GM first announced in late 2007 that the Volt would reach production in November 2010. Considering all the company and country has been through since that time, the fact that they are right on track is truly remarkable. Of course, a big advantage the Volt has is that it’s being produced by a 100-year old auto manufacturer with unparalleled experience, expertise, and facilities.
Although there are several other potentially important electric cars in the pipeline, the fact that they are planned by only fledgling automakers dims their prospects somewhat.
Two cases in point are the Tesla Model S and the Fisker Karma. Both vehicles are rather high profile and have attracted funding from the US government. Tesla has been awarded $465 million in low cost loans, and Fisker $528 million, all for the purpose of bringing these vehicles and other future low cost models to production.
CEO and founder Henrik Fisker, when first introducing the extended range electric Karma luxury sports car, said it would be in production by December 2009. That day of course came and went, and the goal post was moved to May 2010. Since May is about to end without any deliveries or even any press test drives for that matter, a new date was set yet again. Key Fisker investor Kleiner Perkins’ managing partner Ray Lane announced just last week that the car would go into production in February 2011. He did say some 70 to 100 pre-production models would be built by the end of this year and would be used for testing. “Some of them will be given to customers for testing purposes as well, out in the real road,” added Lane. Fisker also intended to build a lower cost higher volume Nina afterwards.
Tesla’s story isn’t looking a whole lot better either. CEO Elon Musk has poured all of his life savings, once worth over a billion dollars, into Tesla Motors as well as his money-losing private rocket company SpaceX. Tesla alone has burned though $236 million since its founding, just to produce and sell the mere 1000 Roadsters it has so far. This bleeding led Musk to recently report “about four months ago, I ran out of money,” which he said in a court filing for his divorce case.
Tesla recently announced it will purchase the old GM-Toyota NUMMI plant in California from Toyota for $42 million, and that Toyota will act as a partner to help Tesla build the model S, and two future low cost cars. This plant is capable of producing 500,000 cars per year, a volume Tesla hopes to achieve with its post-Model S low cost car, but there are certainly no guarantees. If Tesla cannot issue its IPO before the end of 2010, Toyota is not obligated to invest the $50 million in the company it said it would.
Musk initially claimed that the upcoming Model S sedan would be available for delivery in the 3rd quarter of 2011. The company has already moved that date to 2012, but as it writes in its recently revised S1 filing, accounting for the Toyota deal, “because we have only recently selected this facility and have not begun to implement our manufacturing plans and because we have not yet closed the purchase of the Fremont facility, we may experience unexpected delays in completing the build out of this facility for the production of our planned Model S.”
Furthermore, for the Model S to arrive on schedule, Tesla has only 18 months to design and engineer the car, retool the plant, train the workers, and get the car certified and tested by the federal government. A tall order indeed.
Though it is a great thing to see entrepreneurial drive and a new wave of electric car companies, let us be grateful it is GM is using its vast resources and know-how to get a super high quality Volt out right on schedule. Though there won’t be a whole lot of Volts to be had at first, at least its timely arrival and quality is something we can count on.
This entry was posted on Sunday, May 30th, 2010 at 7:39 am and is filed under Competitors, Financial. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
+18
May 30th, 2010 (8:00 am)Lyle, dude, it’s a holiday. Go throw some steaks on the grill!
Tesla S is supposed to be north of $50k and Karma is supposed to be around $80k from other reports. These are both very high-end cars.
We shall see if they can transition to ‘lower cost models’ in the future. I highly doubt they can compete in that space. Maybe with Toyota’s influence they can pull it off.
Of course, IF I had the opportunity to own (or even drive) one of these sexy cars, I wouldn’t turn it down!
+13
May 30th, 2010 (8:02 am)A lot of people talked about how the volt was turned into a boring looking car and the Fisker would be so much better looking because they wouldn’t water down their design to produce it. Well, the volt will be out this year and the Fisker Karma is hoping to start production next year. I for one will take a car that looks like other cars on the road to get my hands on the technology underneath. GM knows what they are doing with this car; get it out to the masses first to make some money back on your investment, then re-invest it in future models(hopefully many more to come). I wish Tesla and Fisker all the luck in the world with their vehicle plans.
Go Volt.
+3
May 30th, 2010 (8:03 am)It appears that “just building a car out of the blocks” is a little harder that it looks.
I want GM to be wildly successful and build a LOT of VOLTS asap.
I also like to see Tesla and Fisker eventually get the issues worked out to build electric cars people will buy a little later. :+}
+4
May 30th, 2010 (8:17 am)Had a good look at the Fisker display in Los Angeles. They look great up close. The interior is upscale and loaded with leather. A good number of people were taking pictures. My guess is at least as many as were at the Volt display.
=D-Volt
May 30th, 2010 (8:29 am)Tesla has already sold 1,000 of its first model, forcing the entire auto industry to adapt. Fisker is wise to build dozens of vehicles to prove out architecture and software. I like that they will still build dozens of cars within the next several months.
