I just returned from Detroit, having had my first chance ever to take the Volt on the open road for two days of extensive driving. On the first day, just after touching down, I got to drive a production Chevrolet Volt from the Detroit airport out to Rochester Michigan to the hotel journalists are staying for the Volt launch drive event. I was on the first wave of journalists with about a dozen others. There will be six waves in all each with about 20 reporters. Expect a persistent stream of Volt news over the next week or so. This event is considered the Chevrolet Volt media launch.
GM had nine final production Volts waiting for us to drive, which we did in pairs of two journalists along with one member of the Volt staff. It was set up as a contest to see who could get the most EV range. It will continue through the waves.
The distance of the drive was 45.9 miles, and I personally took the car for the first 20 with another reporter driving it the second half of the way. We began with a full battery.
This was the first time I was fully allowed to drive and operate the Volt extensively on public roads. For my part I chose to be careful with the pedal and brakes and to indulge in the pleasures of efficiency.
I found the car to be bright, technical and cheerful as always. The leather seats were comfortable and sturdy and the car was adequately spacious inside though not overly roomy. It was the first time I had seen a final-textured interior surface and found it was well done and gave forth a refined appeal.
On this first journey, I intentionally didn’t gun the car, I accelerated modestly, coasted once in a while, and often kicked into low gear to utilize motor braking. The car handled and glided smoothly, swiftly and silently with crisp, immediate and perky torque and a highly responsive throttle. It steered like it was floating on air.
When I started out the battery indicator showed 39 miles of range remained. The surprisingly warm temperature outside ranged from 78 to 83 degrees and so I had to use the air conditioning. I kept it at 76 degrees F and used the ECO mode HVAC setting at which the car was quite comfortable. I turned off the daytime running lights and didn’t use the radio.
Within a few miles of driving my remaining range had actually climbed to 41. The roads were mostly flat and I drove at around 45 MPH, with minimal traffic and few stops.
After covering 19.2 miles the meter indicated I still had 31 miles of range remaining. Had I continued for the whole trip at that style of driving I would have easily passed 50 miles of range. Volt director Tony Posawatz in the car with me said I was “on track for more than 55 miles” of range. Tony said EV ranges beyond that (though he wouldn’t be specific) had been achieved by several engineers using captured test fleet vehicles.
The second driver, however was considerably more lead- footed and less careful about braking. By the time we arrived at our destination we had traversed 45.9 miles and the meter said we still had 3 miles left, for an effective 49 miles of EV range with our mixed driving styles. We came in tied for 3rd place in the field of the nine pairs of journalists. The winner of our wave arrived with 8 miles EV range remaining on his meter.
This real world test indicated there was little doubt one could easily regularly achieve 50 miles or more of electric range with little effort in an extremely efficient, super technological and fun-to-drive car. Achieving 40 miles of range will likely be the norm.
Soon I will share with you my second day if driving in which I covered over 150 miles on Michigan roads on both EV and extended range mode, and even hypermiled a bit
This entry was posted on Wednesday, October 13th, 2010 at 12:01 am and is filed under Efficiency, Test drive. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
+48
Oct 13th, 2010 (12:16 am)Near 50 miles electric. This higher than expected EV mileage is good news and is well offsets the somewhat lower CS mileage being reported. This further solidifies the value of this car if this mileage is indeed representative.
+7
Oct 13th, 2010 (12:17 am)Excellent! Don’t keep us waiting too long for your 2nd day driving report.
+45
Oct 13th, 2010 (12:42 am)50 Miles electric range electric car, made by a major US company, who needs gas anymore?
Build more wind / photovoltaic power and let the Middle East go find somebody else to…
+12
Oct 13th, 2010 (12:46 am)Normally, people don’t drive this way. But it shows how much potential EV range the Volt has. This is a good rebuttal of those sub-par mileage/efficiency numbers that’s coming from the media these days.
The next week will be a dream for us Volt fanatics. Wake up and go to sleep with Volt news. Beautiful.
+5
Oct 13th, 2010 (12:52 am)Thanks Lyle for this encouraging news. What fun it will be to attempt maximum EV mileage from a daily charge while avoiding gas stations for an extended range of time.
+14
Oct 13th, 2010 (12:54 am)If the Volt can really go beyond 50 miles that would be awesome and maybe someday, someone can go beyond the 50 mile range and maybe it could go into the Guinness World Records book sometime in the future that could prove the trolls wrong that you might be able to go further than 50 miles on electric range before going into gas mode and I do want to say a couple more things. I hope all auto dealers will in the future teach everyday citizens how to drive less aggressively, more efficiently and to be safer on the road while reducing crash fatality rates when it comes to driving on the road. Everybody agree?
+2
Oct 13th, 2010 (12:56 am)This is going to be FUN! Lyle, after so long it’s great that you’ll get some real “butt in the seat” time before your own Volt appears in your driveway. Can’t wait for the daily update.
Stay safe and NO TICKETS!
+11
Oct 13th, 2010 (1:04 am)Actually I meant all drivers ed classes in the country.My mistake. When it comes to driving less aggressively,more efficiently,and to be safer on the road just to say. Let’s get the Volt wheels on the road!
+4
Oct 13th, 2010 (1:11 am)Can’t,
Stop,
Smiling!!!
+8
Oct 13th, 2010 (1:26 am)Just getting the advertised 40 miles would have been good. It’s nice to hear of something going up in spec rather than having had to compromise and under deliver. A full 10 miles extra which can actually be achieved under a modest driving style is a really positive piece of news. Enjoy the rest of your trip. I’m very keen to know how CS mode performs under like driving styles.
+32
Oct 13th, 2010 (2:04 am)Hey trolls, it looks like GM under promised and over delivered on that pure battery provided driving range. First rate!
Measuring my slow poke senior citizen life style I concluded my daily drives around my home town in southern California in a Volt will virtually never see me drive into a gas station except perhaps to put a little air in the tires.
BIG BTRY
+6
Oct 13th, 2010 (2:11 am)Well, for me, I NEED my radio.. I would drive with the windows opened at the speeds you were driving (no AC) sooooooo I think you would have still been over the 50 mile number with ease.
It appears you had a great trip and this car will treat almost any driver to the style they wish to drive.
Chevy has a “neat” car on their hands for people to enjoy. And it happens to be “electric” :+]
+4
Oct 13th, 2010 (2:12 am)Great news! Volt fans, this is marketing month and we need to keep the good word out. There are many critics out there trying to say bad things like, “GM going into defense mode over lies…” and the such. Man, that’s just not right.
Hit those forums, post those notes and balance the negative with the truth.
Great job Lyle and keep up the great work of helping with that balance. I just have one question. Did you tell all of your patients that you are sick and won’t be available for the next few months or so? If not, that’s what good assistances are for!
This kind of sounds like a political rally but guess what, it is! Like it or not, this is history being made. Do we as humans start to reduce our fossil few use or not? Do we have the right tools to do that (Volt, EVs, trains, etc.) or not?
-137
Oct 13th, 2010 (2:34 am)(click to show comment)
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (2:41 am)Real good real news!
Thanks Mr Dennis!
+28
Oct 13th, 2010 (2:48 am)Normal people don’t drive this way! Not so. When you drive a Honda hybrid or a Prius you soon change your driving behaviour and method to get the most out of the car and to fully achieve the reasons for your purchase choice. It seems reasonable to do the same for the Volt.
+2
Oct 13th, 2010 (3:03 am)This is fantastic news! Thanks for sharing, Lyle!
Also, I’m leaving today to get ready to test drive the Volt on Thursday in San Francisco. Will report back with my impressions, and hopefully some answers to your questions.
+4
Oct 13th, 2010 (3:43 am)Sweet….too bad you couldn’t drive the whole circuit and snag the win.
+3
Oct 13th, 2010 (4:14 am)Nice to see some real driving numbers from lyle.
Though I wish you’d done a more realistic test. Leave the radio on and the DRL.
DRL are there as a safety feature.. don’t want to condone disabling that to get an extra half-mile, do we?
+3
Oct 13th, 2010 (4:59 am)Good going Lyle. Sounds like 40 miles via 120V home outlet plug-in is a solid reality. Eagerly awaiting results from a similar CS run. Would also like to hear more reviews of operating with the shift in L regen mode. Seems L regen mode should be used all the time. Is there a reason it shouldn’t be?
=D-Volt
-49
Oct 13th, 2010 (5:19 am)(click to show comment)
+6
Oct 13th, 2010 (5:42 am)My interpretation from the “How the Volt Works” video is that for steep inclines and high accelerations at high speed, the ICE will come on to assist the electric motor. Bintoo seemed to notice this on his test drive last week.
However, with adequate reserve in the battery, it should drive purely on electric power at steady speeds until the battery is depleted, even at 100 mph.
This is another issue that needs clarification.
+2
Oct 13th, 2010 (5:46 am)The only downside to L mode that I know of is that the braking effect is more dramatic, and as such, will just take a little getting used to. It’s even a plus, for congested traffic because it allows the driver to just concentrate on the “gas pedal” (I guess that that’s now *really* an accelerator pedal)!
Be well,
Tagamet
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (5:48 am)Seems GM’s genius has gone beyond engineering and has now moved into marketing. After this event, all of these journalists will know to ask anyone who gets sub par results from a Volt, man, how did you drive that thing?
+4
Oct 13th, 2010 (5:49 am)Congrats Lyle, for your excellent CD mileage on your 1st drive on public roads —I’m jealous!!!
I’m pretty sure you’ll find that the DRLs are LEDs, therefore use almost negligible power. I do know that the Volt’s Bose radio/sound system is a new high-efficiency design just for Volt that operates in “Class D” (digital) that uses minimal power even at very loud listening levels.* So use the Volt’s DRLs & enjoy that high-end, 7-speaker sound system! The power consumed by both should be very little more than the measurement errors in determining CS mpg and CD range. (However, you are wise to use ECO mode for the AC —the HVAC “comfort” mode is likely pretty power hungry when compared to the DRLs & sound system.)
/*Tony Posawatz can verify whether my understanding here is correct (or not).
+14
Oct 13th, 2010 (5:51 am)For heavens sake, WHY???? Yesterdays visit to the tower of Babelers was plenty for me.
JMO.
Be well,
Tagamet
/off to work
+3
Oct 13th, 2010 (6:02 am)Great work, Lyle!
At moderate speeds and low auxiliary power consumption, it appears that 50 mpc is definately achieveable.
In this link, the folks at MotorTrend drove 122 miles in 100 F temps in CA and drove some mountainous roads to Mojave. They got 36.3 miles AER, and then got an overall average of 74.6 mpg.
http://blogs.motortrend.com/6719595/green/127-mpg-this-volt-story-must-be-told/index.html
The CS mode portion of the trip calculates to 52.4 mpg.
We will be anxiously awaiting your report on CS mode mpg!!
+8
Oct 13th, 2010 (6:07 am)It would have been nice if you could have ditched those two sacks of dead weight and slowed down to 20mph, with the windows closed and the ac off.. and the fan off too
modern cars have very effective passive air circulation systems.
3 hours later a victorious Dr Lyle pulls in to the parking lot of the hotel
+3
Oct 13th, 2010 (6:17 am)Nice report. To me it looks like GM has designed a state of the art commuter car but with competent road tripping abilities. Looking forward to the rest of the report.
I wonder what the rate of deceleration is when in “L” mode. Love the idea of driving aggressively in city traffic in “L” and recouping all that energy.
However, I’m assuming that the brake lights are not activated during L-deceleration. Is there any risk to tailgaters (and the rear bumper)? So many people yakking on cell phones and texting these days…kinda scares me.
+2
Oct 13th, 2010 (6:28 am)You are correct. The brake lights do not illuminate during regen deceleration.
“…any risk to tailgaters. ”
GM engineering was asked this very question during the Dodger Stadium demo drives. The response is GM uses less regen decel on the Volt than Tesla does on the Roadster. The rate of decel doesn’t raise a need for brake light illumination.
A Yahoo search of ‘Tesla braking problems’ is clear of issues with regenerative decel.
=D-Volt
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (6:51 am)The “Volt smile” is spreading.
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (6:53 am)Lyle you quite likey passed my house on the way to Rochester.
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (6:53 am)WOP linked this one late in yesterday’s thread. It sounds great and I hope it’s accurate but I think they had to have made a mistake. They also said they took it to over 100mph on this drive. The numbers are just too far off from GM’s stated ranges. I’m guessing they are quoting lifetime mpg or didn’t reset the trip gauge. Either way, it was an extremely positive review from a “tradition” car magazine.
