The Volt can’t be all things to all people, but GM has aimed to make the car as widely applicable as possible. Certainly the presence of a ranger extender goes a long way in giving the car advantages over pure EVs while still allowing drivers to cover most of their daily miles without gas.
GM designed the Volt’s 400 pound lithium-ion battery to fit into a T-shaped container that runs down the midsection of the car. This heavy weight in the center lowers the center of gravity, improving handling as well as helping to create a near 50:50 weight balance.
When the car was initially being redesigned, in order to keep the roof line low, the battery was so tall that it had to be run through the center of the rear bench, reducing the typically 3-person row, and 5 person capacity to a 2 seat row and 4 person capacity.
We hope and want the Volt to sell in high volumes, but some question if being a four-seater will reduce the car’s potential marketability.
According to former Volt marketing director Tony DiSalle, GM doesn’t see that as the case at all.
“Generally when you look at a vehicle in the small to mid category and realistically look at that middle seat in the back row it is often times not all that functional of a middle seat,” says DiSalle. “So I don’t see that as a major detriment at all.”
DiSalle tries to see it as even adding value in terms of adding storage space. The top of the pack has cupholders and storage space in it.
“There are some packaging advantages of the vehicle,” he says. “The cargo space in the back is very roomy. There’s an ability to put quite a bit of stuff back there.”
DiSalle believes that the center rear seat in most cars in the Volt’s size class are not realistically usable anyway.
“I would specifically say that middle seat if you look around in a small mid vehicle and just look at the dimensionality of the middle seat typically you have to question how functional or realistic that is,” he says. “I don’t think we have any major disadvantage with that at all.”
He would not say if GM plans to open that space for seating in the next generation Volt, by redesigning the battery. “I can’t say in terms of the next generation Volts what the gameplan is, we’re just not given out any specifics on the next gen product,” said DiSalle.
DiSalle thinks people are buying Volts to be involved in new technology and to reduce gas consumption. “So while its certainly not a utility vehicle that’s not why people are buying it per se,” he says.
+8
Feb 9th, 2011 (11:10 am)For everyday use or longer trips I agree….I’d rather have the cup holder/storage space. But once in a while you need to squeeze in that 5th person for a short ride and you don’t have that option with this car. So I guess it comes down to whether this is your only car (in my case it would be), or what is your second car. Is it a two seat sports car or a 5+ passenger vehicle.
It is one of the main reasons I’m waiting for the EREV Caddie CUV.
+7
Feb 9th, 2011 (11:16 am)The evolutionary leap from 2 seats and NiCad batteries. To 4 seats, Lithium batteries, and 5 doors is huge. Most of the early owners of the Volt are either hardcore EV enthusiasts, Luxury car buyers, or high end sport sedan owners. How deep is this buying pool? Good question. How many truck enthusiasts would love to own a Volt, but are waiting for the Voltec Amp? Hundreds of thousands.
=D-Volt
+27
Feb 9th, 2011 (11:26 am)I can not think of too many times that I have ever used a 5th seat. In fact I would say probably 60% of my driving it is only me in the car. Then anonther 30% with only one other passenger.
I hear a lot of people complain about the 5th seat but how many people actually would use it? If you have 3 kids you probably should be looking at a minivan
+4
Feb 9th, 2011 (11:27 am)Sure five seats can offer a convenience when needed but in my case, a single guy with no kids the Volt will do me just fine. It is funny how many people I have chatted with me that don’t think I should buy the Volt because it only seats 4. I am trying to remember the last time I had a full car of 4 or 5 for that matter.
By the way, those who do own a Volt how is the back seat in terms of roominess? Has anyone posted any feedback in the forums section?
+6
Feb 9th, 2011 (11:33 am)If I did a “grassroots” survey among all car drivers in my area (Puerto Rico), I can easily bet that less than 1% (or about 10,000 vehicles) carry more than four passengers at any day or hour. The majority (over 60%) just has the driver with no passengers (I am one of those), and over 90% of the vehicles sold here have four seats or more. So there is a lot of wasted space in these vehicles during regular traffic hours. This means that there is very little need of carrying more than one passenger. If most vehicles were just two-seaters, they will still sell.
The four-seat Volt will sell well when it arrives. The need of a fifth seat will not be an issue for selling it here. Only large families will not buy a Volt. So GM must produce a Voltec Equinox that seats five, and can hold three special car seats for small children. I’m one of those that has the regular Equinox with more space, but I don’t have any children, so my space is used only to carry my two dogs!
Raymond
-22
Feb 9th, 2011 (11:34 am)(click to show comment)
+25
Feb 9th, 2011 (11:37 am)I have yet to meet a potential VOLT buyer looking to get one for the family hauler. So far it has just been business professionals, retired or semi-retired couples, and city and county officials. The ‘family vehicle’ of choice around here is still the Equinox or Tahoe.
+7
Feb 9th, 2011 (11:40 am)Nobody ever bought an MR2, CRZ, CRX, Honda Insight either?
I think that a large portion of the population really does not care about seat number 5. If you concerned with percentages a minivan has 30% more seating than a typical 5 seater, and is probably much more comfortable.
Ocassionally I need to move lumber – and although the prius does a fairly good job with 2×4′s I am still happy i dont own a Dodge ram instead because i need to to move a couple sheets of plywood once or twice a year.
+20
Feb 9th, 2011 (11:41 am)I seriously doubt that the rear middle seat plays a huge factor in buying the Volt. JMO.
The current seating arrangement should provide some comfort to Dads with daughters, simply because it’s a lousy make-out vehicle. Now those HHR’s on the other hand….
