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Chevy Volt to Cost About $35,000?
February 11th, 2008 | Posted in: Financial
Originally it was GM’s goal to produce the Volt for under $30,000. Over time it became apparent that reaching that goal would be difficult considering all of the new and unique technology that would have to be created for the car.
In January, Bob Lutz said the car could wind up closer to $40,000 but he wasn’t very specific. On this site we saw a considerable backlash about that, even though no exact number was given.
Now a new report quotes Dee Allen, a spokesperson for GM, trying to give a more specific number.
Allen’s exact words:
“It’s starting to look like it’s going to be close to $35,000,”
Source (Canada.com)
Popularity: 5%
Related posts:
- How Much Will the Chevy Volt Cost?
- Do you want your Volt to Drive itself?
- Volt Pricing to Take High Battery Warranty Cost into Account
- Chevy Volt Design Freeze within Weeks
- Lutz: Each Volt Factors in the Cost of a Battery Replacement
(7 votes, average: 3.43 out of 5) 
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Posted by: Lyle
February 11th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
Still too much. When I can buy a Hyundai for $13k, that will take a lot of gasoline to make up for $35K.
February 11th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Well this is better than 40K, thanks for the news.
In € that makes 24 K€ instead of 27,5, so it comes at a price competitive with the 2008 Prius in Belgium (26k€) (Well it depends on the taxes and public incentives for such vehicles in 2010)
February 11th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
My browser is not showing the entire text of the posts, since much is hidden behind the google ad. Could this be corrected?
February 11th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
C’mon, people, look at the long-term. If they can get this to market by 2010 for $35,000, that is a victory. Early adopters always pay a premium. Hyundai does not make an ELECTRIC car for $13,000 or $113,000. This car is a game-changer. Have some vision!
February 11th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
Sadly, it may be a great car, but GM won’t be selling nearly as many at that price, nor will one of the purchasers be me. A Cobalt with an electric drive system is worth a premium, (especially with the cool design) but this is so far over the ‘comfortably under $30,000′ Lutz started out at that it is hard not to think ‘Bait and Switch’. Unless the tax writeoffs for buying the Volt are double or more what they were for the Prius, GM will have trouble selling 10,000 Chevy’s yearly for more than $30,000. If this is the case I will get a Ford Escape Hybrid, not a Volt.
GM needs to sell this car closer to the price for a Prius or the Prius will sell and the Volt won’t, despite the obvious benefits of EREV vs. hybrid tech. People will pay for energy independence but they won’t get gouged for it.
The Volt is slowy going from ‘Game Changer’ to ‘Game Over’ for GM.
February 11th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
Just keep racing toward that 2010 deadline, GM. Don’t get too caught up in the price for now — build it, and they will come. I’m a single income family guy, so maybe I won’t be able to afford the first off Volt, but I still want it to come to market as planned. That way, the electric-drive ball gets rolling. The well-to-do folks will eat up all the first ones anyhow, which is good for GM. What will be good for the rest of us with more limited cash flow, will be the inevitable competition, as well as lesser costly followup vehicles based on electric-drive. However, maybe with family discount and my GM/VISA points…hmmm…
February 11th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
hercule and all - sorry about the bad rendering..its a bug with the new theme only found on internet explorer 6.0…the developer is working on it as we speak.
February 11th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
I’m in at that price.
If there is something else coming out within 6 to 12 months of Nov 2010 that is more suitable I’d consider waiting, but I doubt there will be.
There was an amendment to a bill last year that tried to give $6000 in tax credits for cars like the Volt. It was based on KWh battery capacity and Volt qualified for max $6000 rebate. So that’s a figure that the politicians have been thinking of as reasonable. I’m definitely in then!
February 11th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
GM/VISA points:
If GM will commit to allowing GM/VISA points towards the Volt, I’ll move all my cards to GM!
Better still GM:
Come out with a GM/VISA with a Volt picture on it, and a special deal if you buy a Volt, like points won’t expire until at least 1 year after Volt hits the show rooms and any waiting list (if there is one) is exhausted.
This could be great extra marketing, and to a customer base that are not likely usual GM customers.
February 11th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
I guess I’ll be buying a Chinese knock-off. Union scale will kill the Volt and then it will kill GM.
February 11th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
Sorry, but no, I can find cheaper technologies that may do a little less than the volt but still save me on gas. I’m out at that price. I thought GM was willing to “loose money” at first to get the vehicle out; seems like they changed their mind.
February 11th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
$35,000.00 is definately a stretch…
BUT…
I want this car bad enough to make that sacrifice. I have done the calculations and for me the additional $150.00/month car payment will almost (not quite) pay for itself in fuel savings.
BUT…
Remember people…its not just the fuel savings…its the fun of driving a car with full torque at 0 rpms, the future quieter, cleaner environment, and eventually telling the oil companies to #%&*@($!
