General Motors executives continue to be pleased with Chevrolet’s sales performance in general and cautiously optimistic toward the Volt in particular.
Regarding the company as a whole, the “heartbeat of America” brand that goes along with baseball, hotdogs and apple pie has also now been shown to make two-thirds of its sales in foreign markets.
“Chevrolet is one of the top five American brands in the world,” said GM Chairman and CEO Dan Akerson recently to the Detroit Free Press, “Parenthetically, it’s the only one of the top five who grew market share last year. We sell a Chevrolet in the world every 6.35 seconds. We’re proud of that, too – it used to be 7.5! When we sell one every second, I’ll be happy.”
Moving forward tentatively, GM says the Volt has a long road ahead of it.
As for the Volt, noteworthy numbers have come forth for it as well.
According to President of GM North America Mark Reuss, as GM attempts to hit sales targets this year, Chevrolet will make available nearly as many Volts in October as were thus far sold.
“[O]ur availability of the Volt this month will be close to 4,000 units,” Reuss said, while conceding GM is still feeling its way, and does not yet have an accurate gauge for its real demand.
“Right around [the second or third quarter] of next year, we will actually know what the demand for Volt is,” Reuss said.
This said, Reuss added that GM is optimistic about the future of electric vehicles and said from what GM can tell, demand does justify producing an entire portfolio of electric cars – in due time.
How much time remains a mystery, although Britta Gross, GM’s director, global energy systems and infrastructure commercialization, recently hinted at GM electric vehicles to come in partnership with battery maker A123 Systems.
And speaking of batteries, Akerson again confirmed that getting the Volt’s battery costs down remains a priority.
“The Volt is going to see significant cost reductions,” Akerson said without mentioning whether this will equate to sales price reductions.
“We look at cost per kilowatt-hour. There are 16 kilowatt-hours on a Volt. When I first came, it was over $1,000 per kilowatt-hour. The number is roughly half that today,” Akerson continued. “We are going to make about 10,000 this year [for U.S. consumption] … We overproduced on our track by 30 in September. I’m watching this. … And we hope to hit 60,000 next year [for U.S. and overseas markets]. The real cost savings begin to hit next summer, early fall … “
Akerson explained further nuances to GM’s rationale for approaching cautiously. He said initial thoughts were to produce Volts on a more ambitious schedule, but notching it back to mirror the Prius’ original roll out ought to be enough.
“We were going to ramp up for a huge jump [in production]. My fear was, five years from now [there could be a battery technology revolution] and I’m stuck with old technology, and then I’m screwed again,” Akerson said. “”You don’t want to lose your lead. If we put 60,000 in the marketplace next year, I think Prius for the first four or five years ran at 70,000. This would be a good start. We do not want to lose money doing this. We at least want to break even.”
CEO Dan Akerson speaks generally of GM.
So, aside from mystery surrounding what will actually come out of the A123 deal, a limited EREV portfolio for the moment is conservatively serving GM’s purposes, Akerson said, as he reiterated Chevrolet’s overall appeal.
“Roughly one-third of our Chevrolet buyers has not been in a GM store in over five years. … I think Chevrolet has the best lineup, and it will only get better over the next few years,” Akerson said. “From the Sonic, to the Cruze, the Eco Cruze, the (upcoming) diesel Cruze — you look at Malibu with eAssist (hybrid technology), and then you look at the Impala being upgraded – and you throw in some trucks and crossovers – it’s in pretty good shape. And you say to yourself, what a better time to have customers you haven’t seen in multiple years visiting your stores.”
PluginCars, Detroit Free Press.
This entry was posted on Wednesday, October 12th, 2011 at 5:55 am and is filed under General. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
+5
Oct 12th, 2011 (6:27 am)Well of course the sales price will not fall as fast as the cost reductions. GM needs to make a profit, not continue losing money on the Volt.
Still, I wish the tone was more aggressive in terms of electrification, this conservative line allows more time for competition to overtake GM’s lead. I certainly agree that GM would be foolish to reduce costs by committing to long term high volume battery order of current design. Battery technology is improving rapidly and GM must remain flexible in its options here. But I thought GM would be able to get lower prices through high volume on short term commitments, I guess it doesn’t work that way.
+12
Oct 12th, 2011 (7:27 am)The local news (Detroit) just said that Chevy is going to make an all electric Spark for the US market…
+14
Oct 12th, 2011 (7:58 am)Love my 2011 Volt, but I’m still keeping an eye out for the HOLY GRAIL:
An extended range electric MiniVan!
