Which Presidential Canidate will be the most supportive of the Volt or other electric vehicles? Who supports tax credits, if so how much? Do they support giving big grants to the AutoMaker, or tax breaks to consumers?

This is going to effect all of us, so I thought some good debate was needed.

I suspect all the major candidates "support" renewable energy, but it is a matter of who would implement the best policies to achieve it.

Thus far, venture capital has led the way to the most marketable solutions, balancing the needs of consumers with the capabilities of industry. Tesla and Fisker were the impetus behind the big 3 automakers and the UAW resolving their long-term liability issues and moving forward with a new CAFE standard that leapfrog's Asian and European designs sold in their own markets.

Congress already enacted a new CAFE standard ahead of the 2008 election, and will probably deliver on a national energy policy to foster renewable energy initiatives in all 50 states. With these two policies already delivered, it doesn't matter who is running for president in 2008, but it will be important for a Congress with a 25% approval rating to have passed good energy policies to run on in the fall.

It always seems that capitalism has to show the way, because our federal government was designed to be slow to act. If the federal government had acted on its ethanol bent 2-3 years ago, it would have been disastrous for our food prices in particular, and the economy in general, without reducing greenhouse gas emissions. Let's all count our lucky stars.

Whoever accepts the least amount of campaign cash from oil companies will be the best candidate to promote fuel efficient cars.

Whoever accepts the least amount of campaign cash from oil companies will be the best candidate to promote fuel efficient cars.

New CAFE standards have already been passed, so other than denying waivers to accelerate those timetables, there is nothing for a President to do. Should a president authorize such waivers, the prices for new automobiles for that state will go up enormously, preventing the roll out of those vehicles, as people will just buy an old used car instead, and it will increase prices for vehicles nationally, as automakers waste money developing cars for several different markets, instead of focusing on cars for a single common standard.

With Romney dropping out all three Obama, Clinton and McCain will all support electric vehicles.

When Clinton was in the White House, mass produced EVs existed. After Bush took over, they all were destroyed. Does that give anyone a clue?

When Clinton was in the White House, mass produced EVs existed. After Bush took over, they all were destroyed. Does that give anyone a clue?

You are clueless on this matter! The California and other laws that lead to the demise of the EV1 predate the Bush administration.

Some snark at the SF Chronical was interviewing GM's CEO, and asked why GM doesn't simply design their vehicles to meet the toughest state standards, so as to meet all state standards. GM's CEO gave a cost / logistical answer, but all he really needed to say was this:

1. If you start responding to one state's standards, then you end up reacting to every state's latest standards, and never finish a design.

2. Once you subordinate yourself to one state, then each state is then encouraged to one up the other, and automakers would never keep up. The federal government should resolve the disparate needs of all the states, and provide one standard for all automakers.

You are clueless on this matter! The California and other laws that lead to the demise of the EV1 predate the Bush administration.

That is incorrect. All of the events leading up to the demise of the EVs occured under Bush's watch, including the cave-in by the California Air Resources Board (CARB) of the ZEV mandate.

For example, the General Motors EV1 was made available for lease in Los Angeles in the late 1990's when Clinton was president. Then CARB reversed the ZEV mandate after suits from various automobile makers, the oil industry and "persuason" from the George W. Bush Administration.

Look it up. It's all documented.

That is incorrect. All of the events leading up to the demise of the EVs occured under Bush's watch, including the cave-in by the California Air Resources Board (CARB) of the ZEV mandate.

For example, the General Motors EV1 was made available for lease in Los Angeles in the late 1990's when Clinton was president. Then CARB reversed the ZEV mandate after suits from various automobile makers, the oil industry and "persuason" from the George W. Bush Administration.

Look it up. It's all documented.

It doesn't really matter, because we now have the E-REV configuration with Lithium Ion batteries, which will be far more marketable and useful to car buyers. Why keep reaching back for someone to hang?

I believe the California Air Resources Board will hurt the automotive industry's current efforts to develop alternative energy vehicles by introducing too many standards for automakers to meet. The only effect this will have is to:

1) raise car prices to the point consumers just keep their old ICE vehicles

2) put the auto and oil industries in a position where it makes more sense to fight the mandates, than meet them, as CARB did to kill the EV1.

