I had the chance to ride in the Chevrolet Volt prototype that GM staff drove from Austin Texas to New York City on July 4th.
This particular prototype, called “a golden IVer” due to its proximity to a final production car, had been built in December 2009, and had nearly 10,000 engineering miles on it. The software controls were more than 99% complete according to Will Handzel, the GM controls engineer who actually drove the car. Interior surfacing was still a bit rudimentary and there was a bit of wear and tear inside.
This was my first chance to ride in the Volt (I had the passenger seat) in real-world highway driving situations, though I have driven it for about an hour, sub-50 mph around around a test track. We took the car about 15 miles from Liberty Park in NJ to midtown Manhattan.
I found the car very cheerful, pleasant and bright. It was spacious and airy inside. Even though the day was bright and sunny, the LCD displays were very bright, crisp and vivid. I saw the OnStar navigation system in action and it worked perfectly, as did the handsfree phone and the capacitive controls, though Will felt they took a bit of getting used to.
When we started off in the car it had about 4 miles of EV range, and once again I missed the switchover to generator mode, never noticing it. The car was smooth and solid all the way. The only sound I could notice was from the fan from the air conditioning which worked terrifically, in comfort mode, on a day it was more than 95 degrees outside.
I specifically asked Will to demonstrate accelerating from 55 to 80 MPH, while we were on the highway. When I asked him, he said throughout his 1776 mile drive, and indeed all his Volt driving, passing on the highway was never a problem. ”We never had an issue,” he said. Acceleration from low speed and stop certainly wasn’t a problem, the car springs onto the highway with gusto.
Acceleration from 55 to 80 was strong and linear. There was no customary downshift effect people may be accustomed to in traditional vehicles, but, that really didn’t matter. The car swiftly made it to high passing speed in a constant and confident fashion.
Yes, this is different than a standard gas car, but in my opinion represented no trade off or loss of function. It worked wonderfully well.
It was also very quiet while driving. After getting out and standing aside it, while it was idling in the heat, the engine could be heard running.
Still no final word on final fuel efficiency numbers, as GM still says they are being negotiated with the EPA, but obviously will be finalized and made public soon. Expectations are that fuel economy will be somewhat above that of the best-in-class standard gas compact car.
In conclusion, there are no surprises here, the car handles capably in the highway setting.
You can check out my experience in the video below:
This entry was posted on Tuesday, July 6th, 2010 at 6:18 am and is filed under Performance, Test drive, Video. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
+5
Jul 6th, 2010 (6:22 am)All good news; thanks.
+7
Jul 6th, 2010 (6:23 am)Great reporting as always, Lyle! And in this video you’ve addressed and “put to bed” the concern I’ve often expressed that the Volt’s “passing acceleration” might be inadequate. To the contrary, watching the speedo numbers in this video as Will hits the throttle, I conclude the Volt has plenty of “zip” from 55-80 mph!
(This test was not really practical in all the “parking lot test drives”, including the one I did at Pier 92 in NYC.)
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (6:32 am)PS to my comment #2 above: However, this leaves me curious as to what Bob Lutz might have meant when he publicly said, when asked if the Volt had a transmission, that (paraphrasing), “it has a transmission unlike any other car”.
/Maybe: Mountain mode, ECO mode, Comfort mode, Sport mode???
+4
Jul 6th, 2010 (6:37 am)Thanks Lyle!
+2
Jul 6th, 2010 (6:40 am)Lyle, thanks for the report.
And also thanks to GM for the Volt preview at Criswell over the weekend. Please forgive if others already commented on the event but the “news” that I got was that within a month GM will be putting together a marketing package/brochure for their dealerships and that will include the MSRP. So it appears that about one more month until pricing is released.
I asked Tony if they will be releasing the CS MPG at the same time and he indicated that they will wait for the EPA to officially put out a number on it. He also said that they won’t get their official crash test ratings until the fall but in internal crash tests he said they performed well and believe that they could get 5 stars. When he mentioned that the Volt had 8 airbags in their standard package my wife really happy with that.
Anyway, Tony was very knowledgeable and seemed to genuinely enjoy talking to the crowd that had gathered. The only downer was that Criswell had said when I called them on Thursday that there wouldn’t be any test drives. When I got there they indeed were allowing people to take a lap around the parking lot. Unfortunately, little did I know that they limited the amount of people taking turns and I didn’t get a chance to drive it. Other than that, everything was great.
Once again, thanks Tony, GM and Criswell!
Jul 6th, 2010 (6:45 am)re: Alex Cattelan’s comments and the front wheel drive 2-mode housing
Not that we’ve been given enough detail to really understand what they are doing but we have made some interesting guesses.
+4
Jul 6th, 2010 (6:45 am)PS #2 to my #2 comment above: Regarding passing acceleration, from the video it looks like Will got from ~60 to ~80mph in about 8 secs. Not bad.
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (6:47 am)“After getting out and standing aside it, while it was idling in the heat, the engine could be heard running.”
What? I thought the engine would stop below a certain speed like 20mph even if in CS mode. At least while slowing down. I understand that this is a prototype so may not be same as production, but seems very surprising. If the engine was idling, then it was not in an efficient charging mode.
+8
Jul 6th, 2010 (6:48 am)GM’s engineering team has obviously done a great job on the Volt.
Now let’s see if GM’s business people get their act together an build enough 2012 model Volts to satisfy demand.
+18
Jul 6th, 2010 (6:54 am)Probably has to do with the air conditioner being set to max on a sunny 95 degree day.
In other words, there are other things besides the traction motor that require some electricity, and if the battery is in charge sustaining mode, the ICE may turn on to maintain that charge level. Since the air conditioner requires much less power than the traction motor, the ICE would be on a low setting, which would seem like it’s idling.
Jul 6th, 2010 (6:54 am)Lyle,
Did you do any super sluething with fillups and gas remaining, or has GM asked for discretion until they announce more?
“Well…Will (Can I call you Will?) I know you folks have been charging where you can. If you don’t mind my asking, how many miles of the trip have you been able to drive in CD mode? Have people recognized the Volt when you’ve stopped to fill up? When was your last fill up (as Lyle eyes the remaining gas as displayed on the crisp LCD monitor)?”
Jul 6th, 2010 (6:57 am)Roy,
Good observation(#8).
I have to wonder though…didn’t GM say the generator does NOT charge the battery? So if you’re in CS mode, isn’t that the only power source until recharge via plug? (And at a stop, you need power for AC, controls, radio, etc.)
I may have this wrong, and if so, someone please correct me.
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:01 am)Thanks for a great report. Your reports just whet my appetite for owning and driving a Volt. Can’t wait until they become more widely available. I think GM has raised the bar on gas/electric vehicles.
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:05 am)Good report Lyle. Get a chance to ask about options?
=D-Volt
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:08 am)Air conditioning and heating are the only items that require significant amounts of power.
Controls, Radio, even headlights are all much less.
+4
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:11 am)I don’t think that should be taken too literally. It should behave like a standard hybrid. and charge a little to get just over 30% then off a little until slightly below 30%, the battery is not disconnected from the loop, just not recharged back up to full.
+3
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:12 am)“Still no final word on final fuel efficiency numbers, as GM still says they are being negotiated with the EPA, but obviously will be finalized and made public soon. Expectations are that fuel economy will be somewhat above that of the best-in-class standard gas compact car.”
OK. Fine. We don’t need to hear the EPA fuel efficiency yet. We can wait for that.
But could you PLEASE tell us the mileage this particular VOLT got on this particlular trip?
1776 miles. Somebody was putting gas in. How many gallons? Do the math and tell us the mileage.
How can you do a PR event like this and NOT tell the gas mileage? I thought reducing gasoline usage and getting better gas mileage was the whole point of the car.
We are four months from launch.
My “stay tuned” button is wearing awfully thin.
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:13 am)AC at max probably consumes about 1700w, about what you need to drive at a constant 15mph… you dont want the genset to be cycling all the time, I would prefer a constant low level speed and throttle up as needed.. you wont hear it inside the cabin anyways.
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:15 am)What a great fourth of July Lyle!
Now, when do you get yours?
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:18 am)“After getting out and standing aside it, while it was idling in the heat, the engine could be heard running.”
I stood outside the Volt in Gaithersburg while the A/C was running but the engine wasn’t. I could here the blower for the A/C even while the engine was off according to the GM guy in the driver’s seat (it may have been Will Handzel). Lyle, was the engine definitely running?
I have no problem with the engine powering the A/C when the battery is at minimum charge state.
+11
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:18 am)As I understand it, the generator does charge the battery a little bit, but they try to minimize that by adjusting the ICE/genset output to match the power demands of the car as closely as possible. This imporves efficiency by avoiding unnessary electrical->checmical->electrical conversions.
However, in charge sustaining mode, the ICE/genset only provides half the peak power, so for heavy acceleration of high-spped uphill driving, the battery level will depleat below the charge sustaining level, so the ICE/genset will charge the battery significantly after that, as shown below:
-11
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:19 am)(click to show comment)
+6
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:21 am)By now we know that reporter in the Telegraph was full of C**P and a lies. Remember his name, Andrew English.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/green-motoring/7851482/Volt-shock.html
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:22 am)Glad to hear the Freedom ride went well and that they included Lyle and our very own GM-Volt people in on the Independence Day celebration. Hope to hear some other impressions of the day soon!
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:22 am)Seems like nobody knows or is saying at this point, but I always thought CS might do some charging to replenish battery back up to 35% state of charge after some event like passing or a hill used it down. I also think, but this is just me talking, that spreading battery assist over the range of the gas tank, might be better than 40 miles all electric, when cruising on the highway. Saving the 40 miles all electric for the last tank that would come to within 40 miles of your destination. Of course the a GPS, and trip computer would do all this thinking for you. Again, this is just me thinking.
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:23 am)Yes, perhaps.. but do you plan to join the 60/60 Club?