Be well,
Tagamet
+20
Feb 9th, 2011 (11:42 am)Not being in a roll out state, I have been talking to a dealer in Texas to order my Volt. But when Jim Ellis Chevy in Atlanta got a Volt to go on display, I went over last weekend to see it. I was amazed to get to see it in person and was so excited when I powered it up. Everything was so exciting. Then came sitting in the back seat. All excitement was lost when I noticed my head was basically under the back glass and my knees where mashed up against the front seat. I did like the 4 seat layout but that also means you cant put your knees around the front seat. Later that day I was in a Cruze which was much more comfortable in the back seat. But I said just like others have already stated, how often do you have 4 or more people in your car. I rarely do! If that is the case we can take one of their gas gusslers. Volt is ordered!!!
+2
Feb 9th, 2011 (11:47 am)What is that a picture of? The actual rear seats and center console don’t look like that in the production Volt.
join thE REVolution
+3
Feb 9th, 2011 (11:48 am)#3
My sentiments exactly. +1
+3
Feb 9th, 2011 (11:51 am)Tagamet,
The rear seats fold down. Teenagers are very creative!
+3
Feb 9th, 2011 (11:52 am)BamaSteve,
CONGRATS on the Volt order! I’ll bet that you’re still wearing your Volt smile.
Be well,
Tagamet
+2
Feb 9th, 2011 (11:53 am)Tagamet,
Yes I am! Thanks!
+5
Feb 9th, 2011 (11:53 am)Four seats don’t matter to me. Primary use will be commuting with only one person. Me.
+2
Feb 9th, 2011 (11:59 am)VoltinME, I sat in the back seat of the Volts when they were in DC and it was pretty comfortable for me and I am 6’4″, BUT when my buddy who was driving hit the brakes fairly hard my hair/cap brushed the liner overhead. I didn’t notice the lack of space except when we were decelerating rather sharply. The back seats are nicer that a normal back seat and the leg room is ok, but the overhead is more suited to someone who is shorter than 6’4″.
The front seats are really good too, with more overhead space and good shoulder space. I don’t see the 4 seats as a big issue for most, but it is going to be a deal killer for some. The Volt is almost 5″ shorter than a Leaf and only half an inch wider, so that really helps the cDa of the Volt over the Leaf. I haven’t seen numbers for the Focus Electric, but in person it looks pretty slick. It may have a better cDa than the Volt, which mean the Focus may have a better AER on the Hwy than the Leaf.
It is great to see options building up for EREV’s and BEV’s!
VoltinME,
+1
Feb 9th, 2011 (12:06 pm)A friend came up with a solution to the hard surface/cup holder in between the 2 rear seats that hurts your elbow if you lean down into it. Make an armrest that has protusions that slot into the cup holders. The armrest could even have cup holders built into it like many other cars. This sounds like an opportunity for an after market entrepreneur.
“_____” in #135
+13
Feb 9th, 2011 (12:08 pm)The Volt was never presented as a people hauler….. it is what it is… the best commuter car available on the market today!
The next generation Voltec vehicles will address utility… as in AMP CUV etc.
Bottom line is … the VOLT is doing what it was designed to do… get you to work on less fuel.
And take you on weekend trips with ease.
+9
Feb 9th, 2011 (12:28 pm)The problem for me is that I have 3 kids, I own a minivan, and I want to drive on electric power as soon as possible. I want a second car that I can drive on trips around the Chicago suburbs on electric power with my whole family when the minivan is not necessary. Sure an EREV Equinox or something like it would be nice but when is that going to make it to the market?
From the picture removing the center console to make room for a 5th seat seems reasonable. Granted an adult would be uncomfortable but I believe a younger person could comfortably and safely sit there.
Adding a 5th seat would make me seriously consider buying the Volt. Without the extra seat, its harder to justify. Maybe I’m a minority but I’m a minority that’s looking to buy in the next year. Currently I’m waiting to see if GM or some other company makes an EREV that will seat 5 and may have to settle on a hybrid in the meantime.
FWIW, I could not bring myself to purchase a Leaf due to its catfish-like appearance and lack of extended range capability.
+4
Feb 9th, 2011 (12:31 pm)pjkPA,
Agreed, *but* I honestly believe that a single factor that will sell a huge number of Volts is the “Fun Factor”. A lot of people are going to buy the Volt (and its siblings), *primarily* because it’s so darn much fun to drive! JMO.
Be well,
Tagamet
Feb 9th, 2011 (12:39 pm)My conspiracy theory leads me to believe that it is already known the oil output will begin a rapid decline, and the intro of EV’s is fueled more by the pending doom, than by just caring and loving car companies trying to save the planet.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110209/ts_yblog_thelookout/wikileaks-saudis-running-out-of-oil
I guess this is good news for the Volt and other EV’s, but the ramifications of steep production declines in the next several decades is something to really ponder.
+2
Feb 9th, 2011 (12:45 pm)Has anyone posting in this thread tried to fit car seats in the back of the Volt? I have yet to see one in person but I’ve read a few comments that the back seats are not very accommodating for such use.
As for room for taller people in the back…
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/showphoto.php/photo/16424/si/volt
The fellow in the image is not me, but he is 6’3″ (I’m 6’5″)… and his shoe actually got stuck under the driver’s seat. He did the same standard test I do when I sit in an unfamiliar car with a back seat — shove the driver’s seat all the way back (to accommodate my 36″ inseam), check to see if my knee will swing under the steering wheel if I’ve got the brake pedal depressed all the way, then climb into the seat behind the driver’s seat to see how I fit (or don’t).