+18
Oct 12th, 2011 (8:08 am)I think this is more about not burning through that $7500 tax credit too quickly. If GM sold all of their allotment before the other manufacturers, then they will be at a price disadvantage.
But on the other hand, they have a real technology lead right now, and maybe it would be better to keep the lead, which would let them be way ahead in working out the price reductions.
As far as technology, of course we expect the Gen-1 Volt to be obsolete in five or six years! Welcome to the world of high tech electronics! That is why we want Gen-2 and Gen-3 being worked on now.
And if you want to sell lots of vehicles, you have to have lots of models, so the buying public can get what they want and need. The Volt works great for me, but my wife would need the MPV-5. Many others need a small EREV truck. Some will only go for the Caddy ELR.
Come on GM! You did great with the Volt. Don’t drop the ball…………
JMHO
C-5277
OT:
I used my first bit of gasoline yesterday. The trip was 78 miles. City, highway, had the A/C and radio on. I was not trying to hyper-mile anything, just driving in normal traffic to do my job. I got 41 in CD mode and used 0.9 gallons of gas to go 37 miles in CS mode, which is about 41 mpg. So I would have to say that Chevy delivered exactly what they said the car would do. I couldn’t be happier!
+3
Oct 12th, 2011 (8:10 am)If a startup like Tesla can manufacture and sell two types of EV’s (coupe and sedan), surely GM can do better. (Two EREV’s and a BEV)
Chevrolet Volt
Cadillac ELR
Chevrolet Spark EV
Can’t wait to see them all on the road. I saw two Volts on the NJ Turnpike this week-end in close proximity to each other. Shame I was driving the wife’s Malibu.
Volt#671
NPNS!
Oct 12th, 2011 (8:21 am)This is certainly the reason GM isn’t moving faster. Once they burn through the credits – in 3 years – they will be ready to let loose with multiple models – Using all the lessons learned, using the most current technology – and using economies of scale.
Obviously if the credit were structured differently GM would be pushing forward with multiple models now. That way they could get economies with current battery tech – and still incorporate battery improvements as they come.
Higher volumes with multiple models and only modest battery improvements would guarantee success for these cars. Many millions of people have garages.
Also GM can’t be that stupid to fear being burned by a major battery breakthrough that would render their current cars obsolete, because they would be in position to incorporate such a breakthrough faster than anyone else if they already had the models and other components in place.
Certainly we wouldn’t have come this far without the $7500 credit, its just a shame they messed it up when they expanded it from 200,000 total to 200,000 per manufactuer. If they had made it 800,000 total (equal to 4 manufacturrs) but first come first serve, imagine where we would be right now. GM Would already have Luxury, SUV, PICKUP truck and sub compact EREVs along with a couple of BEVs rolling out and prices would be falling. Nissan and Ford would be scrambling for a piece of the action and Fisker for one wouldn’t have even tried.
+4
Oct 12th, 2011 (8:26 am)Here’s info from Detroit News
http://detnews.com/article/20111011/AUTO01/110110438/1148/
+2
Oct 12th, 2011 (8:40 am)I think today’s announcements include the EV and that GM is getting back into Nascar racing.
(I don’t really relate the two – Nascar is not very “environmentally friendly” at all)
There is a sly move in that message. Calling the EV a City Car also ropes in the Leaf as a City Car too. Labeling it as City means you imply there is range anxiety from the start. Not that you cannot drive it elsewhere, just don’t drive it long distances without charging stops along the way.
So, City Car implies also questions about kWh. Maybe 23kWh? There is a product on the A123 site listing that size as one of their products. That’s not too bad and is a direct sizing compare to Leaf. But, I suspect more miles can be used in the A123 chemistry than in the LG so you can charge to near full and depleat to near empty rather than trying to stay within the middle-band of charge like the Volt does. So, your range with the new EV should be at least double to the Volt’s 40-50 summer mpg range. I would have to wonder what the winter mileage with LiFEPo4 is over the Li-Ion LG pack.
+9
Oct 12th, 2011 (8:42 am)Test drove a Volt yesterday. A 2012 model was everything I was expecting and more. Sport mode was great. Now I have to figure out how I can afford one. Currently paying on 2010 Chevy Traverse and I don’t see how I can afford 2 car payments at this time. But eventually I will get my Volt.
+9
Oct 12th, 2011 (8:50 am)Akerson joined the GM Board in July of 2009 and the pack was around $1000 a kWh then. Patil stated in early 2010 that it was around $625, and now Akerson says it is about half of ‘over $1000′. That is pretty impressive, if true. If the pack has gone from $1050 or so, to $525′ish in less than 2 1/4 years, then GM and LG Chem have done some pretty impressive work. The question is, obviously, can they continue to drop the price of the pack enough to make the Volt profitable with a lower MSRP? I bet they can, but they will only drop the MSRP when the demand dries up at $39,145 base.