1. 60 miles CD mode
2. 60 mpg CS mode
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:24 am)Dave G,
Thanks for the chart. The point I don’t understand is item #6. Why would the ICE continue running and charging the battery while in regen?
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:27 am)Published Volt route & destination?
Discreetly followed a Volt with binoculars to check gas pump on fillup…
Figured about 98mpg, however that guy with the can at the hotel??
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:29 am)I’m assuming they charged it up in Gaithersburg.
Even if they didn’t, the gas engine may, or may not run in charge sustaining mode with the car stopped and the AC on max. It would depend on the internal cabin temperature and the particular charge level on the battery at the time. In other words, the gas engine would only turn on when the AC is drawing a lot of power and the battery charge level dips below the customer depletion point.
-2
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:29 am)Why you need an iPhone 4 with that Volt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7yD-0pqZg&feature=player_embedded
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:31 am)Good point, how a person drives will ultimately determine range and MPG, again just like a regular car. Volt just gives you more tools to work with.
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:32 am)In other words, if you peg the throttle to the floor for a significant time (more than 4 minutes) the engine will have to recharge the battery back up the moment you slow down.. but it will only recharge the least possible amount.
The genset is designed to sustain the charge level in the battery, not to increase it.. but at some times it may have to do a bit more recharging to catch up with previous demands.
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:34 am)Very funny Red
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:37 am)Given the power I imagine it takes to spin the ICE electrically, it wouldn’t surprise me if it would sometimes depend more on whether the ICE was already running and anticipated to be needed soon, as to whether or not it shuts off. So you may have the ICE running or not running under the same conditions at times. (I hope that came out right!)
-8
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:38 am)I doubt we’ve heard the last of the power fade issue. This won’t be an issue of brief acceleration, it’ll show up under longer periods of high power demand.
Chevy Volt Will Have Driver Selectable Mountain Mode
http://gm-volt.com/2010/05/05/chevy-volt-will-have-driver-selectable-mountain-mode/
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:39 am)Yes.
Because you don’t want the genset to cycle every time you hit the brakes. Turning the gas engine on and off frequently wastes fuel and increases emissions.
If you’re on a long downhill grade, the engine will probably turn off after a while. But there will be short periods of time where the battery will recharge from both regenerative braking and the gas engine.
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:41 am)Maybe we’ll see an article in National Inquirer soon, from the guy who kept that filler pipe within eye site the whole trip.
+2
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:41 am)Very nice picture from the Clean MPG forum:
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33356
+2
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:45 am)I doubted the reports of anemic high speed acceleration, and I suspect they were probably just a mind trick triggered by the lack of aggressive transmission shifting.
Remember the “old days”, when there was a brief debate on whether the Volt ICE would rev higher during aggresive CS-mode acceleration just to satisfy people’s preconception of good acceleration? If you do remember that, then it’s time to turn off your computer and get a life.
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:50 am)I think the best in class compact cars get about 35 MPG highway, so if I am not being misled, the Volt in CS mode should get 36 MPG or better. Anyone see it differently, i.e lower?
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:51 am)Everything’s relative, I can’t wait for the turbo engined volt, with direct connect ability, that might do 60 to 80 in a couple of seconds, and still do 40 or more miles with no gas, by the way.
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:53 am)Touché
http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/29/latest-chevy-volt-battery-pack-and-generator-details-and-clarifications/
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:55 am)Best in compact class gets 45mpg hwy, so the Volt should do better than that.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byEPAclass.htm
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:56 am)I think I’m going to take a little vacation.
That’s probably out of my skill set. Call Wayne Gerdes. I’m sure he could do it.
+2
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:57 am)I’d get that button fixed; you might miss some exciting info, mikeinnatl
Lyle, this report but to rest many of the trolls questions over the past few days. Thanks!
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:58 am)Thanks Lyle, a great report. Sounds as if connecting with a dealor for a firm commitment to get a Volt could happen in about a month. How wonderful!
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (8:02 am)It must have been quite the party. So far all the pictures have been quite tipsy.
I took the Liberty of cropping a picture from yesterday to make the Volt level.
Jul 6th, 2010 (8:07 am)You mean Direct Injection?.. I’m not looking forward to that, there is a loud ticking noise associated with the high pressure injectors and perhaps some issues with deposit build up in the valves.. plus the higher cost of course. Dan Pettit might know for sure. The important thing for the Volt is to reduce the cost.. its not that important to increase the mpg in the seldom used CS mode.
GM has stated the Volt does not use an atkinson cycle, but I think they do and just call it a different name.. in any case you cant have a turbo with an atkinson engine, the whole point of that cycle is that there is very little energy left in the exhaust.. just barely enough to keep the catalytic converter light up. You can use a supercharger, make it electric of course.
The ICE in the Volt runs at a leisurely 4500rpms, they could always increase that if more power is needed.. or perhaps go to the 1.8L engine.
They will have to do something different for the Voltec Camaro SS, perhaps use the Ecotec 2.0L engine.. this one puts out 372hp
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_0907_gm_ecotec_bolt_ons/index.html
Jul 6th, 2010 (8:09 am)Your thinking was correct, EcoTurbo. You missed a passed article covering this issue which DaveG sites in #21. See #6 (Extended Range Mode Regenerative Braking) in the chart there.
Happy trails to you ’til we meet again.
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (8:10 am)A couple of questions.
I hate when passengers look at my gas gage and keep reminding me of the price of gas as I pass stations by.
Did you, as a passenger, have an ability to see as much driver info as you wanted either from the drivers screen or the center console?
Did you note any type of anxiety from Will regarding the economy of the system while on the highway? The ICE did, after all, need to continue charging the battery while at idle.
Did you question the use of mountain mode outside of a mountain situation?
What parts of the EPA testing criteria need to be negotiated? Any hint?
Did you get any info about changes that will be made for either the 2012 Volt or the 2nd generation car?
If the Volt delivers real world efficiency numbers that beat the Fusion or even the Prius, the Volt, as heavy as it is, will be the new standard for automotive engineering. Did you get that feeling of pride from the Volt staff?
Pleas let us know, well in advance, when a significant press conference will be coming up.
Jul 6th, 2010 (8:10 am)Very nice, perhaps you could remove the stop light also?
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (8:11 am)It means some version of two-mode, likely making possible all those unusual features you named.
+2
Jul 6th, 2010 (8:19 am)Lyle
Thanks for your report and VIDEO!
The info about the acceleration for passing was great.
GM has created a great electric series hybrid.
They need to get it to market in large numbers at a reasonable price.
A lot of us are waiting. :+}
+7
Jul 6th, 2010 (8:22 am)I’m gonna put the “Volt-performance-mind-bender-quiz-game” down. Maybe someday soon we’ll actually get some “official” numbers/independent test drives.
I’ve been spending too much time on the internets, so I’m gonna take a break from posting. ( … and give those -1 clickers a break as well) :0
Thanks for your reporting, Lyle. It’s always interesting.
Jul 6th, 2010 (8:29 am)Herm #48 said:
They will have to do something different for the Voltec Camaro SS, perhaps use the Ecotec 2.0L engine.. this one puts out 372hp.
I’d like to see NASCAR create a class where the only restriction is 4 cyl less than 2.5 litres. May the best car win.
+3
Jul 6th, 2010 (8:30 am)SUFFERING CATS why do we need to even CARE about EPA’s MPG determination ??
MPG is the wrong metric for anything related to transportation. It’s a moronic measurement arrived at by committee to check a box on a government form.
It might be just as idiotic as the Body Mass Index, which is pefectly capable of giving a heroin addict a perfect score for life insurance.
Jul 6th, 2010 (8:37 am)The engineering staff has done a remarkable job of selling the Volt. The EPA numbers are for the general public and advertising fodder. I don’t care about the EPA except for comparison purposes. Since the Volt is the only EREV out there, how will we measure and judge the followers?
+2
Jul 6th, 2010 (8:40 am)I don’t think people appreciate the “instant” part. With an automatic, they actually feel a loss of acceleration before the lower gear kicks in as the engine winds up. Not so with the Volt.
+4
Jul 6th, 2010 (8:43 am)Well done Lyle. The best thing GM can do is what they let you do on the Freedom Ride: film it first-hand, and let the rest of the world see the Volt in action for itself. Congrats to the engineering team that has worked tirelessly to put together such a great car, and now, as Dave G. stated, I hope the business people at GM do an equally good job. After all, a great engineering team put together a great car in the EV1, but the top brass let us all down on that one. Hopefully history doesn’t repeat itself with a car as beautiful as the Volt.
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (8:43 am)Lyle, as always a great first hand report….
One question… you said “When we started off in the car it had about 4 miles of EV range, and once again I missed the switchover to generator mode, never noticing it.” Did you ever figure out how the car had 4 miles of EV range left? I’m assuming they had been driving for a while that morning…. Did they charge up at the rest area for a short period prior to picking you up? Or did they have a mobile charging unit traveling with them?
Jul 6th, 2010 (9:01 am)On the video, Will said, “Tony put it in Mountain Mode for awhile.” Apparently Mountain Mode not only can keep you above the ~30% point, it can also put you above ~30% and back into EV mode. Am I wrong?
Jul 6th, 2010 (9:06 am)Probably everybody’s wrong at this point because they never talk about anything other than a 99% complete car. I just like the capabilities they hint at!
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (9:10 am)Will Handzel sounds like my kind of guy. He didn’t seem to mind being filmed breaking the speed limit.
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (9:14 am)The question is: Is the Volt a compact or midsize class and is the Prius in the same class?
Jul 6th, 2010 (9:20 am)Hard to say, the numbers say it is in the midsize class but thats not what GM says.. the EPA will decide. Same thing with the Cruze..
+4
Jul 6th, 2010 (9:20 am)“In conclusion, there were no suprises here. . .”
‘Doesn’t get much better than that! The familar driving experience of the Volt, combined with the fact that it runs almost completely on electricity, spells S-U-C-C-E-S-S in my mind
NPNS!
