CNN’s Peter Valdes-Dapena was given the opportunity to test drive one of the Chevy Volt mule vehicles. Since this is likely to be one of several we will see published I think it would be helpful to cover these individually. Have no fear faithful readers, I too had a test drive opportunity as well. GM though has placed an embargo on my experience and will not let me publish it until a certain number of journalists have had the chance. If they change the rule I will publish it ASAP.
The CNN review broke down into 4 sections:
1. Early Results
The vehilce is a mule, about 80% true Volt. It is a Chevy Cruze both on the interior and interior, except for a big red Kill Switch. The reporter took it for some laps around the Milford proving ground but was not allowed to experience the generator going on.
2. Charging Ahead
He noted “Under full electric power, which is how most owners will experience it most of the time, the Volt proved surprisingly potent.”
3. Silent Power
The reporter was struck by the car’s quietness noting “the silence was still surprising,” and that “the car feels particularly muscular” due to instant torque. 0 to 60 he reported was a little over 8 seconds. He found the car to be silent and vibration free and that “when Volt owners get in their cars in the morning, the gasoline engine will not rumble to life.” The absence of a transmission wasn’t needed to keep the electric motor in the performance “sweet spot.” He confirmed the car felt like driving a 250 hp V6.
4. Weight watching
The reporter thought the front wheel drive car felt surprisingly heavy when he went into turns. The presence of the 400 pound battery pack was considered to be part of the reason why. The reporter said “It felt almost like the small Cruze had turned into something more like a Cadillac the moment I turned the steering wheel.” He said Tony Posawatz assured him this would be refined with suspension tuning by the final cars.
5. Future developments
The reporter confirmed as we know GM is already working on 2nd and 3rd generations of the Chevy Volt that will continue to offer 40 miles electric range. He says the next generation of Voltec cars, from 2015 and beyond will be “lighter, roomier and will cost less than the Volt.” He concludes “In the end, the Volt won’t be a huge seller or a big money-maker for GM. Its value lies in changing perceptions. A test drive in this early version is one step in the process.”
I personally asked Mr. Valdes-Dapena for his overall impression of the drive just for us here at GM-Volt.com. He wrote back “Except for the added weight of the battery pack, I found it surprisingly fun to drive, at least at around-town speeds.”
I would keep in mind that these Cruze mules are test cars and the engineers are using them to learn how to refine the final Volt experience. All the bells and whistles are absent. But this report and mine and others when they are published confirms the the Volt program is real and far along and GM is ready to start showing off the fruits of their labor.
Within a few weeks the production version Volts will come off the technical center assembly line and shall offer a far more refined experience.
Source (CNN)
Apr 14th, 2009 (7:01 am)This will be very exciting when we can all actually drive the real deal. As much as I love my Prius, I am ready for new change. GO Volt!
Apr 14th, 2009 (7:08 am)I just finished reading the CNN report. It’s got me a bit excited. Now I just hope GM lets us know what real availability will be for the Volt in 2010 and 2011…
Apr 14th, 2009 (7:11 am)It is interesting that GM wants the journalist reports released before Lyle’s report.
Apr 14th, 2009 (7:13 am)Why not wait for the production version…comes at a time with a LOT of bad news. A gag order on Lyle? Sounds goofy.
Apr 14th, 2009 (7:21 am)Lyle
It has to be tough to keep from typing your report!!!
I would have to commit to not drinking till I was allowed to speak about the Volt. Two beers and my mouth would go into overdrive.
Apr 14th, 2009 (7:28 am)I think the Volt will have hiccups but not many. GO VOLT! as VOLTinME says.
Apr 14th, 2009 (7:29 am)Another small step ahead. GM must be using the large side view mirrors and uncovered wheels for high drag testing. Will be interesting to get battery range details under this test set up.
Apr 14th, 2009 (7:32 am)Oh, sweet! You finally got your test drive?? I’m really looking forward to your impressions.
Apr 14th, 2009 (7:35 am)Hmmm…maybe Lyle got a more “in depth” test drive and/or the test drive has not ended for him. Lyle is a production version Volt in your garage?
Apr 14th, 2009 (7:45 am)#5 Old man
I think you mean it must be tough for Lyle not to PUBLISH his report..I have no doubt its all typed up and ready to post in less time it takes a Corvette to go from 0-60…lol
Way too cool Lyle..glad you got the drive..and I can almost feel your tension in wanting to scream your feelings about it…
Apr 14th, 2009 (7:45 am)Actually, this is a far more positive review than you might think at first glance. Peter Valdes-Dapena is an absolute hack of an automotive writer …. his history is to simply bash American made cars whenever he gets the chance ( I rate him only a notch above Fortune Magazines’ Alex Taylor III, the ultimate d-bag when it comes to the US auto industry ). For Valdes-Dapena to write even remotely balanced comments about the Volts driveability, it had to absolutely kill him …. this article tells me that the mule must have performed unbelievably well ! GO VOLT, GO GM !
Apr 14th, 2009 (7:55 am)Guido @11 – I agree. Instead of bashing, he said, “…assuming the car proves to be dependable. GM quality has improved greatly in recent years, so that’s far from a crazy assumption.” That was on page 5, “future.”
Also on page 5 of the article it said:
“Next-generation Voltec cars – that means cars planned for 2015 and beyond – will be lighter, roomier and will cost less than the Volt.” This is the first time I’ve heard 2015 as the first year of the next gen.
Apr 14th, 2009 (8:01 am)Congratulations on your long awaited and richly deserved test drive–Lyle. Looking forward to reading your impressions!
Apr 14th, 2009 (8:06 am)“But this report and mine and others when they are published confirms the the Volt program is real and far along and GM is ready to start showing off the fruits of their labor.”
Lyle, you seem to be alluding to the fact that you’ve test driven a mule now… eh? eh?
Edit: Guess I should read the first paragraph before the last, congratulations Lyle!
Apr 14th, 2009 (8:07 am)Mitch
That may explain why we haven’t heard from Static. On his way to NYC to get a sneak peek at Lyle’s transcript!!
Apr 14th, 2009 (8:10 am)Did everyone drive the white one in the photo? Or is that a random photo? I’m just wondering how similiar all of the mules are, or are they set up differently resulting in different experiences.
Think of going to the go-cart track and everyone knows to go the red car #12 because its the fastest.
Apr 14th, 2009 (8:14 am)Around 8 seconds for 0-60? Outstanding! Reports I read had the 0-60 in Prius territory, i.e. around 9.5 seconds. The Volt’s acelleration is not exactly necksnapping, but respectable, if it felt like a V6. Another step forward, now if GM can survive GSB…
Apr 14th, 2009 (8:18 am)I’m surprised that GM-Volt would be banned from doing a write-up on the experience since it is you Lyle who has pushed and prodded the Volt along with all of us.
Regardless, glad you got to try it out. I look forward to your report.
GM: Do all you can to break your release date! Get this car to market before the end of 2010 and in sufficient quantities to wow the competition and the American consumer.
Being from Michigan, I want mine as soon as possible. My Bonneville isn’t going to last forever….it’s at 185,000 miles now. And for me I won’t be buying another car unless it has a plug.
Apr 14th, 2009 (8:34 am)There’s a video on CNN Money with Peter Valdes-Dapena.
At the very end of the video the GM person says the Volt is GM’s future and that is based on customer feedback (Us? GM-Volt.com!)
GO VOLT!
I’ll take mine in Blue.
Apr 14th, 2009 (8:35 am)Lyle, you sneaky dog!!!! You had us all screaming at GM to give you a test drive, and you already had one…..
I don’t understand the restriction that you hold off on your report until more of the mainstream media publish first. Are we at GM-Volt.com the forgotten step-children? I hope not. I still have faith that your wait list may still have a chance at some of the first Gen-1 Volts off of the production line!!!!
As far as the article. It had a very positive tone for the Volt. But IMHO, 0-60 mph in 8.5 seconds is OK, but 0-40 miles AER is the real prize!!!
I think I speak for all of us when I say that we can’t wait to read Lyle’s report on his test drive!
Go GM! Go GM Volt Team!!!
Apr 14th, 2009 (8:38 am)#17 Ziv
Around 8 seconds for 0-60? Outstanding!
————
That is good, but I’d really like to hear the 0-30 time too.
(or i guess a speed vs time graph)
Apr 14th, 2009 (8:41 am)Volt is currently on Regis and Kelly as I type this.
Apr 14th, 2009 (8:41 am)WOW, another example of leading with your chin to open the Volt to Constantly Negative N for an initial impression. Sounds like SOMEONE in GM is confident.
Be well,
Tag
Apr 14th, 2009 (8:42 am)Congratulations, Lyle! I too am looking forward to your report (I hope it will be soon).
I’m wondering if GM put the gag order on Lyle’s report so that no one can say that Lyle’s report had any influence on any of the others.
Apr 14th, 2009 (8:42 am)Casting the fishing line now….
So Lyle…is there ANYTHING you can share with us about your experience–(that wouldn’t voilate your agreement with GM of course)??? Say on a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being horrific and 10 being other worldly, could you say where on that scale your test drive ranked? Just curious!
Apr 14th, 2009 (8:46 am)Congrats Lyle on your test drive. Finally! In my opinion, without Gm-Volt.com, the Volt may have never achieved a higher status than concept.
Apr 14th, 2009 (8:48 am)Lift the embargo!
Finally. Descriptions of the VOLT that will entice someone to BUY it (other than electric range and overall mpg). I can’t wait for Lyle’s review. I hope there are more details about the “fun factor”. The VOLT will have appeal to those on this site, to be sure, but it needs to have more ‘exciting’ reviews to get a commuter with an average income to be willing to pay the premium price to move away from gasoline only.
Go VOLT! Go Camaro!
Apr 14th, 2009 (8:50 am)I like the shape of the Cruze more than the flattened Volt look.