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (6:58 am)Thanks for the great report Lyle. Looking forward to some vicarious fun in the next couple weeks!
The 60-mile club will most certainly have a lot of members. Sounds like a fairly easy thing to do.
As far as braking using ‘L’, there are people in my commute that drive stick-shift and autostick (I drive using autostick). I don’t see any more danger with non-brake-light deceleration than with those idiots that constantly tap the brakes. Following someone that follows too close is more dangerous than ‘L’ mode to me.
Stick it in ‘L’ and drive!
+11
Oct 13th, 2010 (7:02 am)Okay, to L with it.
=D-Volt
Oct 13th, 2010 (7:03 am)What are the roads like in that part of the country? I have not been there, so I really don’t know. Are they generally flat, or is it a hilly type terrain?
I am just trying to get a feel for what the road conditions were compared to the ranges achieved.
I also wonder if any of those cars went into CS mode, or did they all make it CD mode?
Inquiring minds want to know!!!!
Good report Lyle.
Thanks.
Oct 13th, 2010 (7:09 am)Oh, and Lyle, when you visit the GM headquarters in the RenCenn you are just two blocks from where I work at the Compuware building.
Oct 13th, 2010 (7:11 am)Very Cool!
+2
Oct 13th, 2010 (7:14 am)Thank you Lyle for this informative post. Keep it coming!
Only 28 days left!
NPNS!
+3
Oct 13th, 2010 (7:21 am)The All Electric Range has always been one of my biggest concerns with this car, and its ability to win hearts and minds in the marketplace. I have always felt that GM would have to over-shoot the 40 mile AER target in most typical driving situations to be able to market this car effectively. It is such a relief to see that it appears they have done just that.
Great job on this GM!
Oct 13th, 2010 (7:23 am)Very interesting. This implies to me that there is some additional regen energy that could be captured with an even more aggressive setting. I suppose in the hands of the average driver, this would be dangerous…and of course use of “Super-L” would require brake light activation.
Lobac can add this to his list of tuner hacks.
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (7:24 am)No mountains in this part of the world, but Rochester MI has a bit more hills than many neighborhoods. Just ran a half marathon that had some decent uphills on Tienken Road out of Rochester. A good mix of straight and curves also. Road “conditions” in Michigan are often rough as in “disrepair”. For about 5 years there has been a lot of catch-up construction, and an example of this would be 1.5 miles of torn up roads on Rochester Road going from Troy toward Rochester (I live just .5 mile west of where the construction ends at the North end).
Oct 13th, 2010 (7:28 am)I presume, Lyle that you did not use freeways from the airport to Rochester? Else the average speed might be a bit higher? Curious how that would affect electric range.
+8
Oct 13th, 2010 (7:33 am)#14 “The Volt is just a HYBRID and not an electric car at all.”
Are you out of your mind? Dr. Lyle just drove 49 miles without using a drop of gasoline. “IF” he had needed an extra burst of speed…above 70mph….he might have used a tiny amount of gasoline….but he chose to drive THE SPEED LIMIT. For the vast majority of people who desire to use as little gasoline as possible….the Volt is the ultimate vehicle. If you happen to be “loony”….and drive like a madman everywhere you go…..you will still use far less fuel than in the vast majority of other cars out there. Admit it….GM has “HOME RUN” on their hands….when I get my Volt in a few years….I will be smiling all the way past every gas station I pass.
GM has OBVIOUSLY over delivered with regard to EV mileage……. OH HAPPY DAY!
PS: As far as I know….there is no place in my state of Pennsylvania where I can LEGALLY drive 70mph…..so I suspect the ICE will rarely if ever, directly power my Volt! BRILLIANT!
+8
Oct 13th, 2010 (7:38 am)Engadget and motor trend have it wrong if they think the ice is engaged above 70mph in cd mode. What *might* be true is that Both electric machines (
The “motor” and the “generator”) can be coupled together above 70 to work together. For greater cd efficiency.
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (7:40 am)Wow, leaning that much harder to the Volt over the Leaf now. Though it may come down to which is available in Ohio first (also which lease charges less per additional miles).
50 mile range with careful driving is exceptional. I still would want to top it off at work most days, but my round trip to work is 56 miles. I’m one of those that would enjoy the challenge of optimizing my range. But most days I don’t go straight home and topping off at work would allow me to do my side trips and get home without using any gas almost all the time.
I had thought I’d be able to achieve 15-18000 miles AER yearly, but with this report I now think I will be able to achieve well over 20,000 miles AER.
Of course now we’ll have to see how much this range is depleted after 4 years and 80,000 miles.
But I plan to lease and drive 3 years and 60,000+ miles.
+3
Oct 13th, 2010 (7:41 am)Has any GM Engineer spoken about the rate of charge depletion at different speeds?
Like:
Speed 20 mph – time in CD mode 150 minutes.
Speed 30 mph – time in CD mode 110 minutes.
Speed 40 mph – time in CD mode 85 minutes.
Speed 50 mph – time in CD mode 65 minutes.
I’d like to see a graph of the above to answer the question. What is the optimal speed for maximum range in CD mode?
NPNS!
+2
Oct 13th, 2010 (7:46 am)Thank you Lyle for some great news. I knew with the way I drive I’d be able to get 50+ EV miles in the Volt. The car is turning out to be even better than advertised!
+3
Oct 13th, 2010 (7:57 am)This is based on a little model I’ve been working on. The values presented here are based on the power drawn from the battery. In other words, this is the power required at the wheels plus a 15% drivetrain loss of the transmission and electric motor. The losses could could be more or less, but 15% is an estimate.
Essentially, the slower you go, the less Whr/mile you will use.
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (7:58 am)Actually, I drive my Impala gently all time. My round trip to work of 43 miles, routinely garner’s me an average of 30mpg.
But, regarding Lyle’s report, this is very encouraging news, for a GM fanboy like myself.
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:02 am)“This real world test indicated there was little doubt one could easily regularly achieve 50 miles or more of electric range with little effort in an extremely efficient, super technological and fun-to-drive car. Achieving 40 miles of range will likely be the norm.”
Excellent report Lyle … and excellent news for real world results. As we’ve said many times on this site, the true value of the VOLT and GM’s VOLTEC technology will only begin to be truly appreciated once word of real world results start to spread. This week is a good beginning!
+2
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:02 am)OK Lyle,
When are you going to give up who your lead-footed co-pilot was?
I’m gonna guess it was some Auto Writer Performance Freak who measures his life in 0-60.
Tell me if I’m wrong, but most people who will buy the Volt, or Leaf or Coda aren’t looking to drag race Jimmy Dean from the corner of Hollywood and Vine.
To wit, I will go with your driving style any day of the week over some glossy magazine or newspaper column writer.
C’mon, c’mon, give him up.
+3
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:04 am)To reiterate many of the comments above, being able to achieve 50 miles on a charge is great to hear. Personally, I can drive to and from work, then my wife can drive to/from her evening job without the ICE kicking in – fantastic!
Lyle – I would really appreciate it if you can find out the roll-out schedule for those of us not in the initial markets. The anticipation is killing me!
Enjoy the ride.
+2
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:09 am)Great news Lyle. I am so excited…I too cannot stop my Volt Smile. After the book I read “Twilight in the Desert” and the movie I just saw “Crude Awakening” I cannot wait to get my Volt as it seems peak oil is upon us. The book was written in 2005 and the movie 2006. If you are still driving a gas car much longer the news is not good.
Take Care,
TED
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:11 am)I agree that the “How the Volt Works” video is ambiguous on whether this applies only to CS mode. As I recall, Bintoo’s comment was that soon after this happened the driver display switched over to CS mode.
On the other hand, Andrew Farah was adamant in an audio interview with a blogger yesterday that the gas engine comes on only after the battery is depleted (or perhaps nearly depeleted if you try to suddenly suck ~100kw out of it). It’s around 20 minutes long and worth listening to.
You can find the audio for the interview linked off of the following blog post:
http://scobleizer.com/2010/10/12/chevy-volts-chief-engineer-says-this-aint-no-hybrid/
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:13 am)While I agree that leaving the DRLs on is probably a good idea (who even knew you could turn them off??), the energy they’d use in ~50 miles is probably worth less than 1/20th of a mile of electromotive power. Just sayin’.
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:21 am)Picture this scenario hypermilers:
-One person, driver, in car only
-Steady state 40 mph with aggressive regen low gear applied every 2-3 minutes from 40 to say 25 mph
-All accessories off and windows up
-Tailwind
Predicted results–70+ mile range.
Bring it on Volt!!
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:24 am)1. 40+ miles and routinely getting 50 miles EV on their 1st Generation Volt suggest to me this is the platform for the future. It’s a matter of time before others jump on it and offer variants of this same Plug In Hybrid.
In 2015 we could easily have..
Option1 … Performance Volt / Fusion / Accord / etc. More acceleration / power with 40- 50 mile ev range
Option 2 … Economy Volt / Fusion / Accord / etc. Standard power with 50 + miles of ev range.
The GREAT part of this platform is the manufacturer can play mix and match with the electric motors, but possible keep the ICE, batteries and other aspects the same.
Go VOLT
+4
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:26 am)49 miles in all electric mode, with a load and some A/C.
GM under-promised and over-delivered.
The wise ones one this site new this would be the case all along.
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:28 am)While in EV mode, no gasoline will be used above 70 mph.
(I wonder if the officer will tear up the speeding ticket if I can prove the VOLT was in EV mode? “Officer, I wasn’t using any fuel, sir!”)
+3
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:28 am)Tesla has a similar graph based on measured results on the Roadster. It shows 15-20 MPH as the most efficient speed and anything less rapidly loses.
Here’s their chart:
The full blog post has lots of other interesting info on where the watts get spent for their car. The link is:
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/roadster-efficiency-and-range
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:32 am)For every deceleration event, you will have an equal acceleration event. On flat ground, steady state driving at 40 mph will provide better range than decel to 25 and acel back to 40 mpg. A ton of energy is lost if you have to brake, even with regen capability.
According to my model the rolling resistance losses are greater than aero losses at speeds below about 45 mph or so. I was surprised that the break-even speed was that high.
Regardless, 8000 whrs of battery capacity should provide about 50 miles AER.
Sounds like GM is using more than 8000 whrs of capacity, however.
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:38 am)“Tesla has a similar graph based on measured results on the Roadster. It shows 15-20 MPH as the most efficient speed and anything less rapidly loses.”
Cool. Very similar values, though I didn’t try to model motor inefficiencies at very low speeds. My model is based on the simple fundamentals of rolling resistance and aero resistance, with assumptions made on various drivetrain (in)efficiencies.
I’m just doing this stuff in Excel and haven’t attempted to model regen or drive cycles. I don’t have the software or experience in that area.
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:40 am)Seems all that’s left now is to get the “number of people who can buy one/number of people who want one”, up to an equivalent level of performance as the car.
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:40 am)Who will be the first to hypermile past 100 miles EV range ?
Tom
+5
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:41 am)…and also 6,8 (from Sean)
I can no longer find the link, but I read about this a year ago. I am the kind of guy who got 100,000+ miles out of a pair of brakes in an old Roadmaster and gets a bit distressed to see all matter of aggressive driving. But better days are coming. The study from a year ago showed that, in general, most drivers will do better- even in their existing cars- when they get instantaneous feedback from the car on how they are doing. As more of these cars provide things like the efficiency ball (on the Volt), the population will get better will jackrabbit starts and delayed braking.
Unfortunately, drivers ed will do little to solve this problem. I taught him well, but my son, over time, migrated into bad habits. He would depart our house everyday and too strongly accelerate up to the corner. You could hear the engine. But it wasn’t like he would have to squeal on the brakes or anything (the corner is only 3 houses away). However, as soon as he started driving the Prius (with performance feedback), he changed his habits to challenge himself.
Auto companies are charged with increasing overall fleet mpg. I wish they would learn that installation of such feedback systems would help them accomplish their goals- from Priuses to Silverados- all vehicles need this.
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:42 am)I will drive more like driver #2 so OMG I might only get the 40 all electric miles. Good news most days I drive less then 30 miles. Sport mode here I come. ;>)
+2
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:47 am)Grid power is like the cheap gas of the sixties, why not use it for having fun while you still can!