+3
Jul 6th, 2010 (9:21 am)I was also at Criswell on Saturday in Gaithersburg. I got to ride in the back seat around the dealership. The volt was really comfortable to sit in. I am 6 feet and quite, um, large (read: fat). The gentlemen in the other two seats were not small (though they probably weighed less) and Will (who I think was our driver) is not a tiny person either. On a pretty hot day, the AC was easily keeping the car cool. Between Will and Tony, we heard a lot of information (including the point above that the marketing brochure should be out in the next month or so).
I even think, based on what they were saying, if demand is high enough, they may actually try to build enough cars to meet demand.
Jul 6th, 2010 (9:25 am)#64 Herm said:
Best in compact class gets 45mpg hwy, so the Volt should do better than that.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byEPAclass.htm
Thanks for the link Herm.
I found my car and see that I regularly beat the EPA rating on MPG. I never thought about it before.
Jul 6th, 2010 (9:27 am)Normally, when the battery gets down to around 30% charge, the gas engine turns on to maintain that charge level. This is called the “customer depletion point” or CDP.
In mountain mode, everything is the same except they raise the CDP to some higher level, maybe 50% or 60%, I’m not sure. This gives you a lot of reserve power to drive fast on very long steep uphill roads.
If you are at the normal 30% CDP and turn on mountain mode, the gas engine will turn on and start charging the battery up to the higher mountain mode CDP. Once you get up to the new higher CDP, if you then turn mountain mode off, you have pure EV mode for some number of miles, since the battery level is higher than the 30% CDP.
I believe mountain mode is one of those useless features that most people will never use, but it probably didn’t cost a lot to add it.
+4
Jul 6th, 2010 (9:31 am)That’s about a half ton of people on board! (if there were 4 of you) …
I wonder what the capacity rating for the Volt will be. You guys would easily have bogged down some imported SUV’s out there.
You have just considerably increased my confidence in the Volt to be able to take anybody anywhere for any occasion and at any time.
Cool.
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (9:32 am)lol, people still don’t get it. It’s all getting converted into electricity whether you’re moving or not! Having the engine run while at 20 mph allows it to not have to rev up when you get to 40 mph? That’s like thinking that you aren’t making money on all of the days that you don’t get paid when you go to work, it’s balanced out on that one day that they do pay you. I don’t know if that’s all that good of an analogy, but trust that it’s not being wasted. Get it?!
Jul 6th, 2010 (9:35 am)I like that feature!
When I use it will I be a “Mountain Man?”
When I get my VOLT I do plan to travel and some of that travel will be in the mountains. ( yes I know a prius may be the better choice for long trips on gas saving)
I will be spending the bulk of my at home time going < 40 miles a day so this car will be the better option.
+13
Jul 6th, 2010 (9:35 am)Nice Video! What strikes me is the completely normal driving attitude, ie: “geez, it’s hot outside, let’s crank up the air,” not (as you would with a pure electric vehicle with no range-extention) “geez it’s hot outside but I’ve only got 20% battery left, so I won’t make it home if I turn the air on, so I’ll just crank the window down instead and suffer. At least I’ll make it home. Wish I could do some more errands… but I’ll have to wait until tomorrow after I charge this turkey up. Or I could go home and get my OTHER car and drive it until this BEV is ready to go again tomorrow. Yeah that’s it… good thing I have my regular gas car at home waiting for me. This electric car is not all it’s cracked up to be… maybe I should have bought the VOLT.”
+2
Jul 6th, 2010 (9:38 am)Everybody will get it when they find themselves making a lot of trips to the local Tank and Tummy to get beer and cigarettes without having to fill the tank.
Jul 6th, 2010 (9:39 am)I do slightly better than EPA.
EPA = 13/15/18
Observed = 15/16/20
Hard to say if my ‘city’ = 45% and my ‘highway’ = 55%. I think I do a little more highway.
This is where we get off into the weeds discussing gas mileage. There are so many variables and the main variable is the driver!
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (9:44 am)I wonder what people will do with all the unsellable hulks from traded in electric cars that the batteries got canibalized from.
+4
Jul 6th, 2010 (9:50 am)Crap, just changed my mind again.
IMO, this is a vehicle worth waiting for. In the meantime, I’ll drive a beater or take the bus, or whatever.
Patience is a virtue, patience is a virtue, ohmmm….
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (10:03 am)Great reporting! Knowing the AC works very well in 95 degree heat and that it accelerates well on the highway were both concerns I can now cross of the list. GREAT NEWS!!
+6
Jul 6th, 2010 (10:06 am)All Chevrolet needs now is a really great commercial with Katherine Heigl as the spokesperson and “Vehicle” by the Ides of March as the BG music!
I’ve been waiting for 3 years to be able to take deposits and the big boss now says “Go for it.”
+3
Jul 6th, 2010 (10:07 am)I saw it in Gaithersburg MD. Unfortunately I was so busy with Honey dues I missed Lyle’s post about the 5 Rides and so all I could do is sit in it. Still it was nice to sit in it and feel it. It was the first time my Wife saw it (I saw it at the DC Auto Show before). She also sat in it. Her reaction … The Trunk is to small … I said to her it is bigger then our Nissan Hybrid and close to our Jetta. Of course the Jetta is gone and she drives our CUV currently which of course has a huge trunk. then she complained about the ride height. I was starting to get disappointed as the next new car is hers. But she agreed to let me put a deposit down. We are Number 9 at Criswell Chevrolet. On our drive home she finally admitted she liked the Volt but wanted to cool my jets till our solar system is paid of. So I am going to do my best to get the Solar System paid of. After all the Volt was a big reason (Not the only one so) for the Solar System.
Jul 6th, 2010 (10:13 am)It’s the same thing as a car missing the transmission, axel or engine.
Most used cars are worth more as parts than as complete cars. Especially newer cars with no compatible parts in the used pipe (junkyards) already.
It won’t be an issue.
Jul 6th, 2010 (10:15 am)OK, maybe a dumb question. This “golden IVer” was made in Dec. of 2009. I thought that all of the hand-made cars were made in May of 2009 and then the first cars from Hamtramck were made in March of 2010. Have more Volts been built than we were lead to believe?
-3
Jul 6th, 2010 (10:16 am)Good video, Thanks Lyle .
I still have a feeling that we are somewhere missing the point of acceleration/torque issue. All the demonstration happens in US allowed highway speeds ( say 80/100 miles ). The problem seems reported at roads like autobahn where people don’t need to worry on speed limits. So i expect this problem should be there ( as a corner case / known case ). This is think should be well known to GM from EV1 to project driveway to volt ( may be it came up only in volt because other projects were never internationally tested ). May be as Volt is specified with 100 mph max will make this problem never appear ( 65% calibrated one may not have the speed limitation as its supposed to discover problems )
Another question is – if both motors can work parallel, means the generator also is connected to wheel, The generator is directly connected with ice, this sounds to me “there is an indirect/direct mechanical path from ICE to wheels as generator motor can work parallel/supplement traction motor which is connected to wheels as ICE is directly coupled with generator motor”. Now if direct path is there , its same as 2 mode (just a variant ). So i don’t think both motors can work parallel to drive wheels but for effective regeneration generator motor driven by wheel is a must. So ,i think Voltec is going to be taken over by 2 mode in future.
Jul 6th, 2010 (10:17 am)Done, If it is still there refresh the page.
Now if I could only make it red…
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (10:23 am)I stood outside the Volt in gaithersburg too. This was right after they pulled the vehicle out of its parking spot and then brought it back, and before my test drive. I’m not sure the a/c was on (but it was quite hot that day, so I would guess so) but I could hear the engine idling.
Or if it wasn’t the ICE then it was a large pump or something. It was fairly quiet (softer than my Prius when its ICE is idling) but definitely audible.
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (10:43 am)That’s good news. Congrats.
Jul 6th, 2010 (10:59 am)With software work we do continuous development right through initial launch and beyond.
I am thinking something similar is happening here. They probably do some batching (compile and test cycles in my world), but, they also probably do something every day (build some more code for testing).
What ever happened to the 500 units the feds ordered? I thought they were supposed to be pre-production.
Jul 6th, 2010 (11:05 am)“Still no final word on final fuel efficiency numbers, as GM still says they are being negotiated with the EPA,”
I don’t getit. How are they (GM) able to negotiate? I aint the sharpest tool in the shed but I thought GM gives them a car to test, they (EPA) test it. Period. Then they report the results.
Am I wrong? Seems kind of crooked to me.
Jul 6th, 2010 (11:09 am)#88 Capt-Jack-Sparrow Said:
But with software changes Volt can be anything from a gas guzzler to a pure EV. Maybe the EPA says OK this one tested XX, you want to sent another one or are you happy with that?
+2
Jul 6th, 2010 (11:19 am)Michigan Guy
I always enjoy your posts as they use common sense and are right on.
Keep it up
Jul 6th, 2010 (11:38 am)Hi #69 Dave G said: “I believe mountain mode is one of those useless features that most people will never use, but it probably didn’t cost a lot to add it.”
Not so. The bane on EV range is multiplied battery load (or dissipation) directly proportional to the incline of a roadway. Hills and mountains. Moreover, in winter adding risk of battery depletion in traffic while depending on VOLT’s HVAC system. This not being an exhaustive listing of mountain mode advantages.
Indeed, Mountain mode is the defining feature which makes cross-country driving such as the 1776 mile Freedom Drive a trouble-free zero-risk drive.
Sometime ago on this site I hypothesized a trip from SF to Reno comparing VOLT to LEAF. Certainly the Freedom Drive pretty much proved VOLT could make the SF to Reno no problem. That’s after I read about LEAF’s range numbers put out by a major pub. Before I thought VOLT would leave LEAF in Sacramento – but with these recent LEAF range numbers one could make an argument that LEAF doesn’t make even Sacramento.
In California any trip out of the Bay Area (just as any trip East or North from LA) there are EV significant inclined roadways. (Unless the Big One happens.)
