Wow, that's shockingly high, especially given the relatively modest capacity battery in the Volt. I wonder whether a higher capacity battery (say, in a Bolt) costs proportionately more.
How did you think about the depreciated value of the car when deciding to invest this much in it?
Interesting that time, more than miles (of which you have remarkably few), is what did your original battery in.
Yeah, I was told it’s time with batteries, like the expiry date on a pack of Duracels. Some chemistry guy could no doubt explain why.
The financial question was How best to spend the next $11k or so? Fix the Volt or buy an $11k used car? Because of our low mileage and the Volt’s otherwise zero faults in the 10 years we’ve owned it, we went with the $11k on the Volt as our better transport decision for the next 10 years. But we may have sent good money after bad... only time will tell.
In my opinion, if the $11k buys a better used vehicle it would be a consideration. Around here, $11k buys a used 1 or 2 owner Volt with high mileage and accident damage, they really are holding their value so I went with the reman option. I can’t seem to find a “perfect” Volt in this price range, no matter how hard I look. They all have some sort of issue, cosmetic/accident/interior at this price range it seems (at least the ones I looked at).
Model: CHEVY VOLT. Request a Part |. Policies |. We stand behind our product and are here to help. WHY BUY FROM NATIONWIDE AUTO RECYCLING?. Parts are intended for use under normal manufacturer's specifications.
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FWIW: Cheaper option would be just to drop a used li-ion with some miles but still has 6month warranty...almost certain the HV battery packs service depts are replacing into gen1s aren't new but refurbed anyways...
Someday....Someday..... I hope we figure out a way to replace the batteries with 2-3-4x the capacity. It can be physically done now, just need it enginerded
To the OP so a car with only 27,000 miles must have set parked for long periods of time. Was it plugged in during those parked times? Did the deterioration of the battery happen because of environmental conditions? Parked in extreme heat or extreme cold? Engineering estimates told us we could expect 6,000 full discharge/charge cycles without experience major battery deterioration, just curious what possibly went wrong with yours besides bad luck. Was it parked with an empty battery for long periods? I’m sure my 2011 with 165,000 miles is approaching that 6,000 charge/discharge cycle count. I’ve had a few quirks and just last week changed the 12V battery for the first time. This seemed to cure the weird ICE running without erdtt message. Just curious what we can do to extend the longevity of these batteries.
The OP here may have been easily swayed into an expensive repair that may not have been required. Perhaps the main contactor assembly or pack heater may have shorted (that is what happened to my 2014). Doubtful the entire pack needed to be replaced, perhaps only the section with a faulty cell or temp sensors. Needless repairs are what many dealerships repair shops count on for revenue. Until more third party repair technicians become knowledgeable in HV vehicle systems, many of us will be at the mercy of manufacturer trained techs and their service departments.
The OP here may have been easily swayed into an expensive repair that may not have been required. Perhaps the main contactor assembly or pack heater may have shorted (that is what happened to my 2014). Doubtful the entire pack needed to be replaced, perhaps only the section with a faulty cell or temp sensors. Needless repairs are what many dealerships repair shops count on for revenue. Until more third party repair technicians become knowledgeable in HV vehicle systems, many of us will be at the mercy of manufacturer trained techs and their service departments.
Yes, I go back to my statement that the Voltec Engineers estimated 6,000 full charge/discharge cycles before serious degradation of the battery. I know that number has been quoted numerous times on this forum.
On reflection, it seems surprising that an entire battery pack needed replacing, rather than a defective cell or other component. It seems like the only scenarios where an entire battery pack would need to be replaced are 1) the whole pack has degraded to the point where, although it's still functional, the range is so much shorter that the owner decides to replace it, 2) the entire pack is damaged somehow, e.g. by catastrophic overheating. Having said that, I don't have any real expertise to bring to bear here, so perhaps I'm mistaken?
To the OP so a car with only 27,000 miles must have set parked for long periods of time. Was it plugged in during those parked times? Did the deterioration of the battery happen because of environmental conditions? Parked in extreme heat or extreme cold? Engineering estimates told us we could expect 6,000 full discharge/charge cycles without experience major battery deterioration, just curious what possibly went wrong with yours besides bad luck. Was it parked with an empty battery for long periods? I’m sure my 2011 with 165,000 miles is approaching that 6,000 charge/discharge cycle count. I’ve had a few quirks and just last week changed the 12V battery for the first time. This seemed to cure the weird ICE running without erdtt message. Just curious what we can do to extend the longevity of these batteries.