I am still surprised Honda, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Mercedes, etc. still don’t have plug-in vehicles.
+19
May 30th, 2010 (8:31 am)I have ranted a good bit over the past couple years about Lutz speaking first and thinking later, but I have to admit that GM is looking increasingly professional, even cunning, in the way they have worked the system to produce the Volt. Lutz originally said it would cost less than $30k, then realized how much the electric intent parts were going to cost, and how much the government really wanted to look like they were DOING SOMETHING. So the company line became, ‘It is going to cost $40k or more! We need a government credit or it will bomb!’ They get the credit, they get bailed out, shed a ton of debt and voila! Now the MSRP is probably going to be around $35k and GM is in a completely different financial situation! What a convenient sequence of events!
But what is critical here is that for nearly 3 years, GM has stated that they would release the Volt in 2010, and it looks like they will. While other companies have delayed production, GM has gotten the job done. And if the first 250,000 get the full $7500 credit, it could be 2014 or 2015 before it runs out. Who wants to bet that GM will have the Volt II out by the fall of 2013? It is possible that the Volt II will be out in 2012, with a smaller, lighter, cheaper 14 kWh pack that still supplies a 40 mile AER and allows a 5th seat.
Kudos to GM, build it for less than $37,500 and you will sell every one you can build, and you will be the Green Car Kings. But don’t rest on your laurels, build the EREV Orlando/MPV and an EREV light truck, too!
May 30th, 2010 (8:35 am)Tesla is doing the right things to ensure long term growth. They should have made these moves years ago — but when your leadership team is not focused on cars, the initial cars are frought with problems, and you receive good press far in excess of your actual impact it’s easy to “live in the now” while blowing a cool quarter billion.
Fisker will need to follow a similar path if they ever hope to break out of the niche high end electric car market. Let’s pray that Henrik is learning from those that preceed him.
+20
May 30th, 2010 (8:52 am)Happy Memeorial Day weekend! I would like to thank all the families of the fallen soldiers who have made the ultimate sacrifice with their sons, daughters, and loved ones. Our great country remains free because of them. And many other countries owe them a debt of gratitude too.
And in this time of great financial stress and high unemployment I think Americans need to re-evalutate the importance of maintaining America’s strenth by keeping our fellow citiziens working and producing something of value. That is why I have, in my most recent postings, emphasized buying American made products when they are available and we have a choice whether to buy foreign or domestic.
Along with freedom comes responsibility. And it IS our responsibility to keep America working. It is our responsibility to keep our money on our shores whenever possible, helping the next person down the line when you spend your money here instead of shipping it overseas where it does no good to any of your neighbors.
Keeping your fellow citizens employed keeps them paying taxes. This is where the money to support our military comes from in the first place. And to those who just say we are borrowing money from China, or wherever, to support our government, well, that is ALL THE MORE REASON TO STOP BUYING FOREIGN PRODUCTS. Keep the money here where it supports OUR economy and thus OUR tax base.
My comments aren’t political. They are just sensible to me.
It brings tears to my eyes knowing that so many of my fellow Americans are out of work through no fault of their own. They are hurting. I feel badly for them. It should not be this way. If I can do a small part to help by encouraging people to buy quality, American-made products whenever possible, I feel it is my duty to do so. If you buy a Nissan LEAF, the money and profits go to Japan and are lost forever. Buy a Chevy Volt, and the money stays here, and the Michigan workers who built it spend the money locally to purchase homes, raise families, go to movies, and buy things from their neighborhood stores.
Any SOCIETY is as wealthy as it MAKES things, especially the big things, like cars. If we just let the rest of the world make things for us, we will go deeper into debt, and lose our position as the greatest nation the Earth has ever known. We MUST manufacture the things for our survival on our own shores, using our own engineers, and with our own companies, or we will one day cease to thrive as a nation.
I have traveled to something like 60 foreign countries, many of them very poor. Do you know what makes them poor? They don’t (or can’t) MANUFACTURE things – at least not anything of importance. Many of them them survive by selling trinkets to tourists or t-shirts to each other. This will alway be a losing game since it only pays for a bare subsistence level existence. They can barely get enough to eat.
America has become an economic powerhouse by MANUFACTURING more things per capita than any other country on Earth. We are the World’s greatest producers. But this will not last long if we let the capabilities of our fellow citizens whither and die. That is why I say BUY AMERICAN whenever possible. It keeps our nation strong. And, besides, American brand cars are now equal to or better than anything made in the world. Times have changed. GM today is not the GM of the 1980′s.
With our great wealth we have done much good in the world. We are the most generous nation on earth. Our soldiers have freed a lot of people from oppression. We can only continue to do these things with a broad tax base.