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:52 am)Agreed. There are a lot of conflicting reports right now. Perhaps there is ICE assist in ‘sport mode’ or ‘mountain mode’ regardless of battery state? That would make sense and help the car appeal to a wider audience.
Frankly GM isn’t doing themselves any favors insisting that the Volt is an EV when by the strictest definition, it isn’t. How often the engine assists is just the degree to which their statements are a falsehood.
That doesn’t mean that the Volt isn’t an incredible car that will work for nearly all people and hugely reduce gasoline consumption. It will. But with all of the combined brains at GM, you’d think they would have see this semantic issue and create a whole new term for the car. They keep talking about how unique the Volt drivetrain is. Maybe “electric-eco-drive” or something more imaginative. Then we can all go back to being happy.
+2
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:52 am)That’s a nice graph but I’d still like to see one based on real world data where the x axis is speed in mph and the y axis is time in minutes in CD mode. I’d like to see that starting at 0 mph. Meaning if I turned the Volt on and just let it sit there how long before the battery is depleted to the point where the ICE would need to come on.
On a full charge, if I turn on my cell phone and don’t use it, the charge will last 7 days.
Another cool graph would be to see the rate of charge depletion at different temperatures.
On a full charge, how long will the Volts battery keep that charge above the 30% SOC if not plugged in, just sitting in different temperatures?
NPNS!
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:53 am)OK folks, help me to remember (I could look it up, but the topic is worthy of discussion). What matter of HEADlights are on the Volt? While many TAILlights are shifting to LED, headlights are often still inefficient. I routinely turn off my DRL, as they are a bigger draw than most people know (remember the old hand crank experiment from grade school?). However, if Volt has LED headlights, I will let them run ad nauseum. LED lights are ten times as efficient and indeed, the mileage sacrifice would be negligible.
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:55 am)Also, the tuners can play mix-n-match with the computer controls and replacement components.
Look up Diablo Predator.
+2
Oct 13th, 2010 (9:03 am)Great news from Lyle. The focus on range in these Volt stories must be rattling the cages of anti-GM, anti-Volt EV purists who up to now have been pooh-poohing the issue of range anxiety. Well boys and girls, range clearly IS an issue of concern, as we are now finding out.
It’s going to be quite interesting when this tidal wave of journalists finish up with the Volt and move on to the LEAF. Doubtful any more 299 mile trips in the mountains and deserts will be attempted…
And how will they adjust to not having any backup to the battery when they run it down to zero charge? Their experience with the Volt has given it benchmark status. Will they come down hard on the LEAF for its more limited utility? Will the LEAF website be suggesting how the LEAF should be ‘fixed’ if and when testers find it won’t guarantee 100 miles of range per charge?
Stay tuned… this is all getting more and more fun and interesting each day.
+5
Oct 13th, 2010 (9:04 am)Train conductor as he shews a laggard away: “Move along now, this crowd wants to board the train to the Volt launch! Your just being a nuisance so get out of the way. And don’t fall on the track! This train will run you over.”
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (9:05 am)Fair point! Last I heard, Volt’s headlights were “normal” headlamps … halogens or whatnot. Not LED. However, not every car uses the headlights as its DRLs. Unfortunately I don’t know if the Volt uses its running lights, headlights, some dedicated LEDs, or something else for its DRLs.
Authoritative answer, anybody?
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (9:09 am)============================
Thanks Bud!!
The roads here around Youngstown, OH are more hilly, so I expect the AER to take a hit, but with my driving patterns I still expect to only use 1 – 1.5 gallons of gasoline per week.
I am happy!
+2
Oct 13th, 2010 (9:13 am)====================================
YES YES YES YES YES YES!!!!!
This is what we want and need to know!!!!!
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (9:14 am)Lee: Picture this scenario hypermilers:-One person, driver, in car only
-Steady state 40 mph with aggressive regen low gear applied every 2-3 minutes from 40 to say 25 mph
-All accessories off and windows up
-TailwindPredicted results–70+ mile range.Bring it on Volt!!
For every deceleration event, you will have an equal acceleration event. On flat ground, steady state driving at 40 mph will provide better range than decel to 25 and acel back to 40 mpg. A ton of energy is lost if you have to brake, even with regen capability.
According to my model the rolling resistance losses are greater than aero losses at speeds below about 45 mph or so. I was surprised that the break-even speed was that high.
Regardless, 8000 whrs of battery capacity should provide about 50 miles AER.
Sounds like GM is using more than 8000 whrs of capacity, however.
Jeremy,
You are correct. Decel only makes sense if it can’t be avoided ie slower traffic, tight curve, stops signs or reduced speed zones, etc. Accel should be gradual also, during town slopes when possible. Keep the green bubble in the middle.–Lee
+12
Oct 13th, 2010 (9:21 am)“Waves of reporters” proving the advantages of EREV in every car magazine, newspaper, tv newscast, and online blog. The only time “Prius” will be mentioned for the next 18 months is when they say “Toyota is also developing a Plug-in version of the Prius which will have ‘almost’ the same (about 1/4th) all-electric range as the Volt”. Is this a great day or what?!
Oct 13th, 2010 (9:29 am)The “B” mode on my Prius slows the car much more than just coasting. It is a very nice feature. However it is noted there is no additional regen for the battery in the “B” mode ( more engine braking -actually wasting energy-).
It is great to read the VOLT increases the regen when the car slows in the “L” mode…. a great feature when in a lot of traffic.
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (9:36 am)Sorry. I guess that was really mean spirited. Totally justified, but still mean. My bad.
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (9:36 am)I’d like to see the real world EV range, without taking it easy. Most people don’t have the time or patience to baby a car down the road. Not to mention you’d get run over driving like that around my city!
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (9:52 am)Corvette C6 chassis,
Front styled like a 57,
side like a 58,
rear like a 59.
Hence the designation ’789 Chevy’.
EREV me?
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (9:52 am)This statement shows that you do not understand at all how the Volt drive train works!
For example, in “Mountain Mode”, the ICE does come on to retain battery SOC at a higher level. While”Sport Mode” merely provides more output from the electric motor and the ICE does not in any way assist in this mode.
You can conjecture all you want and claim that GM lied to us but that isn’t true. All they did was withhold some information from us. I’m sure your note loosing any sleep at night over this issue. If you are your unduly stressing yourself out and shortening your life.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+2
Oct 13th, 2010 (9:55 am)Read the article again a little closer, and you’ll realize only Lyle “babied” the car, and only the first 20 miles. The other guy drove normal. All this with the AC on. And they still got over 40 miles of EV range.
-1
Oct 13th, 2010 (9:58 am)A price cut of $6-8K would accomplish that.
+2
Oct 13th, 2010 (10:00 am)I could be wrong, but I know GM once planned to use a “string” of LEDs to create the stylistic line starting left of the headlight, then sweeping under it to the far side of the headlight housing….
When I test drove a Volt in NYC I asked a GM engineer about this. She said the headlights were halogen projectors but that all others, taillights, trim, etc were LEDs. Hopefully, this applies to the DRLs as well.
+5
Oct 13th, 2010 (10:00 am)The hypermiler haiku
Look, stop light ahead.
Coast, shift low, it might turn red.
Let them pass, I win.
-Brett
+12
Oct 13th, 2010 (10:03 am)As I posted yesterday, at the very end of a thread after someone pointed out this drive :
http://www.detnews.com/article/20101011/OPINION03/10110362/Volt-test-drive-quiet–efficient-—-and-fun. The writer drove 75 miles, and used 0.9 gallons of gasoline.
More interesting : “After I drove more than 32 miles on electric power only — in a very un-eco-friendly manner — the Volt’s little engine began powering the car. (…)
So this is 75 miles – 33 (it was 32.something but for simplicity let’s say 33) – 42 miles on 0.9 gallons.
47 miles per gallon on CS mode in real life. More interesting data. From a journalist that was certainly not an hypermiler.
Add to that the 40+ on EV mode.
Naysayers be gone.
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (10:06 am)Waooohh!
Lyle, please don’t keep us waiting too long for your 2nd day driving report.
I am in love with this car.
Congratulations GM!
Shame on you Edmunds! Shame on you Popular Mechanics! Your shamefull campaign against the Volt will never prevail, never, never.
+5
Oct 13th, 2010 (10:07 am)Bad Karma.
Er, they did. They invented the term Extended Range Electric Vehicle to describe it. What’s wrong with this?
FWIW I haven’t seen, heard, or smelled anything that suggest the engine will come on when the car is in CD Mode, and there are reasons relating to pollution emissions why it won’t. I think you and BillR are completely off-base on this one.
+6
Oct 13th, 2010 (10:14 am)Your absolutely right on both counts, Don! The Volt is an EREV & it’s gas engine NEVER runs when it’s operating in the EV (CD) mode.
Oct 13th, 2010 (10:21 am)I think when I get my Volt, I’ll take it out to the Bonneville salt flats. I bet I can get at least 100 miles of electric range there, hell maybe 1000! That seems like a logical competition. Find the most ideal location to hypermile and just try and go forever!
-Book
+2
Oct 13th, 2010 (10:21 am)If only there was a $7500 rebate. Oh wait…there is.
Problem solved for Gen I.
+2
Oct 13th, 2010 (10:22 am)This issue was answered yesterday in several post by other people and myself. One blogger provided a link to a teleconference where two GM engineers answered question. Here is a repeat of one of my posts yesterday.
Tagamet:
Here you go: http://vxlive.feedroom.com/feedroom/http/4000/5172/6999/7438/Lobby/default.htmWork tomorrow, so G’Nite.Be well,
Tagamet
Thanks Tag.
Justin, at about 19:58 in the video they show the EVT and at 20;22 the bar graphs are shown. Larry Nitz specifically states that you can drive up 100 in all electric mode.
The Volt does not use the ICE to get to 100 mph while in all electric mode – EVER!
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (10:31 am)I saw the DRLs in action when I was at the AltCar Expo 2010 event in Santa Monica. The LEDs are not individually visible as on some cars but are clustered and hidden behind a frosted lens in the lower inside corner (closest to the center of the car) of the overall headlight housing next to the main halogen lamp.
Oct 13th, 2010 (10:32 am)+1
Just watched that video this morning and it proved to be very informative, even for those of us that regularly frequent this site. Should be mandatory viewing for the knuckle heads on here that don’t have their facts straight after two days of bickering.
+9
Oct 13th, 2010 (10:35 am)I am totally baffled by the people quoting “the Volt is clearly just a Hybrid”?! The Volt can clearly at least get 25 miles extreme worst case and nearly 50 miles driving a little cautious. What part of this is not electric? The first 2 miles or the last 10?
And can we leave the || hybrid, serial hybrid issue behind now? Not to mention the CS mpg rating. Does it REALLY matter – you still get 40 miles on electricity, add that to ANY CS mpg and it will be better than any volume production car out there.
It is clearly a great car, just accept it and buy it or move on.
+3
Oct 13th, 2010 (10:38 am)It will if the gas is too old.
OMG the engine will ‘waste’ fuel to perform maintenance. Quick, call Edmonds!
The interesting thing now is that the Volt’s 65% battery usage (as opposed to the earlier 50%) places it’s AER within spitting distance of LEAF on it’s bad days. Volt can’t have a bad day because of the battery environmental controls.
Take them both out to Texas Motor Speedway when it’s 108° F (135° or so on the track) and let’s see who fairs better.
As reports roll in, the Volt is looking better and better. I’m very close to pulling the trigger now rather than waiting for Volt 1.1 (Service Pack 1).
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (10:41 am)I will not be surprised when I go to a car show and see a Voltec-Powered ’55 Chevy!
That would be sswwwwwweeeeeeeeeeeeeettt-ah!
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (10:41 am)Problem is, you have to finance that on your initial buy. If you are paying outright full, you STILL have to pay that $7,500.
When all is said and done, you’ve signed the sales agreement, when you drive off that lot, you paid FULL price.
Just ask CorvetteGuy, he won’t lie.
Oct 13th, 2010 (10:47 am)I’m leasing, in part for that reason.
I’ve never leased before because it never made sense. In this case, it does (at least for me).
The Volt isn’t the perfect vehicle “for me”, but is the best of what is available for what it does. In a few years I hope to have a few more options (more cargo room, AWD maybe) and plan on purchasing at that time.
