Seriously,


Whoever here would "never buy a foreign car" are only doing US car companies a disservice.


If a large chunk of people think the same way, GM and others will only grow stagnant, as sales continue while innovation ends. Only through a competitive market will any company, foreign or domestic, improve their products.

Research. Pick the best vehicle for your uses and for the money. May the best auto company win!!

(I'm excited about the Volt... I'm also excited about the Aptera, the Venture, the Mitsubishi MiEV, the Smart EV... Hopefully one will be in my garage within 2-3 years!!)

If the competition from other manufacturers drives car design and development, which we all know it does, then I still win.

I will only buy a GM car, and its better due to the competion for buyers like you. Sounds good to me. I will just reward GM's efforts with my money, not anyone else.

I would not want or expect everyone to feel the same way as me. This is America. :)

As far as the Volt is concerned, the more competition, the better. Based on design intent and specs, the Volt will be the best solution for the most people. There will always be room for other niche vehicles.

I used to consider purchases of foreign cars, and have owned a few in my younger days.

Then, in the late 80's, that all changed. At the time, I worked for General Electric in their power generation business. GE is the world leader in power generation, with a successful portfolio of steam turbines, gas turbines, and even jet engine derivative generator sets. Today, they provide wind, solar, nuclear, and fossil plants.

At the time, a memo was circulated from one of GE's Vice Presidents with regards to growing competition. Manufacturers from other parts of the world (mainly Europe) were putting in service shops in the US and agressively selling equipment in our country. And they were having success.

Yet, even though GE was the world's foremost manufacturer of power generation equipment, since WWII, GE had never sold a large steam turbine in Europe. Even though GE had a better price, shorter delivery, better performance, and any combination of these factors, the Europeans would always buy from a European supplier. This was attributed to nationalistic tendancies.

Ever since I have read this letter, and realized we are not dealing with a level playing field (how many US built cars are sold in Japan), I have sworn never to buy a foreign made vehicle, and have held true to that promise.

I don't buy foreign because I strongly believe that we need to keep American jobs and American money in America. Folks here get all worked up about sending all our dollars to the Arabs, but what about all the cash we're sending to China, Korea and Japan? Besides lowering our standard of living here in the States by turning manufacturing jobs into low pay retail jobs, we are also raising the trade deficit higher and higher and we pay this deficit by borrowing money. Those Asian countries are stuck with our ever devaluating dollars and only have one choice, come here and buy up stuff, just like the Arabs are doing.

Fortunately for me, there very few foreign cars I have any interest in. I just don't care for Asian design esthetics at all. I'm not super fond of European looks either. I know I'm an oddity these days, but to me, pretty much everything Toyota and Honda builds got two good whacks with the ugly stick before leaving the factory. So with good choices still available from US companies, why should I buy foreign?

Ask not what your country can do for you; but what you can do for your country. JFK

Its a simple answer.......Buy American!

Ask not what your country can do for you; but what you can do for your country. JFK

Its a simple answer.......Buy American!

Yep. That's why we bought the Honda Odyssey. Great van.

"...how many US built cars are sold in Japan...?" - BillR

Go look at what actually sells in Japan. Then look at the GM catalog. Does GM sell anything with a .66L engine? Do they make a mini-minivan that's nice? I mean top-flight, loaded with accessories nice? No. GM doesn't make anything the Japanese would want. That's why GM doesn't sell any cars in Japan.

Go look at what actually sells in Japan. Then look at the GM catalog. Does GM sell anything with a .66L engine? Do they make a mini-minivan that's nice? I mean top-flight, loaded with accessories nice? No. GM doesn't make anything the Japanese would want. That's why GM doesn't sell any cars in Japan.

Nobody is buying any cars in Japan. Their young people don't think cars are cool, so they don't even buy cars much anymore. Their sales are WAY down and and trending lower all the time. No wonder they need to sell in the US.

Of course, if all you had to choose from are the bland Toyota, Honda designs, I wouldn't be buying one either. Sounds like Japan is sick of their domestic cars' style. :)

This all begs the question..if a car is built in America...is it still foreign?