We live in a very temperate area of California. No extremes of any kind. The car is garaged. It’s driven typically 5-10 miles on alternate days. It’s plugged in every night though rarely fully discharged, so it needs only a partial charge. It’s normally unplugged the following morning. So it will easily in 10 years have had 2,500- 3,000 charge events, but nothing approaching 6,000. We have a Level 2 (240 volt) charger. It would never sit for long periods plugged in to the charger. It’s had no accidents or any other trauma. In fact it's been a flawless car up until the battery failure.
On reflection, it seems surprising that an entire battery pack needed replacing, rather than a defective cell or other component. It seems like the only scenarios where an entire battery pack would need to be replaced are 1) the whole pack has degraded to the point where, although it's still functional, the range is so much shorter that the owner decides to replace it, 2) the entire pack is damaged somehow, e.g. by catastrophic overheating. Having said that, I don't have any real expertise to bring to bear here, so perhaps I'm mistaken?
I believe Toyota replaces the entire battery pack in the Prius when a cell goes bad. It's likely they do this for a couple of reasons:
It's easier to replace the entire battery pack than disassemble the battery and replace the individual cell(s).
The life of the remaining cells are also unknown and some may be ready to fail. Replacing the entire battery ensures all cells are good.
It is not unusual for the manufacturer to recommend the replacement of an entire component instead of performing a repair on that component. I see nothing unique about this situation.
One of my big problems with this is that it seems that the intrinsic value of the now "bad" pack isn't being factored in appropriately. I mean, if they are selling "remanufactured"/"refurbished" packs for this price, then it stands to reason that the "old" pack at least has a 20-30% of that value in it. Is this being taken into account when pricing such a replacement? If it is, then are they saying that the "actual" value of this service is even higher? It doesn't really matter in any case. This pricing is just not sustainable and will absolutely kill any future these vehicles have if it stays like it is. Sure, the first movers, edge livers, and green lovers may suck it up and pay whatever, but joe schmo dang sure ain't gonna do it. If I was an executive dealing with these vehicles, this would be one of my TOP priorities to get under control. It's ALMOST as important as building out a halfway decent charging network, IMHO.
Thanks for all the posts. Hera are some further thoughts:
1) as my car is no 935, there aren't many older Volts. No one who can say "My battery has lasted for 15 years". I'm the canary in the mine, and many owners of 2011-12's may soon have to deal with the same issues I had.
2) of course those who say I could have done a DIY repair cheaper, or I was fooled by the dealer, etc. may be correct, but miss the point. My experience is what a non-tech person faces when their Volt dies.
3) if my experience is going to be typical, then there is a real problem with landing BEV owners with huge bills after 10 years. If GM thinks this is acceptable, I think the BEV revolution will be more like a revolt.
My thoughts are that when an industry that reclaims Li-ion battery materials develops the "spent" batteries will have some value that can reduce the cost of replacement systems. Until that happens remanufacturing battery packs will have to support the maintenance services. Diagnostics and rebuilding battery packs is not cost efficient if the original design is not engineered to accomodate easy exchange. Another issue is that if a "new" replacement module is inserted into an older pack, how do the modules of different ages interact with each other? Will they work together nicely, or will the older weaker modules start to fail in a cascading manner. Many issues on the back side of battery system engineering.
My thoughts are that when an industry that reclaims Li-ion battery materials develops the "spent" batteries will have some value that can reduce the cost of replacement systems. Until that happens remanufacturing battery packs will have to support the maintenance services. Diagnostics and rebuilding battery packs is not cost efficient if the original design is not engineered to accomodate easy exchange. Another issue is that if a "new" replacement module is inserted into an older pack, how do the modules of different ages interact with each other? Will they work together nicely, or will the older weaker modules start to fail in a cascading manner. Many issues on the back side of battery system engineering.
Having done just this for a friends Prius it's been my experience there are no issues. When her battery "failed" I replaced the weak module and the next weak (as measured by voltage), reassembled it and it continued to operate fine until she sold the vehicle about three years later. At the time of the "failure" the vehicle had approximately 160K and I think she sold it with around 180K.
