GM Volt Forum banner
1 - 20 of 47 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This question has probably been asked 100 times, but I’d really appreciate this forum’s input.

I have a super clean 2017 Volt Premier that is just short of 49k miles. The only problem I’ve ever had with it was the shift to park issue at around 35k, which was fixed under warranty. It’s been great, but it’s also not getting any younger (forthcoming egr and becm issues?). Based on what I’m seeing similar Volts listed at in the region I’m in ($24-25k), I’m guessing I could get around $20k for it at Carmax or for trade in. I got it for $22k 2.5 years ago. So then, my question is: is now the best time to sell/trade-in my car for a new Bolt? The Volt definitely has to go before the 8 year battery warranty expires in 1/2025, and now is looking like a good time to consider moving it.

I’m seeing new ‘22 Bolt LTs listed at $23,500 at a dealership a couple hundred miles from me. With it being questionable whether the (possibly) upcoming tax credits will apply to the Bolt, this is looking like a solid option. I could also wait on the ‘23s, hoping they meet the battery manufacturing conditions of the tax credit*. What are your thoughts? Thank you!

*As currently written, as I understand it, the conditions for the tax credit being applicable to an EV for the 2023 year are that:
1. 40% of the “critical minerals” used in the battery are “extracted or processed in any country with which the United States has a free trade agreement in effect” [half the $7500; no idea where LG sources their minerals for Bolt batteries]
2. 50% of “the components contained in such battery” must be “manufactured or assembled in North America” [the other half of the $7500 credit; the Bolt might be OK here]
(see pages 370-373 of the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 draft to confirm what I’ve said here)
 

·
Premium Member
2012 Volt Premium (Cyber Gray Metallic) - Stock
Joined
·
712 Posts
Sell. Used car values are hotter than ever, it’s close to (or already) out of drive train warranty, what would you do if the trans or head gasket blows up tomorrow? I’m not fear mongering, this literally is stuff that happens though, any car past 5 years can start developing more severe problems than a 1 or 3 year old.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
22,836 Posts
The $7500 fed tax credit does not apply to GM or Tesla (or Toyota?). At least not untill congress passes Manchin's bill. Maybe they will, maybe they won't.
 
  • Like
Reactions: axle69

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
The Schumer-Manchin bill has credits for BOTH new and used cars. Your 2017 Volt should qualify for the used credit of $4,000 depending on the final language. This bill has to move quickly, so give it two weeks to see what emerges. If they pass it and your used Volt qualifies, your value just went up by $4k.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The $7500 fed tax credit does not apply to GM or Tesla (or Toyota?). At least not untill congress passes Manchin's bill. Maybe they will, maybe they won't.
Yes, my comments on tax credits were in regard to the pending legislation. Even if we assume it will pass, it’s impossible to tell at this point whether the Bolt will qualify for the full credit (see the end of my last post for why I say this). So, I either take the risk of missing a good deal on a ‘22 by waiting to see if it passes and the Bolt qualifies, or I get the ‘22 and take the risk of missing out on the credit (I probably wouldn’t miss out on a total of $7500 even if the full credit was allowed, being that I doubt I’d find a ‘23 for $23,500 at that point — plus my Volt might be with less at that time). Or I keep the Volt and accept the rocks that come with age. It’s a tough choice given the uncertainties. I’ve briefly considered just selling the Volt to get the guaranteed return value that’s available that and then waiting to see how the situation with the ‘23s unfold, but I don’t think my wife and I can work with only 1 car for longer than a month or two. All these first-world problems!

The Schumer-Manchin bill has credits for BOTH new and used cars. Your 2017 Volt should qualify for the used credit of $4,000 depending on the final language. This bill has to move quickly, so give it two weeks to see what emerges. If they pass it and your used Volt qualifies, your value just went up by $4k.
Unfortunately, this would not apply to my car….I think. To get this credit, the buyer has to purchase it from a dealer and it has to be “the first transfer since the date of the enactment of this section to a qualified buyer other than the person with whom the original use of such vehicle commenced.” If I’m reading that right (might not be), that means that the dealer has to have gotten it from the original owner. Even if I’m reading that wrong, the car also can’t be sold for more than $25k to qualify for that credit, which is about the price at which Volts like mine are listed at right now. [***see page 390 of the drafted Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 to see where I’m getting my info on the used car credit] So, it seems that there’s a fairly good chance that I’m already around the sweet spot for return value on my Volt, but there are no guarantees (hence my dilemma).

I’m still just trying to gather what you all would do in my situation (It seems that I’m actively looking for peer pressure lol). Thank you all for the great feedback so far!
 