Once they shakeout all the bugs they should be able to produce these vehicles (and variants) like popcorn. Go GM. This may be your last chance to lead.
Apr 14th, 2009 (8:52 am)Congratulations, Lyle!
Makes me wonder why you have to hold back your responses to the Volt test drive. Is GM afraid that you might have some negative comments on the Volt?.
We all know that any thing that you have to say about the Volt … is in the interest of getting the Volt out there for everyone and any comments (good or bad) is for getting the BEST VOLT possible..
GM….. use this list for your cross country distribution… # 974… Central Alberta Canada… All the options … in a dark color…. ASAP
Apr 14th, 2009 (8:56 am)Here a Chevy Volt possible problem is reported: http://lemmingreviews.blogspot.com/2009/04/chevy-volt-engine-problem.html
Engine sitting for months without running (running on battery and recharge every night) will eventually be a bad thing for the engine.
Apr 14th, 2009 (9:04 am)It has been talked internally that the battery can’t sustain its performance due to wear and repeated charge/discharge cycles. Can Lyle ask GM the following questions?
1). What is the longest mileage of any volt Mule?
2). If it is more 50,000 miles? Are there any noticeable battery degradation?
3). How much difference in terms of the battery performance degradation between mule test and lab test?
Nothing makes any sense unless the battery can deliver >80% of original performance after 100,000 miles. I have talked to many experienced battery scientists, and none of them have confidence in that. BTW, I was told that the pouch cell tend to bulge after repeated uses because it is NOT sealed in a can to prevent bulging due to repeated use.
Apr 14th, 2009 (9:13 am)chevy volt is a silent killer of many japanese cars and german cars .
Apr 14th, 2009 (9:17 am)Lyle,
Looking forward to your review. It will be nice to hear from someone with a more intimate knowledge of the Volt, versus mainstream media clones that just regurgitate the spoon-fed details they are given.
Congratulations on getting a drive in the mule. Now when is your drive in the integration vehicle?
Apr 14th, 2009 (9:19 am)#15 old man said:
Mitch
That may explain why we haven’t heard from Static. On his way to NYC to get a sneak peek at Lyle’s transcript!!
============================
Actually….I have it right here, and I am under no embargo, so here it is:
Michigan (source:GM-volt.com) – It was a wednesday just like any other. I took notice of the light dew on the ground, as I left my home. As I passed my wife’s horticultural nightmare, that she referred to as a garden, and got into my car, I bemused that this could be a day like any other…cracking heads open and running marathons, but it was not. I paused a moment there in my front seat, looking out into the street where a young boy and his mother shared a private moment and a hug before he left for school. “Yes,” I thought, “this day will be special”
My mood soon changed as I rolled I drove down 12 mile road, where I was met with the stares of a hundred unemployed souls wandering the large campus, and wading in the feckless pool at the base of this ominous building made of steel, glass and glazed brick. It could double as the monolith for the movie 2001 if it was erect.
How this building was ever honored as one of the best architectural project of its era is a mystery, to me. Then again around the same time they were crowning the 1989 Grand Prix as the car of the year. I patted my passenger side headrest and whispered, “Your still the car of the year to me too, GP”
I was met by someone at the front, I really cannot remember who it was, although I’m sure they had the title of vice president of something or other…the front stapler I suspect. My snicker was met with a cold stare from a large man in a three piece suit on the veranda above me. I could only assume he was a high ranking executive because he was not only handsome, but well over six feet tall.
As I was ushered through the building for the obligatory hand shaking/love fest before doing my test drive, I gazed at a seemingly endless wall full of nametags of all of the engineers that had lost their employ here over the past few years. Oh, Matsui Shinsheung, where are you now my friend? I feel faint…
The next thing I recall is being awakened in a large room with other car journalists, being briefed on why the car I was about to ‘test’ drive would not function flawlessly, and why I should pay no attention to things like why there are no working climate controls, or a big piece of the dash lying in the back seat, or why there is like a hundred OnStar/panic buttons placed randomly inside.
Wait, had I been drugged? How did I get here? I wanted to check the clock on the wall for the time of day, but GM stopped plugging those in months ago to save on electricity…if only this room had windows.
To exit the room I was forced to sign a multiple page document I was unable to read because my eyes where still dialated from the drugs. I can only assume I will be receiving a subscription to “General Motors Corporate Responsibility Report” and possibly a football phone.
Finally I was inside the car, where I first noticed….
(insert approved GM material here in your own words)
–examples of acceptable comments
*car is what I expected, a mule
*a electric car is quiet
*quiet cars are cool
Any criticisms you may have you must suffix with “GM will fix that in the real car”
All the best,
Lyle
Apr 14th, 2009 (9:19 am)“0 to 60 he reported was a little over 8 seconds.”
That’s pretty good, I think, all things considered. My BMW Z4 does it in 7, so I guess I wouldn’t feel like I was missing too much on this count.
“It felt almost like the small Cruze had turned into something more like a Cadillac the moment I turned the steering wheel.”
This one I find a bit disappointing, but perhaps not unexpected. I tend towards rear- and four-wheel drive cars, and always look for something I can whip around curves when there aren’t SUVs in my way. I hope they do manage to do something for it with the suspension tuning, because on our curvy northeast parkways (Lyle knows what I’m talking about, I’m sure) it’s nice not to be driving a boat.
But my number one priority is to stop having to buy gas, and right now that requires a huge battery pack. I understand that, and I’m willing to make some trade-offs. I hope a lot of people are (though considering what “a lot of people” drive, I don’t think they’ll find the handling to be a trade-off….)
Apr 14th, 2009 (9:23 am)#30 francesco caggoini
If the I C E needs to run every so many weeks or months then the software will instruct the car to start and run the I C E for a period of time.
OFF TOPIC I went to allcarselectric.com and read that Michigan wants to be a major producer of batteries for the E-REV and BEV auto industry. I think the battery manufacturers shoud also set up shop in the south so that the U A W can not get a strangle hold on that industry and hense give foreign builders another advantage.
Apr 14th, 2009 (9:26 am)Seriously Lyle, gratz on getting that ride. Looking forward to reading it.
(=
Apr 14th, 2009 (9:29 am)I’m with Tag on how confident GM is. Has a major company ever allowed journalists to drive a mule? Usually they don’t let them drive the production intent cars.
Lyle, I thought you might have had a test drive but were under an embargo. Congratulations! It should be fun to hear you compare the experience compared to the Tesla. The danger of course is that people will lose sight of the fact that this is a mule, and one for a car which is still a year and a half away. Lots of time for tuning.
One interesting piece of this review was that the reporter found the mule “surprisingly potent”. I wonder what he was expecting? A NmG? In thinking about what he said, my comparative universe would say that the Volt would handle like an Acura TL, which has a few more hp but weighs a few hundred pounds more. This is actually quite good because the TL is quite popular with those who like zippy performance (I think it’s Acura’s best seller).
FWIW the Aptera was quite a rush. It was incredibly quick and had something of a go-cart experience since the large amount of glass in the front had you looking right at the road. You should try and get a test drive from Aptera just as a comparison.
Apr 14th, 2009 (9:31 am)At #34 Statik:
I’m jealous man…you always get the perks!
Apr 14th, 2009 (9:32 am)@22, Chris:
>> Volt is currently on Regis and Kelly as I type this.
I really don’t have anything against Regis, but I will go on record as stating that it’s about damn time somebody ran over Kelly.
Apr 14th, 2009 (9:41 am)“… even though the test drive had seemed to take only moments, I found that, when I returned, fifteen minutes had passed.
“The final car will have a red tint to the windshield so that the blue-shift won’t be so noticeable,” said Posawatz …”
Apr 14th, 2009 (9:44 am)Interesting article, Lyle, and I am glad you have had your Mule test drive opportunity. I assume the reason they want you to keep quiet is because you will be a big proponent of the Volt and they don’t want your opinion to override any other driver’s opinion. Seems unlikely that would be the case. Except, of course, on this site. Thanks for the good work and thanks to GM for giving you and others the chance for a test drive.
Apr 14th, 2009 (9:56 am)“GM though has placed an embargo on my experience and will not let me publish it until a certain number of journalists have had the chance.”
A certain number? A number with certainty? What is that number? Major media outlets? Why does CNN go first? Did they gag Jay Leno?
Apr 14th, 2009 (10:05 am)Congratulations Lyle. It is good that you are under an embargo because you can refine the article as you wait for release. It is also good you drove a mule because you will be able to comment on differences between it and the production intent model when you drive that as well.
/I want lots of technical details Lyle, and photos as well?
//That’s bits of Voltec photos not you with a BIG smile on yr’ face.
#30 francesco caggioni Says: Engine sitting for months without running (running on battery and recharge every night) will eventually be a bad thing for the engine.
I don’t see why the Generator can’t turn the ICE over, without fuel, for a few seconds each time it gets plugged in to keep the ICE lubed. The ICE should last years without ever actually having any petrol/gas run through it. JMHO.
Apr 14th, 2009 (10:08 am)#30 Francesco : The engine sitting idle is something we have been discussing here for months, with a simple solution being that the computer turns the engine on at certain time intervals whether or not it is needed for battery charging. That’s a simple programming line that changes absolutely nothing about the actual design of the car. If we are smart enough to figure it out, we can only hope that GM is smarter.
Apr 14th, 2009 (10:08 am)CNBC just did a piece on the Volt with film of a test ride in a mule. Good impressions.
Apr 14th, 2009 (10:11 am)A strange comment from the reviewer; “Under full electric power, which is how most owners will experience it most of the time, the Volt proved surprisingly potent.” Well the way I understand it is that the relationship between the electric drive motor and the battery is never effected by whether or not the battery is receiving a charge from the generator. So if the car is potent under full electric power, then shouldn’t it perform identically potent in gasoline serial hybrid mode?