Oct 13th, 2010 (10:58 am)#81 was my apology for a ‘pre-emptive strike’ on today’s trolls from my #79.
It did not stick? Talk about karma… Now that’s funny!
Oct 13th, 2010 (11:02 am)The Chevrolet website is still promoting the Lease Program “which includes” the $7,500 tax credit in the deal. I do not have any more specifics other than that, but it should be coming out soon… just like the Volt.
Oct 13th, 2010 (11:03 am)Somebody needs to (Lyle? TomM?) put an inductive ammeter on the 12v side and test these accessories for power drain.
My thinking (and Mike-o-Matic’s), without any data whatsoever, is that these energy drains won’t make a measurable difference in AER range or other stats.
We talking a 16KW battery (plus whatever is in the 12v system) to run a few LEDs and a radio. They’d probably run for months before draining 16KW. 16KW (or 65% of it) is a crap-load of power. That’s enough to run an entire house for a day or so.
+4
Oct 13th, 2010 (11:10 am)This is EXACTLY true. Sometimes these media types just don’t listen.
BTW: The “record” EV range of the various media drives was apparently 57 miles
WOT
+3
Oct 13th, 2010 (11:11 am)Just lease it for 36 months and buy it out at lease end. Same difference except you get the $7500 up front.
+3
Oct 13th, 2010 (11:20 am)From Popular Science’s Volt Review:
” I made the 45-mile drive in pure electric mode with 6 miles left on the battery meter,. The next day, on the first leg of a 155.7-mile route, we did several miles of 80-plus-mph freeway driving, switched it for several miles to “sport” mode and generally tried to push it as much as we could given that we were driving in town, and we got a little over 37 miles of all-electric range.”
Amazing.
+2
Oct 13th, 2010 (11:25 am)Here is the text from the handout card (should be at dealerships soon) called:
“What Everyone Needs To Know About Volt”
Qualified lessees can lease the 2011 Chevrolet Volt for as low as $350* per month for 36 months $2,500 due at signing. Includes security deposit. Tax, title, license and dealer fees extra.
*Example based on MSRP. Each dealer sets its own price. Your payments may vary. Payments are for a 2011 Volt with an MSRP of $41,000. 36 monthly payments total $12,600. Option to purchase at lease end for an amount to be determined at lease signing. Lessor must approve lease. Lessee pays for excess wear. Not available with other offers. Residency restrictions apply. Payments are an example based on current market conditions, actual payments in late 2010 when sales commence may vary based on changes in market conditions, including but not limited to money factor and residual applicable to vehicle. Includes benefit of tax credit, which benefits the lessor.
_________
If you want info on how the $7,500 “Tax Credit” works, go to IRS website:
http://www.irs.gov/irb/2009-48_IRB/ar09.html
If you want to get answers directly from GM about the 2011 Volt,
call 1-(888)-VOLT-4-YOU and a friendly person will answer your questions.
Oct 13th, 2010 (11:27 am)If you lease, you forfeit the $7500- it goes to GM instead. I doubt that they will factor it into your ultimate purchase price after 3 years. That would mean they would have to sell it to you for less than what they could sell it to someone else for.
Edit- reading post 109. Hard to tell from this lease language- maybe they are ultimately giving you benefit of tax?
+2
Oct 13th, 2010 (11:33 am)You are correct, sir. And this is an important point: Not everyone will benefit from the FULL tax credit of $7,500 at the end of the year if you BUY instead of LEASE. If you LEASE, you get the benefit of the full tax credit because it is built into the downpayment on the lease. If you BUY, then the amount of tax credit is based on your total tax liability at the end of that tax year. (and that’s about all I know about taxes so I won’t comment further and look stupid) Consult your tax advisor is the best advice.
Oct 13th, 2010 (11:49 am)I think the only time the ICE will come on in CD mode is if its very cold outside and your car is parked in a parking lot, not plugged in. It will precondition the batteries before using them. I guess it will also run intermittently if you never change your stale gas.
Oct 13th, 2010 (11:51 am)Think I read about this in physic class. There are a few Newtonian laws that address this. :+}
Oct 13th, 2010 (11:52 am)Houses typically average 60 to 80% HVAC demand, testimony to the large
amounts of energy required to heat and cool, especially heat. All the more reason to
extend mileage by warming/cooling the interior using grid power before unplugging
and starting the trip.
Oct 13th, 2010 (11:55 am)Confirming performance under ideal conditions (speed, traffic, terrain, temperature) is a very good way to start out the Volt experience.
+2
Oct 13th, 2010 (11:58 am)I am under the impression the 7500 dollars is straight off your tax bill with a VOLT purchase.
If your tax bill is less that 7500 you will lose. The IRS will not refund any difference. I suspect that most folks that buy this car will have a high enough income, with deductions, to have a tax bill greater than 7500 dollars.
The lease will help others get a VOLT that may not be able to pay the original +/- $41K price.
I am not a tax guy but I do pay them. So I am “sort of qualified” :+}.
+3
Oct 13th, 2010 (12:03 pm)Thank you for the clarification. That won’t end it for some people but it’s nice to hear directly from an authoritative source.
One problem with the Volt is that in some sense it’s too good. From an engineering standpoint you have a lot of options, which makes it possible to address engineering issues in different ways. That’s good, but it’s hardly simple since you have different potential paths to the same end. As a consequence you have complexity and, as the last few days have shown, people have trouble dealing with complexity.
The biggest issue in this regard is that you have CD Mode and CS Mode, and within each mode you have several different ways of configuring the planetary gearset. People are having trouble keeping the modes and the gearset configurations straight. And even people who understand exactly how the Volt works — for example Andrew Farah — have trouble explicating ALL the parameters when providing information.
It is definitely a marketing challenge, especially since people bring with them preconceptions about what various definitions mean. This is most obvious example of this is all the “it’s just a hybrid” comments. For Pete’s sake, the Volt has a gas engine and a battery. So yeah, it’s a hybrid. Duh! But the only hybrid most people can relate to is the Prius or the Fusion, so if someone says the Volt is a hybrid they leap to a conclusion and say “it’s just like a Prius”. Obviously no, but the problem is that if you say “hybrid” that’s all they can think of. Quite the marketing challenge. But eventually people will get up the learning curve. Probably at their own pace, and probably that pace can’t be accelerated by even the best of marketing. It’s just going to take some time.
Oct 13th, 2010 (12:03 pm)QUESTION: About leasing.
Is there a price break for prepaying the lease up front. i.e. a deduction for interest and other minor things?
Oct 13th, 2010 (12:07 pm)Everyone must listen to the audio track from this page. Nevermind the article it’s somewhat inacurate until update #4. The audio from Andrew Farah is “spot on” and will leave no question as to how the volt uses the engine. Forget the 70 MPH thing, the ICE is used for efficiency based on TORQUE demands from the driver. Just listen to the Audio!!!
http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/11/shocker-chevy-says-volts-gas-engine-can-power-the-wheels-its/
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (12:09 pm)That’s right. One other disadvantage of getting the tax deduction is that you have to wait a while. For example, if you buy a Volt in January of 2011 you could conceivably wait until November of 2012 to see the rebate (if you file an extension). The earliest you could see it would be a year later in January of 2012.
Not trying to get too deep into tax planning, but for people who don’t pay $7500 in taxes, say because they are retired or between jobs, they might be able to generate a tax liability sufficient to take advantage of the rebate by either withdrawing money from a retirement accounts or by converting to a ROTH IRA.
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (12:09 pm)Nearly 50 miles in EV mode with light driving characteristics is really impressive.
Another example of “under promise and over deliver”, and, I’d bet that as most people will be driving at light-demand speeds during a drive into work in the morning, there might be the majority of the time that these higher EV drive mode distances are achieved.
This makes our original discussion of the 230 mpg-e topic that we discussed a while back, more credible, if not realistically likely.
As well, a more likely earlier-production-rate-increase toward a 250,000-units-per-year level would not surprise me at all, as the next great topic discussed here, as we continue to remain astonished.
+5
Oct 13th, 2010 (12:12 pm)Some very interesting things being pursued on the EV legislative front:
http://www.detnews.com/article/20101013/AUTO01/10130393/1148/auto01/Congress-urged-to-lift-limit-on-electric-vehicle-tax-credits
“GM has applied for up to $14.4 billion in retooling loans. Stephens said GM still hopes to receive those loans — but said the delay in receiving them hasn’t slowed the company’s progress.”
“GM Vice Chairman Tom Stephens praised the government for all of the efforts toward making electric vehicles a reality. But he said he’d like to see Congress lift the cap on the $7,500 tax credit. Currently, credit is capped at 200,000 vehicles per manufacturer. He warned that automakers could hit that cap during the first-generation of electric vehicles.”
“Sen. Debbie Stabenow, D-Lansing, is pushing to win approval of several measures on electric vehicles. She told attendees of the conference [Electric vehicle advocates and automakers are discussing the future of battery-powered vehicles this week at the second annual Business of Plugging In conference in Detroit] that she wants to “front-load” the $7,500 tax credit for purchasers of electric vehicles — so like “Cash for Clunkers” consumers could get the money deducted from the price of a new vehicle at the dealership.”
“Separately, the EV tax credit could get a jolt. The Senate electric vehicle bill would increase the tax credit to $10,000. Some states are adding up to $5,000 in state tax credits on top of the federal credit.”
“She is part of a coalition of Republicans and Democrats that wants to create up to 15 “deployment communities” that would “help regional communities establish themselves as models for the development and installation of the next generation of infrastructure, including public charging stations.”
She said a tax credit for consumers installing home fast-charging stations for electric vehicles expires by year’s end — and Congress needs to act to extend that this year she said.”
So, let’s see. More of them, cheaper, and easier to plug in. Hmmm. Me likes.
+28
Oct 13th, 2010 (12:12 pm)ICE only goes on after battery is depleted. It NEVER contributes to the drivetrain while in all-electric charge depleting mode.
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (12:15 pm)Great audio clip explaining how the drive system works. This really enlightened me after the past 2 days of info going back and forth:
http://www.plugincars.com/print/90758
EDIT: Bintoo beat me to it, hehe, but still, it should be heard by all.
Oct 13th, 2010 (12:18 pm)Hi #22 BillR: I copied the URL you posted in #22. Jonny Lieberman of MT posted a VOLT test drive I’ve looked forward to someone doing for some time. Jonny drove his VOLT over the Tehachapi Mountains to Highway 14 to Mojave. I drove this last December-coming and going. These mountains are some of the windiest areas in the U.S. up and down. (Pike’s Peak its not) Moreover, traffic on some of the open four-lane parts average well over 70 mph in the #1 lane.
(Understand Jonny’s mpg figures are cumulative, meaning he didn’t sort out EV from ER mileage separately.)
Bottom line: LEAF can not; could not; and will not – complete even the first leg of this test – period. VOLT performed magnificently.
This post is must reading:
http://blogs.motortrend.com/6719595/green/127-mpg-this-volt-story-must-be-told/index.html
Oct 13th, 2010 (12:18 pm)Lyle,
Thanks for the cutaway view and thread of the motor and planetary gearset design a few topics back. Stunning content for many of us.
(/..back to work. Have a great day everyone!)
-9
Oct 13th, 2010 (12:20 pm)What’s obviously lacking, in terms of economizing electrical usage, is knowledge amongst the drivers as to device consumption. Radios CAN use amazingly small amounts of electricity.
MY 19inch LCD HDTV draws a paltry 25 watts, 26 watts if the volume is turned up. LED
headlamps, although expensive, draw very little juice. I think it’s time to ask pointed questions about the energy usage of optional devices in the car. For example, an hour’s trip blasting away with 200 watt speakers at full continuous power would, aside from rendering you permanently
deaf, consume but 200 watthours, or 1/5th of a kilowatthour , or roughly one mile of EV range.
Despite his years of study of electrical vehicles, our leader seems ignorant of electrical consumption.
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (12:29 pm)You just said the usage would be “paltry”, and by your own calculations, blasting the stereo for an hour only drops 1 mile of EV. To that I must ask…who cares how much juice the options are sucking? It really doesn’t matter much because it is so little.
+7
Oct 13th, 2010 (12:30 pm)One interesting thing I learned from watching the video, is that even when the battery is “depleted”, the Volt will drive away from a stop in full electric mode (up to about 30mpg)…before the ICE kicks in.
This make sense not only because it its efficient to drive away using only battery electricity (vs generating the power via ICE) but also because once up to speed the start of the ICE will be less perceptible to the driver…providing a more EV-like experience…even when in CS mode.
