedicated thread about this below).
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?218442-Gen2-Volt-EVSE-conversion-to-L2-L1-combo-DONE!

On 240V the Gen 2 EVSE charges also at 12 Amps, which means full charge in 5.5 hours.

So I would definitely have a 240V dedicated outlet Installed and get an Adapter from Chris TX (the creator of the above thread) for it.

But if 11 hours for a full charge is all you need and don't want to bother with an adapter, just get a dedicated 120Volt outlet.
 

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You say your house is old, but if it is 50 years or newer, the actual wires are more than likely just fine. The only thing to watch for is aluminum wiring which you don't want. Most issues will come from the connections or the outlets. Good quality replacement outlets are less than $10 at a big box store, make good connections to the screw terminals on the outlet and you are good to go. Set the Volt for 12 amps and see for yourself how long it will take. The Volt will tell you when you plug in.

If you can get an electrician to install a 240v outlet for $200 you will have beat many others.

VIN # B0985
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Scrambler - I cant seem to PM Chris TX to find a link to his adapter. I keep looking at that 45 page thread and am intimidated and confused.

AZ EV Driver - installing the 240v is $200 MORE than the 120v which is like $450. Seems like a lot, but it is about 70+ feet from the
breaker box all through a tight crawl space. The house 75+ years old. Well built but I worry. And the outlets are for sure not modern.

Suffering form analysis paralysis...
 

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Scrambler - I cant seem to PM Chris TX to find a link to his adapter. I keep looking at that 45 page thread and am intimidated and confused.

AZ EV Driver - installing the 240v is $200 MORE than the 120v which is like $450. Seems like a lot, but it is about 70+ feet from the
breaker box all through a tight crawl space. The house 75+ years old. Well built but I worry. And the outlets are for sure not modern.

Suffering form analysis paralysis...
All the more reason do get the 220V right off the bat, since the install is a pain. The 220V gives much more options later down the line: get the conversion kit for the EVSE, get a charger, get a Tesla, etc...

The only way I would consider the 120V outlet is if I was selling the house within a year or 2.
 

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Was charging a 2015 Volt on 110V at 12A but found out that line was also shared with garage refrigerator after 15A breaker tripped several times. Forced to charge at 8A which increased charging time to 15 hours, which was unacceptably long. Broke down and had electrician install a 220v outlet and bought a Clipper Creek LCS-20P charging station, which I'm very happy with. Charge time is now 4 hours which is very liberating!
 

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Was charging a 2015 Volt on 110V at 12A but found out that line was also shared with garage refrigerator after 15A breaker tripped several times. Forced to charge at 8A which increased charging time to 15 hours, which was unacceptably long. Broke down and had electrician install a 220v outlet and bought a Clipper Creek LCS-20P charging station, which I'm very happy with. Charge time is now 4 hours which is very liberating!
Get an HCS-40, the price difference isn't that great and then you'll be future proofed. The HCS-40 will be able to handle a Bolt or a Tesla if you go that way in the future. The electrician cost will be the same either way. When I had mine put in the electrician ran a 50 Amp circuit, the HCS-40 uses 32 Amps so a 40A circuit would have been fine but it can't hurt to have a heavier line just in case I, or some future owner, needs something heavier duty then an HCS-40.
 

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Older houses may not have 200 Amp service. That's another consideration. I charge my Volt at 240v but for a few years I charged at 120v. It wasn't a big deal. 240v charging is definitely more convenient but it's not really necessary.
 

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A Gen 2 has about 14.4kWh usable. To Charge that it takes about 16 kWh because of efficiency losses (11h on 120v / 12 Amps)
Oh, and there's condition losses too. Less important in LA than a lot of places, but heating the battery pack in REALLY COLD weather could steal 500 of the ~900 watts available from an 8 amp charge just to keep the battery warm enough to TAKE a charge. Which means you get a paltry half kwh added to the charge per hour of charging, and it could take a full day to get a full charge. L2 mitigates almost all of that.
 

