What about any regen you used to drive those 50.8 electric miles?Hello all ,
after 2000 mi of battery usage , I am showing avg 5.5 mi per kWh
I owned a fiat 500e that avg 4.4 mi per kwh
I’m hearing Tesla’s run around 4.3
Could it really be that efficient ?
OTOH, the "out" vs "in" proportion is something that's neither changing nor controllable. So the "out" is a valid proxy for "in" unless you think there's electricity evaporating from a puddle in the low spots of the battery housing...I calculate my energy usage based on how much I put IN, not on the display of how much comes OUT, of the battery. Since I pay for what I put in, that's more important to me.
I agree, the OP’s 50.8 electric miles were all battery powered... but what was the "total power out of the battery" that he used to drive those 50.8 electric miles? I suggest it was more than 8.5 kWh.Yes, one can. Whether the miles per kWh going uphill or during acceleration were higher than the m/kWh slowing or going back down doesn't matter. The total miles traveled and the total power out of the battery allow calculation.
Regenerated electricity isn't free. It comes from a loss of altitude and/or velocity either or both of which are obtained by driving upward or speeding up. The 'return' of electric power from regen is from the prior expenditure of energy. The display shows the sum of expenditure and return. Since neither in this instance were obtained from gasoline (see the embedded image in the original post) and presumably not obtained from pushing or towing the Volt, the logical (to me, anyway) conclusion is that the 50.8 miles were all battery powered.
Yes, I want to know how much power the motor used to propel the car those 50.8 ev miles. As you drive, the motor uses grid power from the battery to accelerate and to maintain speed, then some driving condition requires the car to slow, so the car’s kinetic energy is used to crank a generator, slowing the car down and putting power into the battery, and then the motor uses that regen as fuel, too. Efficiency should be a measure of distance driven using both that grid and that regen power. I agree that 8.5 kWh IS the amount of grid power used at that point in time, but "the regeneration power quantity, what ever was accumulated," was also used by the motor to propel the car those 50.8 ev miles. How much total power did the motor use? I don’t think we know how to calculate that number.Do you want total power out of the battery, separate and without the total power regeneration put back into the battery?
It just dawned on me that you might be inquiring how much of grid power was used for motion, "...used to propel the car those 50.8 ev miles..." versus how much grid power was used for other purposes like lights, climate, sound, window operation and such. Is that the question?Yes, I want to know how much power the motor used to propel the car those 50.8 ev miles. ...... How much total power did the motor use? I don’t think we know how to calculate that number.
No, I was asking if it is even possible to determine how much regen was used for propulsion during the trip. I was ignoring the issue of battery power used for motion vs battery power used for other purposes.It just dawned on me that you might be inquiring how much of grid power was used for motion, "...used to propel the car those 50.8 ev miles..." versus how much grid power was used for other purposes like lights, climate, sound, window operation and such. Is that the question?
I think what's being circled around is that regen isn't GENERALLY new power. If it came from slowing down, we had to put power into speeding up in order have velocity to slow down from. If it came from going down the hill, there was driving up the hill to be done to get there. And the power to do those things almost always came from either the wall or the gas tank.I’m not sure why you seem to view regen as "recaptured grid power." If your Volt’s battery is fully depleted, it holds no more usable grid power. Stepping on the brake pedal while driving with a fully depleted battery will put regen into the battery, and driving down a long steep hill while driving with a fully depleted battery may put regen into the battery. That’s not grid power, but it can be used for battery powered driving... and we have no display showing us how much regen was used...
Of course regen is new power. It doesn’t exist until you create it by using the energy of the moving car to do work (crank the generator).I think what's being circled around is that regen isn't GENERALLY new power. If it came from slowing down, we had to put power into speeding up in order have velocity to slow down from. If it came from going down the hill, there was driving up the hill to be done to get there. And the power to do those things almost always came from either the wall or the gas tank.
So all the energy is net of both out and regen. And we only have the net figures.
No, regenerated electric charge is not created, is not new. The battery charge energy increase from regeneration is the partial recovery of preceding battery charge energy decrease that had been converted into kinetic energy (more speed) or potential energy (more altitude). Regeneration is taking that kinetic and/or potential and converting it back into stored electrons. Since the initial battery charge that was converted into kinetic and potential was from the grid, the regenerated electron charge from kinetic and potential also originated from the grid.Of course regen is new power. It doesn’t exist until you create it by using the energy of the moving car to do work (crank the generator).
But any energy so "recovered" is newly created energy. The amount of energy that was previously used to accelerate the car to that given speed hasn’t changed, and now the battery contains an additional amount of energy.
I don't want to expand the OP's post into a liquid fuel conversion into battery energy discussion. Since the OP's post was only using battery, I'd like to keep this simpler by restricting my replies to just battery. Adding liquid fuel energy (charge sustaining or Mountain mode) into this will really muddle things much more.Regenerative braking continues to work after you drive beyond battery range, putting regen into the battery that is then used to drive battery-powered Gas Miles. How do you compare the amount of regen created by slowing down to the amount of gas energy previously used to accelerate the car? Is the portion of the acceleration energy that is later "recovered" as regen greater if the acceleration energy is gas than if it is electricity, or are they both about the same rate of recovery (i.e., does regen improve your gas efficiency more than your electric efficiency)?
Right. But THAT'S WHAT THE OP ASKED ABOUT. The question is "Can the Volt be as efficient as 5.5 miles per KWH?" and the answer is "Yes, it can." Regen is part of that efficiency, not outside it.Ah, it seems you are viewing the Volt’s battery from the "Gallon-equivalent" perspective. Fill it with grid electricity from the wall plug, unplug, and that’s all the electric fuel you have until you next plug into the wall. Once you start driving, you use this grid power, recapture some of it via braking, and use it again, recapture some again, use it again until the amount you pulled from the wall is eventually gone. At the end of the day, the net total pulled out of the battery can’t be any more than the amount put there from the wall.