[Dakster]

Gears fail, chains fail, and belts fail...

Gears or a chain over a belt please. Notice that the change interval for a timing belt is sooner than for a timing chain. BOTH eventually need to get changed.

I wouldn't compare an on road only, lightweight (comparably), non-tow rated, FWD car to a 4WD truck that is going off road or being operated in 4WD.

 

[Upper5Percent]

Gears fail, chains fail, and belts fail...

Gears or a chain over a belt please. Notice that the change interval for a timing belt is sooner than for a timing chain. BOTH eventually need to get changed.

I wouldn't compare an on road only, lightweight (comparably), non-tow rated, FWD car to a 4WD truck that is going off road or being operated in 4WD.

Is that the truth...Toyotas of the 80s were infamous for having timing belts fail...RECOMMENDED replacement no more than 50,000 miles...


http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs119/1111134277991/archive/1113278987022.html

 

[wws]

Is that the truth...Toyotas of the 80s were infamous for having timing belts fail...RECOMMENDED replacement no more than 50,000 miles...[/url]

Belt replacement on my old Porsche is every 30k miles, plus replacing all the rollers and whatnot every 60k miles. Interference engine too, so if it snaps, goodbye valves.

My Suburban has 4wd. Transfer case has been fine over the years. But the actuator in the front diff sticks. I really need to replace it one of these days.

 

[Mister Dave]

another correction, i don't remember exactly, i don't think is says off, i think it says 2wd, 4-hi, 4-low and auto. shows you how much we drive it...... lmao

Sounds more like what I recall (sitting at my desk).

Anybody that don't believe that needs to drive a 1976 eldorado and see how much it jerks back and forth from the slack when you let off the gas and give it gas again.....

Dang, I really wanted one of those old boats, just 'cuz.

 

[Raymondjram]

All my FWD GM vehicles use chain drives in their transmissions. My 1984 Olds Ciera lasted with me 26 years with only the torque converter failure after 22 years of use. The chain drive never failed. My present 21 year old Buick Regal (in my signature) still has the original 3.8 L V6 engine and the 4T60-E transmission with no failures or repairs. Obviously the schedule preventive maintenance must be followed.

GM invented and makes the world's best automatic transmissions. Even Rolls-Royce used them and presently has a license from GM to copy them. Most failures are cause by abusive drivers, not by normal use, as I have proven with my two older GM vehicles. My newer 2009 Equinox has an automatic transmission made by Aisin in Japan (a Toyota company), so if Toyota and other Japanese companies use and trust them, my Equinox should last many more miles and years.

The new 5ET50 EDU for the 2016 Volt is a great technological achievement, since it integrates two electric motors, two clutches (one is for the ICE), planetary gears, output differential, and controller in a small compact package, such that it will be replacing almost all the automatic transmissions in future GM vehicles, and the first example is the 2016 Chevy Malibu Hybrid. I expect to see it used in other 2017 models (except the Bolt EV which has its own advanced design), and upgraded for the trucks and large SUVs. The 2016 Cadillac CT6 PHEV will have the first RWD version of the Voltec drive unit.

 

[turnbowm]

It's interesting that Prius went from chain (Gen. 2) to gear (Gen. 3) while Volt went from gear (Gen. 1) to chain (Gen. 2). Personally, I'll take gear over chain any day!

 

[Even-Steven]

My present 21 year old Buick Regal (in my signature) still has the original 3.8 L V6 engine and the 4T60-E transmission with no failures or repairs. .

Indeed, the 3.8L V6 and 4T60 were bullet proof, GM nailed that combo. few small issues come to mind... ignition coils and some camshaft bearings walked out causing low oil pressure... I had a supercharged grandprix GTP with that setup, sold it at 120K miles, not a single issue... I loved that car. Heads up display, full comfort seat and fast enough... oh yes the good old days.

GM's 5.7L and 4L60 (suburbans) or 4L80 were also great combos.