So on this Memorial day weekend I am asking everyone to think about the effects their purchases have on other people and on America.
Keep our money here. Keep our money working in America. We are the GOOD GUYS of this Earth. We deserve to prosper.
My comments are appropriate for this website, regardless of the topic of the day, because I am an avid Chevy Volt fan – not just because of the Volt’s superior, cutting edge technology, but because it is helping to re-invigorate the Great State of Michigan, where the automobile had its beginnings.
I love Americans, and I love America.
My thanks to our fallen soldiers!
GO GM!
GO CHEVY VOLT!
+2
May 30th, 2010 (8:57 am)Tesla is a real company, maybe only niche, but could make a run with the Toyota match up. Fisker is wait and see, but at least moving forward. Seeing this story reminds me of another update we need….
Lyle, seeing that you are working this weekend, maybe you can do an update on EEStor. I think they are do for another (non)announcement. They should be hitting another milestone soon and Zenn should be putting out a statement that the Zennergy system will be ready by the end of 2010, or is it 2011 or …..
+3
May 30th, 2010 (9:02 am)There’s light at the end of the tunnel for the THINK City.
THINK recently announced another round of investment that brought in 40 Million. They plan on moving into their Elkhart, Indiana Headquarters building very soon (it’s 9 miles from me). I drive past it often to watch for changes. 500 THINK City’s built at Valmet (Finland) will arrive by year end. I saw a City cruising around Elkhart a month ago with the EnerDel stickers all over it. I believe it was one of the 2 vehicles brought here in January for the press conference. THINK plans on building the City here in 1st quarter 2011. It really doesn’t use a typical auto assembly line. The steel frame comes in pre-built from a vendor. No body painting (molded plastic body panels). It just an assembly operation at a few stations. Very straight forward.
EnerDel announced a joint venture with a large Chinese Automotive Company the other day.
+2
May 30th, 2010 (9:10 am)It sure does seem that there are significant barriers and pitfalls to getting this technology into the mainstream. The new guys on the block have the vision, but lack the resources. The established companies know the pitfalls and the costs. It takes some effort from both types.
+8
May 30th, 2010 (9:44 am)A waste of time. Only do a blog on EEStor when they have delivered a working unit.
+4
May 30th, 2010 (9:56 am)Dont understand ..everyone wants 4-5 seater car …geez most folks in major regions S Florida have 2 cars ..atleast build a 2 seater small car for commute where we spend most of our time ..fun to drive ..will have high electric mileage before the ICE kicks in ..the cost will be 30-40% less than Volt …geez all manufatcurers are looking to build 4-5 seater cars ..makes no sense to me ..Cost is a factor for many so build a small car ..
+5
May 30th, 2010 (10:02 am)Michigan Guy well put and could not agree more with you and thrust of your argument ..I will buy Volt …not Leaf until it is manufactured in tennesse.. We must buy US made only even I have to pay few $$ more …I will skip on my beer ..lol
+2
May 30th, 2010 (10:25 am)Nah, I think Lyle, should be making phone calls today tracking down Ian Clifford from Zenn or Dick Weir of EEStor. After all, they do have it worked out and it will be any day now!!! LOLOL
+1
May 30th, 2010 (10:51 am)You may want to look at the THINK CITY 2 seat (option 4 seat) car coming out soon to U.S. It is straight electric, but 100 mile range. European built versions are supposed to be here by end of the year. As EXP-ENGTech noted on post #10, they are starting a manufacturing operation in Indiana. Those cars will be available in late 2011. Cost is supposed to be low $20K’s. The proposed Government kickback “should” apply to the Think. Other options are NEV’s which you can now pick up for around 10K. Bottom line is that this is not going to be a low cost value proposition. It is all about trying to reduce the amount of imported oil. Any way you look at it you have to pay to play!
+3
May 30th, 2010 (10:54 am)Let’s not be under any illusions. If Tesla gets into bed with Toyota, one of them is gonna get raped (and it ain’t gonna be Toyo — we all know that Toyota can’t stop!). I predict that if Tesla has a future beyond the Roadster, it will be as an effective division of Toyota.
Fisker manufactures beautiful dreams for auto shows. If a miracle occurs, maybe they can get wheels on the road, but only as the next niche “Roadster.”
Did we need a beautiful auto show dream, or a car? Do we want another rich guy’s plaything or a car for the masses? GO VOLT!!!
+9
May 30th, 2010 (10:58 am)Since you are shouting about this everyday, just a couple of points.
- I’d rather send money to friendly Japan or Korea rather than S Arabia.
- If we don’t want to buy foreign products, why should foreigners buy our products ? If everyone starts buying local, the international trade will collapse. That hurts local economies that are based on export – like our Washington state’s. You guys in Michigan should concentrate on making good products that can effectively compete with foreign products rather than using jingoism to sell.
- Why isn’t GM trying to sell Volt in Japan ?