·
Registered
2011 Volt Premier (0737); 2010 Highlander Hybrid; 1993 K3500 6.5TD former ambulance
Joined
·
179 Posts
If it were me, I'd wait for Ultium. I'm a buy-and-hold guy, so I'm drawn to the idea that Ultium platform EVs could be maintained at reasonable cost beyond 10-15 years. [I'm about to drive off in my 1993 K3500 truck that I bought in 2008 for $2200, so you might need to "discount" my opinion a bit, to account for freakishness ;)]
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
22,836 Posts
My expectation would be that GM, Ford, etc. had some input into the starting percentages at least, but who knows?

LG battery plants in Holland and Hazel Park, Michigan are used for the Bolt batteries so that likely meets the "50% of battery components manufactured or assembled in North America "

Though neither GM nor LG has released specifics about the Bolt’s battery chemistry, its ingredients are thought to be NMC 622, or six parts nickel, two parts manganese, and two parts cobalt, plus lithium. I don't think there is any way for us to determine whether it meets the 40% minimum for "critical minerals" that were extracted and processed in North America or a country the U.S. has a trade agreement with, but it probably does. GM would need to certify this in some way. You need to contact GM.

See charts at Where key EV minerals come from to see what countries source various raw materials.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
389 Posts
I also have a 2017 Volt, although mine has a few more miles. With careful driving and maintenance, I hope to have it last until 2028 before the main battery goes bad and it becomes a useless brick. The problem with the Volt is that the main battery is essentially not replaceable because they don't make the battery anymore. IMHO, the Bolt you're thinking about buying will suffer from the same problem. My plan is to use the Volt until it dies and save as much money as I can on gas. When it dies, I might buy a Prius or a Corolla because there are enough of them made that they are supported for maintenance and parts.
 

·
Registered
2017 Volt Premier 110k+ Miles
Joined
·
1,179 Posts
1. Wholesale used car prices are already starting to drop, so it's no longer at the peak. I anticipate they will be falling a lot more over the next few months, so it you want to sell, don't wait.
2. As others have noted, the current version of the Bolt will suffer the same long-term issues as your Volt. Therefore, your reason for selling the Volt due to those concerns, and moving into a like vehicle, doesn't make much sense to me.

I'd either sell the Volt and move into a vehicle without those battery concerns (like a hybrid), or keep the 2017 as long as possible.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
wow, great feedback! You’re all thinking long term like me, which I appreciate.

Thanks for the article with the great sourcing chart Steverino. You’re right, GM is the only place to get the exact info needed (Think they’ll respond to an email? Who in the heck would I email?).

Danno and Off Oil make a good point on the potential long term battery issues being the same. I’ve considered this when looking at the Bolt. The thing is that I’d be getting a Bolt brand new with the full 8 years/100k miles of electrical component warranty (whatever it’s called) and 3 year/36,000 mile limited warranty in play. Like my Volt, I’d be looking to move it before the 8 year battery warranty goes, which means I would get the 3-5 years that I typically keep a car for out of the Bolt without the long term issues being a factor on anything other than trade-in/sale value (which is a very important factor that I’ve accounted for in my calculations in potential value). So, I think it’s reasonable to consider the Bolt over a conventional hybrid or more expensive EV.

Off Oil makes a great point about used car prices. Honestly, I’ve done some pretty detailed calculations on the 3 scenarios (keep the Volt for now, sell/trade and get a ‘22 now, or wait until early next year to look for a ‘23 [with or without tax credit] and sell/trade then) using conservative reasonable assumptions. My calculations are long term/detailed enough that they include my mortgage lol (potential tax credit would provide me more value by being put toward my mortgage instead of the car payment - greater reduction in interest + gained ownership in an asset that retains worth better). I understand the ‘what-if’s’ and the risks…but I still am indecisive lol. That’s why I came for your views on what choice you would make given all the reasonably ‘what-if’s’ and risks, and I appreciate everything that has been provided thus far. Thank you all so much!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
My Volt sounds almost identical to yours. it is a 2017 Premium, 49,500 miles, perfect condition and no problems since I purchased. I plan to trade mine in when the Cadillac Lyric I have ordered arrives. That should probably be in early 2023. I am risking that the resale value of my Volt will drop, but hoping there will be a tax credit available for my new Lyric. I really want the new Ultium battery with rapid DC charging, not to mention all of the other perks of a Cadillac. I have gone through the same mental gyrations as to when to sell my Volt. Good luck with your decision. I hope you time it perfectly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,047 Posts
SELL SELL SELL.