A small back seat would not necessarily deter me from purchasing a vehicle (how often am I likely to ride in the back seat of my own car?), but right now I have one 2yr old and would like to add another member to the family soon… so carseat space is important to me. Right now I drive a first generation Insight (plenty of legroom!) and switch to my Elantra sedan for kid carrying duty when needed. If the Volt couldn’t do kid duty for me it wouldn’t be a candidate for replacing the two vehicles.
It may not be a big factor for the target demographic but there are those of us who are interested but do need to do occasional kid hauling duty.
+1
Feb 9th, 2011 (12:54 pm)#22
Well I’m not so sure about “caring and loving car companies”, LOL, but I would like to think that they have finally realized that he who is not ready for the next price spike will probably not be around very long. At the rate things are going here in SoCal, $4/gal gas by summer will not be much of a surprise. The cheapest regular here today is $3.25, and it just goes up from there depending on location. Wait for it!
Anyway, +1 for insight.
Feb 9th, 2011 (12:58 pm)This is a good question for which I have no answer, but I’d suggest that you post it in the forums section. I’m sure that others there share your needs (congrats on the bambinos BTW). I *think* that the back seats are the same form-factor as the front seats, but I have no idea what the child seat ramifications are. I remember my parents laying me across the back window shelf to get me to sleep (g).
Be well,
Tagamet
+11
Feb 9th, 2011 (12:59 pm)In the 7 years I owned my ’04 Prius no passenger ever used the middle seat in back. So It did not deter me at all from buying the Volt.
+4
Feb 9th, 2011 (1:00 pm)We are a family of 4. Rarely do we need the 5th seat. However that 5th seat is worth its weight in gold when its needed.
-6
Feb 9th, 2011 (1:01 pm)Actually, it’s a matter of you thinking carefully about your needs already.
People often forget the quick trips for food, movie, lake, shopping, etc. where everyone piles into the car but couldn’t care less about comfort since the drive is only a few minutes anyway.
I do that on a regular basis, not giving the matter a second thought because seating for 5 is so common. Only have 4 could turn into an interesting post-purchase discovery for some.
.
Feb 9th, 2011 (1:03 pm)I was in Florida recently visiting relatives, and we had to squeeze six people into a relatively small (five-seater) car. There were two kids, and one sat on my lap. I wouldn’t want to do it on a regular basis, but, for the occasional trip, it really wasn’t a big deal.
+1
Feb 9th, 2011 (1:03 pm)Children often have a friend who likes to tag along.
.
+9
Feb 9th, 2011 (1:11 pm)The Volt is a bargain compared with the other car in the garage. The Cadillac XLR has half the number of seats and is double the price! 4 seats at $41,000 wins the prize (and has a more luxurious quiet ride with plenty of torque for jack rabbit starts without the engine noise!)
+5
Feb 9th, 2011 (1:13 pm)Today I drive a Ford Focus, 5 door HB. My wife and I have 4 kids. As I have been following the Volt since about the time that Lyle started this blog I have been more sensitive to how often I have 5 in the car. Since my wife drives a mini van, we use that when we all need to go somewhere. On occasion I’ll find myself with a total of 5 after helping to pick up the kids, maybe with their friends at some event, etc. Having only 4 seats has not made me pause on my decision to get a Volt. If anything, it will help limit my availability to help with the car pools…
+4
Feb 9th, 2011 (1:15 pm)SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) — General Motors Co. on Wednesday posted record sales of 268,071 vehicles in China last month, a 22.3% jump from January of last year. GM said its market share in the country reached 14.7%. The strong start to the year puts GM, along with its joint ventures, on track to bring its streak as the global sales leader in China up to seven consecutive years. Buick was the top-selling brand with a 50% jump to 70,441 vehicles. Chevrolet, GM’s biggest seller in the U.S. by a wide margin, turned in a 37% increase from a year ago to 67,711 vehicles. GM shares eased 1% to $36.50 on Wednesday.
NPNS
+3
Feb 9th, 2011 (1:19 pm)Minivan owners want a Voltec car also. I only walk in my shoes, and would never presume what is best for someone else. I rarely use the 5th seat in my car, but when I do, it is because I needed it.
BTW, the Volt’s 4 seats are fine with me.
+3
Feb 9th, 2011 (1:20 pm)As stated before – I dont own a Dodge Ram becasue I need to Haul plywood a couple times per year.
Most families that have multiple kids also have multiple cars – choose the best vehicle for the task. If you have 3 kids then this is not the car for you. If you have 2 kids and no other car and want to bring a frined along – this is not the car for you. For most people who do most of their commuting with themselves or only 1 other person this car makes a lot of sense. I predict that in 5 years or so there will be more Big Family Friendly Erev cars available.
Feb 9th, 2011 (1:21 pm)Yup, and that was my point exactly.
+2
Feb 9th, 2011 (1:23 pm)Gosh I remember those days!! When there is a will, there is a way. Period.
+3
Feb 9th, 2011 (1:25 pm)Its not that they dont want one – just that this is not the car and there is not one available at this time. In time more options will become available.
If you regularly ferry people around in a minivan or other larger vehicle you can consider yourself already getting 100 Seat MPG, (5 people in a 20MPG vehicle). I commute in my prius alone at 45 Seat MPG. So in this situation the 20MPG car is better.
I have used a 5th seat before, but only a couple times that I ever remember – If I dont have 3 kids im not going to let it influence my buying decision.
+6
Feb 9th, 2011 (1:33 pm)It’s pretty rare that I see more than 4 people in a car. If I had a multi-child family, I’d be buying a minivan instead of a car. I don’t see where this is an issue.
