Be forewarned... this is just an opinion... published in the LA times.



"
T. Boone Pickens' 'clean' secret
Proposition 10 would put California taxpayers on the hook for his natural gas plan.
By Anthony Rubenstein
July 29, 2008
Texas oil billionaire T. Boone Pickens is pushing a national campaign to make the U.S. "energy independent" through wind power and vehicles that run on natural gas. His blitz of TV ads featuring his own down-home voice has picked up a lot of admiring news coverage. To date, Pickens has yet to explain whose dime will pay for this.

Well, Californians can clarify exactly whose dime it will be: Ours. Along with being the country's biggest wind power developer, Pickens owns Clean Energy Fuels Corp., a natural gas fueling station company that is the sole backerof the stealthy Proposition 10 on California's November ballot. This measure would authorize the sale of $5 billion in general fund bonds to provide alternative energy rebates and incentives -- but by the time the principal and the interest is paid off, it would squander at least $9.8 billion in taxpayer money on Pickens' self-serving natural gas agenda.

The initiative deceptively reads like it's supporting all alternative-fuel vehicles and renewable energy sources. But a closer read finds a laundry list of cash grabs -- from $200 million for a liquefied natural gas terminal to $2.5 billion for rebates of up to $50,000 for each natural gas vehicle.

Much of the measure's billions could benefit Pickens' company to the exclusion of almost all other clean-vehicle fuels and technology. Engines that run on compressed natural gas have a place in pollution reduction, especially for heavy trucks and public buses. But natural gas is a nonrenewable fossil fuel that we import from foreign sources, and it is no better (and in some cases worse) when it comes to emissions and fuel efficiency compared with the best hybrid cars or the new ultra-clean diesel engines. Most insidiously, Proposition 10's lavish rebates for natural gas-powered cars and trucks could crowd out superior technologies from taking root in California, the largest transportation market in the United States.

Even worse, private trucking and delivery companies could buy 5,000 natural gas trucks, collect California taxpayer-funded rebates of $200 million or more and immediately send those fleets out of state. There's nothing in Proposition 10 to prevent that. It's like asking California voters to finance a new bridge with taxpayer dollars, without mentioning that the bridge could be in Ohio. "

Click for more:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-rubenstein29-2008jul29,0,4625693.story

Texas is the biggest wind power developer.

See http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/05/17/wind_power/index.html.

It is always good to look deeply into anything that is being done by the government. If citizens do that, resulting polities are much more likely to be fair and reasonable.

This is another reason why we need The Apollo Energy Plan. I keep saying it because it's so important. More so than any one technology we use (or don't use). Without a national effort to help steer infrastructures build-outs in a way that is best for our future, how are we going to avoid major mistakes that only hamper and delay what we all really want? We are allowing companies and special interests make changes that will effect our entire national energy policy. That's just crazy! Yes, we must allow our capitalist system to shine but if we don’t have a great national plan we are only inviting disaster and failure. Here are a few examples of things that might happen:

1) A mandate for hydrogen refueling stations and the shunning of the EV. (sound familiar?).
2) A mandate for massively expanded oil drilling and global exploration. No funding left for alternatives.
3) A mandate for coal-to-gasoline with exclusion of all other alternatives.
4) A mandate for hundreds of new nuclear reactors. McCain would cheer, other's will tear.


I hope people get an idea of what a huge mess this could turn out being. At the very least it will delay needed and effective action. Get good people together and come up with a plan. Use that plan along with our capitalistic system to get it done in a fast and efficient way.

I realize it will take massive pain for the needed changes. However, assuming that pain is coming... What do we do after that? Do we just all go crazy with no plan? Split up into different camps to see what works out and try to fit the pieces together after that?

Why not get a plan going for when the pain comes? Like an emergency response plan? The pain is coming. I think most people can see it in the distance, unless they like to keep their heads in the sand.

Texas is the biggest wind power developer.

See http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/05/17/wind_power/index.html.

Agreed. But if you read the article slowly and carefully, it refers to Picken's company as the biggest wind power developer and NOT California.

Pickens is a shameless self promoter. If he was actually promoting a plan that didnt pad his pockets, then I'd listen. Otherwise it gets filed as salesman talk. he is trying to convince you of impending doom (scare tactics), then convince you he has the perfect solution to sell to you to fix it. Its classic.