I too have a 2011 #2760. This has 165,000 on the odometer. I was having a few of these quirks like the engine running when it shouldn’t be. A new 12V battery seems to have solved that. But now this 9 years old Volt gets 22-24 on battery when it’s cold out (Michigan). Today it’s 62 degrees and this morning it got 32 miles. I’ll milk it as long as I can.
I would bet a lot of money that you're right, especially with the low miles on this pack. Yes, calendar time is a factor, but not at 10 years if it's been properly managed. It's unfortunate that OP went through this, but I highly doubt this will be an industry norm... we're still in the infancy of seeing old EVs so the support for them is not great yet. A future battery shop could tear down a pack like this, replace a few faulty cells, sensors etc. for $1000 and you'd be good to go. That greentec website is part of the way there already, beating dealer cost by a huge amount, but is still just a replacement, not a teardown/diagnostic. Imagine if you had to buy a new engine every time it failed, instead replacing the timing chain or whatever. These changes have to be coming, either at dealer or third party support.
As an aside, I recall a Prius thread years ago where the dealer said the pack had to be replaced. The guy pulled it himself (yes, a bit dangerous but he took good precautions) and found all the bus bars were corroded. This was causing a lot of resistance between cells, so the pack didn't work correctly. He removed the bars and soaked & scrubbed them all to remove the corrosion. Then reassembled the pack, and it worked just fine.
Edit: From what I've read, GM's new battery platform (Ultium) looks extremely modular. So hopefully it can identify bad sections that can be replace individually at the dealer. We'll see..
On reflection, it seems surprising that an entire battery pack needed replacing, rather than a defective cell or other component. It seems like the only scenarios where an entire battery pack would need to be replaced are 1) the whole pack has degraded to the point where, although it's still functional, the range is so much shorter that the owner decides to replace it, 2) the entire pack is damaged somehow, e.g. by catastrophic overheating. Having said that, I don't have any real expertise to bring to bear here, so perhaps I'm mistaken?
I would bet a lot of money that you're right, especially with the low miles on this pack. Yes, calendar time is a factor, but not at 10 years if it's been properly managed. It's unfortunate that OP went through this, but I highly doubt this will be an industry norm... we're still in the infancy of seeing old EVs so the support for them is not great yet. A future battery shop could tear down a pack like this, replace a few faulty cells, sensors etc. for $1000 and you'd be good to go. That greentec website is part of the way there already, beating dealer cost by a huge amount, but is still just a replacement, not a teardown/diagnostic. Imagine if you had to buy a new engine every time it failed, instead replacing the timing chain or whatever. These changes have to be coming, either at dealer or third party support.
As an aside, I recall a Prius thread years ago where the dealer said the pack had to be replaced. The guy pulled it himself (yes, a bit dangerous but he took good precautions) and found all the bus bars were corroded. This was causing a lot of resistance between cells, so the pack didn't work correctly. He removed the bars and soaked & scrubbed them all to remove the corrosion. Then reassembled the pack, and it worked just fine.
Edit: From what I've read, GM's new battery platform (Ultium) looks extremely modular. So hopefully it can identify bad sections that can be replace individually at the dealer. We'll see..
“Properly managed” [emoji849][emoji849][emoji849] what is it with you all who are quick to judge, but only with lofty, non-quantifiable terms such as “properly”? The Volt has 10 million lines of code. GM better have battery system logic for each driving condition one could possibly experience on the road.
1.) Driver has no independent control of battery during vehicle operation. Not even EV Hold in a 2011. Power demand and battery management is actually a DEPENDENT variable of the needs of the route based on speed limits, elevation, traffic maneuvers, incline, and accessories run. Modifying your driving style to “baby” your battery is sure to piss off other drivers, make your passengers queasy, and simply allocate the wear and tear on different parts.
2.) There is NOTHING in the scheduled maintenance calendar for the “management” of the battery. Coolant replacement, fluid checks, only the physical stuff. HPCM2, recalls, and other module updates are STRICTLY reactive. Enough people have to report the same problem for engineers to even entertain a patch release.
3.) The dealer does not proactively do anything regarding battery health. If it’s not throwing codes, they’re not dropping the battery. And even then, they’re hesitant to. You don’t know how many times I’ve had my battery dropped for a suspected “air bubble” in the battery coolant.
Any time you can get a full battery replacement, do it. By inverting the argument against it, you make a case for yourself:
“If I didn’t need a whole new battery, then the person receiving my old battery should be getting a good one, right?”
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