I am willing to be an “early adopter” because I honestly think that an upgrade battery will be available a short time later with 2-3 times the range, whether OEM or aftermarket.
I’m in!
February 11th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
Why do you people always forget the tax credits that will certainly be given? (except Mark #8)
Here’s some math in case you forgot how to do it:
$35k - $5k (probable tax credit IMO) = $30k
$35k - $10k (maybe?) = $25k
I think anyone who is on this site would be willing to pay $25-30k for a car like the Volt. If not, you might as well go out and buy a subcompact right now and stop wasting your time here.
February 11th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
I’m in. All I need to do is check the number of U.S. troops killed per day in Iraq. Think about that people… It averages about 1.5. antiwar.com.
Anyone want to bitch about $5K extra that we’ll get back in tax CREDITS?
February 11th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
imho,
Toyota have said they are working on Lithium batteries.
While I dont regard parallel technologies highly, continuous improvement to the Prius coupled to a street price of about $20,000 should make them a very effective competitor to the Volt at $35000.
February 11th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
Add on a leased battery pack and a tax rebate:
$35k-$12k battery pack=$23k base car
$23k-$5k rebate= $18k plus lease payments for a Volt in your driveway.
February 11th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
A write off of $6,000 against income is not the same as a $6,000 credit against you tax bill. Too bad Romney is out he would have made things happen for MI. If I can get my volt for under $35,000 OTD with an appropriately “useable” tax offset to the dealer cost I am still in the running. I figure gas hovering around $4/gal end of 2010. TCO will be the final determining factor for me over 10 years. I’m still waiting for final design specs & pricing and teh petroleum market long term outlook around that time. A lot can change in 2.75 years, those who can’t afford now might find they cannot afford not to in 2011 even if it means a second on the condo. Never say never!
February 11th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Let’s wake up! This reminds me of the person who buys a sailboat and thinks “The wind is free, so everthing else should be also”.
If people are paying Starbucks $5.50 for a fancy cup of coffee, they will certainley pay a premium for the Volt.
Keep in mind GM will continue to have other offerings that fill both the budget and mpg requirements of other customers that don’t want or need the Volt. The marketplace will determine the product line.
February 11th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
Well, $35,000 is a tough number for me to swallow, but I am trying to brainwash myself as follows:
When we bought our Impala for $24,000 in 1995, we thought it was a great deal. Adjusted for the CPI, that is pushing $31k in 2008 dollars. Who knows what it will be in 2010/11? Maybe less if oil goes to $200/barrel and the economy really tanks. More likely more.
As Brian M, #13 and others point out, we live in hopes of the tax credit. I am agitating for $10,000. If they could give $3400 to the customers of T & H, they can damn well give $10,000 to customers of the General who get double the mileage and keep the jobs here!
So maybe it all hangs together. Anyway, 3 years from now is a whole new world, so let’s just keep pushing GM to save itself.
February 11th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
This is the first car I’ve ever considered buying new, but if it’s going to be over $30k, forget it. I still don’t see what’s so great about an electric Cobalt that it demands a $20k premium.
February 11th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
We need tax CREDITS (not deductions) of at least 5k to make 35k happen. 7500 would be better.
February 11th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
I do not see the $35K as a deal ender, especially with a rebate. Due to some unexpected ice, it is time to upgrade from my 94 Explorer to a ‘08 Hybrid Escape. The well equiped Escape, for about $30-33K does have 4×4, but does not have 40 mile electric range… I wish I could wait until the Volt is out - with 4 wheel motors…
February 11th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
I thought that this would be something that most people would be able to afford and now you are telling me this? Why this is no better than some of the other things we hear about in the news every day. Just some more corporate BS as usual. I do realize that some things happen but this was suppose to be a car we all could afford!
February 11th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
My browser is broken on this post.
So is the price.
February 11th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
There is no way for GM to sell 60k Volts a year @ $35k a copy. $35k is a luxury car teritory, that’s even above $30k entry luxury price. Yeah, yeah, it will be cheaper to run - so what? It could be powered by air, this does not change a fact that most of us cannot afford a car in that price range. The good news is that the Volt will be an iconic car and possibly a start of a new trend. Most likely everybody will start making plug in cars soon after. The bad news (for me at least) is that the Volt will not be parked in my garage. I will have to wait for a plug in Toyota or Hyundai. Hopefully it won’t be long, 1-2 years after Volt, I think.
My final thought: Volt will be a game changer for the automotive industry, but not for GM. They will continue on their downward spiral.
February 11th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
I agree with you Szyszek this seems to be the trend any how.
February 11th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
Looks like American car manufacturers will never be able to build a
car that the American public needs instead of a car that will satisfy
their bottom line. The laws of physics and common sense tell us that
big heavy cars will never be as efficient as a smaller lighter car. No amount of gas savings can make up the difference between spending
around $20,000 dollars for a car than spending $35,000 or $40,000.