Apr 14th, 2009 (10:13 am)http://www.wwj.com/VIDEO–Chevy-Volt-Test-Drive/4200141
Take Care
Arch
Apr 14th, 2009 (10:18 am)Lyle, I figured as much that you had your test drive but were under a gag order, which is pretty common when journalists review a new car that is about to be released.
Apr 14th, 2009 (10:19 am)Lyle
great to hear you got OUR Ride
. Am waiting with baited breath for your report.
I am getting closer to my Solar panels so Volt juice will be really Cheap.
Go VOLT Go!
Apr 14th, 2009 (10:28 am)I’d post the review anyways, its your blog and this is America, you know the whole freedom of speech thing.
Apr 14th, 2009 (10:28 am)Here’s a link to the article on CNN Money:
Apr 14th, 2009 (10:32 am)i’m 100 percent with Lyles comments,.. dunno why i can’t believe those reporters….Lyle definitely will tell you the truth…
Apr 14th, 2009 (10:34 am)#51 Kirk
If he did that, GM would have the freedom to ignore Lyle; Lyle wouldn’t have the access he has now. It wouldn’t be worth it to jump the gun.
Apr 14th, 2009 (10:37 am)#30 francesco caggioni said:
“Here a Chevy Volt possible problem is reported: http://lemmingreviews.blogspot.com/2009/04/chevy-volt-engine-problem.html
Engine sitting for months without running (running on battery and recharge every night) will eventually be a bad thing for the engine.”
—————————————————
Any “reasonable” driver is going to drive periodically more than 40 miles. If nothing else, I would take mine out once or twice a month just to let the engine run some. I don’t see a problem here at all.
Apr 14th, 2009 (10:39 am)______________________________________________________
Lyle Said:
“I too had a test drive opportunity as well. GM though has placed an embargo on my experience and will not let me publish it until a certain number of journalists have had the chance.”
———–
That’s a huge compliment directed at Lyle. GM knows that Lyle’s report will render the other reports mutt.
Congratulations Lyle on the test drive! It represents another positive and tangible milestone.
______________________________________________________
Electric Cars + Nuclear Energy = American Energy Independence!
______________________________________________________
Apr 14th, 2009 (10:40 am)Not sure who BUT someone got to drive 2 of the mules on the regular roads. I seen 2 of the mules togeather on Hickory Ridge rd near the Proving grounds last week. I don’t remember what day. They were headed south back to the grounds from M59. I was going north but the mules were unmistakeable both were white.
Apr 14th, 2009 (10:42 am)Is it me or does it just make complete sense to allow mainstream media to, as we’ve said in the past “get the word out about the Volt”? No offense to Lyle and all he does for the Volt, but CNN et al have a huge viewership compared to GM-Volt.com.
Congrats Lyle. Can’t wait to read your article.
Apr 14th, 2009 (10:42 am)“totally quiet and vibration-free”
“zero-60…a little over eight seconds”
“quicker-than-ordinary response”
“performance comparable to a 250-horsepower V6″
— CNN
These are the tag lines that will SELL the VOLT.
GM needs to start the ad campaign immediately!
Apr 14th, 2009 (10:44 am)“Onward, forward, never backward.”
Peter Tosh
Apr 14th, 2009 (10:45 am)#34 Statik
Sounds just like something Lyle would write if he was drugged and taken to an undisclosed location and forced to write gagged and blind-folded. Or maybe you on your best of days. But, it was enjoyable. In a funny sort of way.
Apr 14th, 2009 (10:58 am)Yeeeeee HAaaawww…
Let’s Giter Done!!!
“Keep Moving Foreward…”
Lewis from Meet the Robinsons.
The ICEAge is over, Embrace the VoltAge.
I’ll take my Volt with No Generator, No ICE, ShAkEn not StirreD…
Apr 14th, 2009 (10:59 am)huh….
Getting moderated an I didn’t even put in a link?!?!?!
Apr 14th, 2009 (11:01 am)______________________________________________________
#48 Arch Said:
“http://www.wwj.com/VIDEO–Chevy-Volt-Test-Drive/4200141″
Take Care
Arch
———
The video interview on Arch’s above page link is very significant as follows:
Reporter asked Greg Cesiel (Volt Program Manager): “Are you confident this vehicle [Volt] will be on sale in 2010.
Cesiel Answered: “YES, we said we were going in production in November of 10 [2010] and that is what we plan to do so there will be vehicles available for sale at the end of next year.”
______________________________________________________
Electric Cars + Nuclear Energy = American Energy Independence!
______________________________________________________
Apr 14th, 2009 (11:03 am)#61 N Riley said:
#34 Statik
Sounds just like something Lyle would write if he was drugged and taken to an undisclosed location and forced to write gagged and blind-folded. Or maybe you on your best of days. But, it was enjoyable. In a funny sort of way.
———
It is a slow morning, didn’t have much to do, my son was still sleeping (after keeping my awake until 3 AM hopping on his bed), so I figured I’d blow some time here spinning a yarn…perhaps my sleep deprived state came through a bit there, lol.
==================
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#62 CaptJackSparrow said:
huh….
Getting moderated an I didn’t even put in a link?!?!?!
—–
Maybe you just need to have a more positive outlook like myself. (=
Apr 14th, 2009 (11:05 am)#30 francesco caggioni said:
“Here a Chevy Volt possible problem is reported: ”
So. If it goes bad bring it back to GM. Or don’t charge it everyday and let the ICE run a few miles.
Pick you Evils.
Apr 14th, 2009 (11:07 am)#64 Statik
So, that was your excuse. But, it was kinda funny. Hope the boy settles down tonight so you can get some sleep. Can’t have you spinning those kind of stories every day. I expect Lyle’s test drive story to be just as interesting, but not as funny.
Apr 14th, 2009 (11:09 am)dang moderation…
!@#$#$%^^*%^&
I think I need some more Kahlua in my coffee……
Apr 14th, 2009 (11:11 am)#59 CorvetteGuy – I agree with you completely.
I think GM is going to have much wider acceptance if they sell it on performance aspects and coolness factor instead of touting the “green” line. Don’t make it a “Treehugger” car. Wait until the last line to say “Oh by the way, did I mention it’s a 400 mile extended range electric vehicle?”.
#48 Arch – Thanks for the video link, loved it.
Lyle, OK that makes 2 journalists – can you post your test drive now?
Apr 14th, 2009 (11:16 am)TTAC has its ‘review’ of the CNN ‘review’ mentioned here…and Lyle gets a nod as well (albeit in a uninformed aside):
“Even as it heads for Chapter 11, GM isn’t giving up its plug-in hybrid Hail Mary electric – gas Chevrolet Volt without a fight. (If at all.) Turning its back on their number one fanboy, Dr. Lyle Dennis, GM PR has blessed CNNMoney Senior Shill– I mean auto writer, Peter Valdez-Depena with a drive in their Volt test mule. The bottom line: it moves. As for everything else—range, recharge time, “charge sustaining mode,” etc.—all we get is regurgitated prevarication and promises. Or, more musically, smoke gets in your mirrors. “The guts of the car were about 80% those of the final Chevy Volt, according to Vehicle Line Executive Frank Weber.” Did Depena even look under the hood? I would imagine not, as he took everything he was told on faith, and neglected to mention the fact that “old” GM will never build this machine. So, children, what did we learn today?”
There is more at the jump:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/volt-birth-watch-137-cnn-shills-for-chevy/
…still can’t wait for “GM’s number one fanboy, Dr. Lyle Dennis” to put his up. I’m sure he will get a fair-shake asessment from the fellows at TTAC hehe
(actually I like the writing over there to tell you the truth…no surprise I supposed, they are inherently glass half empty kind of guys too)
Apr 14th, 2009 (11:23 am)Congrats Lyle! Yes, they don’t want Lyle to overshadow the other reporters. I believe he knows more about the Volt than those other guys.
On the other side, perhaps Lyle found something and GM wants to fix it before his report. That would be ok too.
Also, Bob, thanks for that CNN report. Just can’t get enough of this stuff. I know this is minutia to some, but I REALLY liked the sound of the door closing! It shouted quality! It sounds silly, but, when I looked at the Malibu, which we know is a quality car, the door closing sound didn’t reverberate enough. -JMHO. and, feedback for GM!
But, for the record, I’m buying the car no matter what the door sounds like!
=D~~~~
Apr 14th, 2009 (11:24 am)“… GM though has placed an embargo on my experience and will not let me publish it …”
==============================
It’s a little bit unsettling to read this sentence.
Does GM place other limits on what’s presented here?
Apr 14th, 2009 (11:35 am)“… GM though has placed an embargo on my experience and will not let me publish it …”
#72 RB said: It’s a little bit unsettling to read this sentence.
Does GM place other limits on what’s presented here?
=======================
“It puts the lotion on…you have no idea what kind of hell I can bring you!”
“It puts the lotion on its skin…It does what its told”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdT7Vpc0uho
(Joe Dirt homage to Silience of the Lambs)
Apr 14th, 2009 (11:37 am)______________________________________________________
I read the CNN Volt Test article http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/autos/0903/gallery.chevrolet_volt_mule_drive/
3 times not being able to get over how overwhelmingly positive the article was towards the Volt test drive.
Where are you Steve Edsel Moore? Did you get a test drive?
______________________________________________________
Apr 14th, 2009 (11:56 am)LOL ! I can’t believe it…. I mentioned Axxwipe Alex Taylor III in my earlier post, and suddenly a Volt-bashing/ GM-bashing article magically appears:
http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/14/autos/taylor_electric.fortune/index.htm
Certainly seems to have a “statik” feel to it, eh? “Keeping it real” my arse!
Apr 14th, 2009 (11:59 am)“So, even factoring in the tax incentive, that puts the Volt in the range of an entry-level luxury car. It will certainly be the most expensive Chevrolet you can buy this side of a Corvette…”
Had a sinking feeling reading this. Not a good way to bring your company out of bankruptcy in the middle of a recession. This doesn’t sound good.