I hope that (God forbid) if a democrat is elected... after they surrender in the middle east and pull our forces home, that they will direct spending toward making our nation energy independent.

... however, I'm afraid they don't want to make the US better... they want to make us part of the 'global community', and to achieve this, they need to give enough away so that we're no better than any other nation.

The fact is, we are (and always have been) a part of the global community. We can't just lock our doors and become isolated from the rest of the world. Like you, I don't like to see production get transferred to other countries, leaving our citizens without jobs. Our industry, union, and government leaders MUST become much more inventive and allow new technology to grow and florish - creating good paying jobs in this country. Educators and citizens alike must work towards this goal as well, because under-educated workers are a sure way to accelerate jobs to overseas locations.

Democrats are too lazy to work at win-win solutions and too unwilling to compromise with industry, preferring to inflict punishments that only hurt consumers.

The implosion of the housing market was only the first sign that wealth creation in the US is failing to sustain our standard of living, and much harder times are ahead. Dems in their desperation not to look like the problem will only work to make the problems worse, snowballing into a real recession, to which they will prescribe more socialist "cures".

While a Republican would only manage to keep us afloat in the next term, as Bush did through these very trying last two terms, a Democrat would only sink us.

It is in the next term, under a Democrat president, that China, India and the ******s will truely ascend in world strength.

No, actually it is conscientious leaders on BOTH sides of the aisle who will be able to solve these problems. I call them AMERICANS, and there are Americans in both parties. Our leaders need to compromise, rather than polarize, if anything positive will ever be accomplished.

No, actually it is conscientious leaders on BOTH sides of the aisle who will be able to solve these problems. I call them AMERICANS, and there are Americans in both parties. Our leaders need to compromise, rather than polarize, if anything positive will ever be accomplished.

No, it will be private business, run by expert capitalists, who will succeed in a hostile environment, in spite of the best efforts of Democrats to thwart them. These capitalists will first succeed in European markets, where policies are more favorable, building up their capabilities, then they will segue to American markets, as their costs are reduced to make it profitable.

Government can only stay out of the way, or make matters worse.

Rather than use reason and a cooperative attitude, all you obviously want to do is trash Democrats. I'm outta here. Bye.

Rather than use reason and a cooperative attitude, all you obviously want to do is trash Democrats. I'm outta here. Bye.

I've tried reason and a cooperative attitude with Dems, and it cost me everything.

Based on my initial research, both Clinton and Obama have fairly progressive ideas for promoting alternative energy and specifically, the production and purchase of hybrid, PHEV and electric vehicles. Specifically, Hillary Clinton proposes the following:


Hillary's energy plan also calls for a $10,000 tax credit for plug-in hybrids, $2 billion investment in battery research and 100,000 PHEVs in the federal fleet by 2015 (from the autobloggreen story (http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/11/05/hillary-clintons-energy-plan-calls-for-55-mpg-10-000-phev-tax/))

Since updated CAFE was dead until the Democrats took over the Congress and the two Republicans in the whitehouse are old oil execs, I'd say that Democrats have been more likely to push forward toward cars that use less oil.

Private investment is fine as far as it goes, but until the regulation was enacted that encourage the movement toward new types of transportations, the private investment just stayed with the same old thinking. Once new rules were put in place, the past assumptions from the investing class got reworked and the new hybrid/hydrogen/plugin cars started to see the light of day.

Regulation working hand in hand with the private sector is better then waiting and hoping the private sector pulls it's collective head out before we run out of oil.

Maybe Michael Moore can make a movie about our oil problems and propose the hybrid electric car (using biodiesel or ethanol) as the solution. ;) Nah, if Sicko didn't get any changes going to our heath care system (if you want two hours of embarrassment then watch that film) then I guess us Americans are going to have to wait for disaster. Then we will have no other option but to act and act we will. If it's not too late.

Thus, I feel it's the grass roots that will get real change going, not the politicians. Most of them have to worry about their short term reputations in order to survive.