Even money says that as production accelerates and Volt sales rise to 4 digits per month, the demand will start to slow, comparatively, by February and the MSRP will drop in March, April at the latest.
Regardless, I just hope GM stays aggressive and sells a ton of these EREV’s.
+2
Oct 12th, 2011 (8:52 am)Thats exactly where I am, I test drove for first time last week. Waiting to figure how to afford one. I’m so obsessed to drive without oil but I can’t yet afford to. Waiting to see what Ford will charge for their EV Focus (I can drive more all electric miles on the pure BEV thus making them much more affordable, but of course there is that anxiety issue).
+8
Oct 12th, 2011 (8:53 am)Akerson was previously pretty gung-ho about increasing production up until fairly recently. Now they seem content to just coast along. I’m wondering about the depth of his comment when he reasons that it may be prudent to not flood the market with a technology that will be rendered obsolete in a just a few more years time. Reading between the lines, what that says to me is that he may have wind of a potentially disruptive (in a good way) battery architecture that could or would dramatically change the EV. To go along with that, I would wager that GM didn’t just build that advanced battery lab for show. They may be on to something game changing. I would love for that to be the case.
Oct 12th, 2011 (9:01 am)Here’s some breaking news.
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f12/gm-plans-market-pure-electric-car-u-s-106253/
-6
Oct 12th, 2011 (9:02 am)So… what was the deal with all the “range anxiety” promotion? How about the “more car than electric” motto? Hopefully, GM didn’t undermine itself with that approach.
Oct 12th, 2011 (9:16 am)Ignore the dufus commentators…the lady is bothersome.
http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000050789
I don’t know if I’d buy the Spark for my own needs. Direct competition seems to be the Mitsubishi MiEV and eSmart.
This is a little talk about the A123 idealogy pertaining to the discharge range and SOC. So, a City Car using A123 stands to be abused “more” than a Volt, so it’s smart to go A123 for this new EV.
http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/a123-systems-blog-talk-radio/id469075136
I was wrong in thinking they would electrify the Sonic. The Spark (if like in the video above) is far smaller and far less apealing to me than even an e-Sonic. But this is a good campus car for say Google, college towns and cities like NYC, Toronto, HK, London, etc. Cities are important for our future as the suburbs and long-commutes are less apealing. Far better than some of the other “NEVs” that have been talked about.
So, GM making the Spark could shut-out some other wannabes like GreenTech which was written up:
http://gm-volt.com/2011/09/09/greentech-promises-american-made-electric-cars-this-year
+10
Oct 12th, 2011 (10:31 am)If GM ever has excessive inventory of Volts to sell, then they aren’t marketing the incredible smooth acceleration that electric propulsion offers. There is so much more to Volt than just being an E-REV. As today’s comments prove, have the consumer test drive a Volt, and the car sells itself.
+1
Oct 12th, 2011 (10:42 am)From another thread and regarding the Volt, LG and A123.
If A123 were in the Volt, it could possibly use either a smaller pack or full-range of the 16 kWh size of the Volt. This could mean 12kWh total pack size or 55-60 AER using 16 kWh.
I believe also that the A123 pack using prismatic cells might not need a TMS. Not sure on that one. So, cost per kWh of a battery for the Volt – GM might be able to swing over to A123 in Gen-2 and get better value. Just an opinion (and I do not hold any A123 stock). I guess if I’m thinking this, so would GM engineers in the battery lab.
+1
Oct 12th, 2011 (10:52 am)I think this is a smart move on GM’s part. Now all comparisons and criticism on pricing between the Leaf and Volt will be focused where it should be…on an electric only vehicle, the Spark.
You can bet that Spark will have a competitive range with the Leaf and will be priced at or below the Leaf.
Now if GM had a compact hybrid that was an apples to apples competitor with the Prius…
+2
Oct 12th, 2011 (10:56 am)Did you see the article kdawg cited? Not exactly a minivan but getting closer. “Akerson also said GM plans to add two more Volt-style, extended-range vehicles to its lineup in the 2012-2013 time frame: a hatchback and a minivan called the Volt MPV5, shown last year at the Beijing Auto Show.”
