[mrick]

So I bought my volt at a discount. I went to see it with the intent there was no credit attached to it.

However, the dealer said that it used for them because it had been used by GM but had never been titled. This surprised me because they sell it as part of there Certified Used Car Program. They gave me a car fax report and under title there is nothing. I called a friend who sells used cars and he said if there is not a previous title on the Car Fax report, it has not been titled.

So before I am asked, they said the previous Chevy dealer was using the car for whatever and put 4400 miles on the car. So it is certified used for them. But it hasn't been titled and that makes it used.

So ABC Dealership bought the car but never titled it - so says the car fax report. When I get my title back will that show me what I need to know?

EDIT - I found the National Motor Vehicle Title Information Website. There are a number of services to check the title history for a small fee. I tried several. They all came back that no information was available on the VIN # entered. One actually showed the VIN was associated with a 2018 Volt Premier but still said no information available.

Thoughts?

 

[Steverino]

The tax credit is for new cars, not previously titled. If the car is sold as Used, no tax credit.

 

[bentbiker]

Did the dealer provide you with the original Manufacturer's Statement of Origin (MSO)? This document must be surrendered to the state when first titled, and supposedly, if you have that, you should get the credit. Since dealers sell demo cars as "new" all the time, I'm confused as to why this one is labeled "used". How much did they discount it -- if it's not eligible, I'd expect it to have a discount of $15K+ off MSRP?

 

[mrick]

Did the dealer provide you with the original Manufacturer's Statement of Origin (MSO)? This document must be surrendered to the state when first titled, and supposedly, if you have that, you should get the credit. Since dealers sell demo cars as "new" all the time, I'm confused as to why this one is labeled "used". How much did they discount it -- if it's not eligible, I'd expect it to have a discount of $15K+ off MSRP?

I didn't ask for the MSO or MCO. I might be able to get a copy.

I believe because the warranty starts running when they use it as a program car. They run it through their Certified program and it gives an extended warranty - in this case a bit better than the factory warranty.

 

[obermd]

If it had been used solely by GM then the Federal tax credit still applies. If it was used by the dealership but never titled to the dealership then it's still a "new" car unless it's exceeded the miles that Texas allows on the odometer for new cars. In the case it's exceeded that mileage I would make sure I got at least the $7,500 and whatever credit Texas provides off the MSRP of the car. Anything less and you got ripped off.

 

[klic]

... If the car is sold as Used, no tax credit.

It is confusing, but this is actually incorrect. The dealer may list a car as used (as they did in my case), but they provided the MSO showing the car had never been titled. Federal tax credit went through with no problem. If the dealer can provide the MSO, the Federal tax credit will apply and you're good to go.

 

[Don M]

If either of the dealers who had this car took the $7.5K credit for the VIN on this car, then it's gone and whoever buys the car won't get it, no matter what - You can't take the credit twice on the same VIN. Lots of dealers do this on cars with only a few miles on them (often less than 100 miles) so they can advertise a 'too good to be true' discount and *if* the purchaser doesn't ask if the credit has already been used, they can be in for a BIG surprise

Don

 

[JuneBug]

Is there a web site or database around where I could enter a VIN and see whether or not the $7500 tax credit has already been claimed or is still available?

 

[mrick]

NMVTIS Website

Is there a web site or database around where I could enter a VIN and see whether or not the $7500 tax credit has already been claimed or is still available?

https://www.vehiclehistory.gov/nmvtis_vehiclehistory.html

This is the NMVTIS website. Check your VIN against the listed vendors. If it comes back no information available you know the car has not been titled. If they didn't title the car, they didn't take the credit. If it ask you for money to get the report, probably going to have a title. But spring for 6 bucks and see what the report says.

 

[saltsman]

Regardless of the sales language, if you have the MSO you get the $7,500 tax credit. No MSO, no credit. Also, if the vehicle is new, you are also eligible for a $2,500 Texas rebate https://www.tceq.texas.gov/airquality/terp/ld.html. That's $10K on the line.

 

[Steverino]

It is confusing, but this is actually incorrect. The dealer may list a car as used (as they did in my case), but they provided the MSO showing the car had never been titled. Federal tax credit went through with no problem. If the dealer can provide the MSO, the Federal tax credit will apply and you're good to go.

Yes, the MSO is the final proof on used or new.

 

[mrick]

Regardless of the sales language, if you have the MSO you get the $7,500 tax credit. No MSO, no credit. Also, if the vehicle is new, you are also eligible for a $2,500 Texas rebate https://www.tceq.texas.gov/airquality/terp/ld.html. That's $10K on the line.