Toyota and Honda are Japanese companies. Their cars are designed by their employees. I don't know if they are all designed in Japan or not. I would guess Japan has a big say so.

GM, Ford are US companies. Their cars are designed, I would think, in Detroit.

IMO, that's all I need to know to decide if they are "foreign" or not.

"Of course, if all you had to choose from are the bland Toyota, Honda designs, I wouldn't be buying one either." - MetrologyFirst

You're kidding, right? The Rav4 anc CR-V are certainly distinctive. The Prius is distinctive. The Celica was distinctive. The Sienna and Odyssey manage to look very different from the Dodge products. The Malibu looks an awful lot like a Camry (the profile is practically identtical and both are just like an Altima). The Accord manages to look rather different from those two.

The Civic is highly distinctive. The Accord and Civic coupes are extremely attractive cars.

It is nice when cars are built here in the U.S. but what really makes a difference (helping this country) is where the company is located. If it is in the U.S. then that company collects revenues and pays taxes here in the U.S.

Yep. That's why we bought the Honda Odyssey. Great van.

That's what you did for your country? You bought a Japanese mini van?? Maybe on 4th of July you can go get some Sushi and go to an Anime festival.:rolleyes:

Whatever you define as an "American" car company, DO NOT buy a Chevy Volt! It is going to have more foreign content than a stinking Honda Accord. Buying THAT so called "American car" will put more Americans out of work than if you bought the Honda! The battery is made abroad. The tires are made abroad. Half of the electronics are made abroad. Must I go on??? Please, foks, stop the insanity! Salute the stars and stripes and repeat after me, "I WILL NOT BUY NO STINKING CHEVY VOLT!!!"

Hermant,

Its not about US content. Its about keeping GM, the corporation, competitive.

I would think that less expensive production of parts overseas has kept GM competitive considering how hamstrung they are with the labor contracts and benefit costs. If the car was 100% "American made" using American made parts, I agree the car would be better, and more American workers would be working. But how much more would you pay for that car than you are now? 25% more? 50% more? Would you put your money where your mouth is? All I ever read on these forums are people complaining about the cost of the Volt as it is now.

People in this country want more and more, and want to pay less and less for it. That's why Walmart is putting small local stores out of business.

To put it bluntly, if Americans do not buy the Volt, GM will likely go down. People are already not buying their big vehicles (or anyone elses) because of gas concerns. And their good small cars are not bought because of mythical inferiority to the imports.

Everyone rails (correctly) against using past information and experiences to make today's decisions as prejudice. Its funny that these same values don't apply to the car industry. It just goes to show that to most people, when it comes to spending money, everything falls to the wayside, including values.
:(

Whatever you define as an "American" car company, DO NOT buy a Chevy Volt! Please, foks, stop the insanity! Salute the stars and stripes and repeat after me, "I WILL NOT BUY NO STINKING CHEVY VOLT!!!"

If you're not buying a Volt, then why are you wasting your time on a Chevy Volt forum??

If you're not buying a Volt, then why are you wasting your time on a Chevy Volt forum??

We could say that about A LOT of people here. :)

I don't buy foreign because I strongly believe that we need to keep American jobs and American money in America. Folks here get all worked up about sending all our dollars to the Arabs, but what about all the cash we're sending to China, Korea and Japan? Besides lowering our standard of living here in the States by turning manufacturing jobs into low pay retail jobs, we are also raising the trade deficit higher and higher and we pay this deficit by borrowing money. Those Asian countries are stuck with our ever devaluating dollars and only have one choice, come here and buy up stuff, just like the Arabs are doing.

Fortunately for me, there very few foreign cars I have any interest in. I just don't care for Asian design esthetics at all. I'm not super fond of European looks either. I know I'm an oddity these days, but to me, pretty much everything Toyota and Honda builds got two good whacks with the ugly stick before leaving the factory. So with good choices still available from US companies, why should I buy foreign?