February 11th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
For about $19K and one more year of waiting (or so) Mitsubishi iMiEV will be available. Keep your ICE car around for those long commutes, or throw in a $1-2K Honda generator as a last-gasp option Range Extender) ihttp://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/02/mitsubishi-moto.html.
It is kind of ugly - not $15K ugly.
February 11th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
>> There is no way for GM to sell 60k Volts a year @ $35k a copy.
That puts the price well above a Prius along with a lifetime supply of gas with money left for lifetime tires and some recreational equipment.
Sales of 60k Volts would great for the FULL hybrid market… since the ultimate goal is not to compete with each other. Replacing traditional vehicles is.
February 11th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
$35 K.. Rebates in Canada are not going to be as good as in the US but the I guess GM will give me a HUGE TRADE IN for my 07 MAXX so that the VOLT will be out there for everyone to see.. I am not one of those people that will be traveling less than 40 Miles (65 - 70 KMS) per day… try at least doulbe that. but at the projected 50 + MPH I will still save $ 150 - 200 in Canadian Gas Prices per month.. It’s going to be a toss up alright when I would be able to get a Prius for $10 - $15 K less with about the same milage…I can buy a lot of gas for $10 K.
February 11th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
wow alot of fair weather fans!
I thought it was going to be 30K all along so let see…..
An extra 5K for a car that has probably the lowest cost of ownership ever. In my case I will only use the ice for maybe 20 miles a day, just enough to keep the parts lubed. So a tune up every what 6 years, an oil change once a year.
Honestly i think if we see a Democratic canidate in the white house, we could easily see tax credits the 1st year of 10K, falling from their by year or number of units sold. Similarly to how the tax credits on the hybrids work now.
An extra 5k to bankrupt the terrorist financers, to save the earth, to do my part, to get off foreign oil, to show corporations that we still control the purse strings, and things actually still matter to us.
Think outside of your monthly payments for once. Do something for the country, our children.
If not go get your Prius, and every weekend when your at the pump remember :
YOUR PART OF THE PROBLEM!
February 11th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
10K less for a prius will buy alot of gas
It’ll buy 3300 gallons @ $3.00 a gallon. that’s 66k miles if you get 20 mpg.
And if you buy a prius you’ll need it. I’ll spend my 10K on saving the world.
Who cares how much gas you can buy with 10K, isn’t buying gas the problem people. Are you looking for a solution to our global crisis, or just lookin to save a few bucks?
February 11th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
You must be nuts if you think that Toyota will have a Prius with a 40 mile all electric range for $20,000. They would have to buy the big expensive battery just like GM does. ANY VOLT like car is going to cost $30,000 plus! If GM sells the Volt for $35,000, they likely still won’t make any money on it. Barring a major break through in battery cost - if ya want electric you gonna have to pay.
February 11th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
>> Are you looking for a solution to our global crisis, or just
>> lookin to save a few bucks?
$10k is way more than a few bucks… especially if you have several vehicles and want to send your children to college.
Study hybrid history. You’ll find $3k to $5k is far more realistic for mass appeal.
As for “crisis” consideration, keep smog emissions in mind. FULL hybrids can also dramatically reduce them.
February 11th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
If the Volt was intended to make a big impact, then raising its price will simply make it less affordable for more people. Some of us will probably buy one because of its hi-tech value. However, many will look at this in pure economic terms. Does it save $$? This more calculating view will require an economic analysis involving the price of electricity & gasoline, plus the number of miles driven each day.
If GM wants to make a difference in the US in terms of our energy picture, keeping the price down (below $30K) would be a great way to start.
February 11th, 2008 at 6:01 pm
Anything over $30k OTD is going to be a tough sell.
Maybe I’ll just buy a 2010 Cobalt instead…
http://www.gminsidenews.com/naias/revitalization/chevroletria/images/chevrolet/detail_cobalt_coupe.jpg
…and pocket the $15k savings for $4.00/gallon gas…
February 11th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
>>They would have to buy the big expensive battery just like GM does. ANY VOLT like car is going to cost $30,000 plus!
How do you know how much the batteries cost?
February 11th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
That Volt ad with the dog licking my foot has really bothered me. It creates an icky feeling that does not go with a $35K car.
February 11th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
I see no new information here, GM already said the price looks like it is going to closer to $40, 000 than $30,000, so that equates with $35,000 plus. $36,000 would be close to $35,000, as would $37K. Once you go past $37,500, then the price becomes close to $40,000.
So I am standing pat, the car will be available for purchase in 2011, at a price less than $40,000, with an AER of at least 25 miles, and a 0 to 60 time of less than 9 seconds. What would be news is some information that makes these expectations unrealistic.
February 11th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
The dream is over for the whole “car for the masses” expectation. Look at the posts the past few months. Every week it gets a little more gloomy. *sigh*
February 11th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
Maybe I’m mistaken but the Volt looks like a big heavy luxury car defeating the potential gas savings that could really be achieved.