I always find it interesting when someone's political question is "Which candidate will pass more regulation to make sure my pet project gets done?" No one ever seems concerned anymore about whether or not we as a country can afford to do something or whether or not we should do it with tax dollars. The government for many people seems to be the first and only solution to every single problem. CAFE standards and the removal of them did not kill the EV by themselves. No president has any true power to make policy decisions, policy is the domain of the Congress, the president, while he can act as a guide and leader by pointing in a certain direction due to his higher profile than a single member of Congress, is really only a policy enforcer. I wish people would look less towards the government and robbing peter to pay paul and more to themselves and their fellow citizens, we would all be a lot better off.

I think we have people on both extremes. Some say absolutely no government intervention and some that say complete government intervention. I'm more of a middle-of-the-road kind of guy. While the government should not interferer too much with healthy competition and the powers of the free market I feel that in some cases, like something that has to be done all across our nation and coordinated or that needs help to overcome huge disadvantages from an already established market government intervention is required. Thus, I’m for government intervention in helping to solve our massive energy problem. Massive amounts of R&D (getting better every day and much better off then spending all that money on much less pressing issues) are needed and I think, in this case, is more than justified. A no-brainer, if you will. Even an innovative company like Tesla Motors that is funded by a guy with very deep pockets is unlikely to make a big impact in a short amount of time.

You could also argue that it was the government that created the EV1 and the technology that is going into the Volt. That 1.5 Billion in EV funding was a good thing. It was not wasted and represents about a days worth of military spending in Iraq.

I'm more of a middle-of-the-road kind of guy. While the government should not interferer too much with healthy competition and the powers of the free market I feel that in some cases, like something that has to be done all across our nation and coordinated or that needs help to overcome huge disadvantages from an already established market government intervention is required. Thus, I’m for government intervention in helping to solve our massive energy problem.

However, in looking at solutions, especially government ones, we should not ignore the complicity of the government in the creation of the current problems.

However, in looking at solutions, especially government ones, we should not ignore the complicity of the government in the creation of the current problems.

Agreed. Our government needs to be much more open about how it conducts itself and how it can be influenced into making decisions that are not in our country's long term interests (Yes lobbyists, I'm looking at you). However, that's our current system and that's what we have to work with. If we don't have the government on our side - helping to solve our problems we are likely going to have to fight the government every step of the way. Government, friend or foe? I say our government can work hand-in-hand with industry to move in a much more successful direction. In this case away from non-renewables and toward renewables. Away from slash and burn and towards sustainability. These are not complicated paths but are a big change from what we do today.

Agreed. Our government needs to be much more open about how it conducts itself and how it can be influenced into making decisions that are not in our country's long term interests (Yes lobbyists, I'm looking at you). However, that's our current system and that's what we have to work with.

Lobbyists are a fundamental tenet of our constitution. Individuals, organizations and enterprises have the right to redress grievances with the government, which is done through lobbyists. It is no surpise to me that you want to overthrow our government with commie-fascist rule, and just tell everyone what to do.


If we don't have the government on our side - helping to solve our problems we are likely going to have to fight the government every step of the way. Government, friend or foe? I say our government can work hand-in-hand with industry to move in a much more successful direction. In this case away from non-renewables and toward renewables. Away from slash and burn and towards sustainability. These are not complicated paths but are a big change from what we do today.

The 2007 CAFE standards are an example of our government, the unions and our automotive industry working hand in hand. Of course, anything that is win-win-win doesn't work for you, as you prefer to punish anyone and everyone with whom you don't identify.

Lobbyists are a fundamental tenet of our constitution. Individuals, organizations and enterprises have the right to redress grievances with the government, which is done through lobbyists..

Yes very true and I'm sure having 4 pharmicutical lobbyists for every congressmen is exactly what was intended when the constitution was written. No reform is needed. Smooth as silk.



The 2007 CAFE standards are an example of our government, the unions and our automotive industry working hand in hand. Of course, anything that is win-win-win doesn't work for you, as you prefer to punish anyone and everyone with whom you don't identify.


Thank you for agreeing with me again. That's exactly what I said. Government can work hand-in-hand with industry. Hello McFly.


