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In the Boston area some dealers are offering 8K off MSRP. Plus the 7,500K Federal Tax Credit and a Mass 2K incentive.


Scott
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This kind of throws shade on the claims that GM loses money on every Volt sold. It even puts into doubt the idea that Volts aren't mildly profitable for GM. If they can throw an $8000 credit at some Volt buyers, they must be making a decent amount on the vast majority of us who paid just a few thousand less than MSRP for our Volts.
 

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You never know why these things happen. I'd guess ZEV credits but might be production related. I don't think the discounts on the Volt will change the sales numbers for the Bolt EV in January for a couple of reasons. One is that the discounts have come very very late in the month. Two is that people wanting a Bolt EV want a Bolt EV. I don't think we're into the mainstream buyer by any stretch. Mostly tech and EV nuts at this point, and those folks know what they want.
 

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This kind of throws shade on the claims that GM loses money on every Volt sold. It even puts into doubt the idea that Volts aren't mildly profitable for GM. If they can throw an $8000 credit at some Volt buyers, they must be making a decent amount on the vast majority of us who paid just a few thousand less than MSRP for our Volts.
Sure GM is profitable on the volt, especially in the first 18 months of production where most people paid nearly MSRP. As sales begin to slow, GM piles on incentives so the dealerships can still make their profit while discounting. Just like 2014 models saw a price drop, my guess is that battery prices keep dropping allowing GM to drop their prices without eating too much into the bottom line. I'd look for a price drop in the 2018 model and if we don't see it this fall, then definitely in the 2019 model year.
 

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It's from Seeking Alpha site with anti-Tesla stock recommendations...

But it says that GM might be playing an unofficial war with Tesla by increasing the discounts to the Chevy Volt and the Chevy Bolts. A very hefty discounts for the Volt!



http://seekingalpha.com/article/404...high-discounts-chevy-bolt-volt-pressure-tesla
GM has always had attractive incentive rich offers on the Gen2 Volt however this has not yet been the case the Bolt EV...

In the Boston area some dealers are offering 8K off MSRP. Plus the 7,500K Federal Tax Credit and a Mass 2K incentive.


Scott
2017 Premier
There is an utilize subsidized drive green program for Mass residents...

This kind of throws shade on the claims that GM loses money on every Volt sold. It even puts into doubt the idea that Volts aren't mildly profitable for GM. If they can throw an $8000 credit at some Volt buyers, they must be making a decent amount on the vast majority of us who paid just a few thousand less than MSRP for our Volts.
There's GM and the dealerships, GM sells the cars to the dealership and the dealership sells to the consumer; in the $8K off example about $4K is offered by the dealership...Then the other $4K is supplied by GM in which $3K in the form of bonus tags which to my understanding are limited and can be applied to other vehicles...Overall point being GM isn't exactly dropping $8K in discounts on Volts and with that being said you can qualify for even more incentives such as the FB, loyalty/conquest and use your GM points...

Sure GM is profitable on the volt, especially in the first 18 months of production where most people paid nearly MSRP. As sales begin to slow, GM piles on incentives so the dealerships can still make their profit while discounting. Just like 2014 models saw a price drop, my guess is that battery prices keep dropping allowing GM to drop their prices without eating too much into the bottom line. I'd look for a price drop in the 2018 model and if we don't see it this fall, then definitely in the 2019 model year.
CEO in 2013 said every Volt cost more to produce than its MSRP...However GM is already heavily subsidizing Gen2 Volt leases (Bolts it's not), if you can qualify for $5K in various incentives like the bonus tags, lease conquest and use your points, combine that with the low resale and there's no way GM is possibly making money on leased Volts...For example many dealers in Cali are leasing base LTs for $0 drive off and $200/mo...
 

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CEO in 2013 said every Volt cost more to produce than its MSRP...However GM is already heavily subsidizing Gen2 Volt leases (Bolts it's not), if you can qualify for $5K in various incentives like the bonus tags, lease conquest and use your points, combine that with the low resale and there's no way GM is possibly making money on leased Volts...For example many dealers in Cali are leasing base LTs for $0 drive off and $200/mo...
A couple of points. I'm not sure what you're referring to about the cost of making a Volt exceeding its MSRP. Do you have a cite for this? It's likely not true in the sense that most people would think of it. Most people think in terms of factory variable costs, the direct costs in labor and material. FVC very likely does not exceed MSRP. However, the fully loaded costs, meaning costs that include everything including marketing, R&D, and so forth, may very well may exceed MSRP. (The difference between direct costs and fully loaded costs is why Tesla loses money when its cars have a positive margin).