Is the Volt truly a no frills car costing $35.00? Will GM be putting
this new technology into a smaller lighter car or is this as good as
it gets? Will the styling and and other extras be costing nothing beyond
this new technology advance? If this car came equipped with a standard engine could it be mistake for any other economy car on
the market today?
February 11th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
That mitsy bitsy above is interesting, it has a 16Kw Lithium battery and according to #28Dave should come in around $20000,
hmmm…mutter..mutter..mutter..
February 11th, 2008 at 7:05 pm
Oppps,
16 KwHr battery.
February 11th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
Jon P, #31
“Who cares how much gas you can buy with 10K, isn’t buying gas the problem people. Are you looking for a solution to our global crisis, or just lookin to save a few bucks?”
Well both, or all three if you include ending terrorism.
But let’s be reasonable about the price to the masses. This car is not just for us here. It needs to be for everyone in order to make a difference. I’m sorry, but not everyone can afford a $35K car, or justify it. Now I will admit that I do indeed keep forgetting about the tax breaks, but $30K plus tax breaks would be much better for the masses to afford. If the Volt is to be a game changer, then people need to be able to adopt it in droves. If it is too expensive, then people will not buy it. GM needs to take a significant chunk out of the 60% of new car buyers who won’t buy American.
I will not bash anyone who says that $35K is too much.
I don’t know what other people can afford. I only know about me.
I can afford to pay this, but I won’t do it. It is too much money for a proven GM car, never mind an unproven one. I do not have great confidence in their ability to build a good car anyway, but I am very willing to take a gamble on the Volt. Just not a 35,000 dollar gamble.
February 11th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
There are a number of manufacturers pitching their EV’s or hybrids at the $20K mark. I really dont know if that includes tax rebates.
However, to get the volumes GM needs, I would think Chevy has to get in to the ring and fight.
Otherwise..call it a Cadillac.
February 11th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
The same people who buy the $40,000+ Audi and BMW will buy the $38,000 Volt JUST to have one. I am retired and in 1998 I bought a new Chysler Concord LXi. We still have it. It has 32,000 miles on it. We get 22 mpg locally and over 30 MPG on long drives. We drive less than 10,000 miles a year BUT I want to buy the Volt and can afford the $38,000. But not to just HAVE it, but because I beleve we must get unhooked from the middle east oil. It makes our country vulnerable when there is a world crisis which would cause a cut off of oil to us from that part of the world. It is a matter of national security. I will keep the Chrysler for the next 2 years and buy the first or second electric that comes on the market, from GM , Honda or Totota. Which ever, it is it will be worth waiting for. You can be sure that Hona and Toyota are planning for this and if the Volt comes in at over $35,000, Honda and Toyota will bring in cars we will buy at $25,000. They have done this before.
February 11th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
The real question is when will Gen 2 come out? GM has been saying for a while the 1st gen would be expensive and then cost would come down. They announced the the 2nd gen would be rolled out worldwide with 2M units per year and would be priced like a Chevy.
If the 1st version is too expensive that’s unfortunate but I still have hope that with tax rebates, high cost of fuel, and a lower cost on the 2nd generation, the Volt still will make sense for the masses!
February 11th, 2008 at 8:06 pm
Hmmm,
Yes, GM have been talking about Gen 1 being more expensive than Gen 2, but why?
I can not be depreciation of development costs, they will never sell enough of Gen 1 to make a difference.
I think it may be the attraction of those tax rebates and the guaranteed market of the early adopters.
Its a long time to 2011, they may find it a much tougher market than they think now. There will be a bigger range of economical cars available and those arriving before 2011 will have staked out a market share.
imho
February 11th, 2008 at 8:08 pm
$15,000 would buy alot of hookers and crack! Is that better then saying $15k would buy alot of gasoline? Hmm… For $40k I could almost buy two prius’. How about a Prius and a second battery pack and some programming to make it a plug in?
Fair weather fan? How about working class citizen in a single income home that cant invision wasting money?
However when my car is paid off I’m still in cuz I think its cool!
February 11th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
Volt = Prius + 15kWh batteries + 2X-larger electric motor - very complicated transimission - 1 cylinder
In my opinion, the Volt is really about the 15kWh of batteries, so $35k-$22k = $13k -> $13k/15kWh = ~900 $/kWh. This is the fact of the matter. Batteries are expensive and are unlikely to be less than 500 $/kWh anytime soon.
The best you can hope for in the next several years is $22k + 500 $/kWh*15kWh = ~$30k. On the positive side, the batteries should have considerable residual value.
All-in-all $35k is not surprising.
February 11th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
Stop comparing the Volt to an econobox when looking at the price. Look at the prices being charged out there. Toyota Land Cruiser going for over $50k.
February 11th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
>>The same people who buy the $40,000+ Audi and BMW will buy the $38,000 Volt JUST to have one.
The greenies I know are too utilitarian to spend $35k+ on a new car.