I’m sure this is one of those tweaks that GM made along the way to help make those EV to CS mode transitions as smooth as possible. Very cool.
Oct 13th, 2010 (12:33 pm)Here is how is should work. When you lease you’re paying interest on two parts of the car — you are financing the part of the car you’re using (the depreciation) and the value of the car at the end of the lease (called the residual). When you prepay a lease you’re not borrowing any money to pay for the part you’re using, but you are still borrowing to pay for the remainder of the car, the residual.
I don’t know if I’d describe this as a price break. It’s more that you are not borrowing the money so you aren’t paying finance chargers. Just making numbers up, if the lease called for payments of $100/month, then over 36 months you’d pay $3600. If the finance portion of the depreciation was $5 (say the finance charge for the residual was another $5), and the depreciation was $90 (plus $5 financing chargers on the part you’re using plus $5 on the residual), then if you prepay the lease you’d save that $5 a month. Over 36 months that would save you $180 in interest charges. Theoretically you could also prepay the interest on the $5 of financing chargers related to the residual, which would save you another $180, but I’ve never heard of it.
+3
Oct 13th, 2010 (12:38 pm)Well, I guess I’ll answer my own question about daytime running lights. According to
http://www.egmcartech.com/2010/10/11/2011-chevrolet-volt-gm-confirms-up-to-50-miles-electric-driving-and-a-lot-of-other-things/ press release, one item is:
“Crash-avoidance features include standard anti-lock brakes with traction control, StabiliTrak electronic stability control and advanced and LED daytime running lamps.”
So Lyle, next time just leave DRLs on; just too little juice to matter.
+4
Oct 13th, 2010 (12:39 pm)Well said Dave! We can expect this will be the news pattern going forward. A GM product engineer told me they have deliberately under-promised on several counts. Charge time is another. We may see the 240V charge time halved from 4 to 2 hours IF GM implements a power control software change. This could be done by remote via OnStar or more likely at the dealer.
This car has some advanced electronics communications equipment in it and will surprise us all by what it can do. Fantastic work GM Volt Team!
+9
Oct 13th, 2010 (12:51 pm)Jeremy, you are correct according to MY experience driving in CS mode. The car starts out in all-electric (CD) mode even when fully “depleted” and only at 20-30MPH does the ICE start. I COULD NOT feel or hear the gas motor start. ONLY the center display clued me to the fact the ICE was charging the battery. The car pinged between CS and CD mode throughout my drive – imperceptible to me. Remember the car is still running on electric propulsion in CS mode (except above 70mph apparently.) I have owned a Prius and never experienced as smooth or noiseless operation as my Volt test drive. NEVER.
Brilliant, Volt is changing the world.
+3
Oct 13th, 2010 (12:57 pm)Yes, you are absolutely right about peak oil. More accurately, we’re now on “plateau oil,” but unfortunately while production is pretty much maxed out right now, global consumption is going up. Adding to that, the oil-producing nations are developing rapidly and hence exporting less and less oil (as they need it themselves now, to power their modernizing civilizations). I predicted a year ago that gasoline will be $5 by the time the Volt is widely available. I’ll now set that date as mid-2012.
To keep up with the latest on peak oil, check out “theoildrum.com”, which is an authoritative web site comprising geologists and Ph.D. petroleum engineers who are tracking and analyzing the situation day-by-day.
Lyle, thank you so much for the great report. I’ve also got a “Volt smile” now, am waiting on word from my dealer as to when my Volt will be delivered. GM’s engineering has been ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT, based on recent revelations, and FWIW, this is an engineer talking.
+4
Oct 13th, 2010 (1:02 pm)Remember, Bose developed a special extra-efficient stereo system for the Volt.
+3
Oct 13th, 2010 (1:10 pm)“…new sound system that utilizes a proprietary design to produce a system that is 30% smaller, 40% lighter, and uses 50% less energy than conventional Bose sound systems, while still delivering premium, high-quality audio.”
I have no idea what 50% of ‘conventional’ is, but, it’s all good.
http://www.gizmag.com/bose-energy-efficient-series-chevy-volt/10976/
Oct 13th, 2010 (1:22 pm)It is nice to see positive results coming in on EV range. If the Volt has an instantaneous MPG indication it will be fun to play with the lights, radio, AC modes, electric seats, open windows, etc to see if you can even see a significant change in MPG.
I was practicing my ER driving last weekend on a 48 mile round trip to church. I live at 3450 foot elevation and drop down to about 500 foot and back up to 2600 at my destination, with some steep grades. It was fun to see how much of the trip could be made with my foor completely off the gas petal, coasting early at stop signs,coasting over the last portions at the top of hills, and coasting at every slight downgrade. At first this feels uncomfortable but you get accustomed to it. My 2004 Buick LaSabre Limited normally gets about 27 mpg average on this trip (it will get 32 on a long trip). I got it up to 29 mpg on the information display for average MPG for this experiment. I did not turn off the radio or AC.
The volt is going to be fun.
I am scheduled at 11 AM for my test drive in San Francisco tomorrow. Maybe I will meet some of you there. I am really looking forward to it.
Oct 13th, 2010 (1:27 pm)Here’s a CNET report on the high efficiency BOSE sound system introduced in Volt:
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-10162765-48.html
Oct 13th, 2010 (1:28 pm)That is indeed good news, over 50 EV miles is quite possible with moderate speeds. It will be very interesting to see what the EV distance is at highway speeds which brings me back to make another comment about the ICE helping at speeds above 70 MPH. I don’t recall if this was brought up yesterday or not but here in the western states many of our interstates have a speed limit of 75 MPH. I drive the interstate for about 20 miles (10 miles each way) every day to work and so I’ll always be going faster than the 70 MPH that starts the ICE. So I’m thinking that I’ll never get 40 miles of pure EV because the ICE will always be on. So for me personally and I assume a great number of people in the west would have preferred that GM had added another gear instead of starting the ICE.
Thoughts?
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (1:30 pm)I’ve been looking at some of the reviews online from all of the press. Great stuff. This one just popped up. Hope it is just talk…
http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/auto_news/chevy-volt-launch-may-be-delayed-until-december-20101013-mr
Oct 13th, 2010 (1:36 pm)Nevermind…. GM just shot that rumor down in a big hurry!
http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/article/20101013/NEWS03/310130020/GM-Volt-is-on-track-for-November
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (1:39 pm)A watt is not necessarily a watt when talking audio (especially automotive audio). Peak output (where audio equipment is usually advertised) is rarely achieved. At peak output, the distortion would also drive you nutz.
200w RMS would be a lot of sound in such a small car. However, a ’200 watt’ car audio system is mostly marketing and you only get about 1/100th of that as real audio output.
Bottom line: a ’200 watt’ car stereo does not consume 200w/h of energy even at full volume. 1/5 kwh would last all day (and all night) for most automotive audio systems.
+14
Oct 13th, 2010 (1:44 pm)That is incorrect. Until you deplete the battery, you can go ANY speed on 100% electricity. Yes, at 75 or 80MPH you’ll drain it a little faster and may not get 40 miles AER (all-electric range). But the ICE WILL NOT KICK IN just because you hit 75MPH.
Once you deplete the battery and CS mode kicks in (Charge-Sustaining), THEN the ICE will start running. And MAYBE, but only MAYBE, depending on your speed and if the computers deem it wise, will Volt engage the ICE via clutch to the planetary ring gear, through the genset.
In other words, it’s NOT hitting 70MPH that will cause the ICE to come on. It’s depletion of the battery past its minimum charge level. But by then, you’ll have already covered 30, 40, even 50 or more miles (depending on speed, driving style, etc.).
Relax, you’ll still get your 20 mile round-trip done on 100% electricity, even at 75MPH, so long as you start with a 60 or 70% charged battery.
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (1:51 pm)My apologies in advance for dragging in old issues; but I didn’t have time to post in yesterday’s thread.
On Monday, in response to “Motor Trend Explains the Volt’s Powertrain,” I wrote the following:
Then, in Lyle’s posting for yesterday, this appeared (my emphasis):
So, LRGVProVolt was right after all: This does sound a lot like my 20+ year-old idea; or at the very least, a massive step towards it. Why is this so important (to other people, I mean)? Because an electrical source might transition to something less able to provide actual torque (fuel cells, turbine engines, RTGs, who knows what) if the mode I envisioned becomes reality. I have a feeling that GM has already patented my basic idea, and are working actively towards something closely resembling it. I can hardly wait to see what might be possible in the Gen III Volt, with it’s improved batteries.
I should emphasize that I did not, nor should I have expected the Volt to emulate my musings of decades ago; that was not the stated or actual purpose of the program. Today’s news confirms that the Volt excels at the job it was designed to do, and I still want one.
Oct 13th, 2010 (1:52 pm)^^ Referring to my last post…
“…so long as you start with a 60 or 70% charged battery.”
Just to clarify: That’s just my top-of-the-head guess for getting in 20 electric miles at 70MPH. Just a guess, but a fairly safe one I think.
Oct 13th, 2010 (1:57 pm)That is one of the beauties of the design. It’s very flexible.
Oct 13th, 2010 (1:59 pm)Uh-oh – does that mean you’re *flooring it* today? hehe
Oct 13th, 2010 (2:07 pm)Other types of on-board electricity generation are possible ONLY IF the mode-3 “weak one motor series, battery-dominant” is replaced by a “strong one motor series (etc),” (or it’s equivalent, however you want to describe it); such that the need for mode 4 is eliminated (the torque of the range extender added to the mix via planetary gearset).
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (2:14 pm)I believe daytime running lamps are a significant safety enhancement. I wouldn’t be surprised if they were mandated one day. LED headlamps are also available on another car I won’t mention here.
+2
Oct 13th, 2010 (2:27 pm)The guy who lives on a Colorado mountaintop and rolls into Utah!
Oct 13th, 2010 (2:28 pm)LED headlamps are still massively expensive. Making LEDs work at these power levels is not a straight-forward affair, there are cooling issues and manufacturing complexities which won’t apply to lower-power lamps. For now, this concept isn’t worth the cost for the few watts of energy savings provided. Maybe someday.
+5
Oct 13th, 2010 (2:35 pm)Don’t bother with the low gear interval unless you have to for stop lights etc – steady state is the more efficient option (in theory anyway!)
Rationale: you’re going 40 & there’s kinetic energy (KE) in the motion of the car. That energy came from the battery when you accelerated in the first place.
If you engage regen down to 25, you’ll lose >60% of the KE but hope to recapture a portion of that 60% (perhaps 55% if we’re very optimistic?) Then you’ll need to store that in the battery (90% round trip efficiency) before pumping it out through the motor / tranny again (who knows – 80% if we’re lucky?) And we didn’t even factor drive electronics efficiencies etc.
All this means you’ll be lucky to get back up to 35mph on regen’d energy, so if you want to get back to 40 where you started guess where that energy comes from? The battery (I.e from the initial charge).
The only way you can gain by doing this is because you’re going slower some of the time – hence lower drag losses. But if that is the aim you’re better off just driving along constantly at a bit below 40 instead. Better this way ‘cos drag typically goes up as the square of your speed.
Sorry – don’t mean to be critical, just trying to help on the efficient driving front as there’s clearly a lot of interest on that topic today!
Cheers,
Matt
+4
Oct 13th, 2010 (2:50 pm)Wow… I think This is a record for most negative response
.
+3
Oct 13th, 2010 (2:52 pm)Salt flats Hypermile competition… Let’s see how far our Volts can go!
Harrier
Oct 13th, 2010 (2:58 pm)For marketing reasons I hope you are right! To me it doesn’t matter either way if it greatly increases efficiency, however they did say before there was no possible linkage from the ICE to the wheels. This is not the fault of the Volt engineers but those marketing it, they are the ones who should take the hit for any negative publicity due to some of the recent releases. Like I said before, be honest about the Volt it will stand on it’s own 4 wheels. Anything that GM does that looks misleading will look like deception and scare potential buyers away. Remember we want mass adoption here not just the supporters to believe. The Volt is still hitting it’s major benchmarks and that’s the important part. 40 miles AER
-24
Oct 13th, 2010 (3:10 pm)(click to show comment)
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (3:14 pm)Hopefully everyone can get it straight that the Volt NEVER USES GAS IN EV MODE.
