Not very happy right now, because not only is my Volt dead, it's blocking my wife's car in the garage.

I do not like it when the you can't take the car out of park without the 12 battery in good shape.

By the way the 12 charger will not charge the battery enough to charge it up....jump it with another car and it wiill come to life.

mine is being looked at right now... I will post the results.

Jump it from the back with your wifes car.

 

Why would you tow a vehicle to the dealer for what is likely to be a dead 12v battery? Seems like a huge hassle.

 

Why would you tow a vehicle to the dealer for a dead 12v battery? Seems like a huge hassle.

Yes, seems like this may just be a dead 12V battery issue. Jump it and see if that works.

 

I still don't get this 12v battery stuff. I'm thinking it would be a simple matter to have a user bypass to jump from the 16.5kwh main battery!

Emergency battery power Scotty!

 

Simple, but dangerous. One or two hundred kilowatts going through a switch in the user's hands sounds like lawsuit material. A fault could cause an electrical explosion that could kill someone. It's frustrating to have all that electrical energy just inches away and not be able to use it, but I think GM is trying to save lives here, and avoid liability, of course.

 

A flaky 12V battery is a safety issue. It can leave you stranded. In case of an accident when the main contactors disconnect the propulsion battery the 12V AGM battery needs to be able to power the lights, OnStar, maybe even the locks, the seat belt pre-tensioners and the airbags.

 

Prius owners have been living with the 12V vs. 200V battery thing for years.

 

Does anyone know how much current for how long would need to be supplied by a jumper battery in order to start the car?

Of course the answer depends on how much current the 12v battery might draw, but assuming that battery is open, what is the least current required?

In particular, I wonder if a string of 7 to 9 alkaline D cells, supplying through a diode to protect them from the APM, and connected to one of the fused auxiliary 12v ports in the cabin would be able to start the car.

Thanks in advance for any insights.

KNS

 

Nine D cells in series would give you 12 volts, but only about 1 amp short-circuit current, which probably wouldn't be nearly enough. I thought WopOnTour did a jump starting test to give exact numbers last spring, but I can't find a reference to it now. This thread describes one Volt owner's attempts to start his car with a dead battery with a Stanley Simple-Start, which supplies 14.5 volts at 8 amps max. That wasn't enough to start his car. The jumper terminals in front under the hood have an 80-amp fuse, as I recall, probably to cover the draw of the dead battery in addition to the car's electronics. If the Volt's electronics draw as little as a laptop computer, you could expect about 8 amps at 12 volts with the dead battery disconnected, but that is over 70 D cells in series/parallel, so you would be better off with a portable jumper battery, even though they can supply more current than you need.

The Stanley Simple-Start that some have tried might work if you disconnect the dead 12V battery first, but I haven't heard of anyone making it work.

 

The common lead-acid uses a chemical reaction to liberate the electrons, so a very cold temperature actually slows down the reaction. This is also why many ICE owners install a 120VAC battery warmer in their garages that is placed under the battery pack and kept warm all night.

I found a 12V battery replacement on eBay that can supply over 100 amps for a cold start in an ICE vehicle, amd can work with the Volt, too. It uses six large 2.7 volt capacitors (about 300 Farads) in series, and I know that capacitors are not affected by extreme cold since it uses an electrostatic field to hold its charge. I don't have a Volt or cold weather to test this, but I bet someone here will try it out. For the rest, get the battery warmer that can be powered by the external charging system with a little rewiring, or a new extension cord out from the Volt's trunk.

 

I don't doubt there are engineering reasons, but a non-start due to dead battery IN A CAR THAT'S PLUGGED IN (like the OP's), and doesn't even have to crank to come to life, is just "bad form". So much so that I think GM should really do something about it. We know that the 12V battery charges from the higher voltage system to start with, why can't that same charging current flow happen at a time like that when it's needed most?

 

GM did do something about this for the my 13 and newer.

John

 

Hi All, OP here. Obviously I didn't have the car towed in to a dealership for a dead 12V battery. The dead battery was a side-effect of the actual problem, that the car wouldn't move, or turn off. It seemed like my HV battery was dead, even though it was on the EVSE all night. The "battery gauge" was small and grayed-out, but the battery range was still shown as 27 miles. According to OnStar, the car had a charging system failure. But, I had plenty of 12V power--radio, headlights, dashboard, etc. could all come on.

In the 5 hours it took to get a tow truck today, the 12V battery died due to the drain (see "car wouldn't turn off" above)--so I put it on a charger, in order to get it out of Park and onto the flatbed.

It's at the dealer now, but I don't have any more information.

 

I vaguely remembered once that when my shift lever was in reverse like that, the message was what the OP mentioned, initializing....please wait. It was there for awhile. Then, when I switched the reverse back to park, it turned off! And, was able to restart no problem.

 

I was in Park when I got the "Initializing" message. It was gone by the time I tried to shift to Reverse. I tried moving the gear level through its full range of travel with no success. Also tried to shut off/restart many times, unplugging and re-plugging EVSE, etc. Believe me, I was motivated to get the car started and calling OnStar was my last resort. Was no fun sitting in the car with no heat for 20 mins at -10 F while waiting for Roadside Assistance.

 

I take it you didn't happen to call OnStar and ask for any trouble codes. That might have helped.

Also, when the car won't shut down, disconnecting the battery cable for a short time in the back will accomplish that. It will then sometimes clear the trouble and allow the car to start. This happened to me. However it wasn't -10 F, so I was able to work on it a little without suffering frostbite.

 

I take it you didn't happen to call OnStar and ask for any trouble codes. That might have helped.

Like I said above, I did call OnStar:

According to OnStar, the car had a charging system failure.