I could not agree more with everthing DaV8or had to say. I feel EXACTLY the same way and I was thinking that I must be the only one. It sure feels nice to have a sole mate.

If you're not buying a Volt, then why are you wasting your time on a Chevy Volt forum??

Why should one no longer be welcome in this community just because one doesn't support the Volt? This isn't a fanboy only club, it's an open discussion for or against the Volt, criticizing what it will have, suggesting what it doesn't, discussing competition, etc...

The fact is, much of the Volt is going to be "made in China, assembled in USA", which is something that many Chevy buyers don't like. GM has for years been far inferior to Toyota (until recently), and people still bought from GM because it's an American company and they know their car was built by Americans. Americans are proud to drive American cars.

Now I said all that (in defense of hermant) to say this, the Volt is still a step in a good direction for America. In my mind, it takes two steps forward and one step back. We get off of oil (great!) but we are depending on China for our batteries (bad!). I would still much rather spend less money financing Communism (through battery purchases) than more money I would spend finance terrorism (through oil purchases). The engine and body and assembly will all be done domestically. Chances are that the electric motor will be domestic. The controller will probably be domestically owned, but manufactured in China or elsewhere.

I would really like to see a 100% domestic PHEV, but with our economy how it is, and the auto industry barely hanging on, I don't think it will be possible.

Why should one no longer be welcome in this community just because one doesn't support the Volt? This isn't a fanboy only club, it's an open discussion for or against the Volt, criticizing what it will have, suggesting what it doesn't, discussing competition, etc...

I didn't say he wasn't welcome, just curious as to why he would waste his time coming on a Volt specific forum and then telling everyone not to buy one. It's silly. If one just wants to discuss general green technologies, politics or green/EV cars in general, there are lots of far better sites to go and do that. This is primarily a Volt fan site and critisism of the Volt is welcome and perhaps useful but the overwhelming majority of folks here have genuine interest in seeing it come to market and succeed, so just telling us all not to buy one because it may have Chinese built batteries doesn't mean much. It's kind of like going to the Vatican and telling everyone there to become a ******. Pointless and silly.

He made a point, and you did to, about the Volt not being 100% American content, and while this is true, what other choice do we have? No car or truck sold is 100% American. So not buying the Volt on the basis that it is not 100% American leaves the consumer with the only option being to buy nothing. So again, kind of silly. Trust me, I too would much prefer the Volt to be 100% American, but that is sadly not to be.

That's what you did for your country? You bought a Japanese mini van?? Maybe on 4th of July you can go get some Sushi and go to an Anime festival.:rolleyes:

FYI, the Odyssey is designed, engineered, and built in the US with mostly domestic parts - I'd say that's more American than a Korean built Chevy Aveo or a Belgian built Saturn Astra.

I looked at Chrysler Town and Country - I actually liked it - but the horrible resale killed the deal. Isn't the TC built in Canada anyway? Chevy Uplander is a joke, not even worthy of a test drive. Toyota Sienna, another American minivan, though the resale was decent, felt cheap.

Look, you can't expect Americans (or anyone for that matter) to buy an inferior product simply because its parent company simply happens to be American. I'm not running a charity, I'm trying to make a living.

I'll buy the product that's the best for the buck. Isn't that the real American way?

Whatever happened to hard work and ingenuity? We should reward excellence, not crap workmanship.

If there's an American offering that's actually top in its class (i.e. ipod, Corvette, Ford F150, CTS-V, and _hopefully_ the Volt), then I'd consider it.

Just don't expect us to blindly "buy American" (whatever that means).

I didn't say he wasn't welcome, just curious as to why he would waste his time coming on a Volt specific forum and then telling everyone not to buy one

IMHO, he was simply pointing out the ridiculous nature of "buy products only from US-based companies regardless of where the product is built or designed"

BTW, what do you think of people who say "I only buy Hondas" or "I'll never consider American cars"? To me, that's as dumb as "I only buy American".

