[Upper5Percent]

Things are heating up within the electric-car segment. The 2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV was first, but the Tesla Model 3 will soon enter mass production and the 2018 Nissan Leaf will arrive to take on Chevrolet’s mass-market electric car.
And if it’s war, Nissan is ready for battle. Leaked information reported by Autoblog, via Autobytel, shows the 2018 Nissan Leaf will undercut the 2017 Bolt EV by thousands of dollars when it goes sale. To be clear, this is not official information, and we do advise caution with the pricing figures. A speculative tone is present here.
However, as the report stands, the 2018 Nissan Leaf will start at $29,990, which is significantly less expensive than a 2017 Bolt EV. The Bolt EV starts at $37,495 before tax credits. However, this base price reflects a less-powerful battery pack compared to the Bolt EV.
According to the leaks, the base Leaf will use a 40 kWh battery pack to power its electric motor. Range hasn’t been specified, but it’s been rumored Nissan will offer two range options for the next-generation Leaf. The $29,990 Leaf would likely fall short of the Bolt EV’s EPA-estimated 238-mile range, but a pricier version may match or surpass the Bolt EV’s range.
Like we said, we’re going to take this information with a grain of salt. Actually, a couple grains. Automakers tend to reveal a product first and finalize pricing later. Official prices ahead of the car’s actual reveal is cause for skepticism. Speaking of a reveal, the 2018 Nissan Leaf will show its face to the world on September 5, 2017.


Read more: http://gmauthority.com/blog/2017/08...ndercut-2017-chevrolet-bolt-ev/#ixzz4ptZqnUYx

 

[Steverino]

So a car with less range may be less expensive than a car with more range. This would not surprise me.

 

[Ladogaboy]

People keep apologizing for Nissan, but I think this next generation Leaf is a half... baked... effort. They've had seven years to improve the original Leaf, and this is the best they could come up with? If the information Autobytel released is accurate, this upcoming Leaf is the Leaf Nissan should have released three or four years ago.

Oh, and maybe Nissan will release a larger battery trim. When? How much?

My guess is, Nissan underestimated the Bolt EV and they couldn't right the ship in time. Heck, even if they do add a 60 kWh battery version, it's going to be grossly under powered compared to the Bolt EV.

 

[TheBlueFlash]

It's a good time for EVs regardless

 

[Raymondjram]

If the BEV cost is the biggest sale factor, the 2018 Nissan Leaf will take sales away from both the Chevy Bolt EV and the Tesla Motors Model 3. Range seems to be the second factor for sales. This is why the Leaf remains the most sold mass produced BEV in the world, and the Model 3 will never catch up.

 

[BAZINGA]

Interesting choices for buyers, lower cost or more range. The question then is if folks opt for lower cost (less range) is that offset by some sort of "dedicated" DCFC charging solution i.e. dealer network or private?

 

[Shivetya]

I still come out with the feeling that we are still stuck in golf cart land. the battery tech just isn't ready to replace combustion engines and may never be. I think a REX solution is better over all because battery weight is serious issue when trying to increase range and then you run into charging issues with large packs

 

[Raymondjram]

Interesting choices for buyers, lower cost or more range. The question then is if folks opt for lower cost (less range) is that offset by some sort of "dedicated" DCFC charging solution i.e. dealer network or private?

The original Nissan Leaf has two charging ports (I have seen it up close). It has the SAE J1772 for Level 1 and 2 AC charging, plus the CHAdeMO DC port. Since many of the non-Tesla DC charging stations have both SAE CCS and CHAdeMO plugs, the new Leaf will be supported as much as the Chevy Bolt EV.

 

[Raymondjram]

I still come out with the feeling that we are still stuck in golf cart land. the battery tech just isn't ready to replace combustion engines and may never be. I think a REX solution is better over all because battery weight is serious issue when trying to increase range and then you run into charging issues with large packs

That depends on your vehicle needs. Most of us who live in cities and have homes with a garage or carport will travel short distances every day and can charge up overnight. So only those who want to drive over fifty miles in a single trip need a range extender or a bigger battery.

 

[Qinsp]

If the preliminary data is correct, it has less power, less range, and is a Nissan. Is that worth $2500 a piece? I think so.

 

[obermd]

If the preliminary data is correct, it has less power, less range, and is a Nissan. Is that worth $2500 a piece? I think so.

Only if it's a second car. I remember a survey a few years back where the Leaf had the lowest total cost of ownership over five years. What that survey didn't say was that you had to have another vehicle if you wanted to take the family to Yellowstone, effectively doubling or tripling the total cost of ownership.

If the Federal Government really wants to get serious about EVs then require that to get any credit for electrification the vehicles must pass both the EPA (emissions) and NHTSA (highway safety and handling) testing on battery alone.

 

[flyingsherpa]

Only if it's a second car. I remember a survey a few years back where the Leaf had the lowest total cost of ownership over five years. What that survey didn't say was that you had to have another vehicle if you wanted to take the family to Yellowstone, effectively doubling or tripling the total cost of ownership.