+3
Feb 9th, 2011 (1:43 pm)I drive an Impala at present, and 50% of my driving is with just me. Another 40% is with my wife on board.
I have NEVER had 5 people in the car – I consider that middle position a torture rack, and the Impala is considered a relatively large car.
+1
Feb 9th, 2011 (2:06 pm)“He would not say if GM plans to open that space for seating in the next generation Volt, by redesigning the battery. “I can’t say in terms of the next generation Volts what the gameplan is, we’re just not given out any specifics on the next gen product,” said DiSalle.”
Don’t you love the word ‘can’t'? If it had been ‘won’t', you know they are well on their way to a redesign and that this is already determined. But ‘can’t’ just leaves everyone wondering if it is even a goal to shoot for the next time around- and when that next iteration will actually show up. For those who are fence sitting based on rear seating capacity, it must be very frustrating. You would think this would be one of the FIRST issues to be addressed with improved battery technology (more energy density and how it relates to space utilization).
+3
Feb 9th, 2011 (2:07 pm)Personally I have 2 vehicles (recently upgraded fromthre minivan status.
My 09 Equinox is my daily commuter and while it seats 5, rarely do I have a full complement (I have 3 kids).
Vehicle #2 is an 08 Acadia thatmy wife uses and is the principle hauler. I can put me, the wife, all 3 kids and 1 friend each in the Acadia, no sweat. It was chosen SECIFICALLY beause it seats 8. I want a Volt as it will reduce my gas consumption by about 85-90% without causing difficulty.
the lack of a 5th seat in my family of 5 is of 0 concern, it is NOT a consideration when I buy a VOLT.
Mitch
+3
Feb 9th, 2011 (2:17 pm)Caught an interesting movie on Planet Green, produced by the BBC, called ‘Burn Up’. It ran like an episode of ’24′, starting out with several people being killed by snipers in the desert. As the story unfolds, it turns out that they were geologists sent to find out if Saudi Arabia actually had all the oil it claimed to. In the end, the answer was ‘no’ and all hell broke loose.
After the Saudi’s announced last summer that they were no longer looking for oil because they were saving it for future generations, this plotline resonated in my head. Could anybody really fall for that ‘saving it’ stuff? It doesn’t take a conspiracy theorist to realize that a rude awakening is at hand.
+1
Feb 9th, 2011 (2:18 pm)Exactly the reason we NEVER bought a minivan. Extra seats end up belonging to our community, not us.
+8
Feb 9th, 2011 (2:23 pm)Of course, the 5th seat will matter to some people, which is why, ultimately, GM needs to make more than one Voltec model.
But, for now, the point is to appeal to as many people as possible. And I think they’ve done that.
+9
Feb 9th, 2011 (2:28 pm)I really wish more people would pay attention to this. I just had a very frustrating conversation last night with a guy who’s convinced that, a)nobody will buy an electric car because people aren’t going to accept range limitations, and b)building more public transportation is a waste of money. Unfortunately, that attitude is very very common.
+3
Feb 9th, 2011 (2:28 pm)Indeed, and I’ve voted your post up. That must be a picture of an early prototype.
Lyle, I know you’re not big on correcting articles after they are published, but this photo should be captioned as something like “early prototype backseat, NOT actual production Volt backseat”.
+1
Feb 9th, 2011 (2:42 pm)ziv,
Thanks ziv!!
+6
Feb 9th, 2011 (2:43 pm)From a a marketing standpoint the “4 captains chairs” becomes a selling point, either consciously or subconsciously. It gets the fuel economy of an economy car, but rides like, feels like, acts like, looks like a near luxury car. Watt’s the saying? “If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck?”….
The marketing speak is this: The Volt has a clearly communicated message, It’s the most reasonable near-luxury car you can own. The price fits with the messages, the ride and interior fit with the message, the packaging fits the message, the look fits, EVERYTHING FITS!!
You can have it for about $35,000… That is awesome!
I was looking at a review this morning for the new Ford Explorer, BASE PRICE $39,995, AS TESTED $50,000… It gets about 18mpg in mixed driving. This isn’t the perfect vehicle to compare the Volt to, but ya know what, I bet you 99% of the time the vehicle has LESS THAN 4 passengers, and will never go further than a dirt road. How much does it cost to drive it 2000 miles? $3.659 X 111 gal = $406.55
Alexandra just drove her Volt 2000 miles and it cost her $64.39 in fuel and maybe about $40 on Electricity.. for a grand total of about $104.00
ABOUT A 1/4 OF THE COST TO RUN COMPARED TO FORD.S NEW SUV!! I’m just saying: the appeal of the new Explorer doesn’t look to hot.
+2
Feb 9th, 2011 (2:44 pm)I am looking forward to the Volt, however the 5th seat issue is abit of an issue as a single parent and single car family of 2 under 10′s, it would be nice to be able to have that 5th seat so in case there was another Adult there would be room for another child in the back.
I did notice however that there is anchor points for car seats which is a requirement here in Australia to my knowledge up until they are 10 even if it is just a booster type seat.
Volts will start appearing here next year I understand which will be fantastic, the biggest factor for me is that they will be about AUD $60k and the 5th seat but isn’t a massive deal breaker more than likely the price will be and no government EV assistance like the US or UK.
With fuel prices here just recently going up to $1.40/Litre for 91 octane regular and if Oil goes to $250/barrel as I read may happen that could see alot more people here on the public transport, which I do take for commuting purposes, the sooner I can get off this mostly foreign drill & burn technology and onto domestic electricity the better at least for those times when I have my kids.