Jul 6th, 2010 (11:38 am)I also was thinking that it was the engine. When I asked, the GM guy said that the engine wasn’t on. Your description of “definitely audible” is good.
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (11:40 am)GM and the EPA are trying to come up with an an average MPG figure for the Volt. With the EPA’s previous driving profiles, the Volt was getting over 230 MPG, but many people refused to accept a number that high, so the EPA went back to the drawing board.
An then there’s the issue of how you weight electricity consumption into the MPG figure, but the concept of “gallons of electricity” is somehwat hard to grasp.
In the end, I think MPG will be an irrelavent number for plug-ins. A better measure is “gallons per year” for a typical driver. People won’t argue about what this means.
This is exactly how they rate other electrical appliances. The actual yearly consumption varies dramatically depending on how the appliance is used, but the typical usage is still probably the best way way to compare models.
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (11:47 am)Too confusing. All I need to see is this…
Chevy Volt:
EV Range: Up to 40 Miles Per Full Charge
EV MPH: Up to 90mph
Hybrid Mode: 48/50 MPG
KISS.
Jul 6th, 2010 (11:48 am)But that’s not what the EPA is doing.
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (11:51 am)Tony Posawatz explained it well at a layman’s level Saturday in Gaithersburg. Remember all of the “your mileage may vary” stuff when the EPA ratings came out several decades ago? Over time, the EPA has come up with adjustment factors that convert the measurements made on test vehicles into city/highway/combined numbers that will come close to what *most* people will experience with that vehicle over the long term. The latest change to those adjustment factors a couple of years ago is why a number of unchanged cars had their mileage ratings drop from one year to the next.
Now the Volt is a whole new class of vehicle. Those adjustment factors so carefully crafted for “normal” cars don’t apply. So, GM submits lots of fuel consumption test data and then waits for the EPA to come up with the class-specific adjustment factors that will convert the test data into MPG ratings.
This is as I recall. Others attending at Criswell Chevy can fill in if I bent some detail.
Jul 6th, 2010 (11:54 am)Thanks! I appreciate the feedback!
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (11:55 am)What are they doing? Sorry, kind of ignorant on this issue.
Are they trying to mix the EV range and gas range together like a Margarita for a one number result?
Aw man, I hope not. Then the phrase “Your reading/range/MPG will vary” will have a huge range. When I say range I mean worst case scenario to best case scenario. Kind of like the LEAF said it might get 42-148 miles percharge. Then somehow the consumer needs to find where they fit in that window/range. That’s not gonna be fun. For my wife, the LEAF will have a range of 42 miles…..lol
Jul 6th, 2010 (11:55 am)You’re implying that most people will have problems without mountain mode, which I believe is inaccurate.
You have to remember that 30% of a 16kWh battery is still a lot of reserve energy. That’s like 3 times the size of a Prius battery.
I believe the Volt will handle normal mountain driving just fine without mountain mode.
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (11:56 am)Yes.
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (12:00 pm)Awesome!
-3
Jul 6th, 2010 (12:06 pm)More clearly : Voltec is going to be taken over by 2 mode in near future ( till non traditional mechanical energy based electricity generation mechanisms take over (ex: fuel cell -chemical reaction based electricity generation ) ).
-13
Jul 6th, 2010 (12:09 pm)(click to show comment)
Jul 6th, 2010 (12:11 pm)Did you see the car passing him while he was going 80?
Jul 6th, 2010 (12:20 pm)Maybe that’s 80 km/hr
Jul 6th, 2010 (12:29 pm)After reading your post I just had to watch it….lol.
I wonder if he got in trouble for doing that on video. I’d get fired doing that in our Govt vehicle…lol
Jul 6th, 2010 (12:33 pm)So far, it’s somewhere between 34mpg (someone’s low-end guess) and infinity. Yep, that’s a pretty big window!
I see no reason why I couldn’t get more than 600mpg in my normal day-to-day driving and well north of 200mpg average over a year.
With Volt, YMMV takes on a whole new meaning.
It will be very interesting to see how people opportunity charge in practice and how much charge they can get in 20-30 minutes. All we are being quoted is full charge on 110v and 240v. What about partial charges? That should be much quicker.
Jul 6th, 2010 (12:35 pm)Hi #99 Dave G.
I imply nothing. I’m simply posting basic physics. Sure Mountain mode may not seem essential within VOLT’s EV range at 0.0 incline – statistical driver range however is besides the point.
Jul 6th, 2010 (12:43 pm)I’d guess something to do with the motors working together. Along the lines that BillR has been talking about though the actual operation may be quite different than what he’s imagined. When the engineers gave the press conference during the CA test drive (end of May I think) they were obviously busting to explain more about this.
With respect to speed, Nissan has said that the Leaf’s 0-30 times are the fastest of any Nissan vehicle, including the GT-R. Since the GT-R gets to 60 MPH in maybe a bit less than 3.5 seconds, the Leaf has to be a screamer off the line. And those who have driven both the Volt and the Leaf has said they felt the Volt accelerated slightly faster.
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (12:46 pm)lol….OK, I suck, what’s that mean?
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (12:54 pm)Actually, when you run the numbers, mountain mode doesn’t look necessary. The worst uphill grade in the U.S. I know of is driving west up out of Death Valley, and even then it’s not clear whether it would be useful. See here for details:
http://gm-volt.com/2008/09/02/the-pikes-peak-question-chevy-volt-and-the-infinite-hill/
I believe adding mountain mode was more to make early adopters happy. Another button to play with. The average Joe probably won’t ever need it.
Jul 6th, 2010 (12:55 pm)In fact they are. Margaritas all around. The standard is SAE J1711. For application to PHEVs, it’s just been approved: http://www.anl.gov/Media_Center/News/2010/news100629.pdf
Keep in mind the goal here is to calculate CAFE not to tell you how much EV range you can expect.
Jul 6th, 2010 (12:56 pm)http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/YMMV
Jul 6th, 2010 (1:09 pm)Dave G got ur back already
I just dropped off of corporate and took a peek at the video. Awesome data there. It doesn’t look like they were trying for any mileage records. It also looks like pulling from 60 to 80 (passing) is no problem at all.
I think this is the first video I have seen of open road driving.
Great work Lyle!
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (1:13 pm)Aw dude, that kinda sucks if you ask me. I don’t want to see the mixed rating. I want to see the value I can get in 100% EV mode. That helps me better understand and decide which product will fit me. If my goal is to use the minimum of OPEC juice within the range of my normal driving, that mixed number aint gonna give me what I need to know. Sure the higher the MPG the more appropriate but the EV range is more precise. Of course YMMV (lol, I learned something today
)
Just give me these….
PHV PRIUS:
EV Range: Up to 13 Miles Per Full Charge
EV MPH: Up to 60mph
Hybrid Mode: 48/50 MPG
Chevy Volt:
EV Range: Up to 40 Miles Per Full Charge
EV MPH: Up to 90mph
Hybrid Mode: 48/50 MPG
KISS dangit!
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (1:13 pm)I believe whenever the ICE runs, it has to run at full load as much possible at it’s tuned sweet spot to maximize it’s efficiency. So if the generator has to go on for the A/C, I’m sure the generator is putting the excess power into the battery.
I know GM said differently, but GM wants the competition to guess at how they are doing it.
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (1:16 pm)… and the Troll issues continue to fall, one by one. The English report was a lie.
Anonymous Proxy has, at least, jumped straight to the last Troll position: “The Volt uses some oil.” Never mind that it uses several orders of magnitude less oil, or uses oil more as a matter of owner choice than has been the case with any previous vehicle, but he’s still correct on this point.
Where he (and the others) go off the rails is in their moral repugnance at the prospect of burning any oil at all. This may be a supportable position some day. It is not supportable today. Where are the BEVs on the nation’s streets? Only pre-production fleets of EVs and EREVs share the roads with NEVs, electric motorcycles and old-fashioned gas burners.
When you can do what you need a real car to do without burning any oil, perhaps you will have a leg to stand on when picking up your pitchforks (better leave the torches at home. Think of the Planet!!!). Until that day dawns, a decade or more from now, the Troll’s Last Position is merely background noise.
Long before an EV can fully replace a gas-burning car, I predict that so little gas will be used by some future EREV that only nut cases like Anon will care.
Jul 6th, 2010 (1:21 pm)This is still not EPA practice yet:
“Much of the new EPA regulation is likely to be based on SAE J1711.”
This announcement doesn’t really go into the specifics of how measurements are taken and how this differs from the method used to calculate Volt’s 230mpg before.
We’ll have to see how this plays out in the next couple of weeks. It’ll also be very interesting to see how BEV’s are treated. (It looks like J1711 is for PHEV and HEV.) It’ll probably be a different standard all together.
Anybody have a pic of Tesla’s window sticker?
Jul 6th, 2010 (1:22 pm)Glad to know of the OnStar navigation system.
Keeping the Volt “all GM” regarding processing is really important to me.
This is a really important safeguard, because opening the door to an infinite
array of potential hacking is just too much to risk in my view.
Also, having no potential to allow for all kinds of optional costs being potentially
associated with my Volt is another strong reason to disallow internet connectivity.
Great story on the highway drive.
Just that one drive on March 13th for me did confirm everything GM has said about Volt.
I’ve been describing my Volt experience to my Auto Shop Customers (207 shops now), and, they are also on their chairs’ edge when I describe Voltec to them as well.
Jul 6th, 2010 (1:26 pm)The event had THREE open bars, so the pictures weren’t the only things that could have been a bit tipsy. Actually, I was pleased that literally everyone seemed on an even keel. A lot of the families brought kids and I think that that helped. Many of us just chewed on “straight” cups of ice cubes due to the heat.
The GM photog took a shot of 4 of us Voltiacs in front of the car. I hope it gets posted somewhere.