The people I know who can and do spend $35k+ on a car do so because they get something of excellent design and quality and craftsmanship like an Audi or a BMW.
Other than the drivetrain, I fully expect the Volt’s worth as a car to be on bar with the Cobalt, which is mediocre for its $15k price range. I’m not going to pay more than double a car’s worth because of a cool drivetrain.
February 11th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
>>Stop comparing the Volt to an econobox when looking at the price. Look at the prices being charged out there. Toyota Land Cruiser going for over $50k.
The Volt is being built on the next Cobalt platform and the Cobalt is an econobox. Why should it be compared with anything else? Why stop at the Land Cruiser, look at Ferraris that cost $500k. I guess the Volt is a car, just like a Ferrari is a car, so it would be no problem if it cost $500k too?
February 11th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
An amazing amount of complaining. I guess although nothing like the Volt has ever been produced before, it should only cost ~20K? It is clear that few people appreciate the engineering that’s going into this car. Using that metric, I’m suprised its ONLY 30-35K.
Another thing that this discussion has driven home is something that I have said before. Like it or not, a majority of people truely do not care about larger issues like environment or oil dependency. They only care about their own wallet. These discussions separate the people who think that the Volt is revolutionary from those who were only looking for the promise of cheap transportation and cheap gas bills.
So keep making the comparisons to a $13,000 econobox and how much of a ripoff the Volt is. It just makes you look silly.
I agree with others here, if $5000 makes that much of a difference, then you should be elsewhere.
February 11th, 2008 at 9:20 pm
#31 Jon said… “Think outside of your monthly payments for once. Do something for the country, our children.
If not go get your Prius, and every weekend when your at the pump remember :
YOUR PART OF THE PROBLEM!”
also in #32 said “Who cares how much gas you can buy with 10K, isn’t buying gas the problem people. Are you looking for a solution to our global crisis, or just lookin to save a few bucks?”
Jon if you didn’t already know I will remind you…. the Volt does in fact have a gas tank and a ICE.
February 11th, 2008 at 9:24 pm
Tax credit or not I’m in. Sure $30k would be much better then $35k but that will not change my mind. I can’t wait to buy an American designed and manufactured car that let’s me effectively eliminate my need to use gasoline, eliminates my contribution to this country having to import foreign oil and all the problems associated with it, significantly reduces carbon emissions contributing to global warming and pollution. Need I say more? I only wish that car was available today. The Malibu Hybrid is good but not good enough. For now I will be trading in my Ford Expedition (16 MPG) for a Honda Civic Hybrid (45 MPG). Prius is only marginally better and the Honda looks better. Now if the Malibu Hybrid got that kind of mileage… So, the Honda will have to do for now, but when the Volt is available I will be among those willing to pay to be an early adopter. It can’t always be about the economics. Sometimes it has to be about the principles. If you think about it long term the economics works out as well. Has anyone stopped to consider what the costs will be if we do nothing to reduce our dependence on foreign oil, not to mention the environmental and the impact that will have. That being said, can we really afford not to? Sure there will be those who will not be able to purchase the first generation Volt’s off the line and will have to wait until gen 2 or 3. Those that do are the ones that will make it possible for the price to come down significantly in the near future. I say if you can, then you should. Let’s do everything we can to help GM exceed their goals, and affirm that they are going in a direction the is right for the security of this country and the environment and that the public not only wants it, they demand it!
February 11th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
52 Tom,
Yes,
Good comparison, $15K for a Cobalt plus $8K for 16KwHrs.
Trade the transmission for an electric motor.
I dont think I have left anything out except the radiator…
Answer $23K.
From an enviroment point of view a revolutionary car that will sell millions at that price. For the frugal, exceptional fuel economy.
I dont think I allowed for any rebates there.
February 11th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
Dan, Couldn’t have said it better. 100% in agreement.
February 11th, 2008 at 9:35 pm
“GM has found it can’t re-engineer features such as windshield wipers and high-powered audio systems fast enough for the all-electric car, so it will be forced to put expensively redundant systems into the first-generation Volt.”
What redundant systems?
“”Because we’re going as fast as we’re going to get this to market, some of the systems will have to be redundant,”"
What systems will be redundant, are they trying to reconfigure the windshield wipers and radio/cd player to run on 300 Volts? Just use a DC-DC converter for 12 volt usage. They’re on the market now. Owner built electric cars use them all the time!
“In gasoline-powered vehicles, windshield wiper motors are powered directly off the engine.”
Ummm… directly powered off of the engine would make them vacuum wipers used and abandoned many decades ago. There electric now. Turn the ignition to on, then turn on the wipers, see the engine isn’t running?!?
“which still doesn’t give the engineers time to re-invent the windshield wiper.”
Why are they reinventing the wipers? How to hide it aerodynamically? Rewire it for 300 volts?
