[Cord]

I still would not go by miles but KWH

full charge using lowest amp setting - test in park with high heater setting and or driving to no battery left and record the KWGH used.

at least test 1/2 full and full and show dealer the numbers

 

[vegascaddy]

I still would not go by miles but KWH

full charge using lowest amp setting - test in park with high heater setting and or driving to no battery left and record the KWGH used.

at least test 1/2 full and full and show dealer the numbers

Here's total KWH used today charged, on 8 amps (lowest setting), driving with AC to no battery left:

 

[Aseras]

I usually see 11.5-12.1. That said, you range is very low. What tires are on the car and what psi? Are they wearing ok?

 

[vegascaddy]

I usually see 11.5-12.1. That said, you range is very low. What tires are on the car and what psi? Are they wearing ok?

My only question is - how would pressure and tires affect charging? Tires are Bridgestone Potenza. Everything normal AFAIK.

 

[hellsop]

Straight up: MULTIPLE PPR NOTICES are NOT NORMAL OPERATION. If the dealership doesn't jump when you say "It sets Propulsion Power Reduced multiple times per week" (or whatever frequency actually happens). then call GM's customer service and get them involved. Most owners of Voltec cars NEVER see that message for its "normal operation" reason: They forgot Mountain Mode when climbing a giant hill at top speed. ALL the other appearances of that message relate to battery problems that a dealership CAN legitimately be involved in fixing. The most benign possible is a 12v replacement, but this is WAY more consistent than that. My guess is shorted cell packs in one module, and they'll have to replace it under the V code warranty.

 

[Norton]

My only question is - how would pressure and tires affect charging? ..

You're correct. Tire pressure shouldn't effect that 11kWh coming from the pack. 11kWh is the issue.

But having your tire pressures all over the place WILL effect the range you get from the 11kWh that your pack is now providing.

Air up your tires correctly. Go +5 psi for a while to see how you and the car like that!
Pay someone to do it if you can't DIY.

Keep a photo log of your pack's number and try to capture the RPP messages also.
Maybe if it stays that low you can get your dealer to take you seriously.

Good luck !

 

[vegascaddy]

I figured out a long time ago how to get infinite range out of the battery.

Please explain!

 

[vegascaddy]

I usually see 11.5-12.1. That said, you range is very low. What tires are on the car and what psi? Are they wearing ok?

Is there somewhere in GMs specs or manuals that the accepted range is 11.5-12.1? Pls advise.

 

[vegascaddy]

Spoke direct to a service mechanic @ the local dealer that owns a Volt and has worked on about 10 ELRs. He basically echoed what many have stated earlier in this thread about the EV range basically being an average computation of miles used based on power consumption over the last several prior drives. Likely cause: lots of AC usage in the last couple months because of the heat. He stated that that the EV range should start to increase once the power consumption decreases. The only thing that doesn't compute is why this didn't occur in the winter months when I used the heater. Perhaps I didn't use it long enough?

Bottom line from the dealer: Without error codes showing up, there's not much for them to do. If there was an issue with the pack, there would be error message indicating this. At least that's what I was told. Also, the mechanic really had no answer as to what an 11.0 reading means when I mentioned that it was too low based on what others have stated.

On a side note, the car, once again, only used 11.0 Kw for a full charge.

Don't know what else to do other than observe and take notes.

 

[scottf200]

Spoke direct to a service mechanic @ the local dealer that owns a Volt and has worked on about 10 ELRs. He basically echoed what many have stated earlier in this thread about the EV range basically being an average computation of miles used based on power consumption over the last several prior drives. Likely cause: lots of AC usage in the last couple months because of the heat. He stated that that the EV range should start to increase once the power consumption decreases. The only thing that doesn't compute is why this didn't occur in the winter months when I used the heater. Perhaps I didn't use it long enough?

Bottom line from the dealer: Without error codes showing up, there's not much for them to do. If there was an issue with the pack, there would be error message indicating this. At least that's what I was told. Also, the mechanic really had no answer as to what an 11.0 reading means when I mentioned that it was too low based on what others have stated.

On a side note, the car, once again, only used 11.0 Kw for a full charge.

Don't know what else to do other than observe and take notes.

hellsop gave you the right advice. You should not be getting the PPR msg regularly.

If you don't want to force this issue then you likely will continue to have problems and they'll get worse. You need to approach this as the PPR msg keep showing up and it should not be regardless of errors. Go to the next level. If you go beyond your VoltTec warranty then you will pay to have to pay for this to be fixed yourself. You cannot say people did not warn you tho. I had a section of my battery replaced when it was getting the PPR msg as one symptom (2011 Volt).

Log the PPRs with date/time/SOC/temp/type of terrain. Show them several examples.

 

[vegascaddy]

hellsop gave you the right advice. You should not be getting the PPR msg regularly.

If you don't want to force this issue then you likely will continue to have problems and they'll get worse. You need to approach this as the PPR msg keep showing up and it should not be regardless of errors. Go to the next level. If you go beyond your VoltTec warranty then you will pay to have to pay for this to be fixed yourself. You cannot say people did not warn you tho. I had a section of my battery replaced when it was getting the PPR msg as one symptom (2011 Volt).

I may have over-emphasized the PPR warnings; since I've had the car since last Dec., I'd say I've had a total of 4 or 5 with majority of those in the last 2-3 months. I had like 2 of them in the last week or so which spooked me. When you say you had a section of your battery replaced, how many PPRs had you been getting? I have a CPO and the Voltec warranty is good for another 4 years/100K miles.

A section from the warranty book:

If it's true that 40% capacity reduction occurs over the warranty period (8 years/100K miles) and the halfway mark is up, could this be the reason why it's only charging up to 26-27 miles ( ~34K mile range less 20% reduction (6.8 miles) = ~ 27 miles)?