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Let’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****NPNS
Jul 6th, 2010 (1:31 pm)Just to note that this is not really a GM – EPA discussion. There is a standard — SAE J1711 — and it will apply to all PHEVs. Besides the Volt, this would include the Fisker Karma, the Prius Plug-in, or any plug-in conversion for that matter. So the standard has wide applicability.
I think it works like this: The idea is to apply both CD and CS modes (let’s call these EV and ICE Mode) to actual drive cycles. The actual drive cycles are derived from monitoring drivers. So the data may say that 3% of the drivers will go 8 miles in a day, 6% may go 16 miles, 4% may go 60 miles, and so forth. Some of these trips will be all in EV Mode; some will be partially in EV Mode and partially in ICE Mode. When you sum all these drives you can find out how many miles are driven EV Mode and how many miles in ICE Mode. That gives you a ratio of what percent of miles will be driven in ICE mode. Apply that percentage to the MPG in ICE mode and you get an average MPG. Note this is fair when you’re comparing PHEVs because you get higher mileage the longer you stay in EV Mode and the longer distances you stay in EV Mode. (So a Volt which can go for 40 miles in EV Mode will get a better number than a plug-in Prius which uses the engine above 60 MPH and which can only go for 12 miles in EV Mode at lower speeds).
The SAE standard has been approved (like last week). EPA has not adopted this standard but usually it accepts and adopts the SAE approved standards and there isn’t any reason to think this won’t be the case with respect to J1711. I don’t think J1711 was changed since GM released the 230 MPG number but I’m hardly an expert. What may have changed is the MPG in CS Mode. That would affect it. Plus the MPG in CS Mode may be separated out.
Note that the statistical method works well for CAFE purposes since the purpose of CAFE is to estimate actual gas usage for the driving population in the aggregate.
Jul 6th, 2010 (1:32 pm)That’s what car reviews and independent testing is all about.
Once these cars hit the street, Edmonds, Road&Track, Car&Driver, Consumer’s Report, and others will have these numbers and real side-by-side testing.
And the ‘up to 40 miles per full charge’ has already been hinted that it is can be higher than that. Thus the folks that want a 60/60 club
.
Interesting times!
-15
Jul 6th, 2010 (1:33 pm)(click to show comment)
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (1:37 pm)It’s looking like 40Mpg-ish will be a closer estimate than 50Mpg, with the recent info of a 9 gal tank & “as good or slightly better” class MPG statements …
As far as an EPA rating … Since it’s so new & different, there NEEDS to be Something on the EPA sticker, to convey to the ‘average user’, that this car will cause them to buy only 25 or 40 gals of gas Per Year … Simply stating 45Mpg & 40AER won’t ‘get this’ into someone’s head…
Jul 6th, 2010 (1:38 pm)Oh well, I don’t read those….lol, too cheap to buy them.
I’ll just wait for yall to report. I be a Gen II buyer……broke Azz “Kahl-ee-forneeyah” guy.
Jul 6th, 2010 (1:40 pm)I had misgivings about the capacitive control panel of the Volt when it was first announced. Since then, CR’s introductory drive of the Volt mentions the difficulties it can cause, and even GM’s control systems engineer has less than glowing praise.
A touch-sensitive screen mimics what you can do with a smart phone, but it requires the driver to look away from the road for unacceptable lengths of time. The sound chirp isn’t going to cut it under some circumstances.
In the spirit of offering a suggestion (since GM is clearly going to go through with it), try building a tactile response into the panel. This need not mean abandoning the capacitance technology. What if the panel “clicked” or vibrated in response to a selected mode? This could be achieved by mounting tiny piezoelectric chips behind the raised buttons; on the back of the plastic panel.
A selected mode would turn off the capacitance pickup, cause the panel to ‘tick’ back with a cheap piezoelectric servo, and then turn the capacitance back on (all in less than a tenth of a second). This might also make a sound, itself, which would allow the “chirp” to be removed.
Over the Gen I production run, I feel the current panel will cause enough complaints to prompt improvements by Gen II.
This is really the only complaint I have for the Volt. I’ve driven it at low speed, seen it at highway speed, and believe for my own reasons that CS-mode mpg will be much closer to 55 than it will be to 35.
Bring it on!!!
Jul 6th, 2010 (1:43 pm)SAE J1711 is only for PHEVs. It’s designed to measure gas usage when a vehicle runs in EV Mode or ICE Mode. BEV always use EV Mode and for practical purposes HEVs always run in ICE Mode.
Jul 6th, 2010 (1:54 pm)Edmonds.com is free and so is this site. Others get reported (quoted) in regular news stories all the time (also free).
The Internet is a wonderful resource.
Jul 6th, 2010 (2:09 pm)On the way in to work this morning, I passed a “Green Taxi” (a Prius). That was the name of the taxi company, presumably. Also presumably, after November they will have a few Volts on order if they really want to stay green.
Actually that is a really decent use for Nissan Leaf’s. And, correct me if I’m wrong, wasn’t the Leaf supposed to be able to be configured for battery swapping as a charging strategy? I thought that there was a deal between Nissan and a third party (project Better Place?) who would supply “filling stations” that would just swap batteries for owners. That would make it somewhat user friendly for Taxi companies.
Link to the cab company is http://www.migreencabs.com/
Jul 6th, 2010 (2:10 pm)Right, but since the Volt is one of the first plug-ins to hit the market, my impression was that GM helped shape SAE J1711. But maybe I’m off on that.
And the charge depleating (CD) mode may have the ICE come on occaisionally on some plug-in models, so it really boils down to 2 imput MPG figures, one for CS and one for CD. For the Volt, the MPG figure for CD would be very high, possibly near infinity. For a Prius, it’s m=probably more like 150 MPG during CD, and then 50 MPG after that.
This sounds similar to the informal calculation method I’ve used for the last couple of years, which assumes a typical driving pattern of:
• 30 days at 8 miles per day
• 50 days at 16 miles per day
• 240 days at 30 miles per day
• 30 days at 60 miles per day
• 3 days at 450 miles per day
11,390 total miles per year
More info here:
http://mysite.verizon.net/vzenu6hr/ebay_pictures/GallonsPerYear.xls
Does anyone have more information on what’s in the approved final SAE J1711 version?
If so, then maybe I can plug that into a spread sheet and use the official calculation method.
Jul 6th, 2010 (2:11 pm)But after they do that, don’t they use a Dyno to do the actual test cycles?
I’ve been trying (off and on) to find out how the actual EPA sticker is produced. It seems to involve some back-and-forth with the manufacturer as well (thus the ‘negotiation’ statement by the GM guy).
Since this directly affects their CAFE rating, I would think that the manufacturer would be very hands-on in the testing and certification process.
I also read somewhere (don’t know where now) that the manufacturer supplies the dyno/testing data to the EPA. The EPA doesn’t actually do the test. Is this right?
Anybody have any direct contact with EPA as a car manufacturer? How does it work in the real world?
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (2:12 pm)
Jul 6th, 2010 (2:24 pm)Some PHEVs don’t have an EV mode.
For example, with the plug-in Prius the gas engine still turns on when you go over 62 miles per hour, or when you accelerate hard. In this case, the charge depletion mode has an MPG figure. For example, 150 MPG during charge depletion and 50 MPG after that.
Jul 6th, 2010 (2:31 pm)Lyle used this as the graphic for one of his articles a year or two ago. I don’t have the link handy, but you can probably find it using the gm-volt.com search feature.
Jul 6th, 2010 (2:32 pm)This link:
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2010/07/j1711-20100706.html
Seems to be complete.
Jul 6th, 2010 (2:32 pm)As an Iphone owner I think this video is very funny. I can only hope that the Volt can achieve the same success as the Volt. If it’s owners are trendies I’ll take that as a good thing.
-1
Jul 6th, 2010 (2:43 pm)Agreed, even the LEAF’s worst/best case has been announced with media test drives (47 to 138 miles range) but sooo hush hush on the Volt. Why is that? Just do the math and put the rumors to rest. It wouldn’t really matter since lead foots will get bad mileage & hyper-milers will get better mileage.
And why was the engine running while the car was stopped? Does that mean in hot/cold weather the engine will always be running to address the extra power the car will use for heat & A/C? In that case, what’s the point of the battery other than a buffer or the approx. 40 mile range will really suffer in hot/cold climates. As to how low, we’ll have to wait and hear the findings…
Nice LCD screens & quiet ride, although!
GO EV!!!!
Jul 6th, 2010 (2:56 pm)AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!
OMG, that was friggin hilarious! I had to forward that link to the iPhone group.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaaa………man I have to go pee now……
/made my day
Jul 6th, 2010 (3:07 pm)OK. Made me look.
-6
Jul 6th, 2010 (3:09 pm)Wake up, wake up, your dreaming, LOL !!
Ah, you’re just lucky to be able to continue to burn gas.
Us EV drivers don’t have that ability (or curse, problem, etc….)
GO EV!!!
+5
Jul 6th, 2010 (3:20 pm)This purist attitude is really starting to bother me.
The fact is that EV owners will burn gas, since they will use their other car for longer trips.
We live in a real world. Stop fooling yourself.
-11
Jul 6th, 2010 (3:30 pm)(click to show comment)
-12
Jul 6th, 2010 (3:46 pm)(click to show comment)
+8
Jul 6th, 2010 (3:46 pm)@ AnounymousProxy
Wow. Really? Have you nothing better to do than to make derogatory comments- against other people and their passions- on a Volt fansite? Is this how you get your kicks? Honestly, it’s quite pathetic, and it needs to stop now. This is a civilized forum dedicated to constructive, intellectual conversation, the sharing of ideas, and the communication of news so that all may be up to date on the car that is going to change our nation. Be thankful that you have access to the wealth of knowledge that Lyle works hard to provide us with everyday; don’t vandalize the sanctity of this website with your belligerant comments.
Please, go away troll.
NPNS!
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (4:02 pm)Lol. Not a darn thing has been delivered yet. It’s ‘not yet’ as opposed to ‘under’.