+1
Feb 9th, 2011 (2:57 pm)I have to respectfully disagree with Tony (whom I met at a local dealer once). As I mentioned in a previous post, while I’d love to buy a volt, as a four seater, it was a no-go. I just bought a Ford Focus. I’ve got three kids and and a minivan, so that would be our primary car when the whole family is traveling together. But what if the minivan breaks and needs repairs, and we have to go somewhere. We (and most families of five) would reasonably need a second car that can hold the whole family. We looked at the fiesta, but it was too small for even our 10 year old (normal size skinny kid) to sit in the middle seat, as was the tercel and other equivalent cars.
While families of five may not be the largest demographic, there are probably millions of such families (and many more families of four which would like the security of an extra seat for Grandma, or a friend).
+1
Feb 9th, 2011 (3:37 pm)Sorry Nick D. I misunderstood your meaning in comment Number 3.
+4
Feb 9th, 2011 (3:40 pm)..and it certainly does appeal to me.
+1
Feb 9th, 2011 (3:48 pm)Congrats! Did you order it from Jim Ellis? Did they give you a delivery timeframe?
Details Man! I want details!!!
Feb 9th, 2011 (3:50 pm)We have 2 kids, but do have to lug around a dog or two from time to time, which may not work with the Volt. Not enough to deter me, but, no one has yet brought up the man’s-best-friend use case.
+2
Feb 9th, 2011 (3:52 pm)While I have been lambasted here for discussing global warming (and probably will be again), logic dictates prudence. However, when you have these discussions with folks, as you point out, it appears that intransigence is linked to an emotional response on the issue. Time and again, it is pointed out that the human psyche wants to ignore the option if catastrophe is involved. For example, I have heard it stated that the people who LEAST worry about a dam’s collapse are those downstream who live CLOSEST to it.
When emotion rules reason, it is like someone is plugging their ears and chanting, ‘I’m not listening.’ It is hard to overcome such stubbornness with reason. The best you can do is to ask if they have homeowner’s insurance. As most will provide an affirmative response, the immediate follow up is to ask if they REALLY think their house will burn down. Most believe there is almost no chance, but do the prudent thing ‘just in case’.
The corollary is obvious. I think most would agree that there is a greater chance to see oil double in price than have their house burn down. If you have to buy a new car for commuting, might it not be wise to pay a bit more for an EREV AS INSURANCE against steep oil prices? This methodology probably won’t work either with the person arguing with you- but the bystander listening to the conversation might take notice as you have thought the thing through. That bystander might have thought both parties were extremists until this very pragmatic point is made.
Yes, there is a lot of ignorance out there, but we can only try and sway those who will listen- and then hope those who won’t listen now will at least eventually succumb to peer pressure- or government mandate at that point.
It is amazing that the loudest whiners against cigarette smoking bans were establishments of drinking and dining. They claimed it would KILL their business. As the bans went into place and the business DIDN’T disappear, you never heard another peep out of these whiners. I hope it is not too late to get folks to realize that the air outdoors is just as in need of protecting as the air indoors.
Watched a CNBC 60 Minutes episode last night on the coal ash landslide in the Tennessee Valley awhile back. I bet those folks are now firm advocates of renewable energy…
…but I digress…
+4
Feb 9th, 2011 (4:03 pm)5 > 4 but it does not matter. GM will sell all they make for the next couple of years.
+4
Feb 9th, 2011 (4:31 pm)In this state, that would get the driver a ticket.
+2
Feb 9th, 2011 (4:50 pm)Are these comments related? (g)
Feb 9th, 2011 (5:03 pm)I should have specified “Fun Factor WHILE DRIVING”… (smart Alec)(g)
Be well,
Tagamet
+2
Feb 9th, 2011 (5:06 pm)Extra passenger capacity can be a double-edged sword, like being the guy that has a pickup truck.
One needs to balance how often not being able to carry an extra person is a inconvenience versus a bullet-proof excuse. If you need more passenger capacity, it’s a good excuse to let someone else drive and use their car. Sure, every once and a while I need to carry too many passengers. But sometimes even if you can seat five, you need to carry six.
-1
Feb 9th, 2011 (5:10 pm)While I don’t disagree with Mr DiSalle’s statement that middle seats in small to mid size cars are not all that functional and I understand that the Volt needs to be somewhat upscale due to its pricetag, however I disagree with Mr DeSalle’s conclusion that lacking a 5th seat is not a major disadvantage.
I know a lot of small and midsize car buyers for whom a 5th seat is an important feature — even if it’s only to put children or if it is infrequently used.
Feb 9th, 2011 (5:55 pm)Your kindness and generosity overwhelm us.
I say this as a Scout leader who has filled up his minivan with Scouts and gear, on any number of occasions, for 100+ mile trips to various camps and state parks. Mercifully, only a few of these Scouts have parents who seek the bullet-proof excuse. And we’re lucky to have a few parents willing to pull the trailer places… rather than find a bulllet-proof excuse not to.
+2
Feb 9th, 2011 (5:55 pm)I think this is worth repeating…. well said.
+2
Feb 9th, 2011 (6:01 pm)And as if on queue…
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41493997/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa/GT1=43001
20% of a US day’s oil usage now in the hands of Somali pirates. To deny that foreign oil’s days are numbered as our source of transportation is assine. Whether we like it or not, electricity must begin to rule the day.
+1
Feb 9th, 2011 (6:07 pm)I think the same people who complain about not having a 5th seat would be the same ones to complain if it did have 5 seats… they would be saying it adds weight why not making the car a 4 seater and saving the weight to ge more mileage.