From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20111011/AUTO01/110110438/GM-to-offer-all-electric-city-car-in-U.S.#ixzz1aZzA1ehy
+2
Oct 12th, 2011 (11:04 am)Don – I’ve seen the MPV5 and it looks interesting. With 3 kids (one of whom we’ll probably be needing storage space for a wheelchair soon), and aspirations for a 4th (don’t tell the wife yet), I’d really like a genuine honest to goodness EREV, electric, or natural gas mini-van to replace our CRV. Will take it from whoever makes it, though after the great experience with Volt I’d prefer it be Chevy.
In the meantime, I may perhaps look into the possibility of leasing the MPV5, whereas I decided to own (not lease) the 2011 Volt.
It’ll be interesting to see what type of lease plans they come out with for the MPV5. I would expect the overal price to be 4-5k more than a Volt, but that’s just my gut talking.
Thanks.
Oct 12th, 2011 (11:07 am)If GM is only planning to sell around 2000 Spark EVs in select U.S. markets [primarily California] to meet changing ZEV mandates, then I will be somewhat disappointed. I will be glad to see more EV choices; cost, range and size for starters. I will probably still wait for a 150 real world range BEV [that we can afford] for our particular needs. I could also see GM releasing the MPV 5 only in China for now and the hatch version only in Europe; but I hope I’m wrong.
+3
Oct 12th, 2011 (11:15 am)DonC,
DonC, very cool news on the two new EREV’s, but doesn’t that directly conflict with what Reuss said last week? And what is the difference between the new hatchback and the Volt?
I would bet Akerson has the straight dope, maybe Reuss wasn’t allowed to talk about it.
The MPV5 is going to sell fast if it has at least 30-32 miles of AER.
+1
Oct 12th, 2011 (11:20 am)I don’t think so mostly because there wasn’t a lot of specifics. I’m wondering if the hatch is the ELR?
Keep in mind the Spark looks like a CARB vehicle. 2000 units a year, mostly or exclusively in CA, etc. etc. So the real lineup would be the Volt, ELR, and the MPV.
Oct 12th, 2011 (11:35 am)The Spark wouldn’t sell in any large numbers in the US. It’s simply too small. Maybe somewhere else but not here.
You could be waiting a very long time for a BEV with a 150 mile range at $35K. Even if the Nissan Leaf battery has twice the range as the one now you’re looking more at 120 miles than 150 and that’s more like $38K than $30K.
+3
Oct 12th, 2011 (11:37 am)When originally floated, the MPV5 concept was said to get an AER of exactly this. Though I am a sucker for a good hatchback (I drive a Fit), I don’t know that I would be willing to give up 10 miles of AER to drive one. I hope GM can stretch this out to at least 30 – 35 (ideally 40). I expect the difference is due to greater weight and poorer aerodynamics though, so this could be tough.
Maybe an A123-based pack could be an option for both Volt and MPV5.
+2
Oct 12th, 2011 (11:43 am)A123 stock is up 20% today.
+2
Oct 12th, 2011 (11:43 am)Don’t forget that home-charging time goes up with the range, regardless of the battery type. At some point, you’ll push the single-night capacity of a home electrical service. This won’t bother many drivers, they’ll accumulate charge beyond their use over several days (but this would lead to a new kind of range anxiety; in which a driver may resist using a level of charge on one trip which will take more than one night to recover). This also ups the ante for public charging; and wide-scale adoption of level III will be a long time coming, even in cities.
+3
Oct 12th, 2011 (12:01 pm)I agree…
I’m waiting (or trying to wait) for a “mini van” type plug in … taking the seats out is a very important feature for me. My current Buick CUV has been the best vehicle I’ve owned in 38 years.
Hoping to replace it with a plug in Buick CUV.
I’ve test driven the Volt three times… I definetley need to have a Voltec vehicle… but it has to be more practical like my current Buick.
+1
Oct 12th, 2011 (12:12 pm)Some time will tell; in a few years; $35K-$40K for 120-150 mile range and Ford and Nissan already have practically halved charging time by using 6.6 instead of 3.3 amps or ohms or whatever the correct term is. My point is that in the near future; I’ll say 3-5 years EV competition and technology should be at the point where my needs can be met JMO.
+3
Oct 12th, 2011 (12:20 pm)Or they could have chosen to put nothing out, wait for the pioneers to take a slew of arrows while defining the market, and debut something electric in late 2012 tailored specifically for the for then easier to anticipate conditions of the 2013 MY. The credits may be making a difference in getting “anything” electric on the road now.
Akerson said. “”You don’t want to lose your lead. If we put 60,000 in the marketplace next year, I think Prius for the first four or five years ran at 70,000. This would be a good start. We do not want to lose money doing this. We at least want to break even.”
