Volt in generator mode versus Prius

[Geronimo]

And even if the reformer could be made practical and affordable, there is still the remaining problems with fuel cells themselves: very bad cold weather performance, expense, expected lifetime, crash performance, etc.

Yes, the Voltec can be powered with any electricity generator, but it seems to me a six-stroke engine is not a big technical stretch (new camshaft ? reprogram the Engine Control Unit ? It's like an Atkinson-Miller engine compared to an Otto - just a few tweaks). For a design just introduced in 2006 (the Velozeta six-stroke engine, of India), perhaps the idea has not spread much yet, but it seems it could easily be applied to an existing, say, 1.4 liter I-4 engine ...

Maybe licensing fees are too high ?

[Rooster]

Maybe...but then again, perhaps progress is being made.

http://www.plugpower.com/technology/...velopment.aspx

Research & Development
Plug Power Research and Development Partners

ExxonMobil
Exxon Mobil Corporation is partnering with QuestAir Technologies, Plug Power Inc. and Ben Gurion University on plans to commercialize an on-vehicle hydrogen production system for use in a fuel cell-powered lift truck application.

The unique technologies under development by ExxonMobil, QuestAir Technologies and Ben Gurion University will convert liquid fuels -- gasoline, diesel, ethanol or biodiesel -- into hydrogen onboard the vehicle where it will be used in a fuel cell power train. Plug Power will integrate the new technologies into its GenDrive fuel cell power systems for lift trucks to drive future commercialization efforts.

The new system will convert liquid hydrocarbons into hydrogen directly on a vehicle without the need for storage, leveraging significant infrastructure, logistics and cost advantages compared to other hydrogen vehicle systems, all while reducing the impact on the environment. The system does not require changes to fuel delivery infrastructure.

[pdt]

Originally Posted by Rooster

Maybe...but then again, perhaps progress is being made.

http://www.plugpower.com/technology/...velopment.aspx

Research & Development
Plug Power Research and Development Partners

ExxonMobil
Exxon Mobil Corporation is partnering with QuestAir Technologies, Plug Power Inc. and Ben Gurion University on plans to commercialize an on-vehicle hydrogen production system for use in a fuel cell-powered lift truck application.

The unique technologies under development by ExxonMobil, QuestAir Technologies and Ben Gurion University will convert liquid fuels -- gasoline, diesel, ethanol or biodiesel -- into hydrogen onboard the vehicle where it will be used in a fuel cell power train. Plug Power will integrate the new technologies into its GenDrive fuel cell power systems for lift trucks to drive future commercialization efforts.

The new system will convert liquid hydrocarbons into hydrogen directly on a vehicle without the need for storage, leveraging significant infrastructure, logistics and cost advantages compared to other hydrogen vehicle systems, all while reducing the impact on the environment. The system does not require changes to fuel delivery infrastructure.

It will be interesting to see what the overall system efficiency and cost is.

[Geronimo]

The French have a saying:
If I had some cheese, I could make a cheese omelette,
if I had some eggs.

If Exxon had a reformer, they could build a gasoline-fueled fuel-cell powered lift truck,
if they had a fuel-cell.

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by Geronimo

The French have a saying:
If I had some cheese, I could make a cheese omelette,
if I had some eggs.

If Exxon had a reformer, they could build a gasoline-fueled fuel-cell powered lift truck,
if they had a fuel-cell.

Don't know if Exxon has one, but ZTEK does.

http://www.ztekcorp.com/hpsr.htm

How about installing these at gas stations. No they are not CO2 free, but the claim is, "ZTEK commercial hydrogen reformers will convert gasoline, natural gas or methanol to hydrogen at 85% efficiency, meaning that 85% of the energy contained in the fuel will be converted into useful hydrogen."

I wonder what the equivalent MPG of using this system with the Chevy Equinox Fuel Cell test vehicle would be? Would this not be more efficient than using an ICE-Genset? That is, do the reforming of gasoline into hydrogen at the gas station, then use a fuel cell in the Volt? Just food for thought/discussion, it would be an interesting first step to making a hydrogen economy a reality?

[WopOnTour]

Originally Posted by dagwood55

George S. Bower: "Actually GM has an extremely sophisticated hybrid transmision (the two-mode). They use it in their hybrid trucks and SUV's and have gotten very little credit for the engineering that went into the tranny."

They get appropriate credit for it. Technically, it's wonderful and many people have said so.

Unfortunately, they choose to market it to people who don't want it.

Well I would have agreed with this a year ago. But the 2-mode pickups (as opposed to the somewhat bloated SUVs) are another story. You can now purchase a pretty basic "stripped down" 2-mode pickup for $38,020 MSRP (or less)

These things get amazing economy for their vehicle category. (I know, I own TWO of them- a pickup AND a Tahoe) However while the Yukon/Tahoe/Escalade versions of the 2-mode are over $10,000 more- the reality is they come standard with a LOT of additional equipment that you would normally pay extra for. Sure the price tag of "loaded to the nuts" SUV isn't for everyone, but I love mine and plan to trade it in on a newer 2010 model in the Spring (it's an 08)

According to "Automotive News" data services, sales of the GM 2-modes have been steadily increasing to the point GM is now #2 in USA hybrid sales.(but still significantly behind Toyota)

WopOnTour

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by WopOnTour

Well I would have agreed with this a year ago. But the 2-mode pickups (as opposed to the somewhat bloated SUVs) are another story. You can now purchase a pretty basic "stripped down" 2-mode pickup for $38,020 MSRP (or less)

These things get amazing economy for their vehicle category. (I know, I own TWO of them- a pickup AND a Tahoe) However while the Yukon/Tahoe/Escalade versions of the 2-mode are over $10,000 more- the reality is they come standard with a LOT of additional equipment that you would normally pay extra for. Sure the price tag of "loaded to the nuts" SUV isn't for everyone, but I love mine and plan to trade it in on a newer 2010 model in the Spring (it's an 08)

According to "Automotive News" data services, sales of the GM 2-modes have been steadily increasing to the point GM is now #2 in USA hybrid sales.(but still significantly behind Toyota)

WopOnTour

So what's the MPG do you get in your Tahoe/Yukon?