Jason, My new way of dealing with you will be to debate for one or two rounds and then simply say, "Let's Agree to Disagree" or simply:

Jason - LATD

Another example of government using its power to push the market toward an agreeable end.


The addition of a record-breaking 5,244 MW of wind capacity in the United States in 2007 was driven by the federal production tax credit and by renewable energy mandates in 25 states and the District of Columbia. The nation’s wind capacity now totals 16,818 MW, second only to Germany.


http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/story?id=52142

And ofcourse the horrible economic downside of it all


The global wind market was worth an estimated US $36 billion in 2007, accounting for almost half of all investment in new renewable electric and heating capacity. As many as 200,000 people are now employed in the wind industry worldwide.

I always find it interesting when someone's political question is "Which candidate will pass more regulation to make sure my pet project gets done?" No one ever seems concerned anymore about whether or not we as a country can afford to do something or whether or not we should do it with tax dollars. The government for many people seems to be the first and only solution to every single problem. CAFE standards and the removal of them did not kill the EV by themselves. No president has any true power to make policy decisions, policy is the domain of the Congress, the president, while he can act as a guide and leader by pointing in a certain direction due to his higher profile than a single member of Congress, is really only a policy enforcer. I wish people would look less towards the government and robbing peter to pay paul and more to themselves and their fellow citizens, we would all be a lot better off.

I completely agree. Howevery, since everyone else is taking their slirp of the government tit, what's wrong with demanding my tax credits when it will help the EV industry? That's what we're really talking about here.

I completely agree. Howevery, since everyone else is taking their slirp of the government tit, what's wrong with demanding my tax credits when it will help the EV industry? That's what we're really talking about here.

Because then you are a just a lemming and not a person. What's wrong with demanding that the government stop subsidizing oil production, taking money from us that is not necessary to provide the basic functions of government. If we could reduce the tax demand of each citizen by just half, there would be no need for a tax credit to purchase a volt.

No, actually it is conscientious leaders on BOTH sides of the aisle who will be able to solve these problems. I call them AMERICANS, and there are Americans in both parties. Our leaders need to compromise, rather than polarize, if anything positive will ever be accomplished.

Sorry. We're polarized now. Hard party guide lines don't leave much room for maneuvering unless it's on a topic that doesn't matter much. Compromise is a sign of weakness. If a politician compromises there is hell to pay come election time. Each side is now working harder than ever not to work out problems and get the job done, but rather to increase their respective parties numbers in Congress and the House so they can dominate and have it all their way. While this futile struggle goes on, our enemies get stronger, our competition on the world stage gets stronger, we get further into debt thereby making us weaker and the empire crumbles. I think I truly know how the average Roman must have felt 1500 years ago.

Because then you are a just a lemming and not a person. What's wrong with demanding that the government stop subsidizing oil production, taking money from us that is not necessary to provide the basic functions of government. If we could reduce the tax demand of each citizen by just half, there would be no need for a tax credit to purchase a volt.

Hi,

I live in the real world with real problems. Nice to meet you Mr. Lives in Fairyland. A world where buttercup princesses deliver tax relief along with hot chocolate.

Get a grip, you may believe that, but that isn't the world we live in. Every government invests in things that make the country stronger. Sticking our head in the sand and refusing to compete is just lame. I hope some frenchy with attitude takes your job because you were unwilling to even fight for a future.

If you don't have the will to lead the country forward, go play with your tinfoil hat in your basement. I have no respect for cowards.

Hi,

I live in the real world with real problems. Nice to meet you Mr. Lives in Fairyland. A world where buttercup princesses deliver tax relief along with hot chocolate.

Get a grip, you may believe that, but that isn't the world we live in. Every government invests in things that make the country stronger. Sticking our head in the sand and refusing to compete is just lame. I hope some frenchy with attitude takes your job because you were unwilling to even fight for a future.

If you don't have the will to lead the country forward, go play with your tinfoil hat in your basement. I have no respect for cowards.

Hmm... I said nothing about conspiracies, you say I wear a tinfoil hat. The only thing I point out is that things can be done without the government and that doing things just because other people are doing them does not make it right and you call me a coward and say I live in a fairyland.