Now is the absolute best time to sell or trade in your old car. I got $17,800 for mine along with a $350 refund for extended warranty. It had 80k miles on the odometer, new tires and wheels and new EGR valve/cooler. I bought it used for $12,800.
They also discounted my new Bolt EUV Premier with a $6300 rebate plus a $500 military rebate. Additionally I saved $1290 in sales tax for trading it back to a dealer. That meant if I had to sell it myself I have to get $19,000 for it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Anyone hearing If used Chevy Volts are going to qualify for the $4,000 used car rebate under new federal law that will become effective 1/1/23 ? Wouldn’t that be nice if our Volts become a little more valuable with this law change.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
22,836 Posts
Anyone hearing If used Chevy Volts are going to qualify for the $4,000 used car rebate under new federal law that will become effective 1/1/23 ? Wouldn’t that be nice if our Volts become a little more valuable with this law change.
GM/Chevy would need to answer this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
MontanaEVNut: Thank you! I wish the best for your sale as well. You have one sweet ride coming your way!

Microvolt: There's the peer pressure I'm looking for lol. It does look like I need to make the decision very soon, doesn't it?

Anyone hearing If used Chevy Volts are going to qualify for the $4,000 used car rebate under new federal law that will become effective 1/1/23 ? Wouldn’t that be nice if our Volts become a little more valuable with this law change.
Because there are no manufacturing or mineral sourcing requirements on the used car side, this can actually be determined through the text of the drafted Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 on pages 387-390. Well, you also need the Internal Revenue code of 1986, title II of the Clean Air Act, and probably a legislator or two to validate your interpretation LOL. Everything looks good for the Volt as far as my interpretation of everything I can find in the aforementioned documents goes, but I can’t verify one requirement in IRC 1986 [section 30D(d)(1)(H) is missing in all the copies I’ve found], and it may be the case that the Volt would have had to have been traded-in/sold to a dealership by the end of the year**. So yeah, the answer is there, it’s just really hard to find.

***The requirement of the "qualified sale" (page 390) being the first transfer since the law went into effect (1/1/23 if passed) makes more sense to me now (strike my last interpretation), but I’m wondering if this means that the dealership has to have acquired it before 1/1/23. If you trade-in or sell your car to a dealership, is that a ‘transfer?’ If so, then the dealership would have had to acquire the car before the law goes into effect for it to be eligible, since them selling it would constitute a second transfer. So then, a Volt would surely pass this eligibility condition if it had been sold/traded-in to a dealership by 12/31. Unfortunately, I have no idea whether the trade-in/selling to a dealership constitutes a “transfer” as written here, so I can’t say whether this condition is still met for EVs sold/traded-in to dealerships after 12/31.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Ok, I found the missing condition of IRC 1986. I couldn’t find it before because it’s not actually there yet lol. It would be an amendment to IRC 1986 as spelled out on page 368 of the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 draft. It’s essentially paperwork that the dealership would have to provide the buyer in order for the “previously owned clean vehicle” to be eligible when sold.
There is another set of conditions that can be met instead of the one that I’ve been considering, but I’m too tired to try to plug the Volt in to that scenario right now (some of the conditions that need to be met are in a different section of IRC 1986).

I found an article that gives us a better idea of what car makers are up against in trying to meet the battery material sourcing and assembly requirements of the tax credit: EV tax credits could stall out on lack of US battery supply
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
182 Posts
Wish this thread had popped up in March while I was grieving the loss of my 2017 Premier with 90k. I could have gotten a very cheap upgrade!!

In your position, I would be inclined to sell (though I am not really passionate about the Bolt).

To play devil's advocate? The Volt is a rare bird, relatively reliable (at least until the 100k area) and becoming ... cool. If they still made them, I'd say sell, but once you're rid of the Volt, you'll miss it. Take it from me ...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Ok, I found the missing condition of IRC 1986. I couldn’t find it before because it’s not actually there yet lol. It would be an amendment to IRC 1986 as spelled out on page 368 of the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 draft. It’s essentially paperwork that the dealership would have to provide the buyer in order for the “previously owned clean vehicle” to be eligible when sold.
There is another set of conditions that can be met instead of the one that I’ve been considering, but I’m too tired to try to plug the Volt in to that scenario right now (some of the conditions that need to be met are in a different section of IRC 1986).

I found an article that gives us a better idea of what car makers are up against in trying to meet the battery material sourcing and assembly requirements of the tax credit: EV tax credits could stall out on lack of US battery supply

Thank you for the reply . Great information . Sure seems like the intent is to make sure the 4,000 rebate is taken once per VIN. I have been in discussions with a local dealer about putting in an order for a 2023 Bolt EUV (no dealer markup) . They offered me 17k trade value for my 2015 Volt Base with 50 K mileage. If the law allows I am sure the dealers would love getting more volts so they can mark them up to the 25k max selling price per the law and then sell them to customers who will get the 4,000 rebate to use as a down payment . End of the day people will get a 21k priced volt. Pretty good price on the used car market . Maybe my 2015 will be worth a little more than 17k. We shall see .
 
1 - 20 of 47 Posts
Top