IMHO, he was simply pointing out the ridiculous nature of "buy products only from US-based companies regardless of where the product is built or designed"

Perhaps you are right. I went back and read his post again a few times. He said:
Whatever you define as an "American" car company, DO NOT buy a Chevy Volt! It is going to have more foreign content than a stinking Honda Accord. Buying THAT so called "American car" will put more Americans out of work than if you bought the Honda! The battery is made abroad. The tires are made abroad. Half of the electronics are made abroad. Must I go on??? Please, foks, stop the insanity! Salute the stars and stripes and repeat after me, "I WILL NOT BUY NO STINKING CHEVY VOLT!!!"

I don't know this poster because he has only posted four times and he didn't use an emoticon, so I assumed he was truly advocating that no one should buy a Volt because of his estimation of it's eventual domestic content. I now realize that I may have been slow on the uptake and he might have been using sarcasm to make a point. If this is the case then I interpreted this wrong.

I believe that domestic content and assembly is important, but I also believe that keeping the profits from the sales of these vehicles here in the States is very important. So while it's great that at least 71% of your Odyssey is domestic content and it is assembled in the US a good portion of the money still goes over seas. You are correct about the Astra and Aveo, they are not American cars, however in the case of the Aveo, there are no domestic offerings in this class, so it comes down to who I want to give my profits to.

Last I checked there are still 3 major American owned automobile manufacturers and several minor ones. Giving a little home field advantage pays dividends buyond just patriotism. Keeping money domestic, whether it be for domestic electricity vs imported oil or a domestic auto vs a foreign one has value to the domestic economy. To say that you will only consider purchasing domestic products if they superior imported ones, completely dismisses this value. Yes, the domestic products should be similar to the foreign, but you are doing yourself and your country a disservice in the long to hold domestic products to a higher standard than foreign ones. A tie or something close to it is best going to the home team. You can be sure the other consumers around the world are not returning the favor of requiring their domestic products be superior.

All that said, for a long time the American automanufacturers conceded the luxury, small economy, and fuel efficient segments with nobody but themselves to blame. Perhaps they will persevere through this downturn and hopefully emerge leaner and smarter.

a good portion of the money still goes over seas.

That's correct to a certain extent. The money paid to suppliers, to designers, to engineers, and all the assembly line workers stay here. Plus Honda invests money here in the form of Property, Plant, and Equipment.

Also, remember that Japan is one of our most loyal allies. And don't forget that it's in Honda, Toyota, and Japan's best interest to have US prosper; a weak US does not help them a least bit.

I can understand people being reluctant about sending our hard earned money to China or the Middle East, but buying product from our trusted allies like Canada, Japan, Korea, and Germany doesn't bother me.

you are doing yourself and your country a disservice in the long to hold domestic products to a higher standard than foreign ones.

I hold them to an equal standard. Again, I am just an ordinary Joe trying to make a living. I do not have the luxury of using my hard earned money on something that is sub-par. If you do, great. But do not expect all Americans to have that extra cushion.


Perhaps they will persevere through this downturn and hopefully emerge leaner and smarter.

Without competition, there's no incentive to innovate. In an odd way, we owe Toyota for the development of the Volt ;)

I hold them to an equal standard.

So what does this mean? We're discussing the decision to purchase an item, ONE item. Which do you choose? My contention is that if the choices are relatively similar, Americans should buy American products because there is more value yourself and this country in purchasing an American product.


"Perhaps they will persevere through this downturn and hopefully emerge leaner and smarter."

Without competition, there's no incentive to innovate. In an odd way, we owe Toyota for the development of the Volt

I agree that competition helps breed innovation and that Toyota had some part in GM's decision to design the Volt, but I don't see
the relation to my statement that you quoted. I did allude elsewhere to the number of participants in the local auto manufacturing market. That was because the American Auto Manufacturing was referred to in earlier posts as if it were one entity and without competition.

I don't buy foreign cars because as my friends in Japan and South Korea both, say they prefer to support their local companies. If my friends from foreign countries are doing it, then I'm going to protect my companies as well. My next vehicle is either a Chevy, Ford, or Chrysler.