Pickens is a shameless self promoter. If he was actually promoting a plan that didnt pad his pockets, then I'd listen. Otherwise it gets filed as salesman talk. he is trying to convince you of impending doom (scare tactics), then convince you he has the perfect solution to sell to you to fix it. Its classic.


At least he is trying to come up with some plan. Your idea is that oil is bubbling up from the center of the earth and after we open up the banned lands we will soon be (year or two) oil independent and maybe even an oil exporter. Don't sell your Hummers, folks. It's a new day in America. <shutters>


Actually, Your posts are going to make for a great laugh in a few years when we all come back for the forum review. I look forward to it! It's all good. ;)

You must have an elementary school level of comprehension. I never said our oil problems would be solved with off shore drilling. I DID say it would lower prices. I HAVE stated that it will buy us more time to switch to a better form of transportation.

I dont believe in peak oil as proposed by people like Matt Simmons, but I also believe in hedging my bets. Drilling is the best way to prolong our current situation (give us time to adapt). I do NOT believe drilling in the U.S. will bring prices down to the level to demote fuel efficiency in driving.

You must have an elementary school level of comprehension. I never said our oil problems would be solved with off shore drilling. I DID say it would lower prices. I HAVE stated that it will buy us more time to switch to a better form of transportation.

I dont believe in peak oil as proposed by people like Matt Simmons, but I also believe in hedging my bets. Drilling is the best way to prolong our current situation (give us time to adapt). I do NOT believe drilling in the U.S. will bring prices down to the level to demote fuel efficiency in driving.



Can you at least agree that the EROI is getting lower? That it takes more energy to extract, explore and refine that it did before? Before with all the new huge oil fields and today with tar sands, deep drilling, etc? Can you start there or is that too elementary for you?

You must still be in elementary school to say pickens is not trying to help. Of course he is making money at it or would you rather see your money go to building another island on the sea in Abu Dhabi or to one of the United Arab Emirates> sorry i rather see my money go to pickens (a American) at least the money will stay here.

So remember this
If you filled your tank with gasoline today there's a decent chance you sent some money to Abu Dhabi.

yes, he made billions being kind and generous and only profitted when it helped the majority of people. Please... Most billionaires are where they are because they were greedy monopolistic business men. It would be completely elementary for me not to assume that an American snake is better than a Middle Eastern snake :rolleyes:

If you really want to worry about where we send our money, worry about Canada. We import more oil from Canada than from Saudi Arabia. Mexico is just behind Saudi Arabia.

Not speaking to the plan, the mouthpiece needs to be someone that doesnt stand to profit from the plan that is being proposed, plain and simple.

yes, he made billions being kind and generous and only profitted when it helped the majority of people. Please... Most billionaires are where they are because they were greedy monopolistic business men. It would be completely elementary for me not to assume that an American snake is better than a Middle Eastern snake :rolleyes:

If you really want to worry about where we send our money, worry about Canada. We import more oil from Canada than from Saudi Arabia. Mexico is just behind Saudi Arabia.

Not speaking to the plan, the mouthpiece needs to be someone that doesnt stand to profit from the plan that is being proposed, plain and simple.


I disagree with each and every one of your points. Your logic escapes me.

As does yours. Its what we call an impass.

hey, I've got a great idea!!! Lets have China come up with the world standard environmental policy. They are the worst offenders and have profitted greatly from polluting, but that should also make them experts... They can manufacturer all the enviro-cleaning stuff we need! really guys, we should trust them. They only want to help...

yes, he made billions being kind and generous and only profitted when it helped the majority of people. Please... Most billionaires are where they are because they were greedy monopolistic business men. It would be completely elementary for me not to assume that an American snake is better than a Middle Eastern snake :rolleyes:

If you really want to worry about where we send our money, worry about Canada. We import more oil from Canada than from Saudi Arabia. Mexico is just behind Saudi Arabia.

Not speaking to the plan, the mouthpiece needs to be someone that doesnt stand to profit from the plan that is being proposed, plain and simple.

At least he has a plan. The government has had 25 years and has not even thought it was worthwhile to work on one. While he builds out his wind farms, he is employing US labor. Although I do not like CNG as a mobile fuel, it is a better option right now that hydrogen and will cut oil imports.

Well, there are plans, but flashy sells. And Pickens has loved the media for a long time.

In any event, I dont know enough about 'the' plan to argue for or against it, just that I would prefer it be delivered by someone more credible (ie someone who hasnt ALREADY invested in its success)

California already has wind power and solar. My electricity is free !!!