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Discussion Starter #1
Nissan has confirmed that the 2013 LEAF will have a 6.6 kW on board charger.

http://www.autotrader.com/research/article/car-news/110309/nissan-updates-leaf-for-2012-2013.jsp

That means that the 2013 Leaf will charge in only 3.5-4 hours when empty compared to the current Leaf which requires 7-8 hours to charge completely from a level 2 charger.

I'm wondering if the VOLT will also have a 6.6 kW charger in the 2013 model. Although not as essential as in an all electric car, that would be a nice feature to have. 2 hours or less would be needed to fully charge !! Since the goal is to use the least oil as possible, that would be an advantage ...

Anyone as any inside information about that?

Sly Nissan-Leaf.jpg
 

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I"m going to speculate that it isn't likely. Nissan had a lot of pressure to do it because of the FFE, and it also matters because some places have off peak power for six hours a day - meaning that you might not be able to fully charge off peak if you drove a lot.

I don't feel like the difference between 4 hours and 2 hours is of much value to anyone (could be wrong,) and the Volt still has no real competition to drive them IMHO.
 

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I really doubt GM would change to the 6.6 kW charger for 2013. Probably Volt 2.0.

Personally, I would love it it they did! Or even offer it as dealer upgrade option for older Volts. Could you imagine going out to lunch or dinner with a restaurant/store that has an EVSE and getting a 50% charge during the hour!
 

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to be honest, I like the charger right where it is. I use time of use with demand. That means there is a component of the bill that takes the most energy used during a 15 minute period and multiplies it towards a rate (~$3.50-$5 depending on the season). The current charger at 240V has raised my demand factor by about 1. No biggie. This means I can still charge it during the peak hours, and not hurt myself much. If I had a charger that increased that, it would start to negate the 'D' part of TOU. I think 3.5 hours is more than enough for most of us. I normally can charge for 1.5 hours and have enough range to go on a quick errand.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
to be honest, I like the charger right where it is. I use time of use with demand. That means there is a component of the bill that takes the most energy used during a 15 minute period and multiplies it towards a rate (~$3.50-$5 depending on the season). The current charger at 240V has raised my demand factor by about 1. No biggie. This means I can still charge it during the peak hours, and not hurt myself much. If I had a charger that increased that, it would start to negate the 'D' part of TOU. I think 3.5 hours is more than enough for most of us. I normally can charge for 1.5 hours and have enough range to go on a quick errand.
The point is, even if your onboard charger is at 6.6 kW, your 240V will still be at 3.3 kW, therefore it will have no impact on your TOU billing.

The advantage to have a 6.6 kW charger in the Volt is for the public charging stations, like mentioned by MTN Ranger ...
 

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I agree with Walter. Higher voltages aren't good for a battery, and going to 6.6 kW charging won't be of any value for the Volt. I don't even use 3.3 kW charging as it is -- I just use 120v. Then again maybe I'm not representative since, as a Leaf owner, I don't think 6.6 kW charging for the Leaf is necessary. If you charge at home your car is going to be sitting for 8+ hours. It's not going anywhere so what's the rush?

I think that the charge times are misleading. They always presume that you need to fully charge the battery. But is that realistic? I don't run the Leaf down to zero charge very often. Maybe a couple of times a year. Since most days I only need to replenish 60% of the battery, the 6-8 hour charge is really more like a 4-5 hour charge. Plenty of time for that when I take my Zs.

DC fast charging is something different. That I get.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I"m going to speculate that it isn't likely. Nissan had a lot of pressure to do it because of the FFE, and it also matters because some places have off peak power for six hours a day - meaning that you might not be able to fully charge off peak if you drove a lot.

I don't feel like the difference between 4 hours and 2 hours is of much value to anyone (could be wrong,) and the Volt still has no real competition to drive them IMHO.
You're right saghost ... competition will be the main motivation, does anyone know if the Ford C-Max Energi /Fusion Energi will come with a 3.3 kW charger or 6.6 kW ??

Since the Focus is already coming with a 6.6 kW charger, maybe that they will make it a standard??
 

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You're right saghost ... competition will be the main motivation, does anyone know if the Ford C-Max Energi /Fusion Energi will come with a 3.3 kW charger or 6.6 kW ??

Since the Focus is already coming with a 6.6 kW charger, maybe that they will make it a standard??
Ford has given very little definite information about the Energi twins - which is a pity, because they are probably the two most interesting cars scheduled to reach market this year IMO.
 

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Use to be people bragged about horsepower, now its the kWh rating of your on board charger. I Should go patent a 10kWh Hemi Charger :)
 

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While not everyone needs or wants 2 hour charging, it goes a long way towards combating the "it takes forever to charge an EV" complaint. GM could offer the 6.6kW charger as an option, that would also be a good solution. For those that want to charge slow, just have a setting for different charge rates on the charge setup screen.

6.6kW will not "hurt" the battery like a Chademo 480V charge would. Heck, Telsa is going to 20kW on the Model S (3 times higher than 6.6kW, and that's not even their super charger).
 

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What is really needed, and I've been ragging about all along, is a controllable variable rate charge. For you guys with TOU, you could go as fast as possible during the cheap hours, then throttle back if you still needed more charge. The spec supports this, but no charging stations do, and that's silly because all it requires is a way to change the pulse width on the pilot signal. The 120v one can do this, but only while the car is unplugged, which give me the ????? reaction, frankly, and it's a pain to have to go out and do it as the sun comes and goes here.