Looking at the first three years of Japan only Prius sales, the Volt numbers will be far ahead of the first three years of the Prius. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius#Sales
This isn’t a perfect world. Besides, what would we talk about if the government got it just right and GM had a perfect exponentially growing roll-out?
You’re right John. It was a disastrous mistake. The Volt and Spark damaged Chevrolet so badly that they will be cancelled and GM will go bankrupt; There is no longer a reason for you to waste your time here. It’s been nice, take care.
+1
Oct 12th, 2011 (12:20 pm)Good article, Jeff. Fun to read, even just a little, about GM’s thinking. Nice to see that, evidently, the odds of an all-electric mid-term solution are high enough for them to temper their hybrid enthusiasm. Probably just about everyone would agree that all-electric is the end game, so the sooner the better.
In the meantime, still a lot of $ to be made making trucks and SUVs.
Oct 12th, 2011 (12:27 pm)You can always go to a Nissan Leaf selling dealer to get your 60 kWh fill up at 400 amp DC. Shouldn’t be more than 1300 miles away from any one point in the Continental US at this time. Then you only need incremental fil-ups based on what little you use each day. Until you decide to take a long trip. or forget to fill up for a week or so
Oct 12th, 2011 (12:33 pm)I don’t think 120 – 150 miles will do it; but at some point you will reach the one-night home-charge limit. As for those “next step” BEVs: I don’t know about you, but I don’t have capacity for another 60 amps on my service (I believe you mean 30 and 60 amps). Yes, a separate service for the EV has been discussed, by my service comes underground from on-ground transformers and might cost a lot to do (if it is possible, or allowed at all).
I guess this adds “Your electrical service may vary” to the EV equation.
+5
Oct 12th, 2011 (12:53 pm)The headline from Akerson’s comments could be: “GM notches back Volt production”… I had said Volt seemed to be mirroring Prius’ initial production plan – yet I didn’t expect Mr. Akerson to say those exact words – that THAT was the plan!
Here’s my short take, Mr. Akerson – find a way to add a center seat position in the back seat – and do the ramp up – your current ad campaign is more in tune with the average person NOT knowing Volt is not a pure EV. Why “mirror” the 1st gen Prius when it was the 2nd gen that took off and sold millions?! Volt has the form factor of the 2nd and 3rd gen Prius which has proven it’s mass acceptance and success? Volt is stylish and good looking. National websites and syndicated TV shows even concede: “It’s an attractive car”… The first Prius was a garden gnome!
The only delay in adding the second shift at Hamtramck should be because of our economic downturn and future uncertaintly, NOT that Volt is new technology and they aren’t selling 30 cars from the total September production. This is short-sighted and wrong. Again, the 1st gen Prius was a tiny, rather ugly little car and built for the Japanese buyer and Japanese roads. Volt should hit the road running – not sitting by at a dribble waiting for some new battery tech. The NIMH batteries in the 2004 Prius were essentially the same as in the 1997.
I think this is corporate indecisiveness – not trepidation that the Volt may not sell over 150,000 units per calender year. My wise grandmother used to tell me: “Faint heart never won fair maiden” – she was right, and aggressively, confidently pursuing Miss Right when I saw the girl I liked won me the girl of my dreams. Likewise GM should take chances if they seek to win market share.
VOLT, IT’S MORE FREEDOM THAN ELECTRIC! ,
James
+1
Oct 12th, 2011 (1:18 pm)Last week I read that Ford was trouncing GM in the sales of small – medium size SUVs. In fact, even while GM’s Equinox and Traverse sold well – Ford sold nearly twice the amount of Escapes and Edges.
GM-Authority.com said the biggest gap in GM’s line is the lack of a small CUV/SUV competitive with Escape CR-V and RAV-4. All the while the Orlando is meekly being rolled out in Canada and S. Korea! Large flashy pictures of Orlandos rolling out of the Daewoo plant in S. Korea can be seen on the worldwide web. Lots of people are wondering, Mr. Akerson – why not an Orlando in the U.S., and perhaps we need some changes. Recently, plans were reversed, and the decision to build and sell the mid-size, Brazilian-designed Colorado pickup truck in the U.S. was announced. This puts Ford in the hot seat as there is no new Ranger planned to fill that void in their lineup. Why would Colorado NOT be in the U.S. market in your initial plan in the first place?! Americans want trucks, but don’t want the horrible gas mileage. I myself drive a midsized pickup truck. Ford is selling it’s new F100 midsized truck overseas and seemingly everywhere BUT the USA.On the surface it makes zero sense. Why are we now becoming the LAST market to get Cruze, Colorado and Orlando? Why is this such a hard call?
