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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have always had the best displayed range in the summer months, usually around 100-110kms. Including last year. This year, with outside temperatures being relatively the same, my max summer range has dropped to 85-90kms. I would expect the range to drop gradually over time, not to take a step that big in one year.
How has other range changed over the years?
 

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Displayed range is a function of two things - (1) how much energy the computer thinks is in your battery and (2) how much energy per mile the computer thinks you will consume. The second factor is usually the big variable. Your displayed range, for example, will drop by about 30% if you've been doing a lot of freeway driving rather than driving around town because the computer uses your recent driving patterns to estimate miles/kWh.
 

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Actual range is what matters. I run the battery to empty 6 days a week, on the same routes since when I bought the 2017 new. I used to be able to drive my 50 mile work commute on just the battery with several miles remaining to spare. Now with the same route it uses about 5 miles on gas, so there is certainly battery degradation. It really became noticeable around year 5. The kWh used on the energy display has also dropped to 13.2-13.3.
 

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Actual range is what matters. I run the battery to empty 6 days a week, on the same routes since when I bought the 2017 new. I used to be able to drive my 50 mile work commute on just the battery with several miles remaining to spare. Now with the same route it uses about 5 miles on gas, so there is certainly battery degradation. It really became noticeable around year 5. The kWh used on the energy display has also dropped to 13.2-13.3.
I have the exact same situation. As far as I can tell using Mountain Mode is a bad move for the 2nd Gen Volts. There appears to be a feedback loop between Mountain Mode and the updated software that detects battery degradation. My reasoning is my range drop occurred last winter when I was using MM on the freeway to get the best possible MPG (gas) and leave the battery for the slower off-freeway 7 mile tail end of my commute.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Mine is the same route to work everyday, same tires. But I did seem to notice the difference after I had the last recall fixed at the dealer. Is it possible the display change is because of updated software?
 

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Mine is the same route to work everyday, same tires. But I did seem to notice the difference after I had the last recall fixed at the dealer. Is it possible the display change is because of updated software?
Don't worry too much about the estimated range. What matters is the actual range.
Regardless if you drive a Tesla, Ford EV, or a Volt, battery degradation and range reduction is a normal part of EV ownership.
 

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Don't worry too much about the estimated range. What matters is the actual range.
Regardless if you drive a Tesla, Ford EV, or a Volt, battery degradation and range reduction is a normal part of EV ownership.
Take a look at some of the replies to your first comment about "actual range". Some of us are seeing real-world range drops consistent with the decrease from 14 to 13.2KWh battery capacity.
 
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Take a look at some of the replies to your first comment about "actual range". Some of us are seeing real-world range drops consistent with the decrease from 14 to 13.2KWh battery capacity.
I saw that, and our experiences are pretty much the same. The one thing I really don't do which is different from you, is the use of Mountain Mode. Florida is about as flat as it gets. ;) When I'm on a long trip, which occurs most weekends, I'll use Hold Mode on the higher speed highways and use Normal Mode for the rest. However I always finish the trip with an empty battery. So far my battery cell readings look "okay", so this should just be normal degradation.
Those that buy a pure EV really need to factor in an additional 15% to the battery capacity needs to account for long-term degradation.
 

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I saw that, and our experiences are pretty much the same. The one thing I really don't do which is different from you, is the use of Mountain Mode. Florida is about as flat as it gets. ;) When I'm on a long trip, which occurs most weekends, I'll use Hold Mode on the higher speed highways and use Normal Mode for the rest. However I always finish the trip with an empty battery. So far my battery cell readings look "okay", so this should just be normal degradation.
Those that buy a pure EV really need to factor in an additional 15% to the battery capacity needs to account for long-term degradation.
I've done the calculations for BEVs and wouldn't buy any with a range shorter than 300 miles. Between only using 70% of the battery (10-80 or15-85%) and a 20% battery cold weather loss this brings you down to a 33.6 mile round trip commute to only have to charge once a week.
 

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I've done the calculations for BEVs and wouldn't buy any with a range shorter than 300 miles. Between only using 70% of the battery (10-80 or15-85%) and a 20% battery cold weather loss this brings you down to a 33.6 mile round trip commute to only have to charge once a week.
I've concluded the same for my use, after watching many reviewers putting the F-150 Lightning through the paces. Once you factor in the losses that occur at the posted highway speeds, and the fact that you'll be DC fast charging to 80%, plus you don't want to take the battery too low, 300 miles is the minimum. This also assumes no towing over 100 miles. The Lightning's 320 mile EPA rated range will provide ~230 miles at 70 mph on the highway (max) with a reasonable buffer, and 80% of that at DC charging afterwards.
 

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putting the F-150 Lightning through the paces.
No sane person would buy an F150 Lightning (or Tesla X, or Cybertruck, whatever) for towing. It would be great for getting your boat to the local launch or something like that, but any real distances? Forget it.

