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http://www.treehugger.com/public-transportation/2-dutch-cities-convert-entire-bus-fleet-electric.html


Nice to see the Dutch taking a lead and replacing their entire fleet of buses with Electric.
There is movement here in the US with cities like NYC looking into the viability of electric buses and have pilot programs underway. Denver is already using Electric Buses for their shuttle along the16th St. Mall replacing their diesel counterparts, as examples.

So there is movement here, just not whole districts going electric. It will take progressive communities to move the ball forward on Electric transportation. Unfortunately since the new administration is stock with a dinosaur mentality or maybe they're just dinosaurs themselves, either way it will not be driven by Washington. Nice to see movement in the right direction.
 

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Very neat. I'll tell you when Washington DC switched all the inner city buses from Diesel to CNG... wow what a difference it made.
The hot, sweltering summer days where the air wasn't moving used to about kill you with diesel fumes all day.

I bet DC will be looking at electric too in a very short time, for DC. The rest of the country, well that's "flyover" territory right <grin>
 

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This news is fake, or at least very misleading.

The Dutch cities Eindhoven and Helmond did not convert their entire bus fleet to electric. The two adjacent cities operate 42 electric busses that are built by VDL as a pilot. This is less than 5% of their entire fleet of busses, which are still all diesel powered. They set up special charging stations to handle the limited range of the busses, and keep several in reserve in case some run out of juice.
 

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Buses are already "green" methods of transportation.

It is Green In Thought, not in effectiveness of money spent. Like when they spent megabucks putting solar hot water heating on the White House. Proof of Waste, not Wisdom.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
This news is fake, or at least very misleading.

The Dutch cities Eindhoven and Helmond did not convert their entire bus fleet to electric. The two adjacent cities operate 42 electric busses that are built by VDL as a pilot. This is less than 5% of their entire fleet of busses, which are still all diesel powered. They set up special charging stations to handle the limited range of the busses, and keep several in reserve in case some run out of juice.
Regretfully what you say is true. The old adage if it sounds to be good..... After further investigation the VDL company is building 43 electric and 65 diesel buses for the two towns. Far less than 100% far less than 40%. However with the new buses and the retirement of the old it is significantly larger than 5% of their bus fleet. And during the day the percentage will be higher due to fact all electric buses will be deployed while many of the diesel will be held in reserve to fill in the gaps when the electric buses needs to be recharged.
 

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Last week I stayed at the Holiday Inn in Eindhoven with a good view on the main bus terminal. I did not see a single electrical bus, so the news struck me as very odd.

I looked up that Hermes Eindhoven operates some 460 busses, but I could not find the bus count of Helmond. Together with regional busses its probably in the order of 700 busses total. So we are definitely talking about single digit percentage electrical busses.

Unfortunately there is a lot of fake (or very misleading) news, not only for politics but also for alternative energy. In this case it was based on a BS press release that nobody fact-checked.

Still, I do think that electrical busses are technically and economically viable. The CO2 emission per mile is lower than diesel even if the electric generation is not so clean (like in the Netherlands and Germany). Several manufactures and startups are building them. We will see all-electric busses in larger cities. but this might take another 5-10 years.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Buses are already "green" methods of transportation.

It is Green In Thought, not in effectiveness of money spent. Like when they spent megabucks putting solar hot water heating on the White House. Proof of Waste, not Wisdom.
The only reason it was a waste of money was the fact reagan could not grasp the fact that hot water could produce by using the sun. The system worked. The politician who followed Carter did not. One engineer working for the white house said "Hey! That system is working. Why don't you keep it?" recalls mechanical engineer Fred Morse, now of Abengoa Solar, who helped install the original solar panels as director of the solar energy program during the Carter years..

Reagan set the US back 20 years in R&D in renewables as well as all the unnecessary emissions produced by cars and power plants as well as all the new cases of emphysema, heart disease and asthma just to name a few.

But hell, right it was a waste of money. One side note many of the panels used on the White House are still in use today over 35 years after the installation.. How many mechanicals can say the same thing.
 

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The only reason it was a waste of money was the fact reagan could not grasp the fact that hot water could produce by using the sun. The system worked. The politician who followed Carter did not. One engineer working for the white house said "Hey! That system is working. Why don't you keep it?" recalls mechanical engineer Fred Morse, now of Abengoa Solar, who helped install the original solar panels as director of the solar energy program during the Carter years..

Reagan set the US back 20 years in R&D in renewables as well as all the unnecessary emissions produced by cars and power plants as well as all the new cases of emphysema, heart disease and asthma just to name a few.

But hell, right it was a waste of money. One side note many of the panels used on the White House are still in use today over 35 years after the installation.. How many mechanicals can say the same thing.
By 2050, the Carter Solar System will have been the most significant piece of engineering in history, actually surpassing Al Gore's invention of the Internet. It gets more grand every year.

The Carter water panels never paid for themselves. Solar hot water heating is actually expensive to do right, and is not maintenance free. Other than a pool heater, it's never gained popularity even with subsidies.

When some of the roof had to be replaced on the White House, in part because of the water heater, it was decided to save tax dollars and not reinstall the system. It was a pure dollars and cents decision, unlike the original symbolic installation.

The first significant and effective use of solar power for the White House was in 2002 with 167 panels which AFAIK, remains in place.

In 2010 President Obama promised to place 20 to 50 solar panels on the White House. I think it went on line in 2014? I forget.

Bet you didn't even know about the 167 panels, since it wasn't a publicity stunt.
 

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By 2050, the Carter Solar System will have been the most significant piece of engineering in history, actually surpassing Al Gore's invention of the Internet. It gets more grand every year.

The Carter water panels never paid for themselves. Solar hot water heating is actually expensive to do right, and is not maintenance free. Other than a pool heater, it's never gained popularity even with subsidies.

When some of the roof had to be replaced on the White House, in part because of the water heater, it was decided to save tax dollars and not reinstall the system. It was a pure dollars and cents decision, unlike the original symbolic installation.

The first significant and effective use of solar power for the White House was in 2002 with 167 panels which AFAIK, remains in place.

In 2010 President Obama promised to place 20 to 50 solar panels on the White House. I think it went on line in 2014? I forget.

Bet you didn't even know about the 167 panels, since it wasn't a publicity stunt.
Never had a chance for payback they came down on orders of RR . Oh, and they came in on the first 100 days on his administration and it was an executive order by RR. Funny how we forget, he did this while we in throes of double digit inflation. As for the roof being an issue in hindsight RR's administration, thought they needed to cover for the removal. There were Congressional investigation on the removal and there was no roof issues, just RR's hate of Solar. But hey he did say if you seen one tree you've seen them all
By 1986 Reagan's budgets had gutted all the money for R&D for renewables. Now as far as discussions on Solar HW systems we can discuss it. But as for dollars and cents no solar system whether PV or HW will have a payback after 3 years.
 
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