May 30th, 2010 (10:59 am)… and here’s my Gravatar (I’m not at home, strange computer, etc … )
+9
May 30th, 2010 (11:03 am)No one restricts auto imports more than export-happy Japan … they are a poster child for how not to play nice in the area of automotive world trade.
+2
May 30th, 2010 (11:13 am)Elon Musk saying he’s “run out of money” during his divorce is pretty normal for divorce cases. A lot of people hide income and generally try to make themselves look as “poor” as possible in order to get the most favorable settlement. Nothing new there. I’d wait until the divorce is settled to see how “broke” he really is…
+5
May 30th, 2010 (11:14 am)ZT – I agree, although “rape” might be a little strong. Tesla winked, showed a little leg and eagerly jumped into the Toyota bed (NUMMI). Old Tessie is probably getting a steak and lobster dinner for putting out! Tesla will be very happy as Toyota’s “trophy wife”. LOL… As for Fisker, the stars in Hollywood need there toys too.
May 30th, 2010 (11:21 am)Tesla and Fisker, LOL. I wonder if those loans have been funded? If they have, I bet we never see a dime back. Maybe it’s actually not so funny.
My sense of the “business plans” are that they get the loans funded, float their IPOs, and take off in their Gulfstreams for some country or countries with no extradition treaties.
+5
May 30th, 2010 (11:28 am)+1
Patriotism has it’s place. However, working in a dynamic world economy makes closing trading partners out just dumb.
The labor content of LEAF when it is built in TN will be higher than the foreign labor content. Yeah, parts content and company ownership are important, but, having Americans employed is more important.
It’s not possible to live on a self-contained island anymore.
BTW, Japan IS an island. Everything they build and export requires importing all the raw materials. I believe that Japan is still one of the major importers of our scrap iron. If I were GM, I’d rather sell a few million cars in China than a few thousand in Japan.
+5
May 30th, 2010 (11:28 am)I remember a blog Lyle posted about a year and a half ago when Chrysler showed a picture of five, yes five different models of electric vehicles they had in the “planning” stage. Most all of us here welcome the enthusiasm of car companies to produce an EV, but when reality sets in things look differently.
I think that’s why the seasoned car companies like Honda, BMW & Mercedes have not immediately jumped into the fray and why GM gets my vote for leading the way.
+5
May 30th, 2010 (11:29 am)My life savings is also worth “ONE BILLION DOLLARS”.
However, I do not squander it on such things as car companies.
I invest in high technology…. like sharks with frikkin’ LAZERs on their heads!
Have a great Memorial Day Weekend.
+1
May 30th, 2010 (12:04 pm)Happy Memorial Day!
I wait for my gray color VOLT.
+1
May 30th, 2010 (12:12 pm)Considering all the EV hype and broken promises from so many car companies for so many years, I think it is a true miracle that the Volt is going to happen almost exactly like GM said it would some three or four years ago. The next miracle will be when one is actually sitting in my driveway and the reality of a lifelong dream is a dream no longer. Lyle, you are a hero to me for helping big time to make a dream come true.
May 30th, 2010 (12:16 pm)In my view Tesla is a bubble which is almost ready to broke if there is no miracles or blind big company acquire them – The news says Elon Musk is broke for last 4 months and Toyota deal was just a political/PR move ( only land , no equipments included ). So its a long way to go stuff and if no ipo in this year , toyota doesnt need to invest. Musk is playing all the software stratup games.
I think in a long run Fisker may be better if harmony is maintained. He is doing good silent moves and seems he is reaching his buyers faster ( he is not trying to sell to me or my next door tim ) and car looks very nice.
The good part ,If Musk works out some of his silicon valley marketing games it will be a table turner ( risk is also high ). On the other side Fishker can go for a low entry premium car without much effort ( seems he worked out it in paper very well already and he even has a brake even numbers for sales )
+1
May 30th, 2010 (12:24 pm)=D-Volt
+6
May 30th, 2010 (12:42 pm)Hey Michigan Guy (and other commentators on the matter), a civics lesson: As a retired naval officer commenting during the Memorial Day holiday, note that we would have less “Honored Dead” if the world had always been about world trade. Simple economics courses help you to understand that the entire world is better off when free trade is allowed. It allows for specialization and better products available to all of us. Further, in a world filled with open trade, politicians are more reigned in by corporate interests within their countries. The “War to End all Wars” doesn’t happen in such an environment. Nationalistic arrogance and separatism are tempered much more when your own bank account suffers by going to war. The manufacturing base was behind Hitler in WW II, but what if equally loud voices were there screaming about imports? [BTW, the Treaty of Versailles from WW I can be thanked for eliminating trade and facilitating Hitler’s rise to power]. We kowtow to the Saudis because we need the trade, not because we respect their government.