It seems a lot of people are getting confused. During EV mode the gas engine NEVER comes on. During range extended mode the gas engine generated power normally goes into the battery pack and then to the electric motor, but sometimes a bit of the gas engine power goes to the wheels without going into the pack first.
Oct 13th, 2010 (3:22 pm)I would say yes but can’t say for sure. I sold Lexus for 7 years and Toyota had a One Pay lease and you did get a discount but don’t remember the details as we did not do many.
Oct 13th, 2010 (3:25 pm)They are mandated in Canada.
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (3:27 pm)I think GM said the sweet spot was 50mph.
Oct 13th, 2010 (3:32 pm)I posted this earlier, but I believe (need to check still) the Volt may use the ICE to precondition the batteries when you first start using the car if it was not plugged in. And ofcourse there is the stale gas usage. Both of these should be rare occurances.
+3
Oct 13th, 2010 (3:33 pm)I would guess that you have not read a number of posts here today and yesterday that put this misconception to rest. So here goes again.
When utilizing the battery pack in charge depletion mode (i.e., when running on ONLY ELECTICITY), you can reach maximum speed of 100 MPH! The ICE does not, I repeat, does not come one until you go into Charge Sustaining Mode.cIn the earlier posts there is a link to a teleconference with a graphic depiction of what happens between the motor/generators, the ICE and the EVT when the Volt reaches a speed of 70 MPH. An engineer by the name of Nitz clearly states that you can go to the maximum speed in all electric range. It shows that the ICE does not come on!
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+3
Oct 13th, 2010 (3:37 pm)You need to work on that.. slow down to 55, it saves gas and lowers your stress level.. and you get there in about the same time.
<blockquote
Not to mention you’d get run over driving like that around my city!
It just feels that way but it wont happen, lets say you are driving 55 and some impatient fool is coming up behind you at 80mph, its only a 25mph differential he has time to either slow down or drive around you.. even merging into hwy traffic is not a problem, they will slow down before plowing into you. For many year we drove cars that did 0-60 in 20 secs, and 10 secs was considered sporty.. now its too slow.
Oct 13th, 2010 (3:52 pm)Agreed, my 1988 Firebird had 180HP which was decent back then. Now you can hardly find a vehicle being sold with less than 200HP. My 2010 Prius has 136HP and feels pretty sporty compared to my 2006 XB (105 HP) and my 2001 S10 2.2L (103 HP).
I never had an occasion in any of these vehicles where I had insufficient power for my needs. Except in the Firebird when it lost a race to a Civic…
Oct 13th, 2010 (3:53 pm)Late me further clarify the point you are making! If the battery pack is not in an optimum operating temperature range and you have not been able to plug into the grid to recharge the battery, under extremely cold weather when you start the vehicle, the ICE will run the generator to power the electric traction motor. At such time as the battery pack reaches the optimum temperature range, the vehicle will change over to CD mode operating solely on electricity. As long as someone understands when the battery pack requires/needs to be preconditioned, your statement would be correct.
There is one other time that the ICE comes on that you did not mention. That is when the hood is raised as in the case of a mechanic doing repairs. We all hope that this, the first, generation of the Volt will require few repairs.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Oct 13th, 2010 (4:17 pm)Thanks for the information. I will ask these questions if my Volt becomes available.
Oct 13th, 2010 (4:19 pm)Thanks for the information.. as noted in an earlier reply I will ask these questions if I have a chance to get a VOLT :+}
Oct 13th, 2010 (4:20 pm)I think you’re right. And before anyone gets too excited, just to reiterate your point, using the ICE to condition the batteries would rare since it would only occur be in extreme temperatures. The type of temperatures where an EV probably wouldn’t be able to run, period.
Oct 13th, 2010 (4:26 pm)From the video yesterday, the engineer was saying ‘buss’ not ‘battery’. Since the ICE-generated power goes on the buss, it can go either to the motor (usually) or to the battery (if needed).
This means that the statement ‘goes into the battery pack and then to the electric motor’ is incorrect. It’s not a serial process generator=>battery=>motor. It’s more like generator=>motor with a little generator=>battery (a parallel process).
Herm and a few others (including me) think that the engine power being sent through M/G A to the gearbox is EVT-related and doesn’t directly send torque to the wheels. (GM uses this ‘directly’ and ‘indirectly’ verbiage as well.) We think it is only resistive torque for the main motor M/G B to function. So ‘a bit of the gas engine power goes to the wheels’ may not be entirely correct either.
The tricky part (for me) is how do you determine if the engine spinning the gears (through M/G A) or the motor (M/G B) spinning the gears causes torque that is ultimately sent to the wheels. It’s kind of like two streams coming together into a river. Can you really separate out which stream caused the flood?
Since you have a measurement of torque and rpm (via computer) for both devices, I suppose you could program so that the net torque is coming from the electric motor. However, the engine *is* running and connected to the gearbox, so, it’s a little confusing for us engine=>gearbox=>wheels (old school) guys.
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (4:30 pm)GM made a decision to use the generator to supplement the drive motor when going faster than 70 MPH. Once they made this decision they had to have a direct connection between the ICE and the wheels. When the car is running on batteries only, both the generator and the drive motor get their power from the battery. When the car is in charge sustaining mode and the ICE is on, it MUST be connected to the generator. Otherwise, the ICE wouldn’t be doing anything except spinning. So, if you connect the generator to the drive system above 70 MPH in charge sustaining mode, you will be connecting the ICE at the same time. If you disconnect the ICE from the generator so the the drive system would be pure electric, than you will have to get all your power from the batteries because there is no way to get any power from the ICE.
GM could have chosen to put in a two speed gearbox and not used the generator above 70 MPH and the car would have been a pure electric drive but this would have burned more gas for the same performance. What is more important? Burning less gas or ideological purity.
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (4:33 pm)I have a very simple solution for that.
(my version of Corvetteguy’s brilliant marketing tag-lines)
“Just drive and smile”
WopOnTour
+2
Oct 13th, 2010 (4:34 pm)I see a lot of commentors taking Lyle to task for not using the radio, or whatever, during his drive; my response to that is:
Give the guy a chance!
He’s going to have a 3 month (more or less) usage of a Volt to try all sorts of things with.
Whatever our questions, he’ll get to it.
… and don’t forget his day-job fixing brains.
Oct 13th, 2010 (4:38 pm)The price a little off but the 40 AER is the major benchmark for the Volt. In cost efficiency it is what sets it apart. I wouldn’t expect you to understand this! If you need help with it let me know. The ~38 mpg CS mode doesn’t have an effect for ~76% of all drivers and very little effect for 91% of drivers <60 mile commutes. How hard is this for some of you ‘critics’ to understand? And the higher price is not that bad with the styling and ride quality when you compare it to anything else. Take the badges off the Prius, Insight, Leaf and the Volt and ask someone which is an eco vehicle and they wouldn’t choose the Volt. It’s styled like a car not a golf cart!
+2
Oct 13th, 2010 (4:46 pm)So our “points to remember” are these:
When your battery is charged, the engine doesn’t run; period (maintenance mode and heating are a drop in the bucket against the big picture).
When your battery is used up, the engine starts to generate electricity.
And, since the engine is running anyway at this point, why not use it to supply (I think it was) 10 – 15% of the motive force mechanically? And this only when going >70mph.
… and just how “direct” is a small division of power through a planetary gear anyway? Remember, the heavy lifting is done by an electric motor. The engine is running under nearly ideal load conditions; not lugging down under heavy load. This isn’t the case (as with Prius) where an engine must be tuned for maximum efficiency over a range of driving speeds, requiring an electric assist for the bottom end of the power curve. It’s the case of an electric motor providing motive power over a range of speeds, taking a small assist from an already-running engine; and then, only under extreme conditions.
+8
Oct 13th, 2010 (4:54 pm)GM is clever in it’s timing as it’s only a couple days after the big: Chelsea Sexton coined – “Voltgate”.
The PR wars notwithstanding – TODAY’S TOPIC IS WHAT IT’S ALL ABOUT, PEOPLE . Going as many miles as possible on no gasoline or diesel fuel with very low emissions.
Letting journalists go with Volts to maximize EV range is the whole tamale, in my mind. Negative-minded people who just “want to be right”, will sit around and argue semantics ’til the end of days.
The “GM LIED” headlines and yammer-heads should just find a hole to crawl into. It’s so very reminiscent of the “BUSH LIED” crowers who, ’til this day – hammer a very tired horse when any topic regarding Iraq or war comes up. To this day I see the faded bumper stickers on Suburu Outlanders and beater cars throughout my liberal city. Most practical, balanced thinkers realize by now that Bush did not lie, because it’s not considered a lie when we make a decision based upon flawed information. The world’s best intel told Bush Saddam had WMDs and intended to use them. To this day it has never been proven that Saddam had not merely moved WMDs across the border to Syria, less than a day’s drive away. My point is that the “BUSH LIED” rant made good fodder for debates – great sound bites for campaigns, and like the “GM LIED” folks, people who repeated it from every mountain top and still do – have been exposed as the least informed.
As I stated yesterday – the BIG NEWS of Volt is today’s topic. 50 miles electric ; 0 gallons gas. GM may have split hairs wordwise from the beginning, or as my theory, Volt was an EV with a range-extender until rigorous testing proved this gearing scheme just plain worked better.
No Prius can do what Volt does, and may not for 4-5 more years. This makes Volt evolutionary and yes, revolutionary. Whatever you call it. Acronym lovers go nuts, call it an EV-H ,EREV70MPGH, EREVCS70H….??? But whatever you label it, it is unique in the world at a near to/affordable price.
PUMP OUT THE VOLTS! ,
James
Oct 13th, 2010 (5:06 pm)The conditions of the ‘race’ were probably skewed in favor of the smaller car. Going 0-30 quickly is easy. Going 0-80 and beyond, the Firebird would easily outrun a Civic. Give yourself more room next time and don’t take a sucker bet.
Most people on this forum (especially the Prius folk) have never driven a high-performance car and probably don’t care to. Without this experience, 0-60 times of 12 seconds are ‘peppy’. To me, 8 sec is dog-sled speed.
I drive a Hemi-based Dodge (340hp, 390ft-lbs stock. It’s not stock.). Even then, a tuned Civic could technically get to 30mph faster than me. They never try though.
Oct 13th, 2010 (5:17 pm)Nice to hear that GM exceeded expectations for a change.
Oct 13th, 2010 (5:18 pm)I’ve thought for a long time that it would be prudent to use “mountain mode” whenever you know that you’ll be taking a long trip away from a plug (whether or not actual mountains are involved). This would reserve some extra electric power for those potentially dangerous situations encountered on a highway; passing, escaping from an overworked truck driver who doesn’t see you, avoiding crashes for various other reasons, or sudden obstacles in your path such as a lost crate or tire carcass.
My question though is this: If you use “mountain mode,” will the fractional power-assist from the engine through the transmission need to take place at all? Couldn’t the Volt add the battery reserve to the generator power instead? Can’t the primary motor take more power than the generator provides?
Oct 13th, 2010 (5:27 pm)#144 Jackson,
I hate to break it to you, but, at least, one bus company has been making hybrids that use a power source such as a small gas turbine, to produce average power consumed by the vehicle. They have been doing this for several years. One of their gas turbine hybrid buses carries travelers to parking lots at my local airport.
http://www.designlineinternational.com
-11
Oct 13th, 2010 (5:34 pm)(click to show comment)
Oct 13th, 2010 (5:36 pm)Yeah, I didnt think I needed to go into a lot of detail as most of us know this stuff already. I think I may run into this a maybe 20 or 30 days in the winter where I live. I can’t plug in at work, and many times when i’m going home its very cold. I think AF said the ICE would run for about 2minutes before shutting off and letting the batteries take over. Good catch on the hood, I forgot about that one.
Oct 13th, 2010 (5:39 pm)Waa-aa-aahh!!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Actually, I didn’t see much definitive on the site concerning engineering details; but I believe you’d find that the buses use a high temperature battery such as Sodium Sulfur, or a derivative. These batteries work very well on larger scales (the larger the battery, the easier it is to insulate). They are capable of many deep cycles with little degradation. However, the need to keep the insides “molten” makes this an unlikely proposition for a consumer automobile: Rest assured that these buses are plugged in on a regular schedule, whether actually needed or not. Nutshell: this kind of system requires professional management.