Here is a link for you: http://www.dictionary.com

and another: http://www.usconstitution.net/
and another: http://www.usconstitution.net/declar.html

Take a moment, learn english, learn the foundations of this country and come back and we'll have a real discussion.

Hmm... I said nothing about conspiracies, you say I wear a tinfoil hat. The only thing I point out is that things can be done without the government and that doing things just because other people are doing them does not make it right and you call me a coward and say I live in a fairyland.

Here is a link for you: http://www.dictionary.com

and another: http://www.usconstitution.net/
and another: http://www.usconstitution.net/declar.html

Take a moment, learn english, learn the foundations of this country and come back and we'll have a real discussion.

And I'm saying that if you think something this big can happen without government help, you live in fairyland. Through out history the big projects and the big changes in society have always been done with the help of government. But you want big bad uncle sam to give back your money so you can bury it under your matress or perhaps give it to the benevolent oil companies.

So tell me, do the oil companies deserve the 18 billion they get in tax breaks? Let me guess "good honest business men that deserve a break".

I think you are afraid of the future and I think you are afraid of change. You live in a web of lies woven for you by people that see you as an ATM for them to withdraw money from.

You want me to come back because you have nothing to say now, just fear, lies and paranoia.

And I'm saying that if you think something this big can happen without government help, you live in fairyland. Through out history the big projects and the big changes in society have always been done with the help of government. But you want big bad uncle sam to give back your money so you can bury it under your matress or perhaps give it to the benevolent oil companies.

Companies are not benevolent unless forced to be by outside circumstances. These outside circumstances can be regulation, consumer outcry, or competition. They are money grubbing profiteers. They will do whatever they can to cut costs and will continue to do so until forced not to. Regulating corporations creates an opportunity for corruption where the richest corporations can pay to have the regulations made in their favor. Regulations create monopolies, there are very few if any, "natural" monopolies. Every true monopoly I've ever seen was created by government regulation. The only true regulation for a company is the dollars of the consumer. When a company stops receiving those dollars, they will do whatever they can to get them back. Competition breeds a healthy market and conscientious consumers keep companies honest.


So tell me, do the oil companies deserve the 18 billion they get in tax breaks? Let me guess "good honest business men that deserve a break".

I don't think they deserve 18billion they get in tax breaks and is a perfect reason why government should be taken out of the equation and another reason I want the government to stop taking my money, they don't tend to spend it wisely or in ways that I deem appropriate.


I think you are afraid of the future and I think you are afraid of change. You live in a web of lies woven for you by people that see you as an ATM for them to withdraw money from.

You want me to come back because you have nothing to say now, just fear, lies and paranoia.

I could say that I am not afraid for the future of this country, but that would not be true. I am afraid that my new born daughter will grow up in a country that is not free. That we will end up broken under tyrannical rule and have to claw our way back out of it. If you are not afraid of this, you either like a yoke around your neck or enjoy forcing your will upon others, or you are perhaps just unable to see through your rose colored glasses the abuse of freedom that occurs every day in this country. The point is, I AM tired of being the ATM for the government to spend excessively and without regard for the consequences of it's actions.

I am afraid that my new born daughter will grow up in a country that is not free. That we will end up broken under tyrannical rule and have to claw our way back out of it. If you are not afraid of this, you either like a yoke around your neck or enjoy forcing your will upon others.

All you have is fear and paranoia.

The founding fathers would be ashamed to call you a fellow country man. People like you were the ones saying "there is no problem with England, just be nice to the king". You ability to bury your head in the sand while your country heads toward distaster is a shame to every American. Rather then following the examples of our brave founding fathers and taking on our problems head on, you shrink from the challenges today and cry in the corner to get your money back. Lead, follow or get out of the way, but don't act like you are anything more then a scourge on the face of a great country.

We deserve better citizens then you.

All you have is fear and paranoia.