Not a darn thing has been promised yet either. These are all ‘forward looking statements’.
As soon as you have a confirmed ship date for your Volt purchase, then you can start talking about promises and deliveries.
I, however, doubt that Anon is a Volt person.
+2
Jul 6th, 2010 (4:09 pm)Dude, go away. This statement is just ridiculous. It is obvious that a Volt is not going to be a large enough vehicle for a family of 5. sheesh.
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (4:10 pm)Kyle, you must be new here. Everything you said is true, but AP has been doing this for a long time, and there is one thing the regulars here have all learned, they don’t go away by merely saying, go away troll. Nice try. PDNFTT
+2
Jul 6th, 2010 (4:16 pm)The Dyno numbers should be very relevant. My understanding is that SAE J1711 uses the MPG in ICE Mode for both the standard City and Highway Cycles. After calculating the number of average ICE miles driven per day, it applies the MPG number derived from the Dyno tests to those miles, apportioning them along the standard split — 55% / 45% or something like that.
FWIW I think the EPA tests a fairly small number of vehicles. It generally relies on the manufacturer to provide them with the numbers and just spot checks.
While most people think J1711 overestimates the MPG of a PHEV I think it underestimates MPG. J1711 assumes there won’t be any opportunity charging. It also assumes that someone driving 150 miles a day is likely to use a PHEV — my guess is they’ll use some other car, making the average miles a day driven by a PHEV lower than what you’d see for the average car.
+6
Jul 6th, 2010 (4:22 pm)Kyle: Is this how you get your kicks? Honestly, it’s quite pathetic, and it needs to stop now. . . . Please, go away troll.
Michael: Kyle, you must be new here. Everything you said is true, but AP has been doing this for a long time, and there is one thing the regulars here have all learned, they don’t go away by merely saying, go away troll. Nice try. PDNFTT
Someone needs to invent “Troll-B-Gone”, the “Troll No Pest Strip”, or the “Black Flag Troll Motel”.
Trolls check in but they don’t check out.
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (4:39 pm)That’s only a problem because EV Mode is a term I made up when trying to distinguish the modes. The standard relies more on what you’d call Charge Depleting and Charge Sustaining. So long as the battery isn’t depleting that’s one mode. After it’s depleted there’s a second mode.
For example, the Prius plug-in and the Volt would start with a full battery. The cars are run through the cycles until the battery is depleted. For the Volt the MPG would be infinite over 40 miles. For the Prius it might be 100 MPG over 20 miles. Then the test is restarted with the batteries depleted and the MPG is calculated again. In this mode the Volt might get 40 MPG and the Prius 50 MPG. If the average number of miles per day is 50, then the Prius would end using .2 gallons of gas when depleting the battery over the first twenty miles (20 miles / 100 miles per gallon) and .6 gallons after depleting the battery (30 miles / 50 miles per gallon). Adding these up the Prius would use .8 gallons over 50 miles giving 62.5 MPG. The Volt would use no gas for the first 40 miles and then .25 gallons over the last ten miles (10 / 40 miles per gallon), giving 200 MPG.
And yes, this is more or less what you’ve been doing with your spreadsheet.
The standard seems fair because it mirrors reality in that it rewards a longer EV range and higher MPG in CS Mode over the number of miles you’d expect to travel in a day.
+3
Jul 6th, 2010 (4:39 pm)#137 Future Leaf Driver:
Thanks for seeing my point.
If you want a Leaf, more power to you. (Especially the electical kind.)
One more ICE-only car off the road.
Although I am only an occasional contributer here, I would like to think everyone knows me as VERY PRO VOLT. I think Voltec is the best possible solution for many of our country’s problems and I am extraordinarily proud of GM for building what I believe is the most technologically advanced car in the world.
I just don’t understand why they won’t let us know the mileage obtained on this particular trip. Are they prohibited from making such statements by the EPA? Maybe its a government thing.
Nevertheless, GM you did good! Congratulations on a great weekend road trip. I am sure I speak for thousands here in saying you have our admiration and support!
GO VOLT!
-11
Jul 6th, 2010 (4:56 pm)(click to show comment)
+3
Jul 6th, 2010 (5:01 pm)I know I shouldn’t feed the trolls, but this one just doesn’t seem to understand.
You’re crazy. The Volt is not appropriate for a family because it doesn’t have the interior space of an RV? You criticize anything you can think of while not acknowledging that any EV out there also isn’t up to the unrealistic task you’re complaining about. I’ve taken my 4 person family from Wisconsin to Arkansas multiple times in our 4 seat Pontiac G6. It wasn’t a luxury ride with the luggage, but we did it. Exactly what EV would allow me to make this trip? And in more comfort?
I have a 90 mile round trip commute in a cold climate state (where summer also gets pretty toasty sometimes). A Leaf doesn’t have adequate range for me if I want climate control or to go to my daughter’s soccer game after work. I DON’T HAVE THE OPTION OF BURNING NO OIL. If I can cut my oil consumption by 60% or something like that (just guessing a number) is that so wrong? I don’t understand your problem–for many people, current and forthcoming EV’s ARE NOT YET GOOD ENOUGH! Aside from that, I want to support AMERICAN workers and will avoid purchasing an import unless the benefits are really huge. So far, they’re not.
I would love to use no oil, but at this point my options are use some oil or walk. The Volt will allow me to greatly reduce the oil I use.
I suppose if you had some kind of cancer, and the treatment had a 70% chance of working, you’d decline it because it wasn’t 100%. “No, doctor, that treatment isn’t good enough for me. Keep it.”
-2
Jul 6th, 2010 (5:01 pm)#141 – Dave (the man with the figures)
Look Dave, if that’s your way of approving of the idea of still burning gas, then so be it. You “fortunately” are not the representation of every person in the city/state/country/world. If you were, it would be obvious by the +500 voting number next to your name. If EV owners only have one car and can make it work for them, that’s their decision.
Please change “Stop fooling yourself” to “We live in a real world. Make your own decisions”. Otherwise, you look ignorant (blinders ON) to the people that have been driving EVs (Tom-BMW MiniE & others) as their daily driver and those that will be driving EVs long range in the future.
I-5 Electrification Plans
http://wsdot.wa.gov/Partners/GreenHighways/electric_highways.htm
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Partners/GreenHighways/default.htm
GO EV!!!
Jul 6th, 2010 (5:03 pm)Substitute BEV for EV in my post as that was the intended acronym.
-2
Jul 6th, 2010 (5:09 pm)Don’t think so. Remember the 230MPG? Did the EPA give the ok to advertise it? Most likely not.
+2
Jul 6th, 2010 (5:15 pm)Also, I’m not a BEV hater. They’re great for people who’s lives fit them. I applaud any EV usage, they just aren’t capable enough for everyones usage. Show me a BEV that’ll get 150-200 miles in the heat of summer or cold of winter and still be able to do it in 10 years, and I’ll buy one. In that case, renting a car for trips would be a decent option as I’d only have to do it occasionally.
It just seems to me that your criticisms (and I’m still referring to AP) are unrealistic. Why not criticize a future Leaf owner if the electricity that they use to charge their cars isn’t 100% solar/wind/hydro? Or, should they be criticized if Nissan uses any oil in the production of the car?
+2
Jul 6th, 2010 (5:26 pm)@ Michael
I’m new to the posting of this blog, but actually I’ve been visiting this website daily for the past two years or so. I don’t have a problem with people who take an unpopular stance or play devil’s advocate ( statik); actually, I very much appreciate the different point of view (afterall, if there wasn’t any actual discussion I wouldn’t visit this website all the time
) It just seems obvious to me that this AP guy (of whom I have observed trolling for as far as I can remember) seems like he’s intentionally posting inflammatory comments to upset others, and I wouldn’t have a problem with his dissenting opinion if he did not do this.
You’re right though: trolls don’t go away when you say please. Thanks for the tips though
. Sorry if I came off as a little too strong as to sound like, well, AP lol.
NPNS!
-3
Jul 6th, 2010 (5:34 pm)My appologies as I failed to convey the parallelism of the Volt to a BEV in size seperate from EV and Range.
A BEV, 4 seater, under my scenario above on a 4 day trip, will have the same person and luggage capacity limitation as the Volt and therefore will require you to use the “other” car or rent a bigger one.
Same thing for the Volt. No advantage for the Volt, yet still has the internal combustion engine “for range”. And what is the purpose of the internal combustion engine for the Volt? To be able to keep driving and for long distance and can be the “only” family car.
Size wise under those curcumstances, and there are millions that have 4 in the family as well as 4 friends that want to travel together, the resulting outcome is the same. You have use the “other” car. That’s one of the argument someone else seems to keep posting as a falacy. That a BEV owner will use more gas than the Volt owner if they drove the Volt. So there’s the scenario where the Volt owner will do the same as well. Burn more gas. Seems to also fail as “a car for the masses”. There are many more scenarios that play out to the same result. You want to go Skiing with the family/friends? Drive the family to grandma’s house for the holidays? etc….
The very thing that a BEV owner will not have is the “convenience” to keep burning gas and simply “charge later”. The Volt owner will simply keep burning oil and drive on and on and on and etc…..and claim no range anxiety…. So who really will be burning more gas?
One person posted a comment, and i’ll have to para/re-phrase as english is apparently a second language “A BEV requires a disciplined owner/driver, a Volt does not”. Not drmatically and as terse as the original poster but I think that’s appropriate.
Range Anxiety = Dependence on foreign oil = “EoDEV” (Extended oil Dependence Electric Vehicle) = Volt
-1
Jul 6th, 2010 (5:52 pm)When I make comparisons, I make comparisons of equal quntification to both sides. If the Volt does not “Shine” for the Rosie glass wearing Volt fans, then i’m a troll? Sure I may be terse at times but that’s just human nature as many here are as well. Have you yourself bothered to “read” what many compare here? The most popular is the Volt vs. LEAF and Volt vs. Prius.