Free trade also made GM realize it couldn’t give us the CRAP it (and the UAW) had settled for. Well now, the shoe is on the other foot and the arrogance that pervaded GM has now smothered Toyota. The phrase “Buy American” smacks of ignorance and protectionism.
WITH THAT SAID,
Every car I owned was a GM until Toyota embraced its hybrids. Since hybrids have come on the scene, I owned and sold a 2006 Highlander Hybrid and currently own a Prius, a 2008 Highlander Hybrid and a CHEVY TAHOE HYBRID. I want the Volt to succeed and reinvigorate this country’s manufacturing base. We have the expertise and ability to be number 1 and sell our cars all over the world. BUT, they ought to be cars that get us off oil. The sickening spill in the Gulf is a reminder of how toxic this stuff is. And, regardless of W’s exclamations (and the fact that we are not in North Korea right now- No Oil!!), we all know why we are in the Middle East- creating more Honored Dead. Oil! Drill, baby drill! And if it is not our soldiers and sailors dying for the stuff overseas, we can make sure we kill our own ecosystems with the domestic variety. I want my Volt and I want it real soon. BTW, I have solar on my home and office roofs, so the electricity for that Volt will come from the sun- not dirty coal.
May 30th, 2010 (12:44 pm)Lyle: From Venturebeat.com Thurs (27th) feature article on Musk and Tesla. He’s out of cash. With Google Founders behind him however Musk doesn’t need to pass the hat around. Plus, he holds substantial assets. Now the future of NUMMI and its thousands of prospective jobs are at stake if Tesla fails to go public by Dec. 31, 2010. Certainly he and Tesla’s future will be in considerable doubt.
As Karma is further along than Tesla’s Model S (based on each company’s claims) Fisker could have stepped in WHILE NUMMI was operating and worked out a deal with Toyota. A serious error in judgment.
Tesla’s complacency, not a rare condition in Silicon Valley, caused a near $2 mil./wk Q4’09 loss. Venurebeat.com reports this was cut in half in Q1’10. For all purposes the Roaster is MD (Manufacture Discontinue) in 2011.
What we’re seeing a lot of is Henrik Fisker’s ego vs. Elon Musk’s ego. Fisker is an ID guy. (Industrial Design) …He must have a car that bears his name- but totally unproven at leading a business. Musk’s an extremely successful business innovator. Musk near went broke buoying his equity stake from certain dilution. But he like Fisker must wholly depend on an engineering team to carry a product into production– with which Tesla does have a demonstrable advantage.
Is it possible for the two to connect? Yes. The first time they came to blows. Then there’s the second time around. Clearly Tesla’s IPO would be much more tenable if someone like Bob Lutz were to take the lead. Both men think about this 7/24 – you can be sure.
+1
May 30th, 2010 (1:02 pm)Not to defend Japan but they stopped that years ago.. the problem is that the japanese consumer besides being xenophobic is extremely demanding of the fit and finish of their cars.
May 30th, 2010 (1:24 pm)Well if your looking for a performance electric vehicle, take at look at what Bugatti has up its sleeve!
800 hp of screaming car….
“The E-Tron concept has two electric motors, one at each axel, that produce a total of 313 horsepower and 3,320 lb-ft of torque. The vehicle is essentially a rocket that goes from 0 to 62 mph in 4.8 seconds.”
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/05/bugatti_developing_800_hp_all-electric_supercar.php
May 30th, 2010 (1:54 pm)Musk/Tesla only want look poor so not to give ex wife no more monies. Smart man.
May 30th, 2010 (2:25 pm)I would like a Volt coupe. And I dont need 40 miles so give it some more juice so i can go 0-60 in maybe 6 seconds.
+6
May 30th, 2010 (2:35 pm)While all of you man the barbeques, I am on the job, wishing we had the New Chevy VOLT and the New Chevy Cruze available for sale. Have a great Memorial Day! Tell a friend to stop in and buy a car.
+4
May 30th, 2010 (2:37 pm)Good points. +1.
Japan and South Korea are both thriving democracies.
Saudi Arabia is a kindom. Most of their citizens hate us, and many are actively trying to kill us.
Big difference…
If you haven’t already see this video, it really drives home your point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFJH0mimzqk
They’ve set up system that makes it very difficult for any other country to sell stuff in Japan. In other words, while Japan is a thriving democracy, it doesn’t really have an open market.
I used to work for a telcommunications company that sold 1 product in Japan. I went there for the Beta test in 1990. They put up all sort of barriers. In the end, the product was legally for sale in Japan, but hardly any actually sold.
+4
May 30th, 2010 (4:17 pm)I’ve been following this board for quite a while now, and though I can’t claim to have read every word (they keep pouring out so fast!) I have found it curious that no one seems to have mentioned something that seems obvious to me.
Tesla is a rich man’s Leaf.
Fisker Karma is a rich man’s Volt.