Warranty replacement:

 

[Norton]

...I've had a total of 4 or 5 with majority of those in the last 2-3 months. I had like 2 of them in the last week or so which spooked me. .....
A section from the warranty book:
View attachment 155541
If it's true that 40% capacity reduction occurs over the warranty period (8 years/100K miles) and the halfway mark is up, could this be the reason why it's only charging up to 26-27 miles ...

Bummer, the 11kWh that the pack is making available may now be your new reality.
Again, it's not the 26-27 mi. range, it's the 11kWh available from the pack. The 'range' is the result.

So, if that spec has changed suddenly and you're getting repeated PPR message,,,
This is what you have to beat the drum about with your dealer.

Keep a photo log. Keep testing the capacity of the pack. Do you know how to quickly open the camera on your phone?

 

[vegascaddy]

Bummer, the 11kWh that the pack is making available may now be your new reality.
Again, it's not the 26-27 mi. range, it's the 11kWh available from the pack. The 'range' is the result.

So, if that spec has changed suddenly and you're getting repeated PPR message,,,
This is what you have to beat the drum about with your dealer.

Keep a photo log. Keep testing the capacity of the pack. Do you know how to quickly open the camera on your phone?

Thanks. Now I have a better understanding. Question: is there somewhere to reference that the kWh should be higher? That way, I can go back to the dealer and specific information. GM/Cadillac customer service are a waste of time, clueless as to any range.

Turns out my warranty coverage for the battery and any defects doesn't flow over to the CPO and expires the end of this month!

 

[hellsop]

Turns out my warranty coverage for the battery and any defects doesn't flow over to the CPO and expires the end of this month!

Why do you say that? What's on page 11 and 12 of your warranty guide? Disregard the "gradual loss" exemption as the PPR warning is definitely saying That Is Not This.

https://my.gm.com/content/dam/gmown...4/cadillac/elr/2014_cadillac_elr_warranty.pdf

 

[vegascaddy]

Why do you say that? What's on page 11 and 12 of your warranty guide? Disregard the "gradual loss" exemption as the PPR warning is definitely saying That Is Not This.

https://my.gm.com/content/dam/gmown...4/cadillac/elr/2014_cadillac_elr_warranty.pdf

It's confusing; the dealer told me yesterday that my bumper to bumper which includes the battery expires 09-29-18. Here is a printout of all my warranties:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1yg68arlm...r | Cadillac Owner Center | Cadillac.pdf?dl=0

Also - I am being told 11 kWh is too low; do you know where can I confirm what the kWh range is? The dealer and GM were clueless on this.

 

[Norton]

It's confusing;

Also - I am being told 11 kWh is too low; do you know where can I confirm what the kWh range is? The dealer and GM were clueless on this.

That is strange there is no data on what the pack should provide. You need to ask someone in Detroit at HQ.

Isn't the ELR the same as a Gen 1 Volt?
Do they tap more of the available pack capacity?
I know the drive unit can tap more instantaneous power from the pack, than the Volt does,
but the quantity of kWh is the big question here.

Isn't this forum the place to get some answers to this simple question? It will always be a range. Who told you 11kWh is low?
Where are your ELR buddies? Come on guys....

Keep doing whatever driving that makes the PPR msg pop up. Be ready with the camera.
The car does not have to be babied. There should be no driving style required.

Good luck, fight the good fight!

 

[hellsop]

It's confusing; the dealer told me yesterday that my bumper to bumper which includes the battery expires 09-29-18. Here is a printout of all my warranties:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1yg68arlm...r | Cadillac Owner Center | Cadillac.pdf?dl=0

Also - I am being told 11 kWh is too low; do you know where can I confirm what the kWh range is? The dealer and GM were clueless on this.

"The battery" isn't clear enough -- The 12v accessory battery would be reasonably covered by B2B. The traction pack that the vehicle drives with is Voltec Component.

 

[hellsop]

That is strange there is no data on what the pack should provide. You need to ask someone in Detroit at HQ.

Isn't the ELR the same as a Gen 1 Volt?

Not quite. It's the same principle design, but with some component differences and a LOT of programming differences. (The number and scale of the differences triple when you start looking at the performance package in the 2016.)

Do they tap more of the available pack capacity?

They do.

I know the drive unit can tap more instantaneous power from the pack, than the Volt does,
but the quantity of kWh is the big question here.

Isn't this forum the place to get some answers to this simple question? It will always be a range. Who told you 11kWh is low?

Typical usable for a 2014 is about 12.5 kwh. 11 is definitely on the low side. Not actionably low all by itself, but that's not The Problem. That's a side-effect or consequential symptom of The Problem. The Problem is the PPR incidents when PPR is not expected nor normal. Find the cause of the PPR (which is probably something like a weak cell group), and the low kwh output symptom will almost guaranteed vanish as well.

 

[Norton]

...
Typical usable for a 2014 is about 12.5 kwh. 11 is definitely on the low side....
The Problem is the PPR incidents ...
Find the cause of the PPR (which is probably something like a weak cell group), and the low kwh output symptom will almost guaranteed vanish as well.

There you go Caddy. Find this in writing and log those PPR events and demand the dealer deal with it!

 

[jbakerjonathan]

<snip>Typical usable for a 2014 is about 12.5 kwh. <snip>

My 2014 (05/2014 build date) usually switches to CS mode with 10.3-10.8 kWh expended. I think that I may have the 17.1 kWh battery of the 2015, but, I don't see that impacting anything if the software wasn't also changed to what the 2015s have (if there was a change). If the software implements CS mode based on percent of total battery capacity (as measured), then I would expect to see the same cross-over as is seen in the 2015s, if my battery capacity is 17.1 kWh. Your thoughts?