Whats up with the 200 or 500 watt amplifier comment? How would GM redesign a 500 watt audio amp? A 500 watt amp will at least consume 500 watts no matter what, that’s just a physical/electrical requirement.
I wouldn’t trust any information in that article. It’s just weird.
February 11th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
#46 Rockyroad
Ditto - Coincidentally I have a 93 version of your car and get the same (or better) mileage and it will last another 2-3 years until the Volt is out. All this talk about the price of gas is pointless IMHO… it’s not about the price of gas, it’s about not using gas at all. I posted an inflation calculator link several weeks ago: http://www.westegg.com/inflation/
Now when I first started driving in the late 60’s, gas was 29.9 everywhere, for years. If you plug 0.299 into the inflation calculator, in 2007 dollars it comes out to around $1.84, so gas was the equivalent of 30 cents a gallon just a few years ago. Sure, early adapters are going to pay a premium for the Volt, but this is not entirely about the Volt, it’s about the technology. Some years ago I remember hearing that we don’t have an energy crisis, we have a technology crisis. Well that’s about to end and the Volt will be among the first (along with the Prius) to make that happen. This technology will get cheaper much as computers have over the years. By 2015 this technology will be closer to 20k than 30k IMHO. Maybe not the Volt but others. The Volt will let the cat out of the bag, it will be the chink in the armor. And speaking of computers, I have a 14YO Pentium 100 in my garage gathering dust. I paid close to 3K for it. Look how far we have come.
February 11th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
I don’t care about the environment, or the cost of gas making up for the cost of the car. The reason I want one is because I lived through the gas lines of the 70’s. Has anyone thought about what will happen if there is another gas crunch and gas ins’t available at any price? Even if another make gets 60 MPG it won’t do any good if you can’t find gas to put in it. If there is a repeat of the 70’s at least I will be be able to get to the store for food, visit the doctor etc without using any gas. I now drive a Lexus hybrid SUV that get 27 to 30 around town and 23 to 26 MPG on the highway. My concern isn’t price, the Lexus listed in the mid 40’s so I would be happy to spend 60 K or more if the car had the luxury features the Lexus has. It looks like there will be about a year between the end of the Lexus lease and the introduction of the Volt and that leaves me with a dilemma.
February 11th, 2008 at 10:07 pm
Lots of replies to read yet but, I’m certainly in for $35K. I’m investing in America, the future, telling the oil companies to shove it, bringing our troops home, forcing the Middle East to become a working democracy on their own. The Chevy Volt isn’t just a car, its an investment in the future. I’ll be in for anything under $40K pretty much.
February 11th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
If consumer inflation is 4% per year, then the price will be in 2010 dollars 35,000 x .96 x .96 x .96 = 30,965.76 Not bad really.
Also IF we are approaching peak oil then rapid price increases for oil can be expected. For a few years until EV production can be ramped up, company’s will pay almost anything to assure the ability to move when they want to.
Regards
February 11th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
tax credits aren’t that important to me and a lot of people that are retired, I will get the darn thing reguardless of tax credit just to know I won’t be stranded again if there (maybe if isn’t the correct word make that when) gas lines and shortages come back.
February 11th, 2008 at 10:23 pm
Replt to
February 11th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
As far as a Prius with added batteries, My Lexus can probably only go about 3 to 5 miles with the ice off, so if you double the battery that only gives you 6 to 10 mile range. I can trick the computer into keeping the ICE off by keeping a light touch on the gas pedal and accelarating so slowly i would tick off anyone behind me.I have done some experimenting with the Lexus to see how far I can go with the ICE off and I am sure even with double batteries you have 1o miles max
February 11th, 2008 at 10:30 pm
Reply to
February 11th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
$3 gas? It was almost $4 when I drove to NY and CT for Christmas, two more years and it could hit $8 to $10
People make calulations without taking into account the fact gas keeps on going higher
February 11th, 2008 at 10:44 pm
$35k Breaks it for me. I was hoping for something around $25k or less. There still 2 years to go. Maybe technology will save the day and costs will come down towards $20k. Then I’ll be in. Ever since I was a teenager I dreamed of electric vehicles. I drive a 96 Neon now with a 40MPG average. It’s got 177,000 on it and still going. Hope it makes it to 2010. Love the style of the volt. Hope to be plugging one in in 2010.
February 11th, 2008 at 10:57 pm
I’m in especially since there will probably be tax incentives to purchase it. Go GM….bring that Volt to papa!
February 11th, 2008 at 11:02 pm
bruce g
“52 Tom,
Yes,
Good comparison, $15K for a Cobalt plus $8K for 16KwHrs.
Trade the transmission for an electric motor.
I dont think I have left anything out except the radiator…”
==== ===== ====
Weeellll…..maybe the AC propulsion motor, the BMS, the Motor controller , and PCM that will need to be developed and engineered for all eventualities and all the low power consumption electronics from cigarette lighter to wipers, and everything in between,that will make this car possible.