I mean, how many companies are designing and building EREV cars right now? There’s GM, and there’s Fisker, and … uh … uh … maybe there are others, but I can’t think of them.
Now, does this mean the Karma is going to be a direct competitor to the Volt? At that price? Hardly! What it does mean, especially if Fisker succeeds, is the world will finally be convinced of the truth that GM is not way off in left field with the EREV concept.
I think we here, and the voltec team in GM, should be praying for Fisker’s success. The Karma can be the flashy, sporty, beacon that leads the public to the Volt, the affordable EREV.
May 30th, 2010 (4:55 pm)I’ve been saying this for quite a while. The Volt desperately needs real competition, and by competition I mean a car that:
• runs on gasoline and electricity
• has at least 30 miles all-electric range
• is built by a major car maker, with a solid network of dealers
• is real, not a prototype or concept
By this simple definition, the Volt has no competition, and that’s a huge problem. Without competition, potential customers will be more hesitant. They’ll say: “If this is such a great thing, how come nobody else is doing it?” So competition validates the market.
Some people say the Plug-in Prius and Leaf are the Volt’s competition, but these are totally different vehicles. The Plug-in Prius still uses gasoline as its primary fuel source. The Leaf has problems with range and cold weather. These are major differences.
So what we’re seeing is GM padding up the price of the Volt, saying that the Leaf is a different kind of car. If the Volt had real competition, then GM couldn’t get away with saying that, so they would be forced to find ways to reduce costs faster.
+2
May 30th, 2010 (5:30 pm)Single-party rule for 54 years makes you a thriving democracy? South Korea and India can perhaps lay claim to “thriving”; Japan is an elaborately structured feudal system with a bit more upward mobility. They’ve managed their internal market brilliantly, though. The Chinese are copying their model for development, not ours.
May 30th, 2010 (5:31 pm)From my experience, 2 seaters are as expensive as other cars or often more.
+1
May 30th, 2010 (5:39 pm)Me neither, and it would be the Fisker.
-8
May 30th, 2010 (6:10 pm)This is an extremely biased and frankly disgusting attempt to make these innovative startups look bad.
The only FAILED company here is GM. Without $80 BILLION DOLLARS of taxpayer money there would be NO VOLT PERIOD.
GM’s being 100 years old with vast resources has nothing to do with anything.
Had either of these smaller company gotten even 20 percent of what GM got we would already have better EV to choose from.
The Volt, no matter how good it turns out to be, will NEVER EVER BE WORTH THE $80 BILLION DOLLARS it took to finish it.
Once again just a pathetic article, Lyle could do better than this piece of yellow journalism.
+3
May 30th, 2010 (6:32 pm)Why isn’t GM trying to sell the Volt in Japan? Perhaps because Japan HEAVILY discriminates against foreign automobiles.
Let’s set all of you “free trade” / “global economy” types straight…. *WE* are the most open country in the world when it comes to trade. We have less local favoritism than any other country. (This is a political thing, not necessarily what the populace desires.)
+2
May 30th, 2010 (7:13 pm)Scootster, How about posting a link to one of your informative blogs. I am sure we would love to stop by and bash the he!! out of it.
Get a life, or at least pretend.
+2
May 30th, 2010 (7:18 pm)If we just let the rest of the world make things for us, we will go deeper into debt, and lose our position as the greatest nation the Earth has ever known. We MUST manufacture the things for our survival on our own shores, using our own engineers, and with our own companies, or we will one day cease to thrive as a nation.
And yet all of the engines in the cars that competed today in the Indianapolis 500 were made by Honda. If thay doesn’t scare you it should.
+4
May 30th, 2010 (7:30 pm)From Michigan Guy #8: Any SOCIETY is as wealthy as it MAKES things, especially the big things, like cars. If we just let the rest of the world make things for us, we will go deeper into debt, and lose our position as the greatest nation the Earth has ever known. We MUST manufacture the things for our survival on our own shores, using our own engineers, and with our own companies, or we will one day cease to thrive as a nation.
If you watched the Indianapolis 500 today, you should know that all of the engines used in all of the race cars were made by Honda. If that doesn’t scare you, it should!
+3
May 30th, 2010 (8:43 pm)There, corrected it for you …
May 30th, 2010 (8:54 pm)Strawman.
“GM aims to double sales in Japan by 2011″
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/01/18/gm-aims-to-double-sales-in-japan-by-2011/
GM used to sell 50K cars in Japan in 1996 (similat to what Nissan sold in Japan last year) – fell to 2K last year.
May 30th, 2010 (10:32 pm)I think this is one time I will have to agree with all the people who say let’s make sure the Volt is perfect. I think GM should sell as many as they can in the US, before they go shipping them to China, Japan or Europe. Especially in 2011. No use in jeopardizing their reputation.
