2012 Switches to gas mode with Battery Charge remaining

19427 Views 52 Replies 22 Participants Last post by hellsop, 27 d ago

Paul*

Discussion Starter · Nov 5, 2018

I have a 2012 Chevy volt with 140,000 miles. It has not had any issues until now. The car will switch to gas mode while there is still plenty of charge remaining in the battery (as much as 80%). The temperature is well above freezing. Stopping, shutting of the car off and restarting resolves the issue. I took it to the dealer. however, the computer was not writing any errors codes.

Any ideas what could be causing this?

Reactions: 1

21 - 40 of 53 Posts

jcanoe

· #21 · Jan 18, 2019 (Edited)

4est said:
Ice also warms up the hv battery, if running

How exactly does the ICE warm the HV battery, when running, if the ICE and battery coolant loops are separate? The radiator stack places the battery loop core at the front of the radiator, followed by the electronics core (top) and the Voltec transmission cooling core (bottom), backed by the ICE coolant core. If the radiator was a PB&J sandwich it would be: bread / jelly over peanut butter / more bread. The two sliced of bread are not even next to each other.

4est

· #22 · Jan 18, 2019

I guess you are right.

Ice coolant only warms the cabin

But the same chiller cools both the cabin and the battery, but I think there is a heat exchanger involved somewhere, so the systems remain separated

jcanoe

· #23 · Jan 18, 2019

4est said:
I guess you are right.

Ice coolant only warms the cabin

But the same chiller cools both the cabin and the battery, but I think there is a heat exchanger involved somewhere, so the systems remain separated

Here is an article that provides information on the Volt's cooling/heating: https://gm-volt.com/2010/12/09/the-chevrolet-volt-coolingheating-systems-explained/

RedBowtie03

· #24 · Feb 21, 2019 (Edited)

Just found this thread after starting mine. https://gm-volt.com/forum/showthrea...h-charge-left-in-battery-not-in-Mountain-mode

Add me to the list of people seeing this behavior. @Jiminy, I would love to borrow your VCX-Nano and some brief instructions. I badly want to do the diagnosis myself and shove it in my dealership's Volt Tech's face.

Edit: One difference between my experience and Paul's is its definitely not temperature capped in my case. It's been happening in some form anywhere between 35 and 115 ambient. Yes, I live in hell's furnace.

Jiminy

· #25 · Feb 21, 2019 (Edited)

RedBowtie03,

I think that are in a good position to get a new battery or module under warranty in my opinion. I would always argue for a complete new battery. Anyways, I would take the car back to the dealership and tell them to look at all 96 battery cell groups at the time when the car is just finishing charging. They should all be around 4.07v, plus or minus .01 volt. They should make note of any cell group voltages above all of the other cell groups. Have them print out the voltages for every battery group at this state of charge. They should leave the computer hooked up and go drive or have a porter go drive the car very gently until all of the battery range remaining has been depleted. This means it shows zero range remaining on battery, not just when it kicks over to gas the first time. At that point look at the 96 cell groups again and see which one(s) are significantly below the average cell voltage. It should finish at around 3.55-3.6v per cell group. If there is a bad cell group or groups then there will be a low voltage cell group or groups and this will be enough to get TAC involved. Ask for a print out of Cell Group voltages at the top and bottom of charge. Do not accept no for an answer.

I would do this before either getting my VCX Nano setup or buying your own. They have to verify anything you find anyways so it will be likely cheaper and more time efficient to ask them to do the test first. Now, they may give you the runaround and say they did the test and they cannot give you a printout since their printer is broken, yada, yada, yada. If that happens you will have to get your own proof or find another dealer, assuming the test came back that cell group voltages were OK.

See less See more

VanF

· #26 · Feb 1, 2021

TraVOLTa said:
I have the MyGreenVolt app (free). If the car is off, not plugged in, the battery temp gets very cold. I can't remember exactly, but I believe I have seen the battery at 20 degrees in the past. Given the chance to warm the battery it warms to 50 degrees. I would guess that is the temperature it is happiest at then according to the engineers. I can't remember the top end number, but I know it is at least 70 degrees. I should note, I have a ERDDT defeat switch and have had no problems with the battery being too cold over the past 4 years that I have had the switch installed. Except for my recent temporary, self-correcting glitch you saw on my other post, cold isn't a problem. Eric Belmer (Facebook, over 425k mile Volt), as his battery aged, he gets the message that "Propulsion power reduced" (or something like that) and the engine kicks in to help the battery. We haven't gotten this message, so I don't think we are in the same boat. Different issue. The running of your engine for .03 to .10 gallons is the typical level for warming the engine if it kicks on for any reason. I really like the idea of the hood switch toggling the engine and it stays on to complete the warming cycle, only because there is no error message.