I did consider making my dreams come true with the recent lower-temperature ceramic version of this chemistry, since the insulation requirement would be much less; but again, due to the size and bulk of any such battery pack (to minimize surface area), this would’ve been feasible only for the largest trucks and SUVs. The lower temperature required by these batteries (made by Cerametec in Utah) is close to the running temperature of an internal combustion engine; making for an even closer EREV synergy. You’d still have to plug the truck in when unused for even a day or so.
Note: I could be wrong, but I believe the charge in a “hot” battery is preserved even after it “freezes,” but it cannot function until fully heated again: a lengthy and energy-consuming process.
Oct 13th, 2010 (5:49 pm)That brings up a good question. Now that GM has the patent on this design.. how long before others can copy it? 7 years?
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (5:51 pm)Huh?
Where does the line start?!?!?!?!? I need to be first.
Oct 13th, 2010 (5:55 pm)Maharguitar said:
Once they made this decision they had to have a direct connection between the ICE and the wheels.
————–
There is no direct connection between the ICE and the wheels.
Maharguitar said:
So, if you connect the generator to the drive system above 70 MPH in charge sustaining mode, you will be connecting the ICE at the same time.
———–
Note it has nothing to do w/a speed (70mph) but the torque required
+2
Oct 13th, 2010 (5:58 pm)Good one! I approve!
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (5:59 pm)And any balanced thinker would also agree that the Bush White House and the Office of Vice President leaned on the intelligence agencies to provide the flawed information. In fact they leaned on the agencies so hard that the agencies more or less fabricated the information.
If you’re interested, just check out this interview of Lawrence Wilkerson, long time Republican and Colin Powell’s chief of staff when Powell was Secretary of Defense. He flat out says that Cheney lied and lied and lied some more, not only about the connection between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda but also that he knew “with absolute certainty” that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. As a result, Mr. Wilkerson says he participated in “perpetuating a hoax on the American people”. Start at 5:30 and be enlightened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWm_OPbTT2M
This is not a close question. All I can say is if you can’t accept the fact that the Bush Administration lied in the lead up to the Iraq War then you can’t handle the truth.
As for GM, did they lie? No, I don’t think so because they were arguable technically accurate. Were they duplicitous? Absolutely. GM has admitted that it was purposely duplicitous in order to mislead competitors. To some extent they’re owning it. I don’t have a problem with that, it’s like the military suggesting that they’re going to do “A” when they know they’re going to do “B” in order to secure a tactical advantage. All’s fair is love and war and that sort of thing. But these situations are considerably different than being duplicitous when leading the country into a war.
Oct 13th, 2010 (6:03 pm)Twenty years from the date of filing. But not all issued patents are found valid and patents can be designed around.
+2
Oct 13th, 2010 (6:03 pm)OT – I just got a call from Chevrolet acknowledging my 8/18/10 order and saying a Volt specialist would call prior to my order moving into production. Could it be that it took so long because there are too many orders and too few Chevy reps to man the phones? Maybe the next announcement from GM will be an increase in production! I hope so!
+4
Oct 13th, 2010 (6:09 pm)And that would make a great tv commercial with Tim Allen doing the voice-over and in the background we hear “The Great Sach-mo” Louis Armstrong singing:
“When you’re smiling…
Yes, when you’re smiling…
The whole world smiles… with you!”
No more calls please! We have a winner!!!!!!!!!
Oct 13th, 2010 (6:10 pm)Lyle,
Can you determine if it is more efficient to set the cruise at 69mph or 71 mph?
Thank you in advance.
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (6:15 pm)What you say here may mislead others. You need to differentiate between mechanical power from the ICE and electric power from the generator that the ICE turns. This is a bit complex so please bare with me.
You are correct in what you say about “EV mode”. Otherwise, to be correct, the term is not “EV mode” but CD mode for Charge Depletion Mode where current is drawn from the battery pack until the SOC (State of Charge) gets down to the reserve level. At that point, the ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) comes on to rotate the generator and produce electric power.
This state is termed CS mode for Charge Sustaining Mode. This basically means the battery pack has reached the SOC low point and now needs to be powered by a generator to sustain what power remains in the battery pack ( to maintain a reserve). The reserve is designed to temporarily supply some electrical power under certain circumstances. The primary electric motor used for traction is powered by this current. Most of the generators output will go to powering the primary motor; any excess power goes to the battery pack.
There is usually very little current that goes to the battery pack. Remember the goal here is to power the vehicle by means of electricity and use as little as possible gasoline. The purpose of the Voltec design is not to use gasoline to charge the battery pack but only use enough gasoline to get the Volt to a place where it can be plugged in to charge up the pack.
The ICE does contribute mechanical power through the EVT (Electric Variable Transmission) but only in the case where the vehicle is in CS mode and only at high speeds above 70 mph. GM engineers discovered while testing the prototype that the primary motor, an 111KW AC motor, was showing some power fade at 6500 rpm and above. At this speed of rotation, the motor begins to heat up, and any addition energy just goes to make heat rather than changing the electricity into rotary motion.
To eliminate these losses in power, the EVT was chosen to blend the power from both electric motors (the primary traction motor and a smaller motor/generator). The EVT, a planetary gear transmission built within the motors casing, lets both electric motors operate in their optimum range. No additional current is required; it is just split between the two motors. Of course there will be some addition losses due to the gearing but such loss is minor. GM states that the EVT increases efficiency overall by 10% – 15% at high speeds.
The EVT even allows some mechanical power from the ICE to assist the primary motor to drive the wheels. The ICE is engaged through a clutch to the generator. which is generating electricity for the primary motor, but is also connected through another clutch which is engaged to directly connect them to the planetary gear. This way some of the mechanical power of the ICE does go indirectly to powering the vehicles wheels.
I hope that this explanation was not to long but does help you to better understand the Volt drive train better.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.</b.
Oct 13th, 2010 (6:27 pm)And no doubt that’s what the vast majority of people will do. Which is a good thing. FWIW I explained the controversy to my wife who basically said, though more artfully, “who gives a sh_t?” I think that’s ultimately the conclusion everyone will come to.
In my mind one of the reasons for the kerfuffle, in addition to the fact that there a number of GM haters who seeming look for reasons to get worked up, is that some journalists feel they were lied to. This really whacks them off. Where they lied to? I don’t think so. Were they misled? I think so. Is that a bad thing? Not really. Sometimes misdirection is justified.
Personally I think as a journalist you should expect that when you’re interviewing people in the middle of a development effort you’re going to get some answers that end up being wrong. Sometimes this will happen because things change — an accurate answer can end up being inaccurate. And sometimes this will happen because if the choice is between being accurate and helping your competitors and being less than forthright for a period of time, the interviewee is going to be less than forthright. What dummy would think otherwise? Rather than be defensive I think you guys should own the fact that you wanted to leave a false impression. This wasn’t a major piece of information. It was a small technical detail that doesn’t matter in the overall larger picture. Shame on them for expecting anything different.
Now however different rules apply. Now if you are misleading it’s a problem.
Oct 13th, 2010 (6:28 pm)#192 LRGVProVolt,
So during EV or CD mode the second electric motor is used to reduce the speed of the main motor if speed is higher than 70 mph?
Oct 13th, 2010 (6:34 pm)That’s a great explanation but it reminds me of an old Gary Larson cartoon. In the cartoon a dog’s owner is giving the dog a long explanation of how the dog should behave. On the dog’s side what he hears is “Blah Blah Blah Blah DOGBONE”! I’m thinking we’re seeing the same thing here. You’re giving a great and long explanation about how this works and the average guy hears: “Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah HYBRID!”.
Hey, if all you know are a few words that you pick up.
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (6:35 pm)For all stopping in for information on the 2011 Volt. There are many technically deep comments and opinions expressed here at gm volt dot com. Yes, the Volt is technically advanced. And has described in the media as, “On the bleeding edge”.
But the Volt is also very easy to drive. Just place your right foot on the brake and push the start button. Automatically you will drive away in econo mode. Very smooth and quite easy to operate.
=D-Volt
Oct 13th, 2010 (6:36 pm)#182 Jackson,
Here it describes the general operation of the designline hybrids:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DesignLine_Corporation
Oct 13th, 2010 (6:43 pm)#182 Jackson,
Actually here is a better description of designline’s hybrids:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FZX/is_7_74/ai_n27971861/
Oct 13th, 2010 (6:49 pm)And i’m sure somewhere in China someone is copying it now.
Oct 13th, 2010 (6:50 pm)Not always. As demonstrated in the teleconference with graphic presentation cited over the last few days. At times when the generator producing current for the primary electric motor can’t be supplemented by the battery pack (remember there is some reserve kept for this purpose), then an additional clutch engages the the generator. Here since the ICE is engaged through the other clutch, the mechanical power of the ICE is then transferred to the planetary gear.
kdawg, it does have to do with the speed since it is the problem with the motor loosing power at 6500 rpm and above. The way the drive train determines when to shift to two motor mode depends at detecting when the primary motor is reaching that moment when torque fades. Is the system measuring torque or rotation speed? I believe that rpm measurement determines when this shift is made.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
-16
Oct 13th, 2010 (6:56 pm)(click to show comment)
+2
Oct 13th, 2010 (7:03 pm)Well the problem is of course is there is a lot of things about the Volt’s behavior where the BEST answer would be “it depends” but people (especially automotive journalists) won’t accept that. So hey pres for clarification and whomever is being grilled is essentially “forced” into giving an answer. Trouble is the answer will be based solely on the individuals understanding of the way the Volt works, or at some point in time.
Keep in mind the Volt has been very much a TEAM effort and very few people, even at the highest levels, can actually KNOW everything.
Case in point the “meshing” of the MG1 into the planetary drive unit which enables it to both contribute torque but perhaps more importantly slow MG2 down BUT ONLY IF IT IS MORE EFFICIENT TO DO SO. This is based on a map of operating conditions vs. efficiency so that in CD mode the most electrically efficient solution is driving the Volt forward.
Same thing goes with the “>70mph in CS mode business”
It might not be EXACTLY 70mph when the ICE torque (via clutching) is introduced into the planetary drive because it depends on the precise road load variables that exists at the time in which road speed is only ONE of the factors affecting load. Grade, head/tail winds,payload, heck even tire pressures will have an effect on the Volt’s positioning on the efficiency map. You could be travelling slower or faster than 70mph when this occurs, that was one engineers “bingo” number but,,, it depends.
What Volt owners can count on is the Volt will utilize it’s sources of power in the most efficient manner possible for conditions that exist at all times.
“Just Drive and Smile!”
WopOnTour
Oct 13th, 2010 (7:11 pm)I think its karma for all the times journalists take statements out of context, and piss off the person getting interviewed.
In hindsight, maybe in 2007 GM should have just said, “We are going to make a very efficient car you plug in to recharge its batteries. See you in 2010″, and just left it at that. As much as I enjoyed following the engineering trials and tribulations, it was inevitably going to feed info to trolls/gm-haters as well. I guess silence would probably have been the best under-prom/over del. they could have done, and also protected all of their IP.
Oct 13th, 2010 (7:20 pm)The 6500rpm comes into play in CD mode not CS mode. He was talking about CS mode. The ICE kicks in mechanical torque in CS when the torque is required and what is most efficient according to the efficiency map. AF talked about this in the phonecall that was posted today/yesterday.
http://www.plugincars.com/exclusive-chevrolet-volt-chief-engineer-explains-volt-drivetrain-says-volt-electric-vehicle-90758.ht
Oct 13th, 2010 (7:24 pm)I think your response here was a response to my mechanical connection post (not sure). Anyway, I said no direct connection. Its an indirect connection.
Oct 13th, 2010 (7:30 pm)That makes you wonder if Google manages to develop the self-driving car, would you let it have all the fun?
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (7:31 pm)Here is Motor Trend’s explanation of exactly how far, and how aggressively they drove to get their 126mpg figure – http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/2010/1010_127_mpg_chevy_volt_diaries/real_world_experience.html
Color me impressed. I seriously cannot wait to take delivery of my Volt in a few months.
Oct 13th, 2010 (7:32 pm)One smile at a time.
Be well,
Tagamet
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (7:35 pm)Ok, so some magic ECU “blends” the power from both electric motors, the motor generator and the ICE. (I think I am understanding how this thing works) How hard would it be to “Tweek” the output for more power, or more importantly for more totally electric output. If the ECO button was held in for 13 seconds, could the ICE remain unconnected in range extended mode without damaging the Volt? I think that limiting top speed would even be OK. Not that I would do that, however it is possible to force a Prius to remain in Electric only mode for a period of time with a paper clip. Seems some folks are philosophically opposed to connecting the ICE to the wheel. Me I would like to see a Volt with full torque delivery, at least one or twice.