Here’s my suggestion, also make a 22K BEV version to compliment the expensive E-Rev version.
Apr 14th, 2009 (12:01 pm)I am convinced that the person who wrote the article is so out to lunch, he does not even understand what he just experienced.
“GM engineers are still tweaking the car’s performance under gasoline power…”
It will never be under gasoline power.
then he adds
“With a fully charged battery, the Chevrolet Volt will drive up to 40 miles exclusively on plug-in electric power. After that, if a driver wants to go farther, the 1.4-liter gasoline engine will turn on. Even then, the car will still be electrically-driven, but the electricity will be generated by the engine. GM calls that longer-range driving “charge sustaining mode” because the battery is kept partly charged…”
which would have been fine had he not finished the sentence with
“so that it can kick in when an extra jolt is needed for acceleration.”
If he meant what he wrote, he has a fundamental misunderstanding of the product he was allowed to drive.
Lyle correct me if I’m wrong, but there is no direct power connection between the ICE, and the wheels. The ICE powers the battery, and the electrons drive the wheels 100 percent, all the time.
Apr 14th, 2009 (12:02 pm)#72 RB says “Does GM place other limits on what’s presented here?”
Relax. It’s standard practice in ALL industries to embargo things like tests or information provided in advance of a public release. For an example you might be familiar with, camera companies give reviewers cameras in advance of release announcements, but the reviews can’t be published until the camera is officially announced. It’s just a way to manage publicity and there isn’t anything wrong with it. Even if you’re a private party you might have to sign an NDA. Happens thousands of times every day.
If you get the information in some other way than from the company then of course you can do with it whatever you want. But if the company helps you by giving you special access the price is that you have to abide by its embargo rules.
Apr 14th, 2009 (12:06 pm)#34 Statik
Lol, you should be a writer, that was great!
Stew
Apr 14th, 2009 (12:07 pm)#77 Eco says “It will never be under gasoline power.”
You are absolutely right that there is no direct connection between the engine and the wheels. However the question you have to answer is: Is the car gas powered if the gas engine powers a generator which powers a motor which turns the wheels. I’d say yes. Maybe you’d say no.
He’s also basically correct in that the battery is available to add power when the ICE, which is generating average power, wouldn’t supply sufficient power for a situation which demands peak power.
Apr 14th, 2009 (12:38 pm)#63 & #68 CaptJackSparrow:
The latest blog software includes attitude sensors. They know what you are thinking.
#64 CDAVIS:
Thank you. God send that it shall be true.
Some weeks ago President Obama gave a speech, which someone here (CDAVIS?, GaveG?, DonC?) quoted exactly. His words were to the effect that “soon thousands of plug-in hybrid cars will be pouring off of US assembly lines”. Maybe someone has the exact quote somewhere?
I surmise from that that one of the President’s main goals with this GM scenario is to salvage the Volt, and its descendants, out of the wreckage and GTVWOTR. It’s no leap from that to imagining him saying, “If we are going to front you all of these $Billions, make d****d sure that you meet your schedule of Fall 2010.” “Here’s the money, get it done or else.” History shows that these things are all possible, given the leadership and the resources.
I can imagine this saving oil, saving US jobs, and leading the rebirth of the US manufacturing sector as a shining beacon of world leadership.
Sorry to go all optimistic on you, but that’s my theory, and I’m sticking to it.
Apr 14th, 2009 (12:48 pm)WARNING: statik slap down aka “revenge of the optimists” follows!
We now have an even more interesting test drive.
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=12967878&ch=4226720&src=news
This is a test drive by Phil Lebeau of CNBC. It’s his second test drive, the first having been in January 2009. What makes this so interesting is that this allows him to gauge the improvement, or lack thereof, between January and now.
Not to kill the suspense but his conclusion is that the improvement has been dramatic. This is a complete slap down. Why? Because if statik were correct in claiming that GM stopped all development in Q3 2008, then obviously there could be no improvements during the the first quarter of 2009. But not only were there improvements, but those improvements were significant. So obviously development has continued, GM has not been blowing smoke, and the Volt is still on the schedule previously announced by GM.
What you do hear in the interviews is some tentativeness about the release date, not based on the technology, that everyone seems confident of, but in the financial situation. That seems reasonable. But in any case, hopefully we can stop with the “GM is doing nothing and can never release this car in 2010″ stuff.
Apr 14th, 2009 (12:51 pm)#64 CDAVIS
#48 Arch Said:
“http://www.wwj.com/VIDEO–Chevy-Volt-Test-Drive/4200141″
Take Care
Arch
———
The video interview on Arch’s above page link is very significant as follows:
Reporter asked Greg Cesiel (Volt Program Manager): “Are you confident this vehicle [Volt] will be on sale in 2010.
Cesiel Answered: “YES, we said we were going in production in November of 10 [2010] and that is what we plan to do so there will be vehicles available for sale at the end of next year.”
=======================
The other quote I thought was significant was that “they now know they can reach the goal of 40 miles AER”. That has been debated on this site quite a bit.
Apr 14th, 2009 (12:51 pm)Blah Blah Blah….
Yak Yak Yak…
Just build my Volt Dangit!!!
No Power Windows
No Power Adjust Seats
No Power Side view mirrors
No Power Sunroof (Actually No Sunroof at all)
No Power Door Locks
No Power Trunk lock
No Radio (Remember that fiasco? – Get an iPod)
No Heated Seats
No OnStar!!!
Make the garbage I listed, but another mans treasure, an “Upgrade” for those who want these creature comforts.
Standard Features:
4 Wheels
Highway Capable
AC
Heater
Defogger Front/Rear
The ICEAge is over, Embrace the VoltAge.
I’ll take my Volt with No Generator, No ICE, ShAkEn not StirreD…
Apr 14th, 2009 (12:52 pm)The ICEAge is over, Embrace the VoltAge!!
—
The ICEAge is over, Embrace the VoltAge!!
—-
The ICEAge is over, Embrace the VoltAge!!
—–
The ICEAge is over, Embrace the VoltAge!!
——
Apr 14th, 2009 (12:55 pm)#82 DonC
Your link is not a Volt story.
Apr 14th, 2009 (12:59 pm)81 Noel Park……. You said, “Sorry to go all optimistic on you, but that’s my theory, and I’m sticking to it.”
===========================================================================
….with all due respect (NONE is due, actually) to our resident “glass half full” guys (e.g., Static), Noel, your optimism is a breath of fresh air!!!
The two major technical breakthroughs America is famous for in the last century, 1) the Manhattan project to develop the atomic bomb and 2) the Apollo program to put men on another planet (the moon) were led by brilliant, energetic optimists —not pessimists! Keep your optimism coming, Noel!!!
Apr 14th, 2009 (1:08 pm)#80 DonC
Yes, at first I thought he was describing a PHEV Prius.
You are completely right, except for… I don’t believe the engine comes on for additional accelerator bursts. Otherwise, when within your 40 mile range, the engine would come on when you floor it (Lyle would know, but I don’t believe so).
And when in charge sustaining mode, if extra power is needed, the opposite happens. The battery will briefly kick in.
=D~~~~
Apr 14th, 2009 (1:11 pm)What a great day for us Volt heads! Good mainstream media coverage, the trolls are not out yet, and we learn that STATIC IS FUNNY when the mood strikes.
Apr 14th, 2009 (1:18 pm)#87 nasaman
…I digress
Speaking as an engineer, the “glass half full/empty” thing is not well thought out. While the glass geometry contains a fixed volume (at a given temperature and pressure), often a glass will contain a liquid that has some surface tension. If you fill a glass with water, for example, you will be able to add water above the rim of the glass because of surface tension. So, what volume are they talking about; the glass volume or the volume of liquid in a full glass? Also, how accurate are the measurements? Is a glass that appears half full/empty really half full/empty?
Apr 14th, 2009 (1:18 pm)#78 DonC –> I understand about corporations. I am a part of one.
I have not asked for anything to be changed.
But I still would like to know the answer to my question.
“Does GM place other limits on what’s presented here?”
Apr 14th, 2009 (1:25 pm)Drats! Can’t do it that way. So go here:
http://search.cnbc.com/main.do?target=all&keywords=phil%20lebeau
On the far right side there is a list of videos. Fourth one down: Electrifying the Ride from April 14th.
Apr 14th, 2009 (1:29 pm)@ThombDbhomb 92
“So, what volume are they talking about; the glass volume or the volume of liquid in a full glass? Also, how accurate are the measurements? Is a glass that appears half full/empty really half full/empty?”
You forgot to ask if the volume they are asking for is air as well. But because the question is always vague the glas is never empty no matter how you analyze it because it is always either full of something, patly containing something and air or all air so the glass it never empty.
However, if you ask if my beef is half empty or half full, then if it is not full to the rim with beer it is always empty so please fill it up!
Apr 14th, 2009 (1:32 pm)#91 RB
My guess is no. If there is something they don’t want Lyle to talk about they simply do not tell him except in the most general of terms. based on Lyle not talking about his opportunity to drive tells me that he is a man of his word and of integrity. Hense if he were constantly gagged I believe he would have said that GM was restricting his site and might have shut it down for a short amount of time to get GM to see things his way.
Apr 14th, 2009 (1:33 pm)Is the glass half full or half empty?
Engineering answer:
The glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
Apr 14th, 2009 (1:40 pm)The reviewer states that the $32,500 Volt would be “the most expensive Chevy this side of a Corvette.” He is absolutely correct… as long as you ignore the Avalanche, Traverse, Camaro (loaded), Silverado Hybrid, Suburban, and Tahoe. Other than that, he is spot-on.
Apr 14th, 2009 (1:42 pm)#93 CaptJackSparrow
“…the glass it never empty”
Please be considerate of nasaman…what if the glass was in a vacuum or shaken/stirred in a zero-G environment?