My guess is the UAW. For those vehicles to be sold here, there is massive pressure for them to be built here by union workers. The manufacturing costs are far less in other countries. Work this out and watch GM soar. The current 2 tier paygrade decision hammered out with the UAW recently may show some light at the end of the tunnel. America needs jobs – period. Build the electric Orlando ( MPV5 ) right alongside the ICE version and PUMP OUT THE JOBS, GM! The Orlando is squarely placed in the Escape, CR-V and RAV-4 territory, and built upon the Cruze platform – this seems a no-brainer for the U.S. market.
RECHARGE! .
James
Oct 12th, 2011 (1:22 pm)#7
Hot stuff if true. Thanks. +1
+1
Oct 12th, 2011 (1:26 pm)#18
That’s all I ever asked for inthe first place, LOL. +1
+1
Oct 12th, 2011 (1:46 pm)Then you have to explain how they can make the Sonic here. The reality is that the days of shipping vehicles around the world has ended. You need to make the vehicles in the same markets into which you’re selling them.
FWIW I think the Prius roll out is more a justification than anything. He should have skipped it IMO. It doesn’t really add anything. On the other hand I can’t say their roll out plan is wrong. Going hell for leather when rolling out an expensive car in a shaky economy is probably not the wisest move. Seventy thousand units is not bad. It’s a hell of a lot more than any other company is planning, including Nissan.
Oct 12th, 2011 (2:00 pm)James,
I think Consumer Reports has a lot to do with it. CR usually does not recommend a new vehicle if itdoes not have enough data and will label it not recommended due to “lack of data”……and if it’s a success overseas, that also makes it harder for them not to recommend it. If you know something about cars, you’ve got to know CR does not like GM.
Oct 12th, 2011 (2:02 pm)#33 Jackson I don’t think 120 – 150 miles will do it; but at some point you will reach the one-night home-charge limit. As for those “ “next step” BEVs: I don’t know about you, but I don’t have capacity for another 60 amps on my service (I believe you mean 30 and 60 amps).
New York, October 11, 2011 (ENS) – To charge the 2012 Ford Focus Electric, Ford’s first all-electric car, drivers can use an innovative home charging station just approved by Underwriters Laboratory.
The Ford Electric Vehicle Home Charging Station is a Level 2 EV charging device, designed for Ford. Providing up to 32 amps at 240 volts AC (7.7 kW output), it fully charges the car’s lithium ion battery in a little over three hours, more than four times faster than the standard portable charger.
So this configuration should have no problem being installed in most homes with relatively new breaker box’s. Of coarse there’s a limit to how much you can charge over night. I am not talking about 300+ mile battery range or using a BEV for trips beyond its purpose. We all have different needs; some people will be perfectly happy with a IMEV or a Spark EV or a Leaf or a Volt. My original point is to be happy with whatever you choose.
Oct 12th, 2011 (2:23 pm)I think Chevrolet got some publicity help from the Transformer movies and from the new Hawaii Five-O tv series. That helps to drive interest from people who have not given Chevrolet an opportunity in the past. IMO.
+2
Oct 12th, 2011 (2:29 pm)From Jeff’s GM-Volt article re: Sonic USA manufacturing – 7/18/’11:
“In order to make the gambit feasible, the entire assembly plant had to be streamlined – with the goal being to not draw down quality in the process.
To mitigate what is normally the largest profit sapper, the factory uses fewer than the usual number of employees. And of these, the United Auto Workers union agreed to an out-sized proportion of 40 percent of “tier 2″ entry-level workers earning $14.50 per hour, with other “tier 1 workers making about $28 per hour.
This 50-percent pay slash is at least closer to the under $10 per hour a Mexican autoworker might make, far less than up-to $60 per hour a full-wage U.S. union member might collect, but the decision was not without controversy.
Because the U.A.W.’s President Bob King saw the value of GM’s efficient subcompact, he agreed to compromises that allowed the first car of its class to be built by GM in the U.S. since the Chevette about 40 years ago, unless you count also a brief period GM built re-badged Toyota Corollas as GEO Prizms.
“We are committed to the success of the company,” King said to the New York Times. “We had to talk about a business model that makes sense.”
——————————————————————————————————————————————-
As I said before – the tier 2 pay agreement is largely responsible, along with extreme downsizing, streamlining and efficiency improvement ( twice the robots in production – HALF the factory floor space ).
The Orion plant will be a model for future ventures, I’m sure.
