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Even though I do not like the Toyota, he makes a great point about the safety features being standard. I should not have to pay several thousands more, just to have the option, to then pay extra for the safety features.
 

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Even though I do not like the Toyota, he makes a great point about the safety features being standard. I should not have to pay several thousands more, just to have the option, to then pay extra for the safety features.
That is a matter of opinion and experience. My 1995 Buick Regal (posted in my signature until Dec 2015) had none of the advanced safety features, yet it survived a rear end collison from a Ford Econovan in 1996. My car was driveable with a crushed rear end and trunk, but the Ford had to be towed, even if it was the vehicle impacting the Regal. And the Regal was pushed forward and impacted a Subaru, denting its trunk (the Regal suffered only scratches on its front bumber), exhibiting its much better strength.

After the repairs, I drove my Regal for another 19 years, and sold it in December 2015 to another who doesn't know that it suffered a heavy crash. So the strength of the vehicle is the most importatnt detail. Options to avoid accidents only are worth their cost if they are used. Apart from this impact I never suffered another accident, which has to do with good driving. not luck.

Don't downplay a much better GM vehicle (Chevy Volt) just because an import had more gadgets. I have survived three accidents (one in a 1967 Chevy Camaro that lost traction), and in the two GM cars, I drove away and had the vehicle repaired.
 

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To be fair, the Tesla will most certainly come out ahead in a collision with a Volt. You can't compare weight classes, as IIHS points out constantly.
The Honda Fit, Smart Fortwo, and Toyota Yaris are good performers in the Institute's frontal offset barrier test, but all three are poor performers in the frontal collisions with midsize cars. These results reflect the laws of the physical universe, specifically principles related to force and distance.
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/desktopnews/new-crash-tests-demonstrate-the-influence-of-vehicle-size-and-weight-on-safety-in-crashes-results-are-relevant-to-fuel-economy-policies

Although the i3, the Volt and the Prius all did better in the small overlap evaluation than the Model S, the results can't be compared because the Model S is larger than the others. Since the kinetic energy involved in a front crash depends on the speed and weight of the vehicle, the Tesla's acceptable rating is based on a more severe crash than the good ratings of the lighter cars.
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/desktopnews/near-miss-two-all-electric-cars-fall-short-of-earning-an-iihs-safety-award (same link you show, just copied for the above quote)

You have to understand how the test is designed, a heavier vehicle will experience a more severe crash, as it simulates hitting another car of the same size and weight.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Most deaths aren't head ons, or even involving other vehicles at all. http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/general-statistics/fatalityfacts/state-by-state-overview

Plug-ins are less than 1% of vehicles. The most popular are pickups then SUVs.

Smart Fortwo - 2050lb
Toyota Yaris - 2315lb
BMW i3 - 2799lb
Prius Prime - 3365lb
Chevy Volt - 3519lb
Tesla MS 60 - 4323lb
Silverado - 4510lb
Suburban - 5586lb

Note, few pickups or SUVs are sold at the lowest weight model. Our heaviest pickup was 8,020lb empty the day it arrived, but is now heavier by 500-600lb. Our lightest truck is 6420lb empty.
 

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How did the '16 Volt do? We have one with the extra safety packages and one without. I'm hoping they are essentially the same?


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Discussion Starter #7
How did the '16 Volt do? We have one with the extra safety packages and one without. I'm hoping they are essentially the same?


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AFAIK, it was not submitted for testing. The 2016 was one of the shortest duration runs in GM history.

It should be identical in crash and headlights as the 2017. The 2017 could score higher when fully loaded because of electronic warfare improvements, not sure though.
 

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To be fair, the Tesla will most certainly come out ahead in a collision with a Volt. You can't compare weight classes, as IIHS points out constantly.