Apr 14th, 2009 (1:43 pm)#92 DonC
That did it! I watched it. I WANT A VOLT!
Apr 14th, 2009 (1:48 pm)#83 k-dawg
Cesiel Answered: “YES, we said we were going in production in November of 10 [2010] and that is what we plan to do so there will be vehicles available for sale at the end of next year.”
=======================
The other quote I thought was significant was that “they now know they can reach the goal of 40 miles AER”. That has been debated on this site quite a bit.
—————————————-
In additon, Cesiel stated “What we’ve really learned is that we can meet the performance targets that we’ve been talking about”.
This suggests to me not only can they achieve 40 miles AER, but that they also can get 50 mpg in charge sustaining mode, and go 0 to 60 in less than 8.5 seconds (as stated in the CNN test drive). Another target would be top speed of 100 mph.
Again, all positive news.
Apr 14th, 2009 (2:03 pm)Re;
“GM though has placed an embargo on my experience and will not let me publish it until a certain number of journalists have had the chance.”
Which just goes to show that GM don’t QUITE get it yet… aka. the internet, especially blogs/websites like this one, can be at least as important for their product in many respects as CNN and Regis can be.
I could write an essay on their shotgun approach via mainstream media vs. targeted websites that cater to diehards like here, but for one thing – consider where CNN and Regis viewers will go if they’re interested to learn more about the Volt…
A: Google and eventually here.
…so wouldn’t it be nice to be able to cement the authority of this site by allowing him to feature a 1st person review of the mule? Particularly since consumers are inherently skeptical of mainstream media or company messages when compared to the opinion of consumers (ie another “regular Joe”).
I’m not saying they shouldn’t go for mainstream media exposure, because they should. But this is where the conversions and excitement will happen.
- Steve
Apr 14th, 2009 (2:30 pm)As an Engineer, I have always thought and posted that achieving 50 mpg in charge sustaining mode would be a piece of cake, to achieve. The battery AER was the question.
I am amazed at al the cynics out there. They have been so brainwashed to be self-loathing Americans about anyone and everything that they cannot see the forest from the trees.
A small 1.4 liter I-4 tuned for it’s optimum fuel economy, probably running Atkinson cycle, at a certain constant rpm and then run at that designed optimum point for 99% of the time is certainly able to achieve a fuel economy perhaps twice “normal”. Normal being defined what a 1.4 liter engine run at all different rpms some of which are very far from it most economical running point consume,serving as a prime mover of a vehicle. Most A and B segment cars with such powerplants routinely achieve mileage figures in the 30-40s mpg range. So doubling that would produce 60-80 mpg.
Downgrading for lots of cold operation, and a “break-in” period that may extend for a year or two, and you get 50+ mpg, easily.
Apr 14th, 2009 (2:32 pm)****THREADJACK****
Discussions of the Volt and other electric vehicles on this site frequently turn to alternative sources of electricity. In that spirit:
Solar electricity heads in a new direction; UP:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2009/04/14/MN7S171PSL.DTL
Too soon?
****THREADJACK ENDS****
Apr 14th, 2009 (2:33 pm)#100
You are 100% spot on. GM simply does not get it. Old media, reporters, controlled information blah blah, is dead. They should be releasing the Volt on blogs, social networks, creating viral videos etc. Thats the way to get buzz for new products, not CNN journalists. That might have working in 1990, but not 2009.
Apr 14th, 2009 (2:35 pm)GM is being nice to the working press. The reporters who took test drives have to make a living and being “scooped” by a fan site wouldn’t sit too well with the reporters.
Does GM restrict what is posted here? Not normally, we can all say whatever we want within the bounds of good taste. Did they restrict what Lyle could say about his test drive? Yes. But that falls into the category of “I’ll tell you a secret if you don’t tell anyone before I say you can”. If you can’t agree, than I won’t tell you the secret. Other than controlling access to information, GM has no control over what is said on this site.
The press has been living with this kind of restriction on their sources of information forever. If a reporter blabs information that was given on background, they won’t get anybody to talk to them again.
Apr 14th, 2009 (2:39 pm)Eco and George K: RE: per CNN: “the battery is kept partly charged, so that it can kick in when an extra jolt is needed for acceleration.”
I hope CNN’s reporting is correct. I have been hoping that the Volt would be able to do exactly that. It would be great to have electricity from both the engine and battery available for acceleration, coupled with an electric motor that can apply all of that electricity.
I would like to have a switch that would allow a driver to select “Power” mode, “Eco” mode and maybe “Standard” mode. I remember Bob Lutz once saying that 0-60 acceleration would be around 5-6 seconds, but then an official GM statement was released squelching that and saying 8.5-9 seconds. I am hoping Lutz was right, because if the Volt can do 0-60 in 6 seconds, it will have performance buyers interested (and I have to admit I like fast acceleration myself). I think I would mostly use “Eco” mode, but I would love to have the “Power” option.
Here’s a personal observation: I went to the Philadelphia car show last year, and checked out the Volt display: hardly a soul was to be found near the Volt mockup. However, 50 feet away there was a 620HP Corvette ZR1 on display with a large, excited, mob of people around it.
GM, are you listening?
Apr 14th, 2009 (2:41 pm)If we are talking about whether or not the glass appears half full or half empty, do not fail to take into account the fact that the speed of light drops as it travels through a denser transparent medium. This produces the illusion of light bending, or “refracting,” which may give an inaccurate impression of the actual water level.
Apr 14th, 2009 (2:41 pm)Jackson @ 102
I’m afraid we’re a long way off for Spaced Based Solar Power…cost being the primary issue.
Apr 14th, 2009 (2:51 pm)#87 nasaman:
Many thanks for your kind words. It means a lot, coming from you.
When you put the Volt, or the Voltec revolution, in the context of the Manhattan Project or the a Apollo project, it starts to seem very doable.
The Manhattan Project essentially went from zero to functioning “device” in what, 5 years? It involved construction of giant facilities at Hanford, Oak Ridge, Savannah River, Los Alamos, White Sands, and who knows where else. The idea of sending men to the moon with the technology available in the early ’60s was terrifying and overwhelming to many of us. And yet these things were done.
Considering your thought provoking comment, I would submit that Voltec could have an impact on our country which would approach either of the above. In today’s geopolitical climate, pulling back our oil consumption, as we have discussed so many times here, would have profound implications, both military and economic. And all in a peaceful and productive way.
If FDR could have the courage and the leadership to order the Manhattan project, which arguably saved the lives of millions of allied soldiers, and JFK could have the courage and the leadership to bring about the “great step for mankind”, then I believe that BHO can have the courage and the leadership to dramatically reduce our energy consumption, and make our country a more sustainable, safer, and more prosperous place.
Apr 14th, 2009 (2:58 pm)#103 *High Five*
#104
re: “The reporters who took test drives have to make a living and being “scooped” by a fan site wouldn’t sit too well with the reporters.”
I agree that’s likely their perception, but if this website posted a drive test review, who would know..? Just us: the people already hot for the Volt.
Who else? Perhaps viewers who saw the brief coverage on CNN and Regis and decide they want to know more.. and subsequently arrive here.
So CNN et al have nothing to fear, imo.
And additionally, although I suppose GM has the “right” to ask for a delay in reporting their ride review here (in exchange for the privilege of getting a sneak peek), it rubs me the wrong way that only HE is being asked to hold off while the mainstream press is given free reign to report immediately.
Re:”The press has been living with this kind of restriction on their sources of information forever.”
That’s true – often press releases will have a ‘release’ date on them, or otherwise media is given a scoop but asked to hold off reporting it until a specific date/time…
But again – this blog owner is being restricted, not everyone.
They can call the shots – at least as long as long as Lyle wants to have a good relationship with GM (otherwise he could just go ahead and post his review and nothing they could do about it) – but it’s old school for them to do so.
The future is the internet. And the future is now. GM is having a tough enough time now because of their stubborness in doing things the old way (for a long time, not just in recent years), so perhaps it’s time for them to get ahead of the curve instead of doing things the way they’ve always been done.
Just my opinion and dissenting ones are appreciated too.
Apr 14th, 2009 (3:04 pm)Ugh . . . can’t they accelerate the production of the damn car. Lots of buyers are waiting, tax credits are waiting to be claimed. Ramp it up, Mo-fos!
Apr 14th, 2009 (3:07 pm)The Volt sure sounds like it’s really close, but really, we still have well over a year!!!!! UGH!
Apr 14th, 2009 (3:09 pm)Lyle,
Sounds like they want the big shots (CNN, FOX, C&D, etc…) to get their chance to be “first” because they might not bother with a story that’s old. They are trying to kiss up to their biggest potential audiences.
Just wait for GM to go belly up in exactly 46 days. The old GM will be gone and you will have no obligations under the old gag order.
Sounds like the one thing holding the Volt back now is the same thing Ford warned of a few months ago. Charge sustaining mode.
Apr 14th, 2009 (3:09 pm)#108 nasaman
Soaring and thought provoking comment. It’s kind of like “Yes, we can”. But the real question always comes down to “But will we?”.
Apr 14th, 2009 (3:16 pm)Is it not significant that the article mentions that the Cruze will be out next year? I thought it wouldn’t be here until a year or two later.
Depending on quality, cost to build and mpg (with just ICE and transmission), this could have an immediate, positive effect on GM’s bottom line.
Many of us won’t be able to get a Volt until GM brings out Gen II in 2015, so they have to survive until then; with or without GSB. And by the way, isn’t that later than was first reported for Gen II?
Apr 14th, 2009 (3:16 pm)You have to realize that GM is so used to asking opinions of the very people who are want to cut their throats at the very first opportunity. Makes you think that companies and people who “act” this way really have a death wish down deep. Why go to you worst critics all the time? Sometimes that might work, but you darn better be showing them a piece of technology that you know will wow them. The Volt can be that technology and so far it has had overall good comments from the test drivers. I still don’t really understand GM wanting to keep Lyle quiet. Maybe someone from GM could enlighten us. If they want to respond to a group containing some of their best supporters (and critics) this is the place to come to. So, what is up, GM?