Then of course you have to add in $7K in ZEV credits and the contribution to CAFE. I suspect when you do that the Volt is profitable even on a fully loaded basis.

As for GM subsidizing leases, I think this is the wrong way to look at the issue. GM is discounting. The same discounts are available for leasing or buying. It's just that when leasing you get the benefit of the discount over three years rather than six or seven. In some ways the risk of a very low resale price gets shifted to the financing company. Since this is likely GM, you can say GM is subsidizing the lease, but not in a direct sense. On the flip side, if you lease you leave about half the tax credit on the table.
 

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A couple of points. I'm not sure what you're referring to about the cost of making a Volt exceeding its MSRP. Do you have a cite for this? It's likely not true in the sense that most people would think of it. Most people think in terms of factory variable costs, the direct costs in labor and material. FVC very likely does not exceed MSRP. However, the fully loaded costs, meaning costs that include everything including marketing, R&D, and so forth, may very well may exceed MSRP. (The difference between direct costs and fully loaded costs is why Tesla loses money when its cars have a positive margin).

Then of course you have to add in $7K in ZEV credits and the contribution to CAFE. I suspect when you do that the Volt is profitable even on a fully loaded basis.

As for GM subsidizing leases, I think this is the wrong way to look at the issue. GM is discounting. The same discounts are available for leasing or buying. It's just that when leasing you get the benefit of the discount over three years rather than six or seven. In some ways the risk of a very low resale price gets shifted to the financing company. Since this is likely GM, you can say GM is subsidizing the lease, but not in a direct sense. On the flip side, if you lease you leave about half the tax credit on the table.
It's a double edge sword. Nobody in their right mind would pay close to MSRP for a used volt because of the discounting and tax credits, thus used volt prices immediately lose at least $7500 because of the tax credit (more in states that offer rebates). Add any depreciation and we get horrible trade in prices.
 

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It's a double edge sword. Nobody in their right mind would pay close to MSRP for a used volt because of the discounting and tax credits, thus used volt prices immediately lose at least $7500 because of the tax credit (more in states that offer rebates). Add any depreciation and we get horrible trade in prices.
Personally, I think it is flawed to view that as depreciation. Sure, I can say that my $38,000 Premier Volt "depreciated" an additional $9,000, but I actually pocketed that money. Now, going from the remaining $29,000 to $15,000 is a big hit.
 

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In late December, I got $8,500 off a 2017 Premier from Quirk Chevy in Braintree, Mass (just outside of Boston). That was $6K off from the dealer and $2,500 from a GM "rebate" (part of it conditioned on taking a GM auto loan, which I have promptly repaid.)
 

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A couple of points. I'm not sure what you're referring to about the cost of making a Volt exceeding its MSRP. Do you have a cite for this? It's likely not true in the sense that most people would think of it. Most people think in terms of factory variable costs, the direct costs in labor and material. FVC very likely does not exceed MSRP. However, the fully loaded costs, meaning costs that include everything including marketing, R&D, and so forth, may very well may exceed MSRP. (The difference between direct costs and fully loaded costs is why Tesla loses money when its cars have a positive margin).

Then of course you have to add in $7K in ZEV credits and the contribution to CAFE. I suspect when you do that the Volt is profitable even on a fully loaded basis.

As for GM subsidizing leases, I think this is the wrong way to look at the issue. GM is discounting. The same discounts are available for leasing or buying. It's just that when leasing you get the benefit of the discount over three years rather than six or seven. In some ways the risk of a very low resale price gets shifted to the financing company. Since this is likely GM, you can say GM is subsidizing the lease, but not in a direct sense. On the flip side, if you lease you leave about half the tax credit on the table.
http://fortune.com/2013/04/30/gms-akerson-next-chevy-volt-should-be-profitable/ is the source:
ex-CEO Dan Akerson "We’re losing money on every one."...Now that's not accounting for CARB/ZEV credits yet that's as bold as a statement that you're going to hear...

With the leases, in the CARB states, it changes month to month but there are additional incentives where you get pretty close to the whole tax credit amount (usually around 80%) and you also get your first lease payment waived in CARB states...But there's other factors to the lease, MF is .96% and to qualify for that top credit tier you only need a 620 credit score...

If we look at the hard numbers, in CA again it's reported that if you can qualify for multiple incentives and get big discount off the sales price, $0 down X 35 payments of $185 (no tax) = roughly $6500...The MSRP is $34K...KBB is saying a MY16 pure base with 10K miles in excellent condition is worth a tad over $18K...If one were to lease a MY17 today, three years from now, how much would it be worth, $15K? Just not seeing the math of how GM can profit from a Volt lease when someone qualifies for thousands of GM incentives...
 
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