Also, when the car won't shut down, disconnecting the battery cable for a short time in the back will accomplish that. It will then sometimes clear the trouble and allow the car to start. This happened to me. However it wasn't -10 F, so I was able to work on it a little without suffering frostbite.

Letting the 12V battery drain didn't fix the "no shutdown" problem. And yeah, at -10F I didn't feel like disconnecting the battery on a new car still under warranty. I had enough of that at 0 F the day before on the ICE car.

 

To OP,
May I ask why your EREV sits outside in freezing cold while your wife's ICE car sits in the garage? Of course I'm speculating your wife's car is a regular old ICE car and not a plugin vehicle. Is it a single car garage or a two car garage?

 

Hey everybody, all I'm looking for is a little camaraderie among us Volt owners. I'm not complaining about the car, mainly was just checking to see if others had similar problems in the cold today. Seems that not many were stranded today, that's good news. I'm glad that some of you that had similar-sounding problems in the past found simple solutions, unfortunately none of those worked for me.

As for the guy questioning why my car is outside while my wife's car is in the garage, I'm guessing maybe you aren't married . Ha ha, that's just a little joke. Really, there are 4 reasons why her car is in the garage:

1. We have a 2-car garage but 1/2 of it is filled with my motorcycles.
2. I leave for work before she does. If I were in the garage, I would have to move her car (or the kids' car) to get to work.
3. It's much easier to clean the snow off my Volt than her car (Ford Flex).
4. The Volt is leased and will be returned in 2.5 years. We own the Flex and will drive it until the wheels fall off.

 

Sorry for the issues, Shasta McNasty. Please let us know what the dealer report is. If it makes you feel any better, my brother's brand new SUV (parked outside) would not start yesterday.

In "the old days" when I was growing up, my dad would go out on frigid days and start up the car every so often and let it run a half hour to warm up. Or he would bring the 12V battery in the house. I still do the same. But the Volt I keep inside the garage, plugged in.

 

When I went out to the car and hit the power button, it took about 10 seconds to clear the "Initializing...please wait" message. And, when I shifted into reverse, nothing happened .

I couldn't turn the car off completely, or get it moving either.

Had the same issue earlier. Software/sensor bug which has nothing to do with the temperature. Dealer will upgrade the software and you'll be happily moving again. In my case they needed to reflash all car software components.

 

Anyone see it? The new 12 Volt battery has a backup charge in the battery.

Nice. Another layer of precaution for the car. I may switch out mine. The car always st

 

Doesn't sound like an electric car issue, rather the same old 12 volt battery issue prevalent in all cars. I lived in Alaska - I had to plug in everything, engine block, coolant plug, battery warmers, everything at zero degrees and below to keep the car moving when morning came (gas car back in the 1990s).

 

To me this sounds like the HV contactor disengaged shortly after starting the car.
The similar symptoms were observed before by people who had the delayed charging calendar bug shutdown issue.
For some reason the car's computer becomes unaware that it lost HV power and simply goes into a hung 'zombie' state.

Furthermore I believe others were able to get their car shut off by going in and out of park a few times, often restarting to a normal drivable vehicle.

Please make sure all service bulletins have been applied to your vehicle.

 

The crazy cold took out a lot of cars....I had someone call in saying he had all ICE cars dead this morning, so I think it's safe to say the cold can produce problems across the board.

My garage kept Volt said it was -19F when I got to work yesterday. Unplugged and outside for the day, it was -16F when I left ten hours later. Had the expected ERDTT burns, basically handled the cold like a trooper.

 

I lost my 12V battery power due to stupidity - leaving car in D. After jumpstarting - no problem - I got a " Security Intrusion Alarm" - called OnStar - they looked up the codes - it was throwing all sorts of engine codes and the engine light was on, but the car was running fine. They suggested I have the car looked at within 24 hrs. Garaged the car for 48 hours on charge. Lights and codes all were out as I drove to the dealer. They confirmed car was fine. So I post this in case others get these codes on "wake-up". Don't panic.

I am thinking I need a small in-car booster for dealing with this problem in future.

http://www.amazon.com/Schumacher-SEM-1562A-Charge-Battery-Maintainer/dp/B0009IBJAS/ref=pd_sbs_auto_1

Would this unit do the job for me. At 5 Lbs it seems small enough.

I remain an enormous Volt fan.

peter richards

 

This unit will start an all but dead battery...

http://www.cloreautomotive.com/sku.php?id=262

 

Seems like it would have been easy for GM to make the main battery power up a low 12 volt battery as long as the main battery had plenty of juice.

 

A super capacitor tied into the physical hidden key switch for emergency start would be ideal. Just enough juice to close the HV contactor to enable the APM.

 

Lots of work compared to just not letting the little lady drive it.

 

Shasta Mc,I had the same problem 2 days ago. Drove to food store ok, when I went out Volt would not start. "Initial... please wait " message came on. After waiting about 15 minutes Volt started. Brought Volt to the dealer, no news yet. This had nothing to do with the 12 v battery or the Volt would not have started after 15 minutes. Volt is a 2012 and the temp in NY was about 6. Will let the forum know what they fixed.

 

My Highlander Hybrid was the same thing. It didn't get to the ready state until 5 minutes after it was on in this cold weather.

I don't think this is just a Volt related issue now. On the Highlander Hybrid, you can't drive unless the dash says it's ready.

 

These subzero temps are hard on any car. A good 12V battery really has just enough power to start a car when it's this cold. When you are talking about -10F and below, the oil in the engine is basically sludge unless you are using something like 0W-30 full synthetic. The first couple of minutes the engine is running, it is just barely moving the oil, so you are most likely putting a lot more wear on the engine than normal.

 

My Vette and my Cruze had no problem starting on the same day. The Volt has an issue. The message "initializing please wait" is confusing and has nothing to do with the 12 v battery being cold. When I get it back from the dealer I will know more.