The founding fathers would be ashamed to call you a fellow country man. People like you were the ones saying "there is no problem with England, just be nice to the king". You ability to bury your head in the sand while your country heads toward distaster is a shame to every American. Rather then following the examples of our brave founding fathers and taking on our problems head on, you shrink from the challenges today and cry in the corner to get your money back. Lead, follow or get out of the way, but don't act like you are anything more then a scourge on the face of a great country.

We deserve better citizens then you.

Dude, do you understand english? How does anything that I said relate to what you said? I agree with you that the country is headed for disaster, I never said everything was peachy and fine, I never said that oil companies were "good", but I also don't believe that the government is good.

So a simple question for you that you probably won't answer. What would our founding fathers do to avert the current disaster that our country is headed towards? What steps do you think they would take?

If you answer that directly, I will be surprised.

I'd like to think they would acknowledge the issues we face between energy dependance on foriegn oil and climate change and launch a program like the Apollo project to solve our problems.

When they saw the British coming over the hills, they didn't ask how much it would cost to fight them, they just grabbed their guns and ran toward the problem. But, people like you have lost faith with this country. You whine for you taxes to be reduced, because you've checked out on being part of the solution and instead just bitch at every thing anyone is doing to help solve the problem

When that won't work, you stick your head in the sand and proclaim no problem exsists. Just like a coward.

Person 1: "the British are coming, the British are coming"

Person 2: "Don't worry about them, I'm sure the free market will take care of them. And if you raise an army, don't tax me because I don't believe in the British problem."

I'd like to think they would acknowledge the issues we face between energy dependance on foriegn oil and climate change and launch a program like the Apollo project to solve our problems.

When they saw the British coming over the hills, they didn't ask how much it would cost to fight them, they just grabbed their guns and ran toward the problem. But, people like you have lost faith with this country. You whine for you taxes to be reduced, because you've checked out on being part of the solution and instead just bitch at every thing anyone is doing to help solve the problem

When that won't work, you stick your head in the sand and proclaim no problem exsists. Just like a coward.

blacek,
I've been trying to follow this thread, or more specifically, your posts on this thread. Most medications become less effective over time, and I think that you'd be wize to have yours checked.
Just trying to help.
God Bless,
Tag

I'd like to think they would acknowledge the issues we face between energy dependance on foriegn oil and climate change and launch a program like the Apollo project to solve our problems.

When they saw the British coming over the hills, they didn't ask how much it would cost to fight them, they just grabbed their guns and ran toward the problem. But, people like you have lost faith with this country. You whine for you taxes to be reduced, because you've checked out on being part of the solution and instead just bitch at every thing anyone is doing to help solve the problem

When that won't work, you stick your head in the sand and proclaim no problem exsists. Just like a coward.


I believe the founding fathers would have grabbed their muskets again and charged the hills of washington if they were alive when the Apollo program was created.

I guess you think the boston tea party was just a swank event in colonial days. It didn't have anything to do with over taxation at all.

I believe the founding fathers would have grabbed their muskets again and charged the hills of washington if they were alive when the Apollo program was created.


Let me get this straight. You are using the successful Apollo program as an example FOR your argument? <shakes his head>

Let me get this straight. You are using the successful Apollo program as an example FOR your argument? <shakes his head>

I don't think they would have seen it as an endeavor upon which public money should have necessarily been spent. Unless done under the auspices of the navy or armed forces, I'm not sure if I see the constitutional authority to create NASA and fund a civilian space program.

Actually, I think that if we hadn't gotten so complacent as a country, there would have been a second American Revolution in either 1913-15 or 1933-38.

Actually, I think that if we hadn't gotten so complacent as a country, there would have been a second American Revolution in either 1913-15 or 1933-38.

Don't be so surprised if it doesn't happen in one form or another. I've about decided to work enough to not pay uncle sam any more taxes. I'm that pissed.

The waste, the wars, the BS. There are many that are sick of the feds that it isn't worth watching them piss your hard-earned dollars away.

I'm just as angry as the next guy when it comes to wasteful spending like funding trillion dollar wars that support a dying energy resource while not preparing the new one.

However, the great size and strength of our country allows it to invest in vast projects that move society forward in a significant way. The Apollo project is just one such project. The national highway system is another, Damn projects, things that build up the infrastructure of America and even funding WWII.