I have the same problem. A scan of battery showed one bad cell and I replaced the battery with correct AMG replacement. The car still moves from Battery to engine and back again seemingly at will?

VanF

· #27 · Feb 1, 2021

RedBowtie03 said:
Just found this thread after starting mine. 2012 Volt switching to CS with charge left in battery -...

Add me to the list of people seeing this behavior. @Jiminy, I would love to borrow your VCX-Nano and some brief instructions. I badly want to do the diagnosis myself and shove it in my dealership's Volt Tech's face.

Edit: One difference between my experience and Paul's is its definitely not temperature capped in my case. It's been happening in some form anywhere between 35 and 115 ambient. Yes, I live in hell's furnace.

outside temp is 31 for low last night and Ice cold wind today at 20mph temp is 41 degrees F.

VanF

· #28 · Feb 1, 2021

Jiminy said:
RedBowtie03,

I think that are in a good position to get a new battery or module under warranty in my opinion. I would always argue for a complete new battery. Anyways, I would take the car back to the dealership and tell them to look at all 96 battery cell groups at the time when the car is just finishing charging. They should all be around 4.07v, plus or minus .01 volt. They should make note of any cell group voltages above all of the other cell groups. Have them print out the voltages for every battery group at this state of charge. They should leave the computer hooked up and go drive or have a porter go drive the car very gently until all of the battery range remaining has been depleted. This means it shows zero range remaining on battery, not just when it kicks over to gas the first time. At that point look at the 96 cell groups again and see which one(s) are significantly below the average cell voltage. It should finish at around 3.55-3.6v per cell group. If there is a bad cell group or groups then there will be a low voltage cell group or groups and this will be enough to get TAC involved. Ask for a print out of Cell Group voltages at the top and bottom of charge. Do not accept no for an answer.

I would do this before either getting my VCX Nano setup or buying your own. They have to verify anything you find anyways so it will be likely cheaper and more time efficient to ask them to do the test first. Now, they may give you the runaround and say they did the test and they cannot give you a printout since their printer is broken, yada, yada, yada. If that happens you will have to get your own proof or find another dealer, assuming the test came back that cell group voltages were OK.

After changing to a new battery, how long before volt resets everything? should I take cable off battery for 30 minutes?

Elethiomel

· #29 · Feb 11, 2021

Hi,

If Volt starts cycling ICE with plenty of charge left on traction battery (and outside temp is not cold), that is usually due to one or more cells in traction battery "sagging". It will not generate any code. Arguably, it is configured that way in order to mask the fact your main battery is failing and force GM to replace it. ECU just "masks" the fact that parts of battery are failing by running ICE to smooth it over.

But if you have time and VCX Nano, you can prove it yourself.

Ryan IL

· #30 · Mar 5, 2021

Paul* said:
Thanks, that is what i am seeing also for temps. I'm monitoring the OBD port with Torque pro. Maybe just a coincidence, but i have never seen the issue after the battery reaches 60 degrees. the Battery temp never gets much above 50 when plugged in and remote started. Once i start driving the battery temp gradually increases. (see graphs on previous page). ii would have thought that it would keep heating the battery up to 70 deg when its plugged in and remote started. But it doesn't seem to start heating until i put the car in drive. I left the car unplugged one night and the battery temp started out in the 30's. The engine ran the entire drive even with 70% SOC

I'm wondering what you found out as the OP. I seem to have this issue, and will scan my battery cells when I have a little time.

VanF

· #31 · Mar 5, 2021

Ryan IL said:
I'm wondering what you found out as the OP. I seem to have this issue, and will scan my battery cells when I have a little time.