Apr 14th, 2009 (3:18 pm)#82 DonC said:
WARNING: statik slap down aka “revenge of the optimists” follows!
We now have an even more interesting test drive.
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=12967878&ch=4226720&src=news
This is a test drive by Phil Lebeau of CNBC. It’s his second test drive, the first having been in January 2009. What makes this so interesting is that this allows him to gauge the improvement, or lack thereof, between January and now.
Not to kill the suspense but his conclusion is that the improvement has been dramatic. This is a complete slap down. Why? Because if statik were correct in claiming that GM stopped all development in Q3 2008, then obviously there could be no improvements during the the first quarter of 2009. But not only were there improvements, but those improvements were significant. So obviously development has continued, GM has not been blowing smoke, and the Volt is still on the schedule previously announced by GM.
==============================
Nice try.
I said the only thing that was still going on was ‘engineers fiddling around trying to look busy’. I think tweeking a mule for several months and having a reporter noticing it drives better, falls in this category.
The Q3 board meeting stopped the production of mules dead in their tracks (rather than production through Christmas) and canceled the engine plant….today we still have the same number of mules, and no ‘hard improvements’ at all that involve the expenditure of serious cash….only critical employee retention.
/of course I expected the engineers on staff to continue to do what they do, lol. I wasn’t saying they all put their feet up and have just been playing cards for six months.
Since when is having a mule you have been working on for 9 months working almost the way you intended to a success anyway?
/reverse pwnage
Apr 14th, 2009 (3:20 pm)#109 “But again – this blog owner is being restricted, not everyone.”
As I alluded to earlier, I suspect that GM considers this a fan site and not news outlet. I suspect that more people saw the Regis & Kelly or the CNBC & CNN stories than have ever visited this site. If a major new outlet thinks that the story is no longer news they won’t run it and a lot of free exposure could be lost. I’m just trying to put on a GM hat and figure out what their thinking is. It’s all just conjecture on my part. I don’t know anything official.
We don’t know if Lyle is the only person who got a test drive and has been asked not to talk about it. There may be others.
I agree that viral marketing and other internet based conduits should be an important part of GM marketing plan. Heck, I don’t know for sure that this site isn’t part of one. Probably not, but you never know.
Apr 14th, 2009 (3:20 pm)102 Jackson
======
If it only puts out 1/5 the power of sunlight, how is this an improvement?
Also, I understand the benefit of collecting sunlight in space due to higher energy concentration, but if you still have to beam it through the atmosphere, wouldn’t you lose that advantage?
I guess they need to release more details for me to understand their design.
Apr 14th, 2009 (3:25 pm)#75-Guido. Indeed . . . WTF is with Alex Taylor III? He says Asia is ahead but then mentions the Prius? The Prius is not an electric car . . . it is a hybrid. You can say the Prius is a better/cheaper car . . . but it is not really an electric car.
And then he displays huge ignorance by bring up laptop battery fires when virtually no one uses the old lithium-cobalt laptop style batteries in cars anymore. (The exception being Tesla that designed their car long before new li-ion chemistry batteries came available and they engineered a super-complex battery management system to deal with the issue.)
The guy is lucky people can’t comment on his article because more informed people would rip him a new a-hole.
Apr 14th, 2009 (3:27 pm)17 ZIV:
0 to 60 in 8 seconds is awesome for a car geared toward fuel economy. I just checked Edmunds.com for their last test of a Toyota Prius (2008 model). It took 10.5 seconds to hit 60. Everybody raves about the Prius but in reality its’s a miserable, ugly narrow little bad handling car that does only 1 thing very well.
I’m not a Prius basher. I almost bought one back in 04 when I was driving 60,000 miles a year but I wasn’t willing to wait 4 months and pay above retail. I wouldn’t do that for a date with super-model. But regardless, the Volt is a much much more livable and enjoyable car from what I see.
Apr 14th, 2009 (3:29 pm)P.S. Lyle
Can’t wait to read your report. It should be more ‘fair and balanced’ than anything coming from a CNN hack who probably rides a 25 year old rust bucket city bus to work every day.
Apr 14th, 2009 (3:29 pm)The EV component of the volt is relatively simple, any shop can do it given a battery and a motor. What is really interesting is to see how the battery couples with the engine and what happens to the cars performance after that. There comes a real inovation. So far we have yet to see that confirmed by the independent party. This is what the volt technology is all about. So, lets wait and see the “real” test drive.
Apr 14th, 2009 (3:32 pm)As for marketing, GM has a huge marketing department, who knows a lot more about marketing than us here on this website. I think GM is focusing on products it has for sale now. Why waste a huge amount of $, that they dont have, on advertising for a car thats not for sale, when you have lots full of cars now? The timing is just not right. Wait for major advertising in Nov. 2010 ,if even then, because they only will sell 10,000. At that point, those 10,000 will do the advertising for the next 60,000. Minimal advertising that you see now for the Volt I believe is for the GM image, and to let people know they are cutting edge tech (and also green).
Apr 14th, 2009 (3:39 pm)#82 DonC said:
“So obviously development has continued, GM has not been blowing smoke, and the Volt is still on the schedule previously announced by GM.”
So what you are saying is GM wanted/scheduled to be in the ‘mule stage’ from March of 2008 to July of 2009 and still be ‘tweeking it’? For 16 months.
Then in the next 16 months, thir plan is to create the first prototype, make a mock line, create a production intent test fleet, actually assign out a contract to produce batteries to LG, give out 99.9% of the 3rd party contracts, then be finally be able to order the final fabrication of machines, clear out the old crap/ rebuild a entire assembly line in Hamtramck, while training up the employees and training all the dealer techs to be able to service these cars.
I don’t even know how you can contemplate them being on schedule. You have been here all along, you know all the deadlines they have missed.
Here are the facts:
We are over two years in and we a few Cruze mules that are still not working as intended, but working ‘better’. Remember the media mule test drives from a year ago last Easter? And where are we now? Media mule test drives.
Apr 14th, 2009 (3:42 pm)Well, it looks like Ford is designing a plug-in hybrid after all.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=conewsstory&refer=conews&tkr=GM%3AUS&sid=aVCBaLwjo4xg
Apr 14th, 2009 (3:45 pm)Gentlemen , don’t be too freaked out by Lyle not posting his feelings and opinions on his test drive .
Don’t kid yourself , GM knows that most of us are technologically wise and enthusiasts for the development and production of this advanced technology .
Lyle probably pointed out something that no other reporter pointed out and quietly asked GM what they were going to do or if they were aware of a condition .
GM may have had a feeling about it and was glad that Lyle pointed it out to them and they want to address it before Lyle does his report , Don’t worry GM takes Lyle very serious and things he suggests will make the Volt a better car .
Lyle more than anybody knows what we want and expect , much more than any reporter . Lyle knows that is in everybody’s interest to keep quiet for awhile so a fix or adjustment can be done.
Trust him .
Apr 14th, 2009 (3:47 pm)#109 Steve:
I’d thinking of the possibility that GM asked to Lyle to hold off reporting his test drive because he was given much more “test drive” than the other reporters. Maybe they let him drive it until the ICE kicked in, or let him drive it out of the test grounds for the rest of the afternoon after the other reporters were gone. Who knows?
It is great to see the Volt in mainstream media. I look forward to, like the CNBC reporter said, more journalist test drives every 6 months. Hopefully that will include Lyle as well.
Apr 14th, 2009 (3:59 pm)Guys, I think CNN and the other maintstream media folks get the first release of the Volt story because they got the “big bucks” and have a large audience.
These outfits show up with a reporter, a camera man, and most likely at least one technician. Their audience is in the millions.
Lyle probably can’t afford his own camera man, crew, and satellite linkup. However, with his knowledge and background, he won’t make stupid comments like the car is electrically driven for 40 miles until the battery gets low and then the engine takes over (like one reporter).
He will ask more informed questions, and hopefully get more truthful answers.
I got more information from the VoltNation event last year than I could ever hope to get from the mainstream media. Thanks to Lyle for making such a great event possible. Just like with Corvette and other products, GM will not forget the enthusiasts!!
Apr 14th, 2009 (4:04 pm)#107, #118 and others who followed my link at #102:
Peter Glaser first suggested in the 1960s that placing large satellites in orbit would be a dandy way to make clean electricity, but didn’t describe a way of putting them up. It was definitely Pie in the Sky, something on a par with Leonardo Davinci’s drawings of a helicopter.
In the 1980′s, Princeton Physicist Gerard K. O’Neil suggested satellite-based solar power based on manufacturing the materials already in space (notably lunar soil), as a challenge to his class; and was surprised by the results. The result was the Space Studies Institute. Among other things, the first electromagnetic “Mass Driver” (which later came to be called a “coil gun”) was one of the research projects. The “Beam Builder” we’ve seen deploying trusses on the Space Station was another. In 1984, he wrote a book describing a future in which Space Manufacturing Facilities have become practical: “2084, a Hopeful View of the Human Future,” at a time that most futurism was decidedly dystopian.
I have no idea how the linked proposal is supposed to work, but based solely on this 30 year old research, the Satellite Solar Power Station (“SSPS”) would convert sunlight to electricity, and beam it to Earth via low-density microwaves. A large “rectenna” on Earth would have to be carefully tuned to the orbiting transmitter in order to receive this energy and turn it into direct current.
The comment about the sun putting five times the power onto an airliner verses the microwave beam doubtless refers to the entire solar spectrum; heat, light, UV, the works; the beam represents the result of a very precise and specific conversion.
The consensus has been “way off in the future” ever since the idea was first suggested. My comment in #102, “too soon?” sort of underscores that.
I just found it interesting that anyone could be seriously considering it now (especially since they appear to have gone back to the expensive direct-launch from Earth idea).