May 30th, 2010 (11:34 pm)Let me correct that, we want to make/sell big and expensive things.. drugs, cars, airplanes, weapons, computers, robots, machinery and so on.. what we dont want to make is cheap commodity items such as shoes, plastic gizmos, transistor radios, vcrs or telephones..
We need to remove barriers and excessive regulations to business in the US.
May 30th, 2010 (11:42 pm)I say F.T.W. Sell every volt made for the next ten years right here in the US of A. It was our $80,000,000,000.00 that made it possible.
May 31st, 2010 (12:05 am)GM won’t be at full manufacturing for at least a year, so there will be further delay for the majority of VOLT buyers too.
Tesla may have sold more roadsters if they were similar to the GM XLR with a storable hardtop, good trunk space and easy to enter/exit. When visiting Tesla Motors, the saleslady suggested the Model S to me when I couldn’t easily get out of the Roadster!
-6
May 31st, 2010 (1:15 am)I always thought Tesla might be a flop due to its price, and the fact that it only seats 2 (if you thought the Volt was expensive…), and that it is electric-only . Now I HOPE it’s a flop. I wish nothing but the worst to Musk and his new half-his-age fiance.
The Karma on the other hand is nothing but sexy and gets my thumbs up.
+2
May 31st, 2010 (5:06 am)I agree about the 100 years. The past is irrelevant. And by the way, I haven’t owned a GM car in 25 years.
But I do believe a large auto maker with vast resources and experience makes a huge difference.
The money used to bail out GM will be paid back after the IPO. As an alternative, if GM went out of business, millions of people would have lost their jobs, which would have meant $billions in lost tax revenues and unemployment payments.
Bottom line: Not bailing out GM would have cost taxpayers more.
+1
May 31st, 2010 (5:12 am)Those frequenting gm volt dot com are right in the middle of the transition to electric drive vehicles. 90% of the population are too busy with their day to day activities to follow this change to our electric drive future. It will take about 2 or 3 years for 25% of the population to grasp the advantages of electric drive. And another 1 or 2 years before dealerships are well stocked and can absorb the Prius-like rush to grab an electric drive car. Combine the awareness curve with the price drop in batteries and you have the perfect environment to dominate the new car sales market. We’re going electric. It will be as it is now. 20% of drivers will want to own the most expensive car available. Tesla and Fisker will do just fine.
=D-Volt
+1
May 31st, 2010 (5:17 am)Canada also put up $billions to bail out GM…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Chapter_11_reorganization
and they’ll also get that back after the IPO.
May 31st, 2010 (10:13 am)May our Lord look favorably on GM, Nissan, Elon Musk with Toyota, Mr. Fisker, and any entrepreneurial plan to free our Western nations from Terrorist Middle-East oil barons. They are bent on ending the experiment in Freedom. Current Tally: China, a nation of despot governing is soon to be the World’s No. 1 economy. The Middle-East, with no freedom for religion, women, democracy, holding the keys to our future through an addiction to oil under their lands.
We need to bring manufacturing back home and rely on our own energy sources. There isn’t even a governing party here who will stand up for America any longer.
CHEVY VOLT: American-made, American-FUELED.
+1
May 31st, 2010 (10:19 am)Amen, saving GM and Chrysler was a no brainer. Can you imagine America without this last bastion of manufacturing in times of war, or for the simple sanctity of providing an engine behind the country’s direction. Someone isn’t reading the history books here. Every great downfall first inked it’s way ith a loss of trade. We’ve been losing for 30 years now. Pretty much at the start of free trade and “Adam Smith” stupidity believing there isn’t a larger umbilical cord to controlling and shaping trade. The communists are winning thanks to a small group of fools living in the past thinking of Adam Smith. Doesn’t work on the global stage.
+2
May 31st, 2010 (1:36 pm)Since we believe that any forum in cyberspace is the proper forum to express gratitude – we offer ours here for the men and women who have courageously given their lives so that we might debate the future of EVs in places like this. It is all too easy to forget the sacrifices made by those in service to their country when caught up in the car-making business. Most people who know this site also know that without our free market system and the concept of free enterprise – there would be no evolving EV business – or Volt or Tesla or Leaf most likely.
Thank you to the families of our vets and those in service today. Without your sacrifice and commitment to our Constitution – we would not be gathered here. God Bless.
+1
May 31st, 2010 (1:57 pm)Those who forget the past are bound to repeat it….
Video 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLknNrrL6QU&feature=related
Video 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwJCK6G38kg&feature=related
Video 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75KuOkIFPiU&feature=watch_response
May 31st, 2010 (4:22 pm)I agree EVNow. Gas should go extinct and should be replaced with alternative fuels such as ethanol,Bio Diesel,Such as algae,sugar cane, and other plant sources. Plus we should also in the future extend our electric car’s range even further in the future like in the 100′S such as a 200 or 300 miles on electric range in the future if it’s possible for car companies to do that without taking out the performance of the car or spiking up the price tag what a dream that would be without having to smell horrible fumes and not having to worry about health risk of gas and diesel unless car companies can use clean diesel like they use in Europe that’s suppose to more efficient than traditional diesel but if it’s smelly and bad like traditional diesel than I’m not going with it at all uh uh! Also I wish most cars would fully go electric in the future but only as I said earlier in my comment when there in the 100′S when it comes to range or higher. Electric reins supreme gas shall be extinct! Plus oil as well.