The best I have found living in the Atlanta area is that temps both in summer and winter bounce up and down as much as 30 degrees in a 24 hour period. I have no clue what the engine does other than run a fan in the summer to help cool batteries. You would think it would, when plugged into house current, also run the AC
to cool the system as the hours charged goes down like it does in the winter.
In winter it is rare to see a morning temp lower than 18 to 20 degrees and may get up to high 50's or low 60's.
The amount of full charge runs 25 to 26 miles at full charge. As outside temps rise so does the battery hours. It is rare to get mine to have a fill charge in low 30's, as in 31 to 34 miles.
Keep the anti-freeze up to the very top not just to the fill line.
Thanks for writing and hope I've helped some.

clublife.peoria

· #32 · Mar 6, 2021

My 2012 was doing exactly this before the traction battery failed. I drove it like this for about a month before the constant PPR and battery codes started setting, I even reset the codes just to have more codes come back the next day.

I ended up going for a GM remanufactured traction battery to resolve.

VanF

· #33 · Mar 6, 2021

clublife.peoria said:
My 2012 was doing exactly this before the traction battery failed. I drove it like this for about a month before the constant PPR and battery codes started setting, I even reset the codes just to have more codes come back the next day.

I ended up going for a GM remanufactured traction battery to resolve.

clublife.peoria said:
My 2012 was doing this before the traction battery failed. I drove it like this for about a month before the constant PPR and battery codes started setting, I even reset the codes just to have more codes come back the next day.

I ended up going for a GM remanufactured traction battery to resolve.

I hope I don't have to replace anything. My warranty has expired. I have replaced the 12 volt battery that is in the trunk. It really seems to be doing better as it is warmer and I keep it charged al the time. This all started happening when I went two weeks without charging it because I had moved and need electrical work done.

Ryan IL

· #34 · Mar 7, 2021

Elethiomel said:
Hi,

If Volt starts cycling ICE with plenty of charge left on traction battery (and outside temp is not cold), that is usually due to one or more cells in traction battery "sagging". It will not generate any code.

But if you have time and VCX Nano, you can prove it yourself.

clublife.peoria said:
My 2012 was doing exactly this before the traction battery failed.

I have no codes, and just checked my full-charge voltages with VX Nano: 4.06 across the board, with just a few 4.07 values. I'm just in Galesburg by the way.

VanF

· #35 · Mar 7, 2021

Ryan IL said:
I have no codes, and just checked my full-charge voltages with VX Nano: 4.06 across the board, with just a few 4.07 values. I'm just in Galesburg by the way.

I too have zero codes and and today was a low of 39 and a high of 54 degrees. I drove to get some fast food and 4 or 5 minutes in route it changed from Battery to Gas. I was idling in line for a burger when Battery came back on so it's heating problem I think. I'm just an everyday older guy and don't have all the things you guys speak about using and I wouldn't know how to use them if I had them. My Volt is 8 years old and I have a little over 130K miles so I have no warranty.
I think it is also a charging problem as it has has a charge of 24 every day for a while and as weather is better
it is working up to 27 miles now.
I think all this should be under warranty!

Reicaden2

· #36 · Apr 12, 2021

Jiminy said:
I know you probably don't want to hear this Paul but you likely have a bad cell group in your battery. Just one. I had the exact same symptoms and the local Chevy dealer had the car plenty of time and never found the issue. There are no codes. The way I found it is to first buy a VCX Nano and get it running. It runs a Windows XP virtual machine (VM) on your laptop to allow the use of the factory GM GDS 2 software. After I got the GDS 2 working (It took me a while to wrap my brain around how the program was run on the VM), I was able to get in and scan the car's battery control module. When the car was hot off of the charger each of the 96 cell groups was at 4.07V per group, except one. There are 96 groups. The outlier cell group charged to 4.12v. Hmm, I thought. I set the laptop in the passenger floorboard and then drove the car till the battery was depleted. The weather was warm so the car ran on electricity the whole time, about 24 miles if I remember right. SO, at the bottom of charge, the cell groups were distributed around 3.60v with a variance of about .02v. The outlier cell group (number 2) that overcharged at the top end was down around 3.40v and falling fast! I knew then that my problem was that cell group number 2 was B-A-D. I finally had my answer. I took the car back to my local Chevy dealership to see if TAC saw any interest in my situation (I had 174K) but alas, no, they said I was on my own. The fact that the car showed no error codes with an obviously bad cell group I thought would interest them since they had reflashed my brand new Bolt EV for the Same Exact Thing so that it Would trip a code if there was one bad cell group. A safety issue. Hmm.