If the Federal Government really wants to get serious about EVs then require that to get any credit for electrification the vehicles must pass both the EPA (emissions) and NHTSA (highway safety and handling) testing on battery alone.

Well, the average US household has 2.3 cars, so they already have another car. The Leaf was never meant to be the sole means of transportation for the average family (though some hardy souls make it work). It makes an excellent commuter car for dad while mom has the minivan for the kids and roadtrips. That's a huge market. EVs don't need to be "go anywhere, do anything" to have success; there's lots of places in the market they already fit in.

Heck, a Camry is also a lousy vehicle to take a large family to Yellowstone in... many people rent bigger vehicles for trips like that anyway. I work with a guy who always rents for a roadtrip because if anything goes wrong (breakdown, accident, etc), he can just have Avis give him another one and continue on instead of ruining his trip.

 

[BAZINGA]

The original Nissan Leaf has two charging ports (I have seen it up close). It has the SAE J1772 for Level 1 and 2 AC charging, plus the CHAdeMO DC port. Since many of the non-Tesla DC charging stations have both SAE CCS and CHAdeMO plugs, the new Leaf will be supported as much as the Chevy Bolt EV.

My comment wasn't about the built in hardware, but rather the charging network that will support the car/owner. NISSAN has installed chargers at most of their dealers to allow FREE charging for Leaf owners? I would assume they would need to expand that to include even more stations/plugs at their dealer network and then the cheaper/lessor range Leaf suddenly is a viable option for many.

It's funny every time someone suggests GM should do the same it gets ridiculed as not being viable.

 

[DonC]

I have never doubted that the Leaf would be less expensive than the Bolt EV. Would be shocked if it weren't. Building cheap is what Nissan excels at. It does this so well that I'd never buy another Nissan. Once is enough for having the seat material and the carpet disintegrate and being serenaded by rattles.

 

[obermd]

I have never doubted that the Leaf would be less expensive than the Bolt EV. Would be shocked if it weren't. Building cheap is what Nissan excels at. It does this so well that I'd never buy another Nissan. Once is enough for having the seat material and the carpet disintegrate and being serenaded by rattles.

Agreed. I rented a Nissan Versa. Never again will I drive a Nissan - I felt like I was torturing the car.

 

[llninja]

Agreed. I rented a Nissan Versa. Never again will I drive a Nissan - I felt like I was torturing the car.

I have the exact same response after driving a Nissan Altima and Nissan Sentra (two separate car rentals). The Altima seats were horrible. After 20 minutes both my and my wife's backs hurt. We bought a seat cushion and lumbar support for her, and I had to adjust my seat to be leaning back hanging like a gangsta to avoid the back pain.

That's ruined any desire for a Z or a GT-R in my future.

 

[!arry4pyro]

I think there are millions of people who could use an electric commuter car. You know, charge at night at home, drive to work, go out to lunch or run a few errands and come home and repeat the process for the next day. Note, this is not one car to do everthing, it's job is simply handle the typical daily diving needs, which amounts to fast majority of driving done by most people. For everything else an ICE powered SUV works just fine.

A low cost 40 kwh Leaf with about 150 miles of range could handle this task well. So if this next gen Leaf is significantly cheaper than the Bolt and if battery degradation is held to a reasonable level, this Leaf could sell well.

Of course there is already a better vehicle to handle the role I just described, and that is the Volt. The one thing it can do that a commuter EV cannot, is it can handle all of the driving needs. No second car needed.

 

[Steverino]

there is already a better vehicle to handle the role I just described, and that is the Volt. The one thing it can do that a commuter EV cannot, is it can handle all of the driving needs. No second car needed.

A volt and a Bolt are a great combo platter.

Yes, there is a market for cheap cars that are built cheap, drive cheap and die young. Nissan will have buyers. I won't be one of them.

 

[RePo]

I bought a 2013 Leaf when they were first available. I waited for it since it was slightly improved over the '12. Wife still drives it daily with over 50k miles on it. I never intented to sell it, so I'll never realize the depreciation it's taken. Car has always worked great and I'm glad to see Nissan is staying in the market since they were one of the first BEV on the bleeding edge of a yet-to-exist market.

I rejected the '12 Volt back the because I said "why would I want to pay a premium to drive 36 miles and then start a gas engine like everyone else?" The Leaf drove about 3 times that, never used gas.

Love my Gen2 Volt, looks sexy parked next to "bugface".

 

[Mister Dave]

My guess is, Nissan underestimated the Bolt EV and they couldn't right the ship in time. Heck, even if they do add a 60 kWh battery version, it's going to be grossly under powered compared to the Bolt EV.

Probably right. Retooling takes a while.

And besides that it's still a Nissan. Apologies to our Leaf brothers but they don't have a very good reliability reputation in general.

I have never doubted that the Leaf would be less expensive than the Bolt EV. Would be shocked if it weren't. Building cheap is what Nissan excels at. It does this so well that I'd never buy another Nissan. Once is enough for having the seat material and the carpet disintegrate and being serenaded by rattles.

I rest my case your honor......