May 31st, 2010 (7:15 pm)GM, Fisker, and Tesla have all received Government (taxpayer) money.
With part of that money, GM plans to build a car for the masses, a serial plug-in hybrid called the Volt.
Fisker & Tesla, however, plan on using their taxpayer monies to build vehicles that are essentially a rich mans plaything.
By years end, I expect both Fisker & Tesla to be out of business.
Jun 1st, 2010 (9:19 am)Are you forgetting the 2011 plug in prius?
Tom
Jun 1st, 2010 (10:53 am)Nice pix Dave, although I have to wonder how “real” those cars actually were. I’m reminded of some of our demo items at work (rather not go into details) where they look nice but are pretty much plywood, fiberglass, and bailing wire underneath. One of these items even ended up on a TV documentary as if it was real.
Not ripping on Dave or anyone else here, but it’s always funny how people equate a beautiful car with quality and reliability, and an ugly car with the opposite. In reality there’s no correlation between beauty and those factors. OK, so a lot of clunkers in the past have been ugly (Yugo, Pinto, etc), but a car can be pretty and still be a piece of poorly-designed junk underneath.
Good luck to Fisker and Tesla in any case, engineering cars is not a trivial task! It’s not like Monster Garage or Junkyard Wars, where the thing only has to last for a short period of time.
-1
Jun 2nd, 2010 (12:35 pm)One-man auto companies have always had their problems – the Tucker springs to mind. The
auto industry using ICE power has had tall barriers to entry – one of the reasons that it’s relatively hard to either kill an auto company or become a member of the group. That is a negative, not a plus, when it comes to innovation. And GM, which recently stole tens of billions of dollars from its shareholders and bondholders, mostly retirees thru their retirement and IRA funds, is hardly to be applauded as a company that has succeeded, at least not in any economic sense. Nor is it accurate to say that the Volt has been developed as planned. Te original Volt looked so different from what’s out there now that calling them the same car is rather fraudulent. A very large determination of what makes a car a car is its looks. Looks sell cars and always will, because people place value on things of beauty. Generally speaking, it doesn’t cost any more to stamp out pretty fenders. But a competitive car marjket will arrive, just as sioon as a practical battery gets here. The automakers have no monopoly on batteries and electric motors, as they do on ICEs and the assorted voluminous electronic paraphrenalia that’s required for emissions and efficiency. So the advent of EVs will be accompanied by
a strong reduction in the advantage now enjoyed by the major automakers. A very large proportion of their manufacturing expertise and investment in plants, equipment and personnel will disappear overnight. An all electric car is a relatively uncomplicated piece of machinery
that many companies are in a position to produce. And they can hire Italian designers and Asian coachbuilders just as easily as GM or Toyota can, who will have a much easier time
without tall engines and gas tanks and exhaust and cooling systems to contend with.
I have the distinct feeling that those major automakers who are producing the first modern
electric cars will be unwittingly digging their own graves. GM has, once again, failed to understand the market if they think that their Volt can compete with the looks of a Fisker or even a Tesla. I’ve watched GM make one blunder after another for over 40 years now and expect them to continue. Far from being an indication of a reborn and revitalized GM, the Volt
will once again prove that GM just doesn’t get it. If GM only had a brain…..
Jun 2nd, 2010 (3:26 pm)Japan and Korea are anything but friendly when it comes to trade. They buy their own products whenever possible, because they understand the value of a strong manufacturing sector. They encourage their governments to subsidize and protect local industries while complaining if we try to do the same.
“Free trade” is a myth. The rest of the world doesn’t respect us because we open our markets to them but lack the courage to stand up when they close their markets to us. Will we learn our lesson in time to avoid becoming just another third world consumer economy?
Having a US trade surplus big enough to collapse international trade is so far from the realm of possibilities (given our current deficits for so many decades), that I don’t think it’s worth discussing outside of academia.
Even our Washington state economy exports less each year as our few remaining manufacturers outsource and “offset” work. Do you think Boeing *wanted* to give away their proprietary wing technology to Mitsubishi? I’m sure that the subsidy money from the Japanese government allowed them to close the business case and make them competitive against the European competition (which enjoys direct government subsidies).
Jun 2nd, 2010 (3:32 pm)10 miles of “best case” AER (<60 MPH, level ground, only mild acceleration) is not much competition for the Volt, unless you are just looking for a "Hybrid" and not an electric vehicle.
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