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I think if it were $5K cheaper, which it should have been, they'd sell twice as many. This would help GM carve out its territory in the perhaps soon-to-skyrocket EV space, but they don't seem to think so long term. "Quarterly profits" pretty much summarizes their complete strategy.
 

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"Quarterly profits" pretty much summarizes their complete strategy.
And how does that differ from any other publicly traded company? Tesla plays the quarterly profit game even harder than GM!
 

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I think if it were $5K cheaper, which it should have been, they'd sell twice as many. This would help GM carve out its territory in the perhaps soon-to-skyrocket EV space, but they don't seem to think so long term. "Quarterly profits" pretty much summarizes their complete strategy.
I agree that cutting price would produce more sales, but I think the pricing is right. First the Bolt EV is a unique product at this point, and it's a good value. For people wanting cheap the new Leaf will be on the market soon enough. Second, GM is bumping up against the tax credit limit. Cutting price and losing money in order to run out of tax credits doesn't seem like a good strategy. IOW cutting price by $5K and losing a $7.5K subsidy puts you $2.5K in the hole.
 

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And how does that differ from any other publicly traded company? Tesla plays the quarterly profit game even harder than GM!
I'll name one: Toyota. Their long term thinking took them from a little piss-ant import in the 60's to near global domination, owing in large part to the massive loving embrace they've felt from the United States.

GM still has a significant hearts-and-minds problem in the U.S., and their EV efforts could have been a big part of reversing that, especially in trend-setting California. Instead, they're gaming the tax credits, overpricing their econo-hatch with a big battery entry, and slow playing the whole EV phenomenon. IMO, it will translate to significantly smaller market share in 5 or 10 years, at least in the U.S. The China effect they're counting on right now might or might not happen.
 

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With the MY18 right around the corner, I don't see a MSRP haircut coming on the MY17, but rather either 17% or 20% off cashback sale or a highly subsidized lease this summer...If there is going to be a MSRP haircut should come on the MY18...
 

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I agree that cutting price would produce more sales, but I think the pricing is right. First the Bolt EV is a unique product at this point, and it's a good value. For people wanting cheap the new Leaf will be on the market soon enough. Second, GM is bumping up against the tax credit limit. Cutting price and losing money in order to run out of tax credits doesn't seem like a good strategy. IOW cutting price by $5K and losing a $7.5K subsidy puts you $2.5K in the hole.
Toyota dropped the prices on the Prius when they hit the 200,000 unit sales mark. The tax credit really is going from the taxpayer into GM's corporate coffers. It's really a subsidy to help pay for the R&D needed to get EV programs off the ground and to the market.
 

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I'll name one: Toyota. Their long term thinking took them from a little piss-ant import in the 60's to near global domination, owing in large part to the massive loving embrace they've felt from the United States.
I consider Toyota as the "toilet paper car company". Their cars are as cheap and as disposable as toilet paper. I have seen junkers just for Toyotas! My previous car, a 1995 Buick Regal, is still running under a new owner, and when I did an island wide search for a junked Regal to find some parts, I found only one. I had to use eBay to buy the parts.

Toyota made money and became big by selling millions of cheap and disposable cars, while GM made its money on many long-lasting quality cars. And most of GM cars are running after twenty years or more. That tells you who is the real leader.

All the Volts will be running for over twenty years unless they are crashed.
 

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Raymond, Toyotas may be cheap, but there are thousands being used by taxi companies everywhere. I wonder why.....
Regarding sales, with expanded state sales, Bolt numbers are not encouraging, nor are Volt sales, now that we are in prime car buying weather/months. Prius Prime will probably clean Volt's clock in May and from now on. A recent Motor Trend evaluation is not encouraging, in light of expanded competition hitting the market this year. I hope the '18 Volt has some mid-cycle tech incentives, such as improved range or DC charging. Otherwise sales will remain flat to declining until a replacement appears.
 

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I was experimenting with a few different ways to predict the Bolt EV sales (to estimate them anyway). These numbers are actually very close to the model I programmed based on the anticipated sales per state. In fact, they are a bit higher, which does indicate to me that the rate at which they are selling in the markets where they are available is increasing.

Sadly, the number is significantly lower than the number I was estimating based on the percentage of total plug-in sales that the Bolt EV represented. Oddly, it seems like that percentage is consistent. However, the overall plug-in sales for May 2017 won't be as high as I was predicting based on the increase from the May 2016 sales. I was really hoping that we would continue the trend of increasing plug-in sales, but it looks like we've plateaued... most likely until the Model 3 deliveries start.

Another star of this sales report is the Prius Prime. Again, where were these buyers seven years ago when GM first released what is still a superior Prius Prime? Coincidentally, I actually saw a MY 2010 Volt on the road today. :)
 

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Regarding sales, with expanded state sales, Bolt numbers are not encouraging, nor are Volt sales, now that we are in prime car buying weather/months. Prius Prime will probably clean Volt's clock in May and from now on. A recent Motor Trend evaluation is not encouraging, in light of expanded competition hitting the market this year. I hope the '18 Volt has some mid-cycle tech incentives, such as improved range or DC charging. Otherwise sales will remain flat to declining until a replacement appears.
I don't know that the Prime is going massively to outsell the Volt. It'll outsell it, but the Prime is a cannibal and a pretty easy conversion of a lot of Prius buyers.