Apr 14th, 2009 (4:18 pm)Don’t push Lyle so far for more information on his test drive, I suspect he already regrets saying as much as he has. I’m glad he got his ride, hope he gets one in an integration version, and look forward to reading his impressions.
Apr 14th, 2009 (4:21 pm)Nasaman #87
“The two major technical breakthroughs America is famous for in the last century, 1) the Manhattan project to develop the atomic bomb and 2) the Apollo program to put men on another planet (the moon) were led by brilliant, energetic optimists —not pessimists! Keep your optimism coming, Noel!!! ”
I thought we did pretty good with the IC and the WWW thingy too.
Apr 14th, 2009 (4:22 pm)NA, NA, NA, NA….NA, NA, NA, NA
Lyle drives
Apr 14th, 2009 (4:25 pm)#30.
“Engine sitting for months”.
*********
NOT
*********
at all a problem whatsoever with the superior fuel injection systems which GM produces. I mean, 100 percent NO PROBLEM with the outstanding fuel injection systems that GM has been producing for the last 19 years.
Case in point:
My 7.4 liter Chevrolet 454 CID V-8 in my very old Winnebago Brave (a 1991 P-30 chassis) has the two-injector “Throttle-body” simple fuel injection system which has run flawlessly for the last 19 years with just simple maintenance parts which are very easily installed ( and VERY inexpensive from AC Delco).
The grade of gasoline, however, DOES make the biggest difference in keeping the gas tank clean (by keeping it full at the “click-off” with what is known as a “top-tier” gasoline, so that it does not “breathe-in” as much moist air at night from slight day-night thermal expansion and contraction.
I always use Shell 87, and, recommend to all my shops (104 trained so far in advanced diagnostics), to seriously advise their customers to use that exact fuel. The 454 sits sometimes for 9 months without starting up (the solar array keeps all batteries at 100 percent SOC). But when I do crank it over, it fires up EXACTLY as it ought to, as consistently as is possible, just as when it was brand new.
For your Volt, I would highly recommend the same gasoline. If you are going to use very little fuel over a long period of time, the other reason why 87 octane is required for the RV 7.4L engine (and the Onan 4 kilowatt generator), is that there is LESS IN the fuel to separate out and cause sludge. Most folks think that a premium fuel is a good thing in most cases, but, if you are storing an ICE for a long time, if GM specifies only an 87 octane “top tier” fuel to be used in your Voltec vehicle, I would very highly recommend Shell for it and nothing else at all. If GM does not want you to put additives in the fuel tank, then don’t do it…EVER.
My confidence level in having a Voltec vehicle is based on the 38 years that I have been servicing GM vehicles (as well as all the other designs), and, also, since 1983, writing and teaching advanced training curricula regarding the exceptional reliabilities and the perfected industry-standards for which GM is known globally.
Dan Petit Austin TX
Apr 14th, 2009 (4:26 pm)#124 statik
OK. So dramatic improvements can now be accomplished by a few eingineers “fiddling around”. I should be so lucky as to employ those guys — my engineers eat up lots of time and sometimes don’t produce any improvements, let alone dramatic improvements. Basically having “engineers fiddling around” is the heart of development, and if that fiddling delivers dramatic improvements it would seem quite the stretch to argue that nothing is happening and the project has been put on hold.
But let’s ask this question: what If the production intent car shows up on schedule in summer? That would be determinative because all the parts used in this car would have been manufactured by the supply chain, which would by definition be more than having engineers on staff fiddle around.
I realize the Volt may not show up in November of 2010. But if that happens it’s not going to be because there weren’t enough mules on the road today or because the development process is already behind schedule. We can deduce this from the fact that if the Volt was indeed behind schedule GM would not be scheduling periodic test drives and test drive updates. They’d be like Mitsubishi, giving vague production numbers without any certain production dates.
Apr 14th, 2009 (4:27 pm)#125 BillR Says:
Well, it looks like Ford is designing a plug-in hybrid after all.
————————————————————————————–
I stumbled across this link today while trying to see if there was any new info on the Ford/Magna BEV. I own a Ford Escape Hybrid so am familiar with their Hybrid set-up. A Plug-In Escape (or Fusion)Hybrid or the Pure BEV (I already have an “extended range” Hybrid for long trips) may be an option instead of a Volt. Since there looks to be more options to choose from by the time a Volt is really available to purchase, the EREV vs BEV vs PHEV decision will have to be decided based on cost, availability, and features/performance. It will be an interesting decision when I get the opportunity.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/9983454/Ford-Electrified-Overview
Apr 14th, 2009 (4:27 pm)I demand that this car have an iPod control module interface !
GM can put all control apps on the Apple App Store for distribution.
You can do this GM. Get it done.
No iPod. No Sale.
NINS
Apr 14th, 2009 (4:33 pm)#125 BillR said:
Well, it looks like Ford is designing a plug-in hybrid after all.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=conewsstory&refer=conews&tkr=GM%3AUS&sid=aVCBaLwjo4xg
====================
Thanks for the link Bill, I knew they were making a full BEV, but had not heard any specifics on the battery site or costing.
As a side note: A 200 million dollar investment today (+150 million in tax incentives) to get a specific factory in Holland Michigan up and running (plans in the final approval stage) for supply of batteries in 2012….now that sounds like the right lead time. Three years+ from that point …not 19 months from not even started.
Apr 14th, 2009 (4:34 pm)#34 statik
Hey man you blew the embargo!..little do you know though I edited the bit about the dew.
Thanks for the laugh.
Apr 14th, 2009 (4:38 pm)WOHOOOOO!!!!
That is all.
Apr 14th, 2009 (4:48 pm)GM must
*******************************************************
ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS,
******************************************************
do as much test driving as is possible short of running the test vehicles 24 hours a day. There are some physics regarding a daily dormancy in order to simulate real world conditions far more accurately. NOT doing relentless longitudinal field studies in this way would be sheer irresponsibility, no matter how “perfect” anyone thinks or “tests” that anything is. The other reason why you must relentlessly test is that you want to get as far along test-time-wise and mileage-wise as you possibly can. There really is no vacation for testing anyway, since, if you can get the equivalent of 15 years of driving (for one of the measures of wear) in “clock hours”, then you must always do that with as many systems in as many conditions and seasons/temperatures.
In addition, what if you have a design that is going to last 500,000 miles, such as brake pads, since you have regeneration? If there is a better and lighter design that would get you 300,000 miles instead, then you would want to save the 48 bucks to have GM do that instead of paying an extra $1.23 a month in your payment for something you would never use. These are some of the reasons that a very large OEM with exceptional testing staff will make the very finest of EREV technologies.
If there was anyone “fiddling around” they would not have been hired in the first place, much less kept on the payroll nowadays.
Dan Petit Austin TX.
Apr 14th, 2009 (4:53 pm)DonC #134
Generally I’m with you on the “half full” side and I do agree there is a little more to the advancing of the mules than Statik is giving credit. But, the Volt is the goose that’s laying the golden egg for GM right now. If they aren’t in the financial situation with 45 something days to bankruptcy and about to extend their hand again, then I agree the test drives mean a LOT. Unfortunately they are in this situation and these drives smack a little more of politicking than bragging.
“But let’s ask this question: what If the production intent car shows up on schedule in summer? That would be determinative because all the parts used in this car would have been manufactured by the supply chain, which would by definition be more than having engineers on staff fiddle around.”
Begrudgingly, I have to disagree here too. The production intent speaks nothing about who made the parts. It just means the designs are nearly frozen and the parts are built to the “production intent” specs. They may or may not be built by the eventual suppliers and they certainly are not hard tooled parts. That said, if GM does get the production intent vehicles built when they said they would be and numbers close to those given, even Statik with blow kudos their way. That will be a significant milestone.
As far as other work not being done that Statik was hammering on. I recall a poster that had direct knowledge about production equipment to be used on the Volt line saying that they have been doing work and the timetable still OK. This was a couple of months ago, so that may have slipped but there have been other hints of things being done that run counter to some of Statik’s comments.
Apr 14th, 2009 (5:27 pm)statik #34: hahaha! But you really have too much time on your hands….
Apr 14th, 2009 (5:45 pm)I think the engineers at G M have plenty to do regarding the Volt. Start with calculating exactly what components are needed regarding size, where to mount each part. design and computer test fixtures,dies,molds,tooling,computer design and intagrate your Q C systems and manufacturing. Find potential production bottlenecks and material handling systems. then there is the personal visits to potential suppliers to verify their manufacturing capibilitys and Q C standards will meet GM’s
All of this can be done now so when their viability plan is accepted and they get the 10+ billion to build the Volt they will be ready to go full force
Apr 14th, 2009 (5:46 pm)It is late in the thread…
“Neil Young recently released his latest album ‘Fork in the Road,’ which is dedicated to the Lincvolt project that transformed his classic Lincoln Continental into a hot zero emissions vehicle that gets 100mpg”
They made a “series hybrid.”
http://www.lincvolt.com/
Apr 14th, 2009 (6:26 pm)This is a happy day! Lyle gets his VOLT experience and we get to read other reporters views before they copy Lyle’s report from this web site.
Reading that the extra heavy batteries makes the mule feel like a Cadillac is fine with me. I will miss my Eldo when it gets recycled, but if the VOLT feels like that, then I am ready to write the check (after the reorganization.)
Imagine the faster performance when the battery packs get lighter. Losing twenty or thirty pounds by dieting between now and November 2010 will help too.
The 4/14/09 “Nightly Business Report” on PBS features a news piece about the VOLT. Diane Eastabrook is in the driver’s seat of the Chevrolet Volt, GM’s new plug-in electric car due out next year. See the video here:
http://www.pbs.org/nbr/index.html
On 4/15, you should be able to access the transcript from here:
http://www.pbs.org/nbr/info/search.html?q=onair+%22April+14%2C+2009%22
Apr 14th, 2009 (6:36 pm)The PBS video about the VOLT starts about 18:15 into the program. Use the pop up video player and click on the scroll bar.
http://www.pbs.org/nbr/index.html
The 4/14/09 video will be available for a couple of weeks. The pop up player will allow you to access previous programs.