Volt vs. Leaf is the worst. Keep in mind eliminating or reducing oil is the goal here.
Volt fans blast the Leaf with common comparison statements like “after 100 miles I’ll just drive by the Leaf driver on the side of the road…”. Essentially what they are comparing is the range of the Volt with the ability to continue to burn gas, the very thing they say they hate and want to eliminate. The LEAF uses 100% electric. Why tout the gas range in comparison to EV range? You might as well compare a normal gas burner to the Leaf because that is what they are claiming as the best attribute of the Volt. Doesn’t make sense does it. When comparing properly the true/real EV range of both, the Leaf will drive by the Volt owner.
Many other simple falacies are oftem posted to disparage a BEV. Many other falacies, the most recent “freedom Drive” claims freedom from foreign oil. Truth to the drive is, they drove 160 miles in battery and the rest of the 1616 miles was on GAS. 9% on battery…lol
Many times it’s the truth that when spelled out is what constitutes as “Troll”.
TRUTH
Range Anxiety = Dependence on foreign oil = “EoDEV” (Extended oil Dependence Electric Vehicle) = Volt
Jul 6th, 2010 (5:55 pm)#79
Cool. +1
Jul 6th, 2010 (5:57 pm)Great report Lyle. I’m really glad that you have access to this stuff.
Sorry to drop out on you guys. Major family issues the last few days. Hopefully, I’ll be able to get back into it a little now.
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (6:02 pm)Agreed! & Your welcome, Mike #151! Thanks for the power comment! – “If you want a Leaf, more power to you. (Especially the electrical kind.)” Solar Baby!
The Leaf, nor Model S, EV Focus, Mini-E, VW e, etc are NOT for everyone, only for those who drive less than 100 miles/day. Otherwise, EREV like the Volt, do help to use less than you would with a regular car. Once the Volt is on the road and we know its true figures, hopefully everyone will be happy then!
Just like #153 loyalsubject said = “I have a 90 mile round trip commute in a cold climate state (where summer also gets pretty toasty sometimes). A Leaf doesn’t have adequate range for me if I want climate control or to go to my daughter’s soccer game after work. I DON’T HAVE THE OPTION OF BURNING NO OIL. If I can cut my oil consumption by 60% or something like that (just guessing a number) is that so wrong?
LS, I’d wish that your comment of “cutting consumption of oil” was the main thrust of this site, not the “end of oil dependency” comment because that’s what begins out all the negativity on this site. At least then there might be a lot more happier people here.
GO EV!!!
+5
Jul 6th, 2010 (6:09 pm)In your case the the Leaf is not the car for you. The Volt will be more adequate. Like I said previously, It’s the ones that make one sided comparisons technically and “useability” that have issues.
-2
Jul 6th, 2010 (6:12 pm)lol….
Don’t forget “National Energy Security”.
+2
Jul 6th, 2010 (6:20 pm)Dr Tag, may I lay on your couch? I am addicted to oil…
I once had an addiction to nicotine, smoked a pack a day. I decided that I should give it up. My plan was to reduce the amount of cigarettes I smoked every day by one a week. The first few weeks were easy. I would not miss one cigarette a day. It all went well until about three ore four cigarettes a day. That after coffee or meal cigarette was hard to break. Then one day I crumpled up the pack (It was half full) and tossed it out.
I have been doing the same thing with my cars, every replacement has better mileage than the one before. It is my way with dealing with my angst on the usage of petroleum. Sometimes my new car would only get a couple of miles to gallon better than the old, but I believed in incriminatialism. It was an improvement. With the Volt I would consider that I had tossed the package of cigarettes out. However I may enjoy the occasional cigar.
+2
Jul 6th, 2010 (6:26 pm)Good point. In 2007, the US net imported 4.4 Billion barrels of oil and U.S. retailers sold 20.7 Billion gallons of gasoline, which roughly equates to 1.1 Billion barrels of oil (25% of all net imported oil). If every gasoline customer in the United States drove an E-REV with a 40-mile electric range, then 78% of the demand for passenger car gasoline would be eliminated according to the BTS survey. That equals 827 Million barrels of oil, or 19% of all net imported oil for the year.
Furthermore, an additional 12% of daily commuters in the BTS survey drive between 40 and 60 miles per day. If they too drove an E-REV with performance like the Volt, their equivalent gas mileage would be 150 MPG or greater. That is more than 7 times the 2007 average passenger car fuel consumption of 22.5 MPG. Thus, the next 12% of American drivers who consumed approximately 127 Million barrels of oil in 2007 would consume less than 18 Million barrels of oil. That avoids another 109 Million barrels of oil, and is equal to another 3% reduction in net imported oil. Ignoring the remaining 10% of American commuters who drive more than 60 miles per day, the first 90% have the potential to eliminate more than 22% of imported oil simply by driving an E-REV with a 40-mile electric range.
The point of the above example is to underscore that the coming EVs and E-REVs have significant potential to drastically impact demand for imported petroleum. In 2008, Americans drove 5.6% less than in 2007 according to the U.S. Department of Energy and demand was forecast to remain flat due to the global economic downturn. Consequently, Brent crude dropped from an average weekly high of $143.95/barrel on 3 July 2008 to $33.73/barrel on 26 Dec 2008. That equaled a 77% reduction in price in 6 months, driven primarily by a forecast 5.6% reduction in US consumption for petroleum.
So riddle me this, will EVs and E-REVs cause a market crash in the price of oil, and would cheap oil serve to make us more dependent or less dependant? Stay tuned…
Jul 6th, 2010 (6:29 pm)Please come back soon — I enjoy reading your posts. They are realistic and a good antidote to the boosterism that gets people carried away on some days. To me reading the comments is much more interesting when there are a variety of perspectives, and you make some good points. As to the -1 posters, some days people go off track
Jul 6th, 2010 (6:32 pm)It “only” means that the Volt is using some version of the 2-mode transmission.
Jul 6th, 2010 (6:37 pm)Seems like oil will be the fuel of choice for a power company to use to start up all of those backup generators to meet the demand for those quick charge stations that increase peak electricity demand.
Money and reliability. EV and EREV.
Seems like a win win either way. (at least until renewable energy becomes cheap and reliable, relatively speaking.)
-3
Jul 6th, 2010 (6:38 pm)Don’t forget when a few of these posters, when comparing “Affordability”, decided to disregard a state rebate for BEV’s and compared the after rebate price of a Volt and a LEAF.
Also those damn “Promisses”. GM and Lutz has always stated 50mpg and now the Voltards are saying that wasn’t a promise. Maybe they just like to be strung along like addicted crackheads for the foreign oil and turn a blind eye to the truth. Getting pimped out by the Arab Sheiks!
lol, you beat me to it. I wouldn’t have been so damn nice. I’m the asshole Troll. AssTroll?
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (6:52 pm)The conundrum. In addition as the price drops, there is less motivation to find alternatives. But realistically, how fast can we replace the current fleet of our automobiles? We are talking a really big ^%$# change here.
How long did it take to replace the horse?
How long did it take to go to fuel injection?
How long did it take the industry to go to front wheel drive?
I like the front wheel drive analogy because I think the complexity of going from rear wheel drive to front wheel drive would be similar to the change of going to a modified *Two-Mode* transmission. Using the above examples we could guess from 20 to 50 years. Now if the government were to provide additional motivation, as they are seeming to do. The process of change could speed up.
Good post Rooster, I liked it.
-3
Jul 6th, 2010 (6:58 pm)“Expectations are that fuel economy will be somewhat above that of the best-in-class standard gas compact car.”
This is hilarious! A PHEV and they want to compare the MPG to a regular internal combustion engine. What CRAP! They won’t even compare it to a current “Hybrid”.
Civic Hybrid:
http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-hybrid/specifications.aspx?group=epa
40 / 45 / 42
Honda Insight:
http://automobiles.honda.com/insight-hybrid/specifications.aspx?group=epa
40/43/41
2010 Prius:
http://www.toyota.com/prius-hybrid/specs.html
51/48/50
Why not compare the Volt to a current Hybrid?
Oh yeah, it CAN’T compare!
See, stupid comparisons like AP say’s.
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (7:24 pm)Come back after you have, as James might say, RECHARGED! I need help with this mass thinge ….
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (8:04 pm)Amazing. Absolutely stunning car. Lyle, I hope you run for Congress. Someone who actually cares about our country and future of this nation. Thanks for all you’ve done to put one of these in many American homes someday very soon now.
Good year to run as an independent.
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (8:10 pm)Ok, Mr. Crotch,
I actually (boy, I hate to say this…) AGREE with most of this post.
Not being able to go toe-to-toe with a Prius really shines a bad light on the Volt. But, as others will argue the Volt excels in the “sweet spot”, and that is for the people who drive in bursts of 40 miles or less, for most occasions.
I had to dig deep into my dresser drawer to find that pair of asbestos undies…let the flaming begin!
Jul 6th, 2010 (8:13 pm)PS: I estimated combined mpg numbers of around 38 mpg about a year or so ago. I could search for the post, but laziness comes to mind. So, this is not a real shock if they come in about 35-38 mpg.
-2
Jul 6th, 2010 (8:29 pm)Why won’t the banks provide GM the line-of-credit it needs?
http://www.autospies.com/news/Well-Duh-GM-Seeks-Revolving-Credit-Line-And-Finds-No-Takers-55694/
Jul 6th, 2010 (8:42 pm)It’s a forward looking statement not actual EPA numbers. Nobody seems to understand that we are talking about GM’s IP (intellectual property) here.
Who here (besides Mr. Crotch and AP) believes that Volt won’t exceed Prius’ numbers? The whole point of the exercise (building the Volt) was for it to be a Prius killer.
Let’s all go back to the gas mileage website when *all* 2011 models are posted and see who sits where.
I think we will be very surprised in some places and maybe slightly disappointed in others. (Just like any other car every built.) Overall, I would buy a Volt unseen at this point.