It's interesting that Prius went from chain (Gen. 2) to gear (Gen. 3) while Volt went from gear (Gen. 1) to chain (Gen. 2). Personally, I'll take gear over chain any day!

Chain = Weight reduction and allows for better fitment in tight areas, you can route a chain around funky curves within the case - with rollers or guides - slim down the case size and shape. For front wheel drive cars often it is a necessity.
If you have a farm tractor with all the room you need and can benefit form the additional weight - then go with gears.

 

[El Dobro]

Toyota went from chain to gear drive to make their trans more compact. Go figure.

 

[wws]

Well, the 440-T4 had its problems. I used to have a '90 Regal (and still have a '90 Reatta) with the 440-T4. The Regal lost a thrust washer at about 75K miles. The 1->2 shift in particular was always 'interesting' in that car. But I continued to drive it for another 200K miles or so and the tranny kept on going until I sold the car. By the time GM upgraded the 440-T4 to the 4T60E, they seem to have found and fixed most of the weak points.

 

[Guest]

What does the Gen 1 use if not chains?

Gen 1 uses gears. Toyota has switched from chain to gears. GM has done the reverse. While they have used chains in the past there was a class action lawsuit on the Vue CVT (chain?)which has me concerned as well.

 

[Mister Dave]

Gen 1 uses gears. Toyota has switched from chain to gears. GM has done the reverse. While they have used chains in the past there was a class action lawsuit on the Vue CVT (chain?)which has me concerned as well.

 

[firehawk618]

How do you feel about it?

View attachment 81650 View attachment 81658

Fine. Manufacturers have been using chains for probably longer than you've been alive in drive units.

 

[MikeyCVolt]

Gear. Chain. They're both metal on metal. I don't see a difference at least conceptually.

Mike

 

[saghost]

Gen 1 uses gears. Toyota has switched from chain to gears. GM has done the reverse. While they have used chains in the past there was a class action lawsuit on the Vue CVT (chain?)which has me concerned as well.

The metal belts used on a traditional CVT are a completely different animal from a final drive chain. The drive chain has teeth that mesh with toothed gears on both ends, while the CVT belt is pinched between the sides of the pulley and has to transfer the torque through shear at the edges.

You can see some of the differences in shape and design by comparing photos from Mr Dave's post # 31 with post #3.

 

[Tomt]

Chains are reliable, efficient and quiet. Not an issue!

 

[El Dobro]

The Volt chain in action.

 

[radarjones]

Similar chains are often used in motorcycle alternator drives....where the alternator is placed BEHIND the engine, to minimize width ( usually runs on one end of the crank)...I've had motorcycle Hy Vo Chains......like that, go for 180,000 miles...here's quite a LOT of torque ( relatively speaking) in a high powered motorcycle engine!!

 

[FI Spyder]

Chains break all the time in regular service. Had one break on my Triumph motorcycle. You hear of them breaking all the time in a timing chain situation. My Dad had one break on his Ford. And that's a chain that doesn't have a lot of tension on it (especially compared to a drive chain). Never heard of a gear breaking unless it has been abused. Gears do wear eventually, especially if they are fiber gears used for noise abaitment reasons. I'll take a gear over a chain any day.

 

[MikeyCVolt]

Gear. Chain. They're both metal on metal. I don't see a difference at least conceptually.

Mike

Actually, now that this thread has awakened, I'll contradict my statement above and say I do see one difference. With gears, you have 2 or maybe 3 gear teeth bearing all the load. With a chain, the torque is distributed to roughly half the teeth on the gear. At least conceptually, I would think a chain would be better for that reason.

Mike

 

[radarjones]

Single row chain, like a cam chain....maybe, you're supposed to replace those at <50K miles??

Hy Vo Chain like the one pictured.......I've opened up a motorcycle engine.....mine, with 240,000 miles on it, to find the hy vo chain was stretched but serviceable....but the rubber/metal chain guide had destroyed itself!!!