The original video is in HD.
Apr 14th, 2009 (6:37 pm)#140 Dan Petit Says, “… If there was anyone “fiddling around” they would not have been hired in the first place, much less kept on the payroll nowadays.”
I agree. Engineering is where scientific theory meats reality. We start with calculations and simulations, but that is far from the end of the design cycle. We then need to run many tests, find the “non-ideal characteristics”, refine the design, and repeat.
It might seem like “fiddling around” to some (Banjo pickers?), but it is why the products that you buy have only a few bugs, rather than a few hundred.
Apr 14th, 2009 (6:40 pm)#124 statik says
Then in the next 16 months, their plan is to create the first prototype, make a mock line, create a production intent test fleet, actually assign out a contract to produce batteries to LG, give out 99.9% of the 3rd party contracts, then be finally be able to order the final fabrication of machines, clear out the old crap/ rebuild an entire assembly line in Hamtramck, while training up the employees and training all the dealer techs to be able to service these cars.
———————————————————
It will be a fairly busy 16 months.
Apr 14th, 2009 (7:00 pm)#113 N Riley:
“We had d**ned well better!”
#131 Koz:
D**ned right!
Apr 14th, 2009 (7:00 pm)#138 Lyle said:
“statik. Hey man you blew the embargo!..little do you know though I edited the bit about the dew.
Thanks for the laugh.”
============================
…I aim to please.
As you know, anytime you need to “pepper” up a thread, I am at your disposal my friend, lol.
Apr 14th, 2009 (7:14 pm)143 old man
Well GM. may have a lot of work to do but I don’t honestly see where it would be different than any other product. It’s still a car. It has 4 wheels, 4 doors, 6 windows, headlights, tail lights, all the components that make up any other car. It still has a gasoline engine, engine computer, fuel pump, cruise control, etc etc. The electric components and battery, automated controls that allow the engine to charge the battery when it needs it are the new stuff and it sounds like they have a good handle on the ‘new stuff’.
Otherwise its just another car, GM, Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Subaru, Kia, Hyundai, MB, BMW, VW, all produce at least 1 completely new model every 18 months or so. Designing a new model is what they do, its who they are and just because this car has a new style powertrain shouldn’t change the amount of work they need to do for the rest of the design.
Apr 14th, 2009 (7:21 pm)The CNN article itself seemed to me to have a positive spirit, with an upbeat “something good is happening out there” tone to it. It did mention issues with steering but then explained them away.
However, the following paragraph gave me some unease
For these test laps, I was running with a fully charged battery. That meant I wasn’t able to test the “charge sustaining mode.” GM engineers are still tweaking the car’s performance under gasoline power, said Tony Posawatz, vehicle line director for the Volt, so they weren’t ready to have outsiders test that yet.
The reason I was uneasy about the need to avoid letting the reporter try ICE mode was that I had imagined that mode as being the closest link of the Volt to time-tested technology and for that reason likely to be relatively perfected by this time. Now I realize otherwise.
Of course mules are only that — cars set up to test something. They are not prototypes, and not anywhere close to the polish of production or even pre-production vehicles. I’m sure a lot can be done with suspension and handling once the drivetrain gets into the final car.
But if the mule is that far away, why is it being driven by outsiders at all? My only guess is that GM is really really eager for some news and reviews with a positive flavor, and willing to use the mules for whatever they can get out of them. Nothing wrong with that, and I hope it works out well. Seems a little desperate though.
Apr 14th, 2009 (7:32 pm)#134 DonC said:
But let’s ask this question: what If the production intent car shows up on schedule in summer? That would be determinative because all the parts used in this car would have been manufactured by the supply chain, which would by definition be more than having engineers on staff fiddle around.
I realize the Volt may not show up in November of 2010. But if that happens it’s not going to be because there weren’t enough mules on the road today or because the development process is already behind schedule. We can deduce this from the fact that if the Volt was indeed behind schedule GM would not be scheduling periodic test drives and test drive updates. They’d be like Mitsubishi, giving vague production numbers without any certain production dates.
=====================================
Sure lets use their schedule as our guide….only the schedule you are talking about is the one they just made off the top of their heads a couple weeks ago. Lets go back in time to remember the oldies but goodies:
GM Reiterates 2010 Target Launch Date/ Working Prototype By End of 2007
—”An interesting NEW fact is that a full running prototype is due out by the end of this year!! Any takers?”
http://gm-volt.com/2007/03/06/gm-reiterates-2010-target-launch-date/
Then we have this chestnut from June of 2008:
—”The Chevy Volt is a go,” said Wagoner, adding that GM expects to have a production version of the Volt ready “in the very near future” with the vehicle being ready for sale at the end of 2010.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10787_3-9958406-60.html
OR how about this one from June of 2008:
—He (Lutz) said the first cars (thats plural) to look like the “real Volt” will appear at the end of this year (2008), and that by spring and summer of 2009 there will be “several hundred” of these (wow thats a lot)…and he notes public early drives and media events will commence (can’t wait for those ‘public drives’)
http://gm-volt.com/2008/06/06/big-news-video-bob-lutz-discusses-his-chevy-volt-test-drive-and-the-current-state-of-development/
There another 3-4 ‘off the cuff’ remarks about timelines for mules and prototype that have been completely blown as well…which one do you want to go with here? I bet at some point GM makes one of these deadlines…best 4 of 7, 5 of 9 anyone?
——–
Also, those parts to make the prototype do not come off the supplier’s manufacturing chain, they are not machined parts of a production line, they are ‘one-offs’ There is no 3rd party company out there making (or tooling up for) anything to do with actual unique production parts for the Volt.
As for not scheduling test drives if they were behind…what? They are flogging the thing for every red cent of PR they can get in front of a very big bankruptcy decision…just like they did having the circus come to town with Wagoner driving one to the hearings.
No clue why you mentioned Mitsu at all as a example, they didn’t ‘toot their own horn’ or give out updates/production goals hardly at all…and they are ahead of schedule (not behind like you seem to be suggesting)…they are in production in 6 weeks and are going to spit out 2,000 copies on top of the almost 500 they have now in fleet testing, at no time did they represent being to market before 2009 (at least that I recall)
Apr 14th, 2009 (7:35 pm)#151 Solo
The problem with high production is that nearly all the items to manufacture,assemble, or QC are usually made for one specific job. The fact that one door looks like another does not negate the fact that the existing tooling for that door are nearly usless for the new door without extensive re-engineering. If GM had lots of money these problems would not be that big of a deal. They would start doing and would expect to have to make major changes as they got furthur into the project. Now they must be using computer simulation and need to try to design all parts of the wsystem in cyber. It would be nice if they could pick out existing lines and make a few changes to convert said line from one model that isn’t selling well to a line ready to make Volts.check and recheck the simulations and hope you find all the problems before you spend large swums of money
Apr 14th, 2009 (7:45 pm)On topic again (finally). Personally I don’t care about if it handles like a Cadillac…even if they are talking about a two decade old Cadillac Brougham
Teh hotness:
http://cadillac-parts.uneedapart.com/images/cadillac-brougham-parts.jpg
I just want it to do what they say it will…go 40 miles (real world) on a charge, and I am tickled pink. (I’d also like them to hurry up and built them)
Apr 14th, 2009 (8:01 pm)#155 statik says, “Personally I don’t care about if it handles like a Cadillac”
————————————————-
The reviewer’s comment was, I suppose, a gentle way of saying “handles poorly”
Apr 14th, 2009 (10:09 pm)“Handling like a Cadillac” is THE very simplest of things to tune “in” or “out” of any suspension. Having less-experienced technical writers have their “say” beforehand is a really wise thing to do so that you can “peg” exactly where they are in their comprehension-levels as well as technical-objectivity skills.
Any technician who is far, far more advanced in their understandings is often not understood to be any more advanced than the best understandings of the less-experienced levels of technical advancement of those less experienced.
I was entertained by the following phrase which came across a forum at one of the electric vehicle sites in Texas, and, it went like this:
“The unaware are unaware of what they are unaware”.
But at some point, with careful and respectful explanations, if they follow-through with loyalty in reading these posts, they increasingly become aware that Voltec is just the only way to go.
Dan Petit Austin TX.
Apr 14th, 2009 (10:13 pm)I really cant wait to see what Lyle has to say about his test drive
Apr 15th, 2009 (8:15 am)#131
the www thingy you mention is NOT an American invention although the USA is the largest user..
The WWW was invented by research scientists at CERN in Europe..
Sorry, just wanting to clarify that
Apr 15th, 2009 (9:01 am)#159 Mitch says:
#131
the www thingy you mention is NOT an American invention although the USA is the largest user..
The WWW was invented by research scientists at CERN in Europe..
Sorry, just wanting to clarify that
=====================
We already know it was Al Gore…he said so.
“During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country’s economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system” –March 9, 1999 interview with CNN’s Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer:
/case closed
(and yes, that is a tongue in cheek moment there)
Apr 15th, 2009 (3:16 pm)Statik..
Man..don’t you know CERN is Al Gore’s Secret service name??? That is why there is confusion…
lol..don’t bite your toungue while its in your cheek
Apr 15th, 2009 (7:39 pm)Just watched the video. Wow, what hapened to Tony’s mustache?
Apr 15th, 2009 (7:41 pm)Mitch #159
You are correct. I should have listed “that Internet thingy”.
Oct 10th, 2009 (8:08 am)Volt is a joke. How come GM has logged over a million miles with their Fuel Cell vehicles, yet the Volt is still overcoming technical issues?
Law of conservation of energy, has me wondering how a tiny “generator” motor will product enough electricity to run an electric car?