If GM somehow went off into the weeds on this one, then, we will all be wearing not only flame-proof, but, bullet-proof clothing. I don’t see that happening.
Jul 6th, 2010 (8:56 pm)Got some of the pics/videos posted at:
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v95/Tagamet/Freedom_VOLT/
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (8:57 pm)Loboc,
But if you look at what the Volt is and what the Prius is, you see that it would be nearly impossible for the Volt to match the Prius in mpg, when compared strictly to CS mode. The Volt is heavier and lugging around this extra weight just has to negatively impact mpg. Yes, you may be able to recover a slightly higher percentage via regen (larger Volt battery will be able to accept larger regen peaks and capacity), but you only get a small percent (~30% on average) recovered.
But, the Volt does shine in the EV mode, and that is what GM is really targeting (continue the mantra of drivers driving on average, less then 40 mi/day). I am sorry to say it appears your going to be sorely disappointed if you expect the Volt to reach anything near 50+mpg (I will eat my Asbestos undies if I am wrong..).
As it has been said again, and again, and again. The Volt has a specific target market, as does the Leaf, Prius, and any other auto. It should do well in its targeted market.
+2
Jul 6th, 2010 (9:04 pm)IF. AND THIS IS A BIG IF, GM has found that the Volt can attain high mpg (>50 mpg) by using a generator (average power) and a battery (for peak power), then why do they not build a economy car that uses a small battery and ICE/generator, with the need for the ICE to ALWAYS run, but allow me to get that phenomenal mileage.
I suspect it cannot. I suspect that all the electrical, mechanical, and chemical losses that are involved negate all the positives gained by using efficient electrical motors, to drive the car.
This is why I am most interested in what GM reports for mileage on the Volt.
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (9:05 pm)You definitely had a better view and better fireworks than I did. And that’s before we get to the car. Thanks for sharing.
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (9:12 pm)Do you want to use ketchup on those??
Be well and hungry,
Tagamet
-2
Jul 6th, 2010 (9:25 pm)I’ll sort of raise my hand.
I think the Volt will beat the snot out of the Prius city mileage. On the highway the Prius may just edge out the Volt, but I think they’ll be close.
-3
Jul 6th, 2010 (9:30 pm)Geee, do you think it is because of what happened last time?
GM needed some operating cash. No one would loan unless the creditors were placed at the top of the list for repayment above all other creditors.
When the gubment took over GM, the top tier creditors were told FU and only given 20% while the union pensions got 50%. As a certain preacher would say “the chickens have come home to roost.”
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (9:36 pm)I’m not sure we know exactly what the mountain mode parameters are. Sounds like it’s basically a higher charge sustain set point. Once mountain mode is turned off, the car goes back to EV mode until battery is discharged to the normal charge sustain set point. I don’t think the actual numbers have been revealed.
Does that make sense to anyone else?
Jul 6th, 2010 (9:41 pm)Ok, Tag. Do you have an “inside” scoop on the mpg numbers?
I am not sure why everyone thinks mpg will be phenomenal. Now, I do not understand how the EPA will calculate mpg, but I am JUST talking pure CS mode numbers.
I hope I eat my words (or undies…), but I would be very, very surprised if the Volt could achieve Prius like numbers, especially on hwy mpg, since regen will not be a major factor.
+1
Jul 6th, 2010 (9:46 pm)Matthew,
Do you really think that the Volt can exceed Prius’ city mpg? While I can understand some advantages the Volt would have in city driving, the fact is that Prius has the weight advantage and also the Prius is tuned specifically for this situation. The Volt shines in BEV mode, but I think it will have a difficult time even meeting the Prius city mpg.
Just all speculation, and I could be all wet. I guess we should know in a short order of time.
“Is it to early, to take a wait-and-see attitude?”
Jul 6th, 2010 (10:00 pm)Nice pictures, Tag, thanks for sharing.
-Michael
-7
Jul 6th, 2010 (10:04 pm)There was ample time to prepare. Plenty of warning was provided that this was coming. Fallout happen anyway. Lots of damage control is now needed to deal with all the spin.
Ready for the next?
Choosing to be proactive makes it a whole lot easier. Publicity can take an ugly turn quick if expectations aren’t met. Here’s what should be done to prepare: Ask yourself what are you going to do when the EPA estimates are released.
How are you going to react to seeing a particular MPG value?
Will you have scenarios to illustrate what the MPG represents?
What will you say to those concerned about the overall cost?
-7
Jul 6th, 2010 (10:07 pm)Please provide MPG values.
Jul 6th, 2010 (10:25 pm)If I put some qualifiers on it.
In the Volt vs. the Prius without the EV mode switch I think the Volt wins. The Volt, with a much larger battery bank can let the engine sit for quite a bit longer, so it will go for more time with the engine off.
Jul 6th, 2010 (10:32 pm)Nope, no inside track info on mpg, but I’ve consistently said 50 in CS mode. Although absolutely nothing was divulged by the GM staff (though they were very pleasant not saying anything), the wisdom of *not* divulging anything seemed pretty apparent. No one needed to go to NYC to figure that out.
You might want to cut back on snacks for the next few months. I hear that asbestos goes right to your hips. (g).
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Jul 6th, 2010 (10:36 pm)Never a problem. All of the folders are “open”, so feel free to browse and d/l what you like. I love to take photos of posies too.
Be well,
Tagamet
Jul 6th, 2010 (10:41 pm)Ditto! Lots of news on the horizon, so don’t be a stranger too long!
Be well,
Tagamet
Jul 6th, 2010 (11:21 pm)Sorry to hear about the rough stretch of road and I hope that things smooth out for you and yours.
Be well and believe,
Tagamet
Jul 6th, 2010 (11:44 pm)This sounds correct to me. I don’t think what the charge point has been disclosed. All we have is SWAG.
+2
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:03 am)I’m not some GM insider, I’m just an EV fan. The tone of your question makes it sound like you think I am a GM insider.
I excited about the Volt, and I’m excited about the LEAF. I hope they both do well. That’s why I’m here.
I don’t know why you’re here. I find you annoying. I’ll give you the one notice that I’m just going to ignore you from now on.
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:05 am)Welcome back and hope things are working out.
Jul 7th, 2010 (12:15 am)I just took the time to look through your pictures Tagamet. Thanks for posting them.
Are you the one in the driver’s seat in a couple of the photos? You’ve got a smile, but I imagine when you’re driving your own car of the lot all we’ll be able to see is a giant grin.
Jul 7th, 2010 (2:08 am)Plug it in every night. 14,600 gas free miles a year. I don’t even drive that much.
Jul 7th, 2010 (2:11 am)I love the VOlt, but i’ve had too much to drink, im’ getting a headache. One more beer should be ok.
Jul 7th, 2010 (4:59 am)Thanks for the photos. The Volt is nearly complete and looking good. Andrew is right. The Volt looks good in black. The Euro hood compliments the rear quarter for a balanced look.
=D-Volt
Jul 7th, 2010 (5:50 am)Perhaps because of your second (perhaps unintended) answer to the question:
In other words, they might (or might not) be able to match today’s Prius in “hybrid” mode but the AE mileage at the front of each trip will always make the total mileage higher than the hybrid mileage. Why should they stop at about-as-good when they had a perfect way to be better?
Six months ago I started out in the 40 MPG CS mode camp, but I guess I drank the kool aid, and I began to believe GM’s comments about 50 MPG. It didn’t seem “nearly impossible” as you alleged in #181. There really can be a lot of difference in the efficiency of an ICE if it can always run at optimal speed and load. Maybe that difference can overwhelm the inherent losses.
I suspect the GM engineers believed it could. I also suspect that now they have given up on their dream, at least for the first release, and are deeply disappointed that they couldn’t quite reach it.
So now I’m willing to go back to my original position, and accept 40 MPG in CS mode, knowing that my true overall mileage will be much higher than that.
There is, however, a huge possible corollary that goes with this grudging admission. The Volt was never intended to be our only car. The plan was that I would get rid of my old non-hybrid Civic, and my wife would keep her Prius. I expected we would use the new Volt for our occasional longer trips together. Now I’m thinking that perhaps we should take the Prius on those trips. Not so huge, you say? Well, you see, if I’m using the Volt mostly for short trips, then perhaps … no, I won’t say it.
Jul 7th, 2010 (6:02 am)You, and some others seem to forget that the Volt is NEW. Arguments on why it is not cheaper and the technology used on multiple models with variants all have the same answer. It takes time. GM has already stated that they plan to market future versions of the Volt with smaller battery packs to reduce cost. GM needs a proven track record of reliability on all the new components, including electric A/C, power steering and power brakes before they start committing this to more models.
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:10 am)Sorry to hear that, Noel. Hopefully the family issues are resolved and life is better in general. Afterall, we are family and we have issues, but it is going to get better.
-1
Jul 7th, 2010 (7:46 am)The tone of your post was cheerleading. Vague claims like that (“beat the snot out of”) have proven to disappoint to casual reader, since it doesn’t actually quantify anything. People clearly want more and supporters have been unwilling to do anything constructive.
I certainly tried to preset the information which would help those here better prepare, with a tone intended to drown out the cheering. Obviously, that’s not wanted.
Good luck. You’ll need it.
Jul 7th, 2010 (8:21 am)Newbie misconceptions can be quite a surprise. It’s amazing what those outside of a well informed group like this will come up with. The assumptions they’ll make based on vague comments will stir a variety of emotion and confusion.
Again, good luck dealing with that.
Jul 7th, 2010 (10:05 am)Great video. Its a good thing to see what its like to be inside of one of these in real life. I actually got to see the pre-production version of these last summer in Detroit but did not get to get that close to the interior. From what I can see in the video the fit and finish appears to be excellent. That and highly original. I’ve always driven small, diminutive, bare-bones basic cars except for the 2002 Prius we inherited 2 years ago. Thus I never spend much on cars. But this car has me excited. If its truly going to be 30k or less, you might as well sign me up.