Dealer has to certify for the state rebate. Went by and had him sign my application on the dotted line today.

Can't I get the MSO from the state of Texas? The MSO is a dealer document and not a taxpayer document. I asked for it but have not received a copy yet. But my title should show as well or no? Not familiar with how these documents look.

EDIT - Talked to Department of Motor Vehicles. They are sending me Form VTR275. I can get a certified title history from the state for 6.75. I think I will do that. If I the IRS asked to see the MCO I will mail back that they can get that from the dealer but here is my certified title history from the state of Texas.

 

[KenC]

If the gov't has no record of the vehicle being titled, then by all means submit the tax form for the credit. The worst is they deny the credit.

 

[Scarlett1]

If the dealer registered the car for you at the local DMV office, then they should have a copy of the MSO in their files. Ask the dealership to see that copy. If it was never titled before you, the dealer would have filled your name in on it.

I went through a huge run-around with one dealership on exactly that. They insisted that they had the MSO and the car was eligible for the tax credit. finally got out their file on the car and had a xerox COPY of the MSO in it. It had been registered to them as a demo car and they finally admitted that the actual MSO had been turned in to the DMV. The copy of the MSO showed that the car had been titled in the dealership's name. I walked away...

HTH,


Steve

 

[JuneBug]

https://www.vehiclehistory.gov/nmvtis_vehiclehistory.html

This is the NMVTIS website. Check your VIN against the listed vendors. If it comes back no information available you know the car has not been titled. If they didn't title the car, they didn't take the credit. If it ask you for money to get the report, probably going to have a title. But spring for 6 bucks and see what the report says.

Well, that doesn't really help. I know the car has been titled, but that doesn't mean that the tax credit was used. Believe it or not, some buyers didn't know about the tax credit and never filed for it. Or, they didn't think the Volt was eligible because it has a gasoline engine.

 

[BillG]

Dealer has to certify for the state rebate. Went by and had him sign my application on the dotted line today.

Can't I get the MSO from the state of Texas? The MSO is a dealer document and not a taxpayer document. I asked for it but have not received a copy yet. But my title should show as well or no? Not familiar with how these documents look.

EDIT - Talked to Department of Motor Vehicles. They are sending me Form VTR275. I can get a certified title history from the state for 6.75. I think I will do that. If I the IRS asked to see the MCO I will mail back that they can get that from the dealer but here is my certified title history from the state of Texas.

If the state pays you the $2500 (taxable, by the way), I would consider that as prima facie evidence that the vehicle is eligible for the $7500 federal tax credit. Just take it and argue later if the IRS comes calling (they won't).

 

[Mister Dave]

Is there a web site or database around where I could enter a VIN and see whether or not the $7500 tax credit has already been claimed or is still available?

Well, that doesn't really help. I know the car has been titled, but that doesn't mean that the tax credit was used. Believe it or not, some buyers didn't know about the tax credit and never filed for it. Or, they didn't think the Volt was eligible because it has a gasoline engine.

Only the first title holder can take the credit. The second title holder is not eligible under any circumstances.

 

[saltsman]

Only the first title holder can take the credit. The second title holder is not eligible under any circumstances.

Agreed. It's not the first to file, it's the first to title. No MSO, no tax credit - period.

 

[Mister Dave]

Agreed. It's not the first to file, it's the first to title.

That's a good way to put it.

No MSO, no tax credit - period.

The MSO/MCO is really irrelevant to the buyer. Some like to see a copy but it doesn't prove that the dealer didn't surrender it to the state prior - it's become more of a forum meme really. I never saw the MSO for my car. I just filed and got the credit.

I'd ask to see a current CarFax if I was unsure. There I could verify that it's not already titled in real time.

The MSO is a dealer document and not a taxpayer document.

mrick got that part right.

The confusion seems to revolve around buying an untitled car as used. It's common with demo/loaner cars that the dealer licenses a car for road use using the MSO (perfectly legal). After the odometer ticks off a specific number of miles it has to be sold as used. The tax credit still applies because it was never titled.

 

[AJDare]

Not certain how Texas works their registration, but in Massachusetts I need either the title, signed over to me, or the MSO. Originals only no copies.

Every new car that I have ever purchased, I have been provided the original MSO. Without it, I can't register the car.

As far as I know, most dealerships don't register their demos. They usually have a dealer plates, that can be legally attached to any vehicle. They pay a ton for insurance, but it allows them to test drive any car on the lot.

The only reason that I can think of for a dealership to register/title a vehicle would be to take advantage of the federal credit.