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The math is actually very simple
Amps x Volts = Watts

So 8 Amps x 110 Volts = 880 watts/hr (note 1 Kilowatt is 1000 watts) So if your battery needs 10kw to fill up (10,000 watts) then you just divide how many watts you need by how fast you are charging (10,000 watts to fill, divided by the 880 watts your charger is producing). 10,000/880=11.36 hours

If you push that up to 12 Amps x 110 Volts = 1,320 watts/hr
so using the same 10kw to fill from above 10,000/1320=7.5hr

Now if you go to a level 2 system then the standard is 20 Amps at 220 volts (20x220=4,400 Watt/hr)
so using the same 10kw to fill from above 10,000/4,400=about 2.5hr

Now your Volt has (if I'm remembering correctly) an 18.4kWh battery but it only ever uses part of that, though I don't remember how much.
The math is simple, but you are using the wrong numbers ;) and you seem a bit confused on correct units...
US supply can vary a bit but it's nominally 120 V has a median of 117, so using 120 V makes more sense for most people than 110. So 8A x 120 = 960 Watts and at 12A it's 1440 W. You also are neglected charging losses in your calcs. Gen1 has 10.5 kWh usable, but with charging losses it's usually around 12 kWh. But don't forget that the charge rate slows down near the end, there is also some cell-balancing that can be done at the end, and heating/cooling might be needed as well... so it's hard to predict things too accurately. Generally 8A takes 13-16 hours and 12A takes 9-11. These are gen1 numbers, gen2 will obviously be more.

For L2, it's not 20 amps, it's nominally 13.75 at 240 = 3.3 kW. If you have 208 (commercial) supply, it can increase up to 15A IIRC, for 3.1 kW. Like L1, it's hard to predict exactly, but at 3.3 it takes around 4 hours. Again, these are gen1 value, gen2 can go up to 3.6 kW but has higher capacity so it still takes a bit longer than gen1.
 

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Scrambler - I cant seem to PM Chris TX to find a link to his adapter. I keep looking at that 45 page thread and am intimidated and confused.

AZ EV Driver - installing the 240v is $200 MORE than the 120v which is like $450. Seems like a lot, but it is about 70+ feet from the
breaker box all through a tight crawl space. The house 75+ years old. Well built but I worry. And the outlets are for sure not modern.

Suffering form analysis paralysis...
When you say you cant seem to PM Chris, do you mean he has not responded yet, or you don't know how to PM him. I the later click on his name and then private message link or the one below
http://gm-volt.com/forum/private.php?do=newpm&u=65569

If the former, give him a couple of days.

Regarding the cost differential between 120V outlet or 240V outlet, the installation work is exactly the same, the only difference is a few more $ for the outlet and for the breaker, and eventually the wire if you are future proofing for a Level 2 charger.

So $200 difference is exaggerated, you may want to ask for a couple of different quotes, just asking for 240V dedicated outlet and see what other come up with.
 

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Older houses may not have 200 Amp service. That's another consideration. I charge my Volt at 240v but for a few years I charged at 120v. It wasn't a big deal. 240v charging is definitely more convenient but it's not really necessary.
I took the installation of the charger as an opportunity to have my breaker box replaced. The breaker boxes in my house were a minimum of 50 years old and apparently very dangerous. My electrician has been telling me to replace them for 20 years but I kept putting it off. When I called to have them install the ClipperCreek my electricians son, who is now running their business, said something that convinced be to finally replaces the system. His words were, don't Google Federal Pacific breaker boxes, which is what I had, before you go to sleep because you won't sleep. The cost of replacing my old fire hazard boxes with a new bigger box, plus the new 50A line to the ClipperCreek, was only $2800.
 

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AZ EV Driver - installing the 240v is $200 MORE than the 120v which is like $450. Seems like a lot, but it is about 70+ feet from the
breaker box all through a tight crawl space. The house 75+ years old. Well built but I worry. And the outlets are for sure not modern.

Suffering form analysis paralysis...
75+ years old probably doesn't have more than a 100 amp main panel, and it is more than likely full or nearly full. It is also quite possible that in the past 75+ years the house has been rewired, so you may still be good for a 120V outlet. Adding a 240V line may not be in the cards unless the main panel is upgraded as well ($$). The electrician will let you know what is possible.

VIN # B0985
 
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