As to your comment about building vehicles in other countries and shipping them being obsolete. I can’t agree. Tariffs, sanctions, extremely large tax and code breaks by state governments are largely responsible for the move by international automakers to manufacture where they sell. In fact, the foreign automakers also profit competitively by largely employing non-union workers. A survey I did earlier this year showed the UAW and major unions decreasing in numbers of workers quite drastically. Unions have petitioned the foreign-owned domestic factories to unionize and have flatly failed. The reasons given were that current workers for Honda, Hyundai,Toyota, Suburu and BMW plants felt their companies’ benefit plans and wages were more than fair – they were happy as they were!
There are exceptions, of course, such as foreign truck manufacturers ( think Mercedes/WhiteFreightliner Sprinters, Nissan NV and Ford Transit Connect ) who build the machine overseas, disassemble it, ship it here and reassemble it in an American factory due to the infamous “chicken tax” and STILL MAKE A PROFIT!
That said, I feel it’s inevetible that in time, we’ll see trending towards domestic companies building vehicles in China, as they do in Mexico, and selling them here. It’s just cheaper – and the name of their game is profit, plain n’ simple. At present there is no such thing as a truly domestic car since it’s thousands of parts come from dozens of countrys. I think the current move shown by the UAW’s concessions with the Orion Sonic plant ( even though some UAW members picket the plant daily ) will continue and there will be more domestic production of certain models than in years past. It’s also a major reality we will see even more overseas manufacturing as the lure of cheap labor is just too strong altogether.
RECHARGE! ,
James
+3
Oct 12th, 2011 (2:36 pm)Why bother, I say? The Prius has had an enormous following, and in this case imitation may be the sincerest form of disaster (as Honda has already discovered with it’s Insight II). In warfare, when facing a firmly entrenched enemy, it can be advantageous to flank that position rather than attack it head on; there is always a chance of later encirclement. Though outclassed technologically, Prius still has the advantage of sheer numbers, and a decade head start to establish it’s market share; advantages it will hold for some time to come. I think the different approaches of Voltec and BEV are the right way to go precisely because they do not compare with the known-commodity Prius.
Once numbers of BEVs and EREVs increase in number, then we can think about tearing it up with Godzilla. Having said that, I do predict that our side will take an early lead over the soon-to-be introduced “too little, too late” PiP (the closest Prius to the new tech), and never lose it. PiP won’t come out nationwide until Volt is in it’s third year (and it will sell mainly because it is better). It may take a decade for the rest.
+4
Oct 12th, 2011 (2:40 pm)#42
Maybe, but I’ll be DAMNED if I’ll buy one.
+1
Oct 12th, 2011 (2:47 pm)#43
Well maybe, but local Tojo dealers here are closing out 2011 Package II Prii for $22K. For a LOT of people, it’s really hard to make the jump from there to the Volt. And there are a lot more new Prii than Volts on the road in SoCal, LOL.
And the Insight was just a case of too little, too late, IMHO. The mileage isn’t as good as the Prius, nor is the interior room. It was supposed to be cheaper, but Tojo countered by lowering Prius prices and killed it in the crib.
I bought a Volt but, if GM had come out with a Prius fighter 10 years ago, I would have bought one of those in a heartbeat.
+3
Oct 12th, 2011 (2:54 pm)Same here!!!!
Oct 12th, 2011 (3:00 pm)Ten years ago, yes. They might even have avoided bankruptcy. But they didn’t do either. A Prius-clone now is what would be “too little, too late.”
From this point forward, this is Tojo’s battle to lose (and yes, Voltec and BEV will need to achieve much better pricing before this becomes apparent in the marketplace). At some point the Hybrid Synergy Drive’s legacy tech will become a burden rather than an advantage (that point may well come with the PiP). Eventually, the Prius could well edge down to the lower market sectors, leaving the more lucrative high ground to the later technologies.
Hopefully, not too high.
+2
Oct 12th, 2011 (3:06 pm)TRUE THAT!
+1
I agree totally. It’s a strain to buy MADE IN USA today! The companies that do hold true to manufacture their products here are ones I endorse – EVEN THOUGH you get a product in a box and spend an afternoon assembling the parts because that company cannot afford to have workers do that as they did in days past by.
I used to feel better buying products from Motorola, Apple and Schwinn – American companies who manufacture overseas, justifying that- at least the majority of profits went to an American company and into our economy. That’s just thinner and thinner logic as the manufacture of more expensive products ( like cars ) goes to China and beyond. What about HUMAN RIGHTS – a major tenet of our American way?!!!
It’s toughest on the American consumer who is on a budget yet still wants to buy products to support our expected lifestyle. You and I are those who will sacrifice to buy American and stick to it. I feel the majority folds eventually to price and buys the cheapest product available.All of us have to wince when we think of literally how much in our households is made in China.
