Chrysler dismantles electric car plans under Fiat

[Roger881]

Originally Posted by dagwood55

"I honestly wish I knew why the auto industry was so resistant to moving away from oil."

Because there's a LOT of energy available in a kilogram of gas and there's far less energy available in a klogram of battery. And the battery takes either time or amazing kilowatts to recharge. And the combination of gas and standard ICE drivetrain is still very cheap.

You'd think the EREV would somehow break this mold but it's both a BEV and an ICV, so you've got enormous weight, cost and complexity penalties to manage a mere 40 miles electric (if that) and then perhaps as little as 35mpg in charge-sustaining mode (especially likely to be low out on the highway).

By way of comparison, the up-front cost of a Yaris is very low ($13K) and the operating cost is also relatively low.

If you want to break this pattern, you really need a big tax on oil. Of course, that won't just advance the cause of the EV, which will still be fairly expensive and still suffer the same drawbacks it does today. It will also draw people in from the exurbs and encourage them to use whatever mass transit is available (which could be improved if the population density of the area served was increased). An immediate effect would be people seriously looking for carpoolers and making compromises to work out carpools and opportunities to telecommute (although the exurbs still often suffer from crappy telecommunications).

Thanks for your insight but I do have a few problems with the current predictable explanations given as to why alternatively fueled personal transportation is not realistic.

1. The argument that the first generation of products cannot compete with the status quo in terms of pricing, range and vehicle size so lets not modernize. Give me a break. In 1970 the electric calculator couldn't compete with the pencil and slide rule. In fact my grandmother bought my sisters an me one of the first calculators when they first came out. It was bulky, only did basic calculations and cost $300.00. Because we got started, competition grew that in turn fostered better quality calculators and lower prices. If that logic had been used we'd still be using pencils and slide rules today. Start where we are; low range, relatively expensive, lightweight electric cars. There are enough people out there with money who think the earth is going to fry who will happily support phase one of this important modernization. In short time competition will inspire technological advances and cost reductions just like it did for the calculator, PC, cell phone, landline phone service (flat rate long distance, voice mail, caller ID, call forwarding, etc. and recently VOIP).

2. Get the government out of it. The private sector needs to be left alone and the drive to earn profits is all that's necessary to foster better transportation products. I know this sounds great on paper. Under usual conditions I'm all about letting the free market do its thing and everything works out fine however these are not usual conditions. On September 11, 2001 barbaric mass murderers flew hijacked passenger jets into office buildings at the start of a workday. Their objective was to kill the 50,000 people who worked in the World Trade Centers. Due to the grace of God and the heroic actions of the NYPD and the FDNY, many of whom gave their lives to rescue innocent people, the death toll was only 3000, still a staggering number of dead moms, dads and children and the largest act of mass murder on US soil in history. And to add insult to injury later that day we get reports that average people throughout the Middle East erupted in spontaneous jubilation is cities throughout the Arab World dancing their butts off in the streets at the news.

I realize I'm different than most people but after this horrific event I wanted to know why and began a multi-year effort to get the answer to that question. Dan Rather said its because its because they're jealous of America prompting David Letterman to honestly ask you mean to tell me they killed 3,000 Americans because they don't have cable? Some say they want to force America to convert to their religion. President Bush said its because the hate freedom. In fairness I suppose those are all partial reasons but they don't tell the complete story. The real reason Osama Bin Laden killed 3,000 Americans on 9/11/01 is because of our hopeless dependency to oil that leads to an entanglement in parts of the world where the leaders love us (actually our money) but rule over a population who hate America so much they are willing to kill themselves as long as they get to take out some of us in the process. Its about oil and getting off of oil is a national security emergency.

[HyperMiler]

Originally Posted by Texas

Finally, HyperMiler acknowledges that Japan is going to have a huge presence in the market. Notice he now says, "Asian" and not just Korean.

Japanese batteries will have a presence in the market simply because Japanese automakers refuse to use foreign batteries and stick with domestic batteries even if they cost more and are inferior. As to why Japanese automakers will continue to use Japanese batteries that are inferior and cost more than imported batteries, this is Japanese way of long term thinking, and the reason behind why Japanese auto industry is still strong, while the US auto industry went bankrupt.

You see the same thing in other components market, where certain Japanese TV makers continue to use Japanese LCD panels even though Korean panels are better and cheaper, and currently hold the majority of world market share. Complete foreign reliance on certain critical parts even if they are cheaper has a dire consequence down the road, and Japanese understand this very well.

[omnimoeish]

Originally Posted by Roger881

I realize I'm different than most people but after this horrific event I wanted to know why and began a multi-year effort to get the answer to that question. Dan Rather said its because its because they're jealous of America prompting David Letterman to honestly ask you mean to tell me they killed 3,000 Americans because they don't have cable? Some say they want to force America to convert to their religion. President Bush said its because the hate freedom. In fairness I suppose those are all partial reasons but they don't tell the complete story. The real reason Osama Bin Laden killed 3,000 Americans on 9/11/01 is because of our hopeless dependency to oil that leads to an entanglement in parts of the world where the leaders love us (actually our money) but rule over a population who hate America so much they are willing to kill themselves as long as they get to take out some of us in the process. Its about oil and getting off of oil is a national security emergency.

If you are interested in why Osama Bin Laden did what he did. Here's a letter he wrote to America explaining exactly why.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver

The gist of it is that they are protesting America's recognition of Israel, and the military and monetary support we give them, and he wants Palestine back.

The reason America has funded Israel so heavily? Because we want to maintain a foot hold in the middle east to make sure our oil is secure.

[whynotnow]

You moron its just the same old deal get rid of the electric cars and get paid off when are you dumb MF,s going to see that oh mendler hendler whatever your name is wheres the volt in the promised 2010 so called linup hmmmmmm??

did they push it back again AWWWWWW how trajic

[Roger881]

I think part of the problem with modernization is we're expecting maybe unfairly, interests who've invested decades of resources in yesterday's technology to be the very interests who produce the change that will essentially antiquate what they've worked to build for over a half a century. I don't think AT&T would have ever invented Skype. Showing up as a Johnny Come Lately because they have to after Skype is kicking their butts with their own version of video phone service, maybe. I think GM is to be commended for taking a leadership role in EV technology. I respect their heritage in contributing so much to America's security and prosperity in the past as well as their selfless courage to lead America and the world to a new future with innovations that others might see as threats.

[zzyzzx]

Originally Posted by Roger881

I honestly wish I knew why the auto industry was so resistant to moving away from oil.

The auto industry as a whole is resistant to any type of change, or risk.

[omnimoeish]

Part of the reason for the resistance to EVs is that the American auto makers have been barely scraping by for the last several years being suffocated by legacy costs, health care benefits, giant bureaucracies, high cash on the hood pay outs, etc. Ford and GM haven't made a profit in 5 years or something and Chrysler has probably been doing just as bad or worse, they were burning through several billion a month. They just didn't want to spend the time and money to develop a vehicle like that Volt that would cost $40,000 and cost billions just to engineer the first generation. Eventually they basically got pressured into doing it when they had no other aces to play and figured that they were likely going bankrupt no matter what and might as well make a stab at it.