I think that adding the cost of a 16KWH batt to a Cobalt is a simplification.
That said I still think that our Gov could really help out with a sizable tax credit. After all, isn’t this what they would want? It is expensive to develop new technology on this scale and it should be ENCOURAGED.
February 11th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
There had been some discussion on here about lobbing our politicians for tax credits. I think it’s a great time to revisit that thought! Has anyone here actually coordinated such an effort? We have 2.75 YEARS to bother them. I know being irritating is something I’m told I’m pretty talented at.
What we need here is a fearless and equally irritating leader. I’ll be the first to sign up as a worker drone.
God Bless
February 11th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
Tag,
We do need to keep this fire burning. Maybe we could start a list and take it beyond this site. We know that there’ll be at least 10k on it but those are only interested in the Volt. I believe there will be many more who won’t or can’t buy the Volt but would come aboard because they want to do the right thing.
Can we start with a list? There is definitely power in numbers.
February 11th, 2008 at 11:49 pm
I am good for two Volts at $35k each. One for me and one for my wife.
February 11th, 2008 at 11:53 pm
Grizzly,
If we could get a separate list going, maybe Lyle would allow us to have a jumping off Link on this site. Then we could ask the admins of “green” sites like Green car Congress, Autobloggreen, plugging partners, etc to allow links that either go to the new site, or better yet back here, so we increase the traffic for Lyle’s site. I’ll browse around tonight for a while to see if I can find a site that’s already doing the lobbying, so we don’t reinvent the (electric) wheel (or step on anyone’s ongoing efforts - just join theirs).
(Full disclosure: sometimes I sound like I know what I’m doing, but trust me, I don’t)
God Bless
February 11th, 2008 at 11:58 pm
I am good for two Volts at $35k each. One for me and one for my wife.
How about raffling off the second one for $5 a chance to everyone on the waiting list. THEN buy yours. Your wife would, of course, get the first one (evil grin)
February 12th, 2008 at 12:09 am
Gm is trying to downplay the hope people might have about Volt, I will not be surprise if one day they say it is too difficult to make it last 10 years, so they give up, but the good news is GM figure out how to put a lithium battery on a SUV/Truck to get 2 mpg more for any big vehicle that get less than 20 mpg on highway, so for a suburban, from 12 mpg to 14 mpg and GM claim to be the leader of GREEN!. This is the way GM conducts business
February 12th, 2008 at 12:10 am
At $35,000 and a $6000 tax credit, I’m in. The car is affordable. Remember, the launch is 2010. Where will world oil inventories be in 2010 then add the 10 year life cycle to a car. The car is affordable. My neighbors all have gas guzzlers they bought when gas was under $2/gallon. Surprise! Gotcha said the Oil Barons to the swilling Americans. Thanks to me with a Buick Regal getting 22 MPG and my neighbors averaging 16 MPG, we’ve all contributed to a staggering $440,000,000,000.00 to the trade gap this year, this amount being the amount paid to the Sheiks. I live near Aspen - go look at who owns the biggest houses and private planes courtesy of whom?
February 12th, 2008 at 12:41 am
We have to fight for government tax credits.
What if the government offered a $10,000 tax credit for the first 10,000 plug-in vehicles purchased each year, resulting in a $25,000 Volt?
Would you buy a Volt at that price?
Let’s have a look at the cost of such a tax credit plan:
$10,000 X 10,000 = $100million per year
The cost of the Iraq war is $177million per day. Yes, per day.
Could there be a better investment than this? I can’t think of one. This investment would…
1) Bail out the U.S. automobile industry
2) Create/save thousands of American Jobs
3) Reduce our dependance on expensive, foreign oil more every year that such a tax credit is in place
4) Slow global warming
Talk about a no-brainer. Now we only need polical leadership that will make this happen.
Please consider this when you vote in the coming elections.
====
Sources
Cost of Iraq War per day: http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-08-26-iraq-war-clock_x.htm
February 12th, 2008 at 12:49 am
Drake,
Bringing politics into this can’t help but be devisive. This is an issue that obviously effects every American. Let’s try to retain our focus on a COMMON goal.
God Bless
February 12th, 2008 at 1:04 am
With postings like this, it is going to be a long 2.75 years…..
When the Volt comes out, it will be interesting to see how many other BEV’s or E-REV type vehicles are on the market, and at what price.
I am guessing that the comparable vehicles will all end up being priced about the same…
February 12th, 2008 at 1:05 am
For you guys who are all about making an environmental and political statement at any price, what are your positions on the Tesla pre-order list? Oh, you’re not on the list? Oh…
February 12th, 2008 at 1:34 am
#7 - Lyle said: hercule and all - sorry about the bad rendering..its a bug with the new theme only found on internet explorer 6.0…the developer is working on it as we speak.