When I got confirmation that I was being kicked to the curb (I'm not sore), I decided to swap the battery myself. There's a thread stickied in this section about my swap.

I recommend that you get a VCX-Nano setup. If you don't want to do it or can't I can lend my setup to you. I am interested to see if you have the same thing going on. I think you do.

How much did it cost to replace that battery cell? Mine is doing the exact same behavior, except Temps here at 78 to 90 deg year round (florida) for the most part.... so I don't think it's a temp thing. It ALWAYS kicks in around 6 miles of EV left, then runs for about 0.2miles, then switches back. Turns on again at 4 miles of EV, then turns off again until 0. It's been happening for 5 months

.

So if it a bad cell, how much we talking in repair costs? Cause I may just leave it alone if the cost is not worth it.

VanF

· #37 · Apr 12, 2021

Reicaden2 said:
How much did it cost to replace that battery cell? Mine is doing the exact same behavior, except Temps here at 78 to 90 deg year round (florida) for the most part.... so I don't think it's a temp thing. It ALWAYS kicks in around 6 miles of EV left, then runs for about 0.2miles, then switches back. Turns on again at 4 miles of EV, then turns off again until 0. It's been happening for 5 months .

So if it a bad cell, how much we talking in repair costs? Cause I may just leave it alone if the cost is not worth it.

Hay; My problem seems solved and was not a bad cell in the big battery. It was a bad cell in the small 12 volt
battery located in the trunk of your car. It is a special battery, AMG or something. Costed $217 at Auto zone.
My car is back to charging to 30 miles. I haven't had any of the problems since.
It takes about a week for all the modules to reset so give it time after you change it out. Auto zone can tell you if the battery is going bad. I never got any bad codes either.
Van

Reactions: 1

hellsop

· #38 · Apr 12, 2021

Reicaden2 said:
How much did it cost to replace that battery cell? Mine is doing the exact same behavior, except Temps here at 78 to 90 deg year round (florida) for the most part.... so I don't think it's a temp thing. It ALWAYS kicks in around 6 miles of EV left, then runs for about 0.2miles, then switches back. Turns on again at 4 miles of EV, then turns off again until 0. It's been happening for 5 months .

So if it a bad cell, how much we talking in repair costs? Cause I may just leave it alone if the cost is not worth it.

Five figures if you do it the easy way. A cell bad enough to stop the car means traction-battery replacement, and since GM isn't doing battery modules anymore, the's the whole thing.

The hard way is doing your own sourcing of battery from salvage and likely your own work because dealerships won't touch it and there's basically no 3rd-party Voltec service techs out there, and even then it's probably going to approach $5k before you're done.

VanF

· #39 · Apr 13, 2021

hellsop said:
Five figures if you do it the easy way. A cell bad enough to stop the car means traction-battery replacement, and since GM isn't doing battery modules anymore, the's the whole thing.

The hard way is doing your own sourcing of battery from salvage and likely your own work because dealerships won't touch it and there's basically no 3rd-party Voltec service techs out there, and even then it's probably going to approach $5k before you're done.

There IS a 3rd party tech service in the Atlanta George area. They buy sell and replace Volt battaries.
I can remember their names but you can google Chevy volt battery replacement and you will find them and overviews on what needs to be done. You can get complete drive replacement batteries for $4500, not the 16 grand some dealers want to charge you. But make sure what is needed and what isn't. All I needed was a 12 volt starter battery located in the trunk of the car. Installed at Auto Zone for $217.00

VanF

· #40 · Jan 27, 2022

Paul* said:
I have a 2012 Chevy volt with 140,000 miles. It has not had any issues until now. The car will switch to gas mode while there is still plenty of charge remaining in the battery (as much as 80%). The temperature is well above freezing. Stopping, shutting of the car off and restarting resolves the issue. I took it to the dealer. however, the computer was not writing any errors codes.

Any ideas what could be causing this?

I have same problem. Zero codes either. Sometimes I get and engine light with no codes for a short time.
Weather below 40 degrees (F) seems to lead to the trouble. Could it be the sensor that controls the Lith. Batt. Temp?

21 - 40 of 53 Posts