I just got a level II...it's worse on solar being not adjustable. But I also got a raw high quality EVSE cord, and will be making my own EVSE station to handle this, which will be able to monitor my solar system and adapt accordingly. I'd suppose some others here might have some use for such a thing with a timer function instead? Once it's computer controlled, it's only a question of what you want.
 

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The point is, even if your onboard charger is at 6.6 kW, your 240V will still be at 3.3 kW, therefore it will have no impact on your TOU billing.

The advantage to have a 6.6 kW charger in the Volt is for the public charging stations, like mentioned by MTN Ranger ...
Well that actually would depend on your EVSE. If you have an SPX Voltec then you're right, you wouldn't benefit from a 6.6kW charger at home. But for those of us with 24-32A EVSEs we would benefit with faster charge times. As for TOU, a 4hr charge at 3.3kW would be the same as 2hrs at 6.6kW since you're paying for total kWh. For the Volt a full charge takes about 12.5 to 13kWh (10.4 goes to the battery and the rest to losses like heat), you don't pay more per kWh to charge at 6.6kW.

But to the OP, I also doubt GM will offer this for 2013. I've read elsewhere that a 6.6kW charger would cost quite a bit more than the 3.3kW charger and as others said doesn't add as much value to a Volt as it would to a pure EV like the Leaf. At most I could only see GM offering this as optional equipment. Since price seems to be the biggest complaint against the Volt, I think GM is likely to be focused on cost cutting rather than adding something that wouldn't do much to attract new buyers IMO.

JT
 

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Well that actually would depend on your EVSE. If you have an SPX Voltec then you're right, you wouldn't benefit from a 6.6kW charger at home. But for those of us with 24-32A EVSEs we would benefit with faster charge times. As for TOU, a 4hr charge at 3.3kW would be the same as 2hrs at 6.6kW since you're paying for total kWh. For the Volt a full charge takes about 12.5 to 13kWh (10.4 goes to the battery and the rest to losses like heat), you don't pay more per kWh to charge at 6.6kW.
You might. At some power providers (including mine,) part of the electric bill is a "demand charge" - they take the largest amount of power used for a full minute at any point in the billing period, and multiply it by a number of dollars. If you don't have something else that draws 6+ kW, you might end up paying a few more dollars per month from the demand charge.

Right now, my dryer draws more than my 220 charger, so I wasn't affected, but I believe this is what the other poster was describing.
 

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Right now, my dryer draws more than my 220 charger, so I wasn't affected, but I believe this is what the other poster was describing.
I suspect demand charges are much more common for commercial than residential but I believe that flmark has complained about them as well, so they're obviously out there.

Demand chargers are one of the big problems rolling out DC charging in CA.
 

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they only barely mentioned that the level 3 charger is 440 volts. it is also 3 phase. now lets see how many homes in the US are wired for that industrial grade of electric supply. what is the real cost of that fancy charger when my house will need a commercial grade rewire upgrade to even use it. this might be great for in the field (power by the hour for profit) charge points, but will not fly with in home chargers.
 

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I"m going to speculate that it isn't likely. Nissan had a lot of pressure to do it because of the FFE, and it also matters because some places have off peak power for six hours a day - meaning that you might not be able to fully charge off peak if you drove a lot.

I don't feel like the difference between 4 hours and 2 hours is of much value to anyone (could be wrong,) and the Volt still has no real competition to drive them IMHO.
Real world scenario: SFO is 50 miles from here. There are dozens of 6.6KW EVSE's there. I would arrive totally without charge. If I was picking up someone it might take an hour, if I was early and Customs was slow. Currently I would gain a 25% charge in that hour. Doubling that to 50% seems like a real plus to me. Full charge in an hour would be even better...
 

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I agree with Walter. Higher voltages aren't good for a battery, and going to 6.6 kW charging won't be of any value for the Volt. I don't even use 3.3 kW charging as it is -- I just use 120v.
First off, there's no voltage difference between 6.6kW charging and 3.3kW charging. They're both 240V(ish). If anything, the voltage is lower at 6.6kW because of voltage drop. What changes between the two is the amount of current.

In any case, any charge rate 16kW (1C) or less isn't likely to harm the battery any more than charging at 1.44kW (.09C) is.
 

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My Chargepoint can output 7.2kW... would be nice to use that. :)
 

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A 240V 6.6kW onboard charger while faster (esp for daytime opportunity charging) would likely just be an unneccesary expense for most Volt owners. The majority of people are charging overnight and cutting the charge time from 4 hours to less than 2 isnt really an important consideration. (especially so for the range-etended Volt of course)

Also keep in mind these EVSEs will likely be rated for the full Level 2 specification (7.2kW max) and therefore will require a 240V circuit that is supplied by a 40-60A service that will be quite an expensive upgrade for most homeowners.This is something that is often seen as a hidden cost factor of EVs that can hinder mass appeal and adoption. (but of course you could still use a less expensive 120V option)

Hwever there is some indication that the up-coming Spark EV will be capable of full Level 2 charging rates.

WopOnTour
 
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