The Volt is the best it can be.. other models will be better for more tastes.
+6
Feb 9th, 2011 (6:16 pm)OT – MotorWeek 2011 Driver’s Choice Awards – Chevy Volt Named ‘Best of the Year’
“The team at MotorWeek tests more than 150 vehicles and the awards evaluate factors such as performance, technology, practicality and value. The Volt was recognized as the best overall winner of 13 categories and also won ‘Best Eco-Friendly.’”
Where there is an automobile award, there is a Volt to accept it.
+4
Feb 9th, 2011 (7:40 pm)Looks like I’ll be running against the flow in today’s opinions. I have two small kids ( and strollers, diaper bags and Costco trips ) and when a Volt is available in my state – I will be buying one, and as it was with my Prius purchase – the space issue will be a sacrifice, one I’d rather not make – but we do what we must. I’d rather drive clean and gas-free than risk the dozen or so times per year I’ll have to tell friends and family members they’ll have to take thier own car.
I am the exception, not the rule. Mr. Disalle has to admit that the lack of more usable back seat space will not mean Volts won’t sell. They just won’t sell as many as if it had more seating.
In 2007 we had been waiting 2 years for the Camry-based Toyota Sienna to come out in a hybrid version. Since the Camry Hybrid ( with oh so small trunk due to battery pack ), and the Highlander Hybred ( cramped, more expensive, less mileage and no “magic seat” for 1st gen ) and Prius were our only choices besides the boxy, un-aero Ford Escape Hybrid ( poor mileage per cost – licensced Toyota HSD ) – we decided to wait. Toyota has been making a hybrid minivan since 2001 , the Estima. I drooled at the photos and reviews from Japan of the Estima van and waited patiently for it to come across the pond – until we assessed it never will due to the fact Toyota feels it would cut into Sienna sales.
We relented, and bought the Prius and were amazed at how capacious the car is – Prius is a great lesson in packaging. Toyota pushed the wheels out to the four corners with absolutely no overhang to the bumpers. While this makes handling a bit worse, it does make a seemingly small car rather large inside – the hatch area making it nearly minivan useful. In this way, the Volt is nearly equal. If Volt were a square sedan with traditional trunk, I would have to wait for something else to come along. The center seat in Prius is narrow. If you look at the Prius from the top, you’ll notice it’s wider at the front wheels than at the rear. Toyota made a narrow car narrower towards the rear to aid in aerodynamics. This makes the rear seat cramped at best. Oddly my 2007 Prius’ rear seat is wider and more useful than the Nissan LEAF’s. We placed two booster seats in the rear of a LEAF and there is ZERO chance any human could sit in the center even though Nissan provides a seatbelt there.
The center seating position in Prius has been useful for us. Realistically there has been no more than eight to twelve times per year we have had to use it. Sad, cramped people have strapped into the center space in the rear seat and travelled for short to medium trips and it’s saved our bacon once or twice. That said – we’ll just have to do without it in Volt. Any EV to date comes with it’s inherent sacrifices.
Contrary to many’s optimism here, sales numbers will be affected by the seating issue. The reason being the majority of people seem to buy a car for what it can do, not how they actually will use it. Take JEEPS, 4×4 SUVs and stupidly fast sport coupes and roadsters that the owner never uses for it’s intended purpose – as they’d lose their driver’s license or have to move to Alaska. More energy-dense batteries or an eco version of Volt will provide the ability to open up that space for seating in future Volts, I’m sure. Until then, we can wait for the MPV5 – buy a BYD S6DM ( creepily an exact copy outwardly of the last generation Lexus RX 350 http://www.roadandtrack.com/auto-shows/detroit/2012-byd-s6dm-plug-in ). The four seat sports coupe feel of the current Volt appeals to the mid-life crisis side of me though, and from experience on a test ride, they are snug and side bolstered when you want to take four of your best friends or colleagues on a twisty road to show off it’s ( so much better than Prius ) handling prowess.
If I had a crystal ball, I’d predict I will buy a Voltec MPV or larger hatch ( Tesla Model S ) with more seating someday, and live with the four seats in the present years.
THEY’RE PUMPING OUT THE VOLTS! ,
James
Feb 9th, 2011 (7:47 pm)#58
Here in CA as well for sure. In any state in the Union actually, I believe. +1
+1
Feb 9th, 2011 (7:49 pm)#60
Well that happens sometimes too you know, LOL. Probably more distracting than talking on a cell phone! Anything can probably happen once you start driving a Volt and meeting all of those women who don’t shave their legs.
+2
Feb 9th, 2011 (8:10 pm)In case nobody read my very long post. I’ll condense my main point. Mr. Disalle makes a good argument re: the usage of the center seat in a compact car.
What he doesn’t address is that the mentality of car buyers in general ( not us Volt fans and early EV adopters ) – is they buy a car FOR WHAT IT’S CAPABLE OF, NOT HOW THEY’LL ACTUALLY USE IT. Before you knee-jerk reach for the negative button – I am a marketing person and have been involved in sales my entire life. It’s a known ism in car sales that 90% of all wheel drive crossover buyers and 4X4 truck based SUV owners never take them off road, and many buy them in warm states with no snow and they never leave the suburbs. When polled, they state they bought four wheel drive ” just in case they’d ever need to use it “. Same with sports coupes and sports cars. If the buyer who bought them drove them 0-60 what they’re capable of, they’d lose their drivers licenses and likely do some jail time. Not many sporty car owners take them to the track and beat them silly – esp. when they are still making rather hefty car payments on them. They’re purchased for the image the buyer feels they convey and that they could go fast if they wanted to. Same with seats – they may never haul 5, 6 or 7 people, but they’ll have that capability if they need to.