An F150 Lightning would be a great high-class 'work truck' for the right craftsman though...

-Charlie
 
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No sane person would buy an F150 Lightning (or Tesla X, or Cybertruck, whatever) for towing. It would be great for getting your boat to the local launch or something like that, but any real distances? Forget it.

An F150 Lightning would be a great high-class 'work truck' for the right craftsman though...

-Charlie
Almost nobody actually tows anyway. 75% people who buy trucks "for towing" actually do so 1 or fewer times per year. If you actually tow something often enough to know that you're going to be using towing capacity you're not buying any of the electric trucks currently on offer. For everybody else, talk to UHaul to get a vehicle WHEN YOU NEED IT. Pickups with tow gear on are like $25 per day and sixty cents a mile.
 

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No sane person would buy an F150 Lightning (or Tesla X, or Cybertruck, whatever) for towing. It would be great for getting your boat to the local launch or something like that, but any real distances? Forget it.

An F150 Lightning would be a great high-class 'work truck' for the right craftsman though...

-Charlie
Agreed. Where I see the Lightning possibly fitting in is for those high mileage drivers who need to primarily carry cargo, not tow. When I ran the math, it was a bit cheaper for me over a 10 year period than a Canyon AT4, which is a smaller truck. The driving experience would also be a step up.

Currently, the only time I would need to tow is when teaching by the AF base, which is within 100 miles RT. From the towing tests I've seen, that looks doable.
 

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Mine is the same route to work everyday, same tires. But I did seem to notice the difference after I had the last recall fixed at the dealer. Is it possible the display change is because of updated software?
It was the software. That has been discussed here on other threads. I saw a peak range of 105 km once last year on my 2017, but after the software update last spring I haven't seen anything higher than 96. There was an immediate drop into the high 80s, but range seemed to recover slightly over the ensuing months.
 

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I've done the calculations for BEVs and wouldn't buy any with a range shorter than 300 miles. Between only using 70% of the battery (10-80 or15-85%) and a 20% battery cold weather loss this brings you down to a 33.6 mile round trip commute to only have to charge once a week.
But why would you only charge once a week? Personally, if I wasn't able to charge at home, I wouldn't buy an EV. And if I can charge at home, I'm plugging in my car whenever it's in the garage.
 

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But why would you only charge once a week? Personally, if I wasn't able to charge at home, I wouldn't buy an EV. And if I can charge at home, I'm plugging in my car whenever it's in the garage.
If you live in an apartment complex without charging or have to park on the street, you need a long enough range BEV so you can take it to a DCFC charger just like it was a gas station. For EVs to completely replace ICEVs this is a 100% guaranteed requirement.
 

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For EVs to completely replace ICEVs this is a 100% guaranteed requirement.
Who's saying that's a thing? Seriously. Even California's not promising that. Just not selling any new ICE private vehicles. Used still allowed, importation still allowed, and with decades to address the charging issue while under pressure noting that apartment real estate that doesn't offer changing will be at a significant disadvantage in attracting tenants.... It'll get mostly sorted for EVs and "mostly" will meet the demand until like 2050.
 

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Just not selling any new ICE private vehicles. Used still allowed,
PHEV's with gas engines are available from Toyota, Chrysler, Volvo, Ford, Hyundai, Kia, Ford, BMW, Mitsubishi. Porsche, Jeep, Landrover, Audi and more. All would be allowed for sale in California in 2035 as new cars. It's the gas only new cars that will be off the table.

GM will not be on that PHEV list unless they have an Ultium-based PHEV under wraps that they have not made an announcement on. Perhaps they have one as a design "plan B" exercise, I think it would have market interest but it seems GM has moved on from the complicated drive-train the Volt represents, good as it is.
 

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dharper,

Bought my 2017 Premier used with 40K on it and my mileage based on the "guess-O-Meter" seems to have dropped too. When I started to note the average KWH used, noticed only slight actual changes. I haven't checked individual cell voltages yet but plan to do that in the future. Replacing worn tires dramatically affected my range the most but after the new tires wore in, the KWH range used came back normal. Over all It's just the tradeoff of using less gasoline based energy. Like buying solar panels we are just "paying forward" for our energy use. If you average total cost of vehicle and energy consumed, we may even lose money in the long run. Not worried about saving the planet, Humans exist and they are naturely messy, any landfill will confirm that. Pumping less gases into the air we breath is one reason why I drive an PHEV, efficient energy use is another.

Stephen

-Charlie
[/QUOTE]
Don't worry too much about the estimated range. What matters is the actual range.
Regardless if you drive a Tesla, Ford EV, or a Volt, battery degradation and range reduction is a normal part of EV ownership.
I have always had the best displayed range in the summer months, usually around 100-110kms. Including last year. This year, with outside temperatures being relatively the same, my max summer range has dropped to 85-90kms. I would expect the range to drop gradually over time, not to take a step that big in one year.
How has other range changed over the years?
 
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