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (7:40 pm)Talk about an EUREKA moment!
Driving the Volt down EUREKA RD, see the picture at the top of the post.
/slightly disappointed no Red Volts…
+3
Oct 13th, 2010 (7:40 pm)I see you still don’t understand, greater than 100 mpg for 91% of american consumers.
At an effective price of 33500.00 this is a good option for mainstream.
Yes the next gen will even be better, isn’t this like saying the sky is blue?
Oct 13th, 2010 (7:43 pm)Thanks for the compliment but I think you can keep it. You remind me of Lou Costello slapping Bud Abbot in the face.
If the average guy hears “Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Hybrid” then I doubt he understands what was said because he didn’t really take the time to understand. Which category do you fit into? If you feel that way, just move on to the next post! Your comment does nothing to add to he conversation. If on the other hand your trying to interject some humor, it got lost in the translation.
Should I say “Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah TROLL”!
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Oct 13th, 2010 (7:45 pm)Still trying to figure this thing out, It is like wrapping a solar cell around the exhaust pipe?
Or are all red cars sports cars? Or is it like time travel???
+3
Oct 13th, 2010 (7:49 pm)Everyone on the planet should raise a glass of wine for the Chevrolet Volt development team and tell them simply this … well done … you’ve really made a difference in the world !!! That’s what is really important after you are dead and gone you know.
Oct 13th, 2010 (7:51 pm)I’d only add one small item to your list:
-and none of the above matters!
JMO.
Be well,
Tagamet
+2
Oct 13th, 2010 (7:56 pm)AMEN! Way back at VoltNation I, the engineering team just about burst with pride about the project. Now we’re nearing the release date. All of GM has a right to be very proud!
Be well,
Tagamet
+7
Oct 13th, 2010 (7:59 pm)GM’s alternative to the EVT could have been a more powerful motor but that would have added more weight. I’m excited about what GM does with Gen2 and GEN3! Better electric motors and a better ICE! Then maybe you will have your wish. And won’t have to what long for it’
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+4
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:04 pm)This right here is HIGH PRAISE indeed … from Bill Reinert, national manager for Toyota Motor Corp.’s advanced technology group:
“I don’t think it really matters to the viability of the Volt,” Reinert said in an interview on the sidelines of the Business of Plugging In conference. “I don’t think they’re going to lose one customer if someone calls (the Volt) a hybrid.”
“Whether it’s a hybrid or an extended range EV, it’s still an interesting car, a challenging car and ALL CONGRATS FOR THEM TO DO IT.”
http://www.detnews.com/article/20101013/UPDATE/10130423/1361/Toyota-says-Volt-controversy-won-t-hurt-GM-sales
Kudos to Bill Reinert at Toyota for being honest and “calling it like he sees it” like a good baseball umpire would.
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:10 pm)They already are in Canada.
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:15 pm)Lyle, no doubt, enjoys the diversion that running this blog and reporting about the Volt gives him. It’s a great stress reliever! With a job like that he needs a diversion like this provides. Now, he has a great toy (ops vehicle) to play with for three months.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:18 pm)John,
I have been skeptical of the CS mpg. I predicted mid-30′s, with best case of low 40′s. If (Big IF) the Volt can achieve a blended mpg of mid to upper 40′s I would consider GM as meeting expectations on this parameter.
Price is still the biggest issue, and hopefully GEN 2 and other EV’s can break the $30k barrier (w/o rebates/kickbacks).
These are exciting times, agree?
+2
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:19 pm)NBC’s Today Show says 120,000 people have responded to the Volt advertising and are interested in buying one. This would be about the number of leads to sell out a 50k manufacturing run.
http://www.hulu.com/watch/184690/nbc-today-show-chevy%E2%80%99s-electric-volt-hits-the-road
Motor Trend’s Trip Log details Volt’s “observed” mileage 126.7 MPG:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:20 pm)I’m not convinced that the mechanical connection of the generator actually provides ANY mechanical assistance to propel the vehicle. Its primary purpose is to provide an efficient gear ratio for the traction motor–absolutely necessary since the gen cannot provide this function itself while functioning as a generator. Of course it COULD be programmed to provide assist but it could also be tuned as a neutral net mechanical assist. Either way is fine by me, whatever is most efficient.
This is well explained by Loboc in #169 and others yesterday (amidst the din of less knowledgeable outcries). I have not yet found an explanation from a GM source that confirms this so perhaps it does assist mechanically but if so, it seems sensible to expand this mode to other speeds (while in CS mode) if it would improve efficiency.
I’m looking forward to later tweaks that improve overall efficiency using only the tools built into the Volt already.
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:21 pm)I don’t drink wine. Would a glass of iced tea do?
Raymond
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:27 pm)You mean it gets better than this? I have not even seen a Gen1 Volt, yet and you say Gen2 & GEN3 are a knocking on the door! It is a good thing most people do not read down this far on the thread.
The Beauty of a Volt… Time Travel
+2
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:27 pm)Ok,
Just gotta say it.
DAMN, I WANT ONE!
\Having a butt load of cash about now would sure be nice
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:31 pm)“The Volt, in the few minutes I had to take it for a spin, had a quick acceleration, good handling on the road and, when the electric motor alone was running, only the sound of the road and the wind to tell me the vehicle was in motion. Not a bad beginning and perhaps, just perhaps, worth the $41,000 price tag GM has assigned it.” Reuters
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUS47274715720101012
+5
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:35 pm)This just in from the Institute for the Incredibly Obvious…
Be well,
Tagamet
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:38 pm)Yep. I know…but what can I say?
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:51 pm)I think that you said it well, for a lot of us!
(Is it Gen II yet?)
Be well,
Tagamet
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:51 pm)http://vxlive.feedroom.com/feedroom/http/4000/5172/6999/7438/Lobby/default.htm
At about 19:58 in the video they show the EVT and at 20:22 the bar graphs are shown. Larry Nitz specifically states that you can drive up 100 in all electric mode. IN CS mode, it shows the connection of the ICE and generator after synchronization of the speeds.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Oct 13th, 2010 (8:57 pm)It should scare the pants off of the competition!
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Oct 13th, 2010 (9:01 pm)Sure, here’s some fleshly mixed ice tea!
Happy trails to yo ’til we meet again.
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Don’t tell him, I mixed in some red wine
Oct 13th, 2010 (9:17 pm)Ran across this Volt test drive on the unplugged tour. Sorry if this is a repeat. This is CS mode. The battery has been depleted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAMSRjgdOvU
Hopefully, the link posts.
Oct 13th, 2010 (9:44 pm)Is that anything like a metric crapload?
Oct 13th, 2010 (9:48 pm)Nice demo video. Can get a good feel of how the Volt takes sweeping corners at 40-50 mph. Isn’t anyone interested in hearing the Bose system? With six small speakers the treble highs should be fine. Curious about the bass. After reading several Bose car systems reviews. It appears that many produce great bass. With at least one reviewed as sounding average. Most reviews state the bass sounds very good. Not distant or muffled.
http://garfwod.250free.com/Volt_Trower_Sighs.mp3
=D-Volt
Oct 13th, 2010 (9:51 pm)Well, I guess I can’t lay claim to the idea after all.
I have my doubts that even Li/Ion is up to this; but then again, if you’re buying one of these buses you must have a metric crapload of cash to spend on a humongous battery pack.
Let’s hope something of the sort happens on a smaller scale, at lower cost; preferably to a Volt.
/Mmm, Micro turbines
Oct 13th, 2010 (9:59 pm)I was actually thinking of getting him to work up an estimate for me.
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (10:21 pm)I’ve been troubled that much of the media have done little to correct the mistaken impression that Voltec/EREV is a very complex drivetrain. Even my own two sons & a son-in-law, all three very bright practicing engineers, seem to think it’s pretty complex. Since I’ll be test driving a Volt on the Unplugged Tour with all of them (Whoppee!), I’ve put a single sheet showing the 2 cutaway photos I posted here yesterday together, along with captions that I think will help make it clear that the Voltec/EREV drivetrain is truly elegantly simple by contrast to state-of-the-art drive trains in today’s ICE cars. I hope you agree….
VOLT EVT (Electronically Variable Transmission) – Includes the following:
MG1 (149Hp), MG2 (74Hp), 1 Planetary Gear Set, 3 Clutches, CVs, Transaxles
State-of-the-Art Automatic Transmission – Includes the following:
Torque Converter, 2 or more Planetary Gear Sets, Numerous Clutches
+1
Oct 13th, 2010 (10:30 pm)PS: In the photo captions above I’ve tried to include the major components of both Volt’s EVT and the Automatic shown for contrast. Note that the Volt’s ICE attaches to the right side of its EVT and the half axles are its 2 outputs. The EVT includes the Volt’s “differentials” in the form of the CV joints, whereas the normal automatic below it, with the ICE attaching to its left side, still needs the differential at the rear of the car. WHAT A DIFFERENCE!
Oct 13th, 2010 (10:41 pm)Yes, this was one source I saw yesterday as well as Farah’s talk. Very informative and there’s no question the engine is mechanically engaged in this mode. It has to be if you want to vary the rpm of the traction motor and that is the primary purpose. What is not explicitly stated is if the engine also ADDS mechanical power to the mix. I would like to know if the 10-15% efficiency gain is solely from improving the traction motor’s RPM or if it is also in combination with adding mechanical motive power.
As I attempted to state, if added mechanical power improves efficiency above 70 MPH (when the obvious RPM moderation is needed), why not at other speeds as well? It sounds like the only reason to mechanically engage is to simply duplicate the EVT function of MG-A. Mechanical assist is truly not necessary, just RPM moderation. Anyway, I trust the engineers to have optimized the blend.
Very elegant piece of engineering!
Oct 13th, 2010 (10:49 pm)— That is quite a juxtaposition, nasaman—
I got my first Volt test drive in Seattle, and in spite of being tired from driving from NW California I still got the Volt smile on my face….
I experienced (not) the transition from CD to CS mode, just a change of icons to me…
I could hear the engine rev when I punched it for a small hill, in a kind of echo-y way, as it followed the performance demand…
Not much more I can add… it was something I did for myself.
My guide was not from marketing or engineering, he was a worker from Detroit-Hamtramk who was honored with a spot on the VU tour for his hard work. Cool!
——
Here is some scuttlebut from the factory floor for the Caddy Shack fan club:
The Voltec Cadillac is in the works fo sho… He didn’t know the term, Converj…
… for what it’s worth …..
——
In my exit interview when asked for my thoughts, I said, “It’s the most awesome piece of awesomeness, in the whole history of awesome.”
But what I wanted to say was ” Oh, Chevy Volt, you complete me…. You had me at Hello !!!”
But I thought that would make me sound like a fatuous fanboi, so I went with my original, sober and objective assessment…
Oct 13th, 2010 (10:54 pm)It would be fun if we could compare the parts lists between the two. I think that would be an eye opener.
Oct 13th, 2010 (10:57 pm)Nah they’ll just force GM to give it to them, or at least they are trying. If they fail in those efforts then I’m sure it will be copied. lol
I only laugh because it’s that or cry.
+2
Oct 13th, 2010 (11:01 pm)2 commnets.
Thanks Nasaman for the cutaway photos. I’m no engineer but it’s pretty obvious there is an order of magnitude more machining operations needed to make a modern 5 or 6 speed automatic transmission compared to the Volt gearcase, even with the electric motors installed. I think the engineering miracles in the Volt design are in the electronic controls and the battery with it’s cooling system.
Second comment is to Lyle. I know you may not get down to comment number 240 something, but if you happen to read this, can you tell us how far your electric Mini would have gone had you driven it the same way as the Volt was driven in your test? Just curious, if you got 45 miles out of the Volt, how far would the Mini have gone?
-9
Oct 13th, 2010 (11:26 pm)If you do a bit of simple math, you find that M/T averaged 36 miles AER and then 36mpg CS mode fuel economy.
Oct 14th, 2010 (12:35 pm)I really agree with you, nasaman.
With simplicity comes reliability. And, where there is reliability comes value retention.
I expect a Volt to hold its value exceptionally well.