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/desktopnews/new-crash-tests-demonstrate-the-influence-of-vehicle-size-and-weight-on-safety-in-crashes-results-are-relevant-to-fuel-economy-policies


http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/desktopnews/near-miss-two-all-electric-cars-fall-short-of-earning-an-iihs-safety-award (same link you show, just copied for the above quote)

You have to understand how the test is designed, a heavier vehicle will experience a more severe crash, as it simulates hitting another car of the same size and weight.
I don't disagree with the analysis re: weight classes, but I thought IIHS cited those versions of the Model S with large batteries (P90, P100) as having a roof that was not sufficient to protect the cabin in a rollover. There was also a seatbelt issue with the Tesla that will certainly get fixed, but it sounds like Tesla got ahead of themselves with the larger/heavier batteries.
 

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That is a matter of opinion and experience. My 1995 Buick Regal (posted in my signature until Dec 2015) had none of the advanced safety features, yet it survived a rear end collison from a Ford Econovan in 1996. My car was driveable with a crushed rear end and trunk, but the Ford had to be towed, even if it was the vehicle impacting the Regal. And the Regal was pushed forward and impacted a Subaru, denting its trunk (the Regal suffered only scratches on its front bumber), exhibiting its much better strength.

After the repairs, I drove my Regal for another 19 years, and sold it in December 2015 to another who doesn't know that it suffered a heavy crash. So the strength of the vehicle is the most importatnt detail. Options to avoid accidents only are worth their cost if they are used. Apart from this impact I never suffered another accident, which has to do with good driving. not luck.

Don't downplay a much better GM vehicle (Chevy Volt) just because an import had more gadgets. I have survived three accidents (one in a 1967 Chevy Camaro that lost traction), and in the two GM cars, I drove away and had the vehicle repaired.
This isn't applicable to what I am complaining about. To get the extra safety features of the Volt which can stop itself in low speed/and/or high speed you have to purchase a Premier, not an LT. This is several thousand dollars. Then you have to pick the packages (safety) to ADD those features. Safety features like low and or high speed braking should be available on any model, not just the higher priced ones. I would gladly purchase an LT with ACC over a premier, but it simply isn't possible. Kuddos to Toyota for having this feature as standard equipment as this can totally PREVENT a crash.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
This isn't applicable to what I am complaining about. To get the extra safety features of the Volt which can stop itself in low speed/and/or high speed you have to purchase a Premier, not an LT. This is several thousand dollars. Then you have to pick the packages (safety) to ADD those features. Safety features like low and or high speed braking should be available on any model, not just the higher priced ones. I would gladly purchase an LT with ACC over a premier, but it simply isn't possible. Kuddos to Toyota for having this feature as standard equipment as this can totally PREVENT a crash.
If you are the kind of driver who does not pay attention while driving AEB is a great help. So probably most the drivers today who have a text phone in the car.

If you pay attention, you never hit the car in front of you in over 1,000,000 miles over 40 years.
 

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Even though I do not like the Toyota, he makes a great point about the safety features being standard. I should not have to pay several thousands more, just to have the option, to then pay extra for the safety features.
Correct...

You need auto-braking to qualify for the top safety rating, also only the Premier with it's auto high beam passed the headlight test while the LT didn't...GM did promise to make auto-breaking standard by 2022...Most likely all Caddys will get it, followed by Buicks, followed by the Silverado...
 

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If you are the kind of driver who does not pay attention while driving AEB is a great help. So probably most the drivers today who have a text phone in the car.

If you pay attention, you never hit the car in front of you in over 1,000,000 miles over 40 years.
It is definitely a feature that should be available, and it is one that will become standard shortly, probably within 10 years. It is kind of like a back up camera, air bags, beeping sensors for braking and such...it only takes a moment of being distracted for whatever reason. Nobody should have to buy the top of the line model to have the option to add safety features. I don't buy Toyotas but I admire them for making it standard equipment.
 

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If you are the kind of driver who does not pay attention while driving AEB is a great help. So probably most the drivers today who have a text phone in the car.

If you pay attention, you never hit the car in front of you in over 1,000,000 miles over 40 years.
If you pay attention, you'll be glad to know that those who don't have AEB. Maybe our 2013 Volt would have its original bumper if the lady's pick-up had had AEB.
 
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