Also, I wouldn't yet judge the Bolt's sales. There are hundreds of thousands of reservations by BEV enthusiasts tied up by the Model 3. Only once the production Model 3 is released will people be ready to make a real decision.
 

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Now that they're increasing Bolt lease incentives, the Bolt has a clear pricing advantage over the M3, in fact the leasing rates on it right now are what I expect to be half price of a Tesla M3 lease but we won't know until we know...
 

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The interesting tidbit I heard was that 30% or so of the M3 reservations were from a current tesla owner. If that is true then only 2/3 of the reservations are potential new ev owners. I wonder how many are current leaf or other pev owners? Might mean that the market is fairly small for completely new EV owners.

I think the market is still pretty small for all EV vehicles even with a 200 mile range. I have one but also own other vehicles for towing, hauling and traveling.
 

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Another star of this sales report is the Prius Prime. Again, where were these buyers seven years ago when GM first released what is still a superior Prius Prime? Coincidentally, I actually saw a MY 2010 Volt on the road today. :)
They were exactly where they are now: in love with the Prius badge and will not stray from the flock. Some of them won't even TEST DRIVE a Volt, in case they end up tempted in their hearts and Toyota turns its back and they are damned forevermore.
 

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They were exactly where they are now: in love with the Prius badge and will not stray from the flock. Some of them won't even TEST DRIVE a Volt, in case they end up tempted in their hearts and Toyota turns its back and they are damned forevermore.
Perhaps I'm just younger than most here and obviously know far more younger people than older, I've seen Prius owners do things a little differently...Prius owners were ready to move on from Prius but not the Toyota brand and end up getting other Toyota models...
 

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Another star of this sales report is the Prius Prime. Again, where were these buyers seven years ago when GM first released what is still a superior Prius Prime? Coincidentally, I actually saw a MY 2010 Volt on the road today. :)
It goes to show that it is all about the up front price. The Prime is priced to sell, and the Volt is not.

You can make all the excuses you want about better features, range, performance etc. , but Prime sales are proving once again people are more than happy with less features and range if the price is lower.

You can also make an excuse about the $7500 tax credit make the prices similar, but 7 years of Volt sales have proven that consumers aren't listening.

You can also make the argument about total ownership cost with fuel savings and lower maintenance, but once again, consumers aren't listening.

In the end, up front cost matters the most. If you want to sell more Volts, lower the price.
 

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Another star of this sales report is the Prius Prime. Again, where were these buyers seven years ago when GM first released what is still a superior Prius Prime? Coincidentally, I actually saw a MY 2010 Volt on the road today. :)
It goes to show that it is all about the up front price. The Prime is priced to sell, and the Volt is not.

You can make all the excuses you want about better features, range, performance etc. , but Prime sales are proving once again people are more than happy with less features and range if the price is lower.

You can also make an excuse about the $7500 tax credit make the prices similar, but 7 years of Volt sales have proven that consumers aren't listening.

You can also make the argument about total ownership cost with fuel savings and lower maintenance, but once again, consumers aren't listening.

In the end, up front cost matters the most. If you want to sell more Volts, lower the price.
I'd take a vegas bet that while price is the largest factor, there are several additional factors...To the image conscience a Toyota badge is a step up from the bow tie for the majority ...There's then the fact it's larger car...lastly there are the standard features, the base prime includes auto emergency braking along with other safety features that you'd need to get a C2 equipped premier volt to get the same...
 

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The interesting tidbit I heard was that 30% or so of the M3 reservations were from a current tesla owner. If that is true then only 2/3 of the reservations are potential new ev owners. I wonder how many are current leaf or other pev owners? Might mean that the market is fairly small for completely new EV owners.

I think the market is still pretty small for all EV vehicles even with a 200 mile range. I have one but also own other vehicles for towing, hauling and traveling.
I don't think that is very true as there have only been about 150,000 to 170,000 Tesla sold worldwide. If I can make a guess there is probably only around 100,000 in the states. Only the people in the U.S. can order the Model 3 right now so to even get 25% of the current model 3 orders that means every Tesla owner would have had to buy one.
 

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I don't think that is very true as there have only been about 150,000 to 170,000 Tesla sold worldwide. If I can make a guess there is probably only around 100,000 in the states. Only the people in the U.S. can order the Model 3 right now so to even get 25% of the current model 3 orders that means every Tesla owner would have had to buy one.
Stat was probably "30% of current Tesla owners held M3 reservations"...

You buy a 911, then the Boxster comes out, to do you run to the dealership to buy a lesser car?
 

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They were exactly where they are now: in love with the Prius badge and will not stray from the flock. Some of them won't even TEST DRIVE a Volt, in case they end up tempted in their hearts and Toyota turns its back and they are damned forevermore.
I do think part of it is for some people at least, the US automakers are still under the reliability/durability cloud from the malaise era. My sister and I started with US makes in that era but after having numerous problems ran straight into the waiting arms of Toyonda. I am enough of a car guy for the Volt to have lured me back but my sister is a "car is an appliance" person and has no intention of leaving Toyonda. I think she is closer to the mainstream buyer than I am. Once there are numerous Volts with 200K plus trouble-free miles on them the *perception* of GM's durability/reliability will improve.
 
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