Paying $40k for a four seat car makes perfect sense to all of us here because we’re fans and what the market calls “early adopters”. For Volt to reach mass appeal, the added utility or PERCIEVED added utility of a rear bench will absolutely need to come to pass.
I’ll buy a Volt and squeeze my family into it – many will not make that sacrifice.
THEY’RE PUMPIN’ OUT THE VOLTS! ,
James
+1
Feb 9th, 2011 (8:17 pm)Just another
goodgreat reason for a Voltec HHR!
Feb 9th, 2011 (8:23 pm)I rode in the back twice and I was surprised at the space back there. A 6’2″ friend was riding next to me and his legs weren’t hitting the drivers seat and he felt comfortable.
VoltinME,
Feb 9th, 2011 (8:35 pm)Your point being? I mean, nobody bought many of those, did they? I’d say that supports my point.
Feb 9th, 2011 (8:36 pm)Really? Why? Is there a safety issue?
Not actually owning car, and not being a parent, I had no idea. Are kids supposed to have their own seats? Do you need child seats for ten-year olds?
Feb 9th, 2011 (8:46 pm)I can’t justify or argue the merits of the law but we think child restraint is important enough aspect of safety that we bought separate air tickets and brought along a safety seat for children the airline would allow on a lap. Yes, the kid on the lap instead of in a seat would save us some money but it wasn’t a good tradeoff.
As far as the law on children in cars here goes, it’s one seatbelt per person and children under a certain age or size (can’t recall the exact requirements – mine are grown) get a safety seat.
From a practical perspective, a child on a lap is not a restrained child.
Until a couple of years ago, failure to wear a seatbelt here couldn’t trigger a traffic stop but you could be cited for the seatbelt if you were stopped. Now, it is justification for a stop. I don’t know if an unrestrained child is justificatino for a stop but I would guess that it is.
Feb 9th, 2011 (8:51 pm)I think homeowner’s insurance is a requirement for a lot of mortgages. Otherwise I suspect a lot of people would gladly forgo the expense. Which is, basically, the justification for the government going into offer below market rate insurance for homeowners in risky areas. Personally, I don’t think the government should be in the business of encouraging development of high risk housing, but there it is.
That said, I agree about the price of oil. It’s amazing how much gas costs in spite of unemployment levels. And yet no one seems to notice. Although the crisis du jour seems to be grain, so…
Feb 9th, 2011 (8:54 pm)No seat belt.
Feb 9th, 2011 (9:01 pm)Here goes. Here’s the Washington State child restraint law:
Washington’s New Child Restraint Law
Effective June 1, 2007, children less than eight years old must be restrained in child restraint systems, unless the child is four feet nine inches or taller. A child who is eight years old or older, or four feet nine inches or taller, must be properly restrained either with the motor vehicle’s safety belt or an appropriately fitting child restraint system. Children under thirteen years old must be transported in rear seats where it is practical to do so.
The fine for improperly restrained children in motor vehicles is at least $112 per child.
Yes, you will be pulled over for non-use of booster seats or infant restraint seats for toddlers and babies. There is often a weight requirement mentioned also for booster seats. I believe it is 70lbs. and below require a booster seat – yet that may differ from state to state. Every state requires cars have the LATCH system, which is a cleat between the back rest and lower seat bolted to the car’s steel structure. You “latch” onto this with today’s modern baby seats and booster seats for older kids. Putting kids in the front seat is ludicrous – yet you do see it every now and then…it’s as stupid as those folks you see lounging in the front seats of cars and vans with their feet up on the dash!!!! – I’ve often pulled up to a light and asked them to roll down their windows and tell them what would happen to them when the airbag deploys…
As a father of two beautiful little girls, it’s to my utmost priority to keep them safe and sound. I struggle with the backseat nap – as my girls fall asleep the second the car gets rolling sometimes esp. if I use my secret weapon: “SMOOTH JAZZ”!!!! heh heh… Problem is, they sag their heads over the lap belt and every parent out there knows what I am saying. You always drive as if on feathers because you don’t want the kids to get whiplash in case of an emergency stop or accident! Ford really will gain market share with their exclusive inflatable lap belts they introduced in 2011 Taurus and Explorers. I’m hoping GM and all others implement those as well, ASAP.
James
Feb 9th, 2011 (9:05 pm)I hadn’t thought of it like that. I would never not buy a seat for a child on an airplane.
I’m pretty sure they were old enough to not need a child safety seat since it was their father’s car, and he didn’t even seem to have one. You’re probably right. Even though we were wearing a seat belt, it probably wasn’t safe. I just didn’t think about it. Basically, I just assumed that if there were any safety issues, her parents would have brought it up…
Feb 9th, 2011 (9:06 pm)We were wearing a seat belt. It went over both of us. Although, in retrospect, I’m not sure how much that helped. That’s probably not what the seat belt was designed for…
Feb 9th, 2011 (9:16 pm)Yup. LOL
Feb 9th, 2011 (9:18 pm)Trust me. Not every parents feels the way you do. It was her father’s idea. And he didn’t even have a child safety seat. At least not one that I saw. But then again there a lot things he did with his kids that I definitely wouldn’t if I were a parent. Which isn’t to say he’s a bad father. He’s just not as careful or as health conscious as I am.
But thank you for the information. It will be useful once I (hopefully) have my own kids.