To that – how can unions grapple with this simple fact and reach a level of entitlements and benefits they’re willing to accept and still survive? Union workers must compromise without selling out to corporate mindset profit-mania.
I love to endorse AMERICAN MADE PRODUCTS AND INNOVATION, this is why I’m a huge VOLT NUT. Here’s an American company I love to endorse. Go-Ped, or Patmont Motorworks out of Nevada, USA. They make what are largely accepted as the world’s best scooter – and I’ve watched them go from gasoline , to lead acid, to lithium and now LifePo technology. They even came out with a Lehr Propane scooter powered by those small propane cannisters ( American propane ) you buy at the hardware store for your barbeque! ( those proved SO POPULAR they removed them from their website as they cannot make them fast enough! ). INNOVATE OR DIE should be on a flag outside every USA factory and corporate headquarters. Go-ped scooters have shown me a company that comes up with new ways to stay ahead of their industry. And yes I own a Go-ped ( Lead acid
but plan on buying a LifePo and propane scooter in the near future ) – they’re just really neat! They fold in half, go in the trunk ( or hatch area of your Volt ) and provide a gas-free way to cover miles in areas you car can’t.
http://www.goped.com
RECHARGE! ,
James
+1
Oct 12th, 2011 (3:14 pm)You lost me. So you are saying there will be both more domestic manufacturing AND more overseas manufacturing? Can’t have your cake & eat it too. So which is it, IYO, general shift towards overseas or domestic production (regarding the US)?
+2
Oct 12th, 2011 (3:32 pm)#48
Yeah, and then they wonder why their jobs get exported.
Oct 12th, 2011 (3:48 pm)My prognosis would be – Unfortunately, the trend will be towards more manufacturing moving overseas for domestic auto companies, driven by labor cost and union conflicts. Of course, the trend toward foreign automakers moving their NA model production here and implementing American non union workers will continue.
The fact that some types of vehicles which were previously pigeonholed as foreign-built-only, such as subcompacts like Sonic will be built here is promising, but I feel that on the larger scale the big U.S. companies will feel they have to move to more vehicles built in China,Mexico and elsewhere and shipped here to stay competitive. It’s an unfair situation, as covered here for years re: the trade imbalances Korea and Japan enjoy vs. domestic companies in foreign markets.
Sorry for the confusion – I tried to make my point as clear as possible but could’ve done better. My big question is – What politician can we vote for who will have the guts to level the playing field? If these inequalities did not exist, U.S. manufacturers could keep more jobs here and dominate the NA market. My second big question is - Will the UAW and other very large unions be able to re-invent themselves or conform more realistically to today’s market conditions? If they can, the Sonic Orion plant may prove to be a model. In my opinion, if they do not, they just may not survive, at least in the form we’ve known for decades. When a worker has the choice between losing his job and being unemployed, or moving to Kentucky, Texas or S. Carolina and working for Toyota or BMW at a slightly lesser wage but no union dues or pressures with comparable benefits — I think the unions should be worried.
VOLT, IT’S MORE FREEDOM THAN ELECTRIC! ,
James
Oct 12th, 2011 (3:58 pm)I agree.
Oct 12th, 2011 (4:29 pm)Wow.. A123 finished up over 26% today. I thought it was just going to pop for a couple hours. I guess we all should have bought some stock when we knew they were working with GM a couple weeks ago.
Oct 12th, 2011 (4:42 pm)I’m glad I’m not in the market anymore.
+1
Oct 12th, 2011 (5:01 pm)T 1,
Thanks T1. These are the good old days!
Oct 12th, 2011 (6:15 pm)It will be interesting to see the details of the Spark EV. Will it be just a gas car body w/ some batteries in it or will it have a dedicated body w/ the batts in the floor???
Will it have liquid cooled batteries.??? I have a feeling that it may NOT have liquid cooled batts w/ A123′s Fe batts esp. if the name of the game is keeping costs down.
I’m not sure how the body will work out but I would like to see a dedicated EV body. In mass production in large quantities it shouldn’t be any more expensive on a recurring basis.
Fascinating. I’m sure Jeff will keep on top of it:)
+4
Oct 12th, 2011 (7:56 pm)James, It is not only the unions but CEO’s salaries that make it tough. Most of the rest of the Countries of the world CEO’s make 10 to 50 times as much as the common worker. In the USA CEO’s make 475 times as much as the common worker.
Also don’t forget the US corporate tax rate is 35% which is the second highest in the world. Let’s not make the companies profitable solely on the backs of the US worker in a factory.
Take CAre, TED