Some of you might like gather enough money and go live on a fully sustainable farm in the middle of nowhere. Great! Hey, I might just join you some day. However, I also would love to be part of something great. Our county is on the cusp of either doing great things or failing miserably. It's just too interesting right now to head for the hills.

I'm just as angry as the next guy when it comes to wasteful spending like funding trillion dollar wars that support a dying energy resource while not preparing the new one.

However, the great size and strength of our country allows it to invest in vast projects that move society forward in a significant way. The Apollo project is just one such project. The national highway system is another, Damn projects, things that build up the infrastructure of America and even funding WWII.

Some of you might like gather enough money and go live on a fully sustainable farm in the middle of nowhere. Great! Hey, I might just join you some day. However, I also would love to be part of something great. Our county is on the cusp of either doing great things or failing miserably. It's just too interesting right now to head for the hills.

Don't get me wrong, some R&D in energy, medicine, infrastructure, security, etc. is required. However, a $600,000 study in regarding of a Christmas tree lighting is ridiculous. Neil Borts found that one and went nuts. It'd only cost a few bucks to light the damn thing for a decade. There is no excuse for such pork.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. No system is perfect but we have one of the best systems in the world. Could it be significantly improved? Heck yeah! However, there are such powerful fundamentals at work (The freedoms we enjoy, ease of starting up a business, the protection of wealth and property, etc.) that it's well worth the efforts to keep making it better. Woudn't you agree?

Thankfully, this new crazy technology called the Internet is helping to expose ridiculous pork and the silliness that often goes on. I'm guessing this will help quite a bit. Soon there will be HD cameras on everyone's cell phone and everyone will be carrying one, ready to fully document any and every event. It will be harder and harder to hide things. Shootings in North Korea? Heck, will be on CNN in full color and sound that afternoon. Heck, maybe I am just about ready to move out to the woods. ;)

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. No system is perfect but we have one of the best systems in the world. Could it be significantly improved? Heck yeah! However, there are such powerful fundamentals at work (The freedoms we enjoy, ease of starting up a business, the protection of wealth and property, etc.) that it's well worth the efforts to keep making it better. Woudn't you agree?



Agree it's the best the world has got, but I would also suggest we're going the way of the Soviet Union. Bankrupt.

Actually, I think that if we hadn't gotten so complacent as a country, there would have been a second American Revolution in either 1913-15 or 1933-38.
In 1913 when the Fed bought the Gov't, there was a lot of public news vilifying central banks and such, and a lot of negative public sentiment towards the idea. The Warburgs, Rothschilds, Morgans, etc, being quite sharp and intelligent folk, watered down the bill just enough so that it'd pass, and then slowly had it modified over the course of the next 20 or 30 years so that it basically turned into exactly what congress had said they would never ever vote in favor of. Given that it took so many years for the Federal Reserve Act to really go into effect, I'm not surprised that it went by largely unprotested. The public had thought it had been struck down... So of course they weren't paying much attention over the course of the years when it was slowly pieced together under their noses...

The Gold Confiscation Order of '33 though... wow... Granted, it was in the wake of the "Great" depression, which somewhat solidified people's dependence on big government and central banking, but I'm surprised that in 1933 when they came around knocking on doors and confiscating people's gold that the 2nd American revolution didn't break out. Talk about overstepping the powers extended to the government by the constitution... If we didn't overthrow the gov't when that went down, we probably never will.

McCain is the obvious choice here. As to why, it's becasue if Obama or Hillary get their way, nobody will be able to affored a PHEV. We'll be paying so much more in taxes for new welfare benefits, we won't be able to afford cars.

McCain is the obvious choice here. As to why, it's becasue if Obama or Hillary get their way, nobody will be able to affored a PHEV. We'll be paying so much more in taxes for new welfare benefits, we won't be able to afford cars.

If McCain get's his way, we'll all be paying everything for an endless war on terrorism and nobody will be able to afford a PHEV either except the military. Hey maybe McCain will give us all a complimentary one when we are drafted to fight his 100 year war in Iraq.