Feb 9th, 2011 (9:46 pm)While we’re on the subject, when are you taking delivery of your “hairy chick magnet”? Should be getting close.
Feb 9th, 2011 (10:29 pm)The Boston Power Swing 4400 battery is about 500 Wh/l right now and a denser version slated for 2012. 10 usable kWh should fit in about a 5 gallon volume, less than the difference between the Volt’s tank and the Cruz.
The armor plated T won’t be a problem for long.
Until then, does anybody remember the Chevy Monza 2+2? Ready made ad copy!
+11
Feb 9th, 2011 (10:38 pm)#555
Feb 9th, 2011 (11:11 pm)So is that a hairy magnet or a magnet that attracts hairy chicks?
Be well,
Tagamet
Feb 9th, 2011 (11:30 pm)You’d be surprised at how many parents don’t take their responsibility seriously.
+1
Feb 9th, 2011 (11:35 pm)Yes. The “Iron Duke” engine in mine self-destructed at about 80K miles.
-1
Feb 10th, 2011 (1:22 am)You can put 3 car seats in Leaf.
http://busymommymedia.com/2010/12/putting-the-nissan-leaf-to-the-test/
Feb 10th, 2011 (1:41 am)Very cool.
Feb 10th, 2011 (1:43 am)I guess I should have used those Teutonic hyphens. LOL I’m stoked that Noel is getting a Volt. After him we’ll really only have YOU to worry about.
+2
Feb 10th, 2011 (1:59 am)You’re pushing it by suggesting he’s mistaken. As a practical matter he’s right. The article says you can put three car seats in the back of the Leaf IF AND ONLY IF all three are the ones she had to special order for the specific purpose of getting the narrowest car seats made. According to the article even one ordinary car seat will kill the ability to have three car seats across.
Obviously James just took the couple of car seats his family uses and had a go at it. And obviously it didn’t work.
You could probably get a custom car seat to fit over the hump in the Volt but that wouldn’t make the Volt a five-seater.
Feb 10th, 2011 (5:28 am)I don’t understand the people who complain that the Volt doesn’t have a 5th seat. If you need a 5th seat then the Volt is not for you. Eventually there will be a EREV minivan or crossover – you’ll just have to wait a little while.
+4
Feb 10th, 2011 (5:50 am)I remember well a conversation with GM’s Tony Posawatz and Tim Greig (Volt Interior Designer), after closely examining the Camaro-like Volt concept car at VoltNation in NYC three years ago. Like the production car, the Volt concept had 4 separate bucket seats —all 4 with an armrest for BOTH arms. I said to Tony & Tim how much I LIKED the fact the two rear-seat passengers could enjoy seats/armrests as comfortable as the front seat passengers by contrast to the usual bench seat in the rear, which is less comfortable even to the two door-side passengers than bucket seats …and decidedly LESS COOL! I told them I LOVED it and hoped it might start a trend now that families are becoming smaller year-after-year, i.e., like front buckets replaced front benches decades ago, reducing the average car from 6 to 5 passengers.
And from an interior styling viewpoint, as well as comfort, “buckets in the back” are really COOL! In fact, I really think rear bucket seats improve both comfort and styling enough to more than offset the loss of a 5th seat in terms of lost sales —which is exactly why front bench seats began dis-
appearing long ago.
IOW, I’d like the Volt interior a LOT LESS if it had a conventional bench seat in back!
.
+3
Feb 10th, 2011 (6:58 am)I too am stoked about Noel’s Volt! Worrying about *my* Volt would be an epic undertaking. Oops, we try not to use words like “Undertaking” (g). As I type this, I’m about to jaunt off to my part-time job. Thursdays are my “big” payday (and at this time of year I only *work* Thursdays). Take-home pay for 7 hours is $53.03 (lol, but true). Let’s see, $41,000/53.03 =…. (g) Seriously, when the weather breaks I A) get more days/week (but less $ per day) and B) pick up a second part-time job. The nice thing is that around here a cup of coffee still costs .25 (it used to be a dime), so the big bucks get to stay in the mason jar. After spending 34 years working with special ability kids, I’ve developed a remarkable ability to delay gratification. God willing, “all” I have to do is live long enough (lol).
It’ll happen.
Be well,
Tagamet
“When the wind fails, take to the oars!”
Feb 10th, 2011 (12:01 pm)I have not had the opportunity to sit in a Volt yet. A 4 seater car would meet our needs. I would not want a 4 seat car if I were not comfortable in the back, for example if I have to turn my feet sideways to exit the car or if I can’t shift or flex my legs some while I’m in the back. Since the car has alot of exposure threw the back window, I would need to have a quality infra red reflective window tint installed in this car for sure. Bottom line, if I am comfortable in any seat and I like the vehicle and we can afford it then we would consider buying it.
Feb 10th, 2011 (2:10 pm)ATL-John
No I am purchasing from Don Hewlett just outside of Austin, TX.
Jim Ellis was not very informative on that information. I guess it was because they already have more deposits than they know what to do with. John Thornton Chevy would be my next choice in the Metro Atl area. My brother has bought from them before. Of course my local dealer would be my first choice but that will be 4th quarter. I don’t want to wait.
Feb 10th, 2011 (3:28 pm)Ok. Thanks for the info.
Feb 15th, 2011 (6:55 pm)DiSalle makes an excellent point in saying that the middle seat will not be missed. I personally dislike sitting in the middle seat. Also, most cars that do seat three in the back do so at the expense of comfort. The rear passengers have to squeeze together just to shut the door in some cars. As well, the T-shaped battery design is very innovative and ensures a better weight balance throughout the car.
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