My current vehicles, in order from least troublesome to most troublesome:

1. 2001 Ford F350 Full-size Crew-cab Pickup, Powerstroke diesel
2. 2004 Ford Explorer Eddie Bauer
3. 2006 Subaru Impreza
4. 1998 Chevy Malibu

The F350 has been virtually perfect, and the Explorer is close on it's heels. The Subaru hasn't been bad due to it's own fault, but it's had some bad luck. The Chevy, on the other hand, has seemed to have the most problems; nothing major, but lots of the "few hundred dollar" things that irritate me and keep my mechanic in business.

In the past, I have owned Toyotas and Nissans, and have had problems with some of them that would put them about in the same position as the Chevy. Some have also been as trouble-free as my Fords.

I would love to discover that GM has done a "professional grade" job on the Volt, but I am wary based on my experiences with my Malibu. I'm sure others out there have had the opposite of my experiences, but for me, the Volt is going to be held to a higher standard. It needs to be better than the others, not just as good.

FYI, the Odyssey is designed, engineered, and built in the US with mostly domestic parts - I'd say that's more American than a Korean built Chevy Aveo or a Belgian built Saturn Astra.

I looked at Chrysler Town and Country - I actually liked it - but the horrible resale killed the deal. Isn't the TC built in Canada anyway? Chevy Uplander is a joke, not even worthy of a test drive. Toyota Sienna, another American minivan, though the resale was decent, felt cheap.

Look, you can't expect Americans (or anyone for that matter) to buy an inferior product simply because its parent company simply happens to be American. I'm not running a charity, I'm trying to make a living.

I'll buy the product that's the best for the buck. Isn't that the real American way?

Whatever happened to hard work and ingenuity? We should reward excellence, not crap workmanship.

If there's an American offering that's actually top in its class (i.e. ipod, Corvette, Ford F150, CTS-V, and _hopefully_ the Volt), then I'd consider it.

Just don't expect us to blindly "buy American" (whatever that means).

Bang for the buck shouldn't be the final decision in a purchase. I know what you saying, but supporting our country should come above price. I've seen thousands of people in the midwest lose jobs with them being replaced by low-income service jobs that sell products made in China. The effects of people purchasing solely based on price has drastic effects. I recommend you read up on Humanistic Economics.

My current vehicles, in order from least troublesome to most troublesome:

1. 2001 Ford F350 Full-size Crew-cab Pickup, Powerstroke diesel
2. 2004 Ford Explorer Eddie Bauer
3. 2006 Subaru Impreza
4. 1998 Chevy Malibu


I would love to discover that GM has done a "professional grade" job on the Volt, but I am wary based on my experiences with my Malibu.

While it is perfectly natural to be "warry" based upon your personal history with Chevrolet, it is also completely irrational. A 1998 Chevy Malibu shares very little DNA with a 2011 Chevy Volt. I bought two Oldsmobile Calais back in '86 and '88. They were hideous examples of automotive engineering. While still "warry", in 2002 I purchased a Chevy Silverado. It turned out to easily match (maybe exceed) the reliability of the Honda Accord I traded in.

I first bought a Honda Civic in 1982. I never would have bought Japanese forty years earlier (1942). But twenty six years later (2008), I'm still buying Hondas. The point is, things change over time. All car companies have good and bad years, good and bad models, good and bad maintenance episodes. That's just how it is when you're selling engineered goods. Sometimes you can sell every piece of junk you can shove off the assembly line and sometimes you can't sell a world class gem. It's the nature of the business. Judge every product on it's own merits.

Bang for the buck shouldn't be the final decision in a purchase. I know what you saying, but supporting our country should come above price. I've seen thousands of people in the midwest lose jobs with them being replaced by low-income service jobs that sell products made in China. The effects of people purchasing solely based on price has drastic effects. I recommend you read up on Humanistic Economics.

Not true!

When you buy solely because it is American, when you ignore quality, price, and therfore value, you harm the very Americans you are trying to protect. Competitive market forces drive up quality and drive down price, which improves the value of products. As a result, the ownership experience is improved, total cost is reduced, and your standard of living is raised. With the elevated standard of living, you have more wealth remaining to purchase the next better idea. This is free market capitalism 101. We've fought wars over these principles.

Notice that nowhere in this theory does it say that Americans can't be the ones to produce the higher quality, lower price, improved value products. Sure, we hear excuses about unlevel playing fields or competing with slave labor conditions but they are just that; excuses! Where they have government subsidies, we have federal research grants, tax subsidies, and advanced education. Where they have cheap labor, we have even cheaper robots, and they'll work all night long, with the lights off!

When a young America was faced with fighting off an overpowering, superior British army, we didn't whine about how it was unfair. We changed the rules of engagement, found our advantage and pressed on to victory. When every nation on Earth dumped their refugees on this promising new nation we didn't call it a Lou Dobb's border invasion. We called ourselves the melting pot and found jobs and homes for all that could make the journey. Those folks became your and my grandparents. And when the facists of Nazi Germany used advanced technology from Mercedes and BMW against our lowly biplane air forces, we didn't complain about their unfair advantage. We produced world class monoplanes like the P-51 Mustang and the P-38 Lightning in record time and literally blew them out of the sky.

Come on America, wake up. It seems that we've gotten a little too complacent again. Maybe we're not at war like in the past with guns and airplanes, but surely we are being attacked from all sides. This time it's an economic war. And the enemy has some really good weapons. And like before, the answer isn't to hide behind protectionism and empty rhetoric. We've got to get off our couches, switch off those video games, and start designing the future. That's what I think GM is doing with the Volt. And that's why, despite what some on this forum have said, I'm 100% behind their effort. I believe that the Volt is sheer genius. It is the right vehicle, powered by the right energy, and it WILL be here at the right time. Keep up the good work GM.

Ever since I have read this letter, and realized we are not dealing with a level playing field (how many US built cars are sold in Japan), I have sworn never to buy a foreign made vehicle, and have held true to that promise.

Are you sure? Car companies have been so intertwined since that era that many "domestic" cars are foreign designed or built, and vice-versa. Nissan designs cars in California and manufactures them in the midwest, buying parts form US suppliers, for example. Conversely, many GM products are rebadged or lightly worked over German (Opel), Japanese (Daewoo, Suzuki) or Australian (holden) products.

Put all of the politics aside. The economy is frail and failing fast.
The cash flow to the war and super high gas prices will kill our economy. GM could still go bankrupt in 2009 if gas/food prices rise double to what they are today and people quit buying anything related to a gas powered car and sit at home broke with barely enough money to eat. The Volt could make it if it was here today, but 2011 will be too damn late to inspire a economy in total collapse.

Are you sure? Car companies have been so intertwined since that era that many "domestic" cars are foreign designed or built, and vice-versa. Nissan designs cars in California and manufactures them in the midwest, buying parts form US suppliers, for example. Conversely, many GM products are rebadged or lightly worked over German (Opel), Japanese (Daewoo, Suzuki) or Australian (holden) products.

In the first example this is true for a limited amount of Nissans and in the end the profit for this car along with a certain percentage of the components goes back to Japan. The second example only holds true for three GM products. The Saturn Astra, Chevrolet Aveo and Pontiac G8. The Astra is just a rebadged Opel, but in exchange the Saturn Sky is being sold in Europe as the Opel GT. The Aveo is a Daewoo product from Korea (Daewoo is not a Japanese company) and there is no current Suzuki product in the GM line up. The G8 is a reworked Holden product but it does have an American engine in it. In all these cases, the profit goes back to the USA and not those other countries.

You're right though, it does get blurry on some models more than others.

The Aveo is a Daewoo product from Korea (Daewoo is not a Japanese company)

You're right. I was thinking "asian" but typed "Japanese". *bows* forgiveness please.