Ask you developer to try out with this site: “IE7 fix” - it is a JavaScript library to make MSIE behave like a standards-compliant browser. It fixes many CSS issues and makes transparent PNG work correctly under IE5 and IE6. http://dean.edwards.name/IE7/
February 12th, 2008 at 1:48 am
#30 Ray said: … Rebates in Canada are not going to be as good as in the US …
I think that if a different federal party were leading the government, then you would see much more incentives for higher rebates on EV and hybrid cares, etc.
Until a year and a half ago, the Conservative party was in denial about climate change - now they just deny that anything can be done and are attempting to maintain the status quo in spite of the majority of Canadians wanting more progressive action:
The global poll of more than 22,000 people in 21 countries, including 1,000 Canadians, suggests that citizens in general - including those in the U.S. and China, the world’s biggest polluters - are more prepared than their governments to support tough measures
…
Canadians, in particular, are eager to step up, Miller told CanWest News Service, noting they “are among the most concerned about climate change and most ready to change their lifestyles and pay higher energy taxes to fund energy conservation and cleaner fuels - about 10 points ahead of Americans on all questions.”
The poll, conducted between May 29 to June 26, 2007, found that an “overwhelming” 91 per cent of Canadians believe people must make unspecified personal “lifestyle and behaviour” changes to reduce their own climate-changing emissions.
http://www.canada.com/theprovince/features/gogreen/story.html?id=446e75aa-34b7-4101-bab1-7969a53a2499&k=96150
February 12th, 2008 at 2:19 am
Here’s another way to make the Volt more affordable…..
Increase gas prices to $8 / gallon like in the United Kingdom.
Even at $8 / gallon gas is under priced considering the additional costs.
Obviously everyone has a breaking point price wise; otherwise I would have signed up with Tesla. However, from the posts here wallets appear more valued than I had hoped.
Indeed GM would like Uncle Sam to raise the price of gas, or so it claims as an alternative to cafe.
February 12th, 2008 at 4:14 am
#69 Grizzley
OK, OK,
I recognise most of those terms except a BMS.
Did they not do any of this work for the EV1?
Yes, they have some work to do to extract the best out of the ICE/battery combination but it is only intellectual sweat and toil.
Im not saying they shouldnt sweat and toil because the work may be patentable, its just that they may need to take a longer view of their investment.
.
February 12th, 2008 at 4:27 am
Ive just had a panic.
I hope it is a open standards cigarette lighter they are reengineering because my patner need to listen to Bob Dylan on our Ipod and we need a power source.
I suggest integrated 1 Gigabit Ethernet over 300V DC for the lighter.
February 12th, 2008 at 7:23 am
This is not good news! But, it’s still early and much could change between now and 2010/2011 when the Volt is available for purchase at your local Chevy dealership. I’ll wait and see what happens.
By the time the dealers add a “premium” to the MSRP, the Volt will likely cost closer to $40K than $35K. All the rebates, tax credits, tax deductions, etc. that people are talking about are nothing more than wishful thinking (pipe dreams) at the moment. We’ll have to wait and see on that one too before we know the total cost of owning a Volt!
One can only wonder how GM will amortize the cost for developing the E-Flex technology. Will the Volt pick up the total cost? Or, will the total cost be spread out over GM’s entire E-Flex product line (Saturn, Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac, etc.)?
February 12th, 2008 at 7:51 am
I just think that many of us here in this post are sending a message to GM that it is: 1) OK to raise the price target; 2) it is OK to lower our aggressive goals.
I of course want the best for a US car company, GM, and its union employees and US made battery…..but I will be looking around and watching, and I will make a competitive selection.
February 12th, 2008 at 8:07 am
>> $10,000 X 10,000 = $100million per year
So much for so few isn’t realistic. Something like that simply wouldn’t ever get passed. Our taxes are meant to server many.
Toyota, GM, Ford, Chrysler, Honda, Nissan, VW, etc. would all want a share of that money, the same way credits have been available. That would balloon past $4 Billion for the first 60,000 per automaker.
Then if you take into consideration a phaseout plan and some type of credit for less substantial hybrids, the price to the government grows beyond $6 Billion.
In other words, your good intention calculation was off by a massive amount.
February 12th, 2008 at 9:15 am
Perhaps I missed it in my scrolling but I haven’t seen any mention of maintenance.
if you are staying on electric just about all the time, how often are you going to need to do maintenance? Fluid changes? Etc. An oil change a few times a year (more for age rather than use) isn’t going to cost that much. If you’re on electric most of the time, you’re not “using up” your engine, exhaust, cooling system, etc. so the maintenance interval could be years rather than months.
Much less gas + less maintenance + rebates vs base price + cost of electricty = Real price of car.
February 12th, 2008 at 9:24 am
#55 Hopingforthebest
“Jon if you didn’t already know I will remind you…. the Volt does in fact have a gas tank and a ICE.”
I aware of that, it uses the ICE as a range extender, for me it will extended my range about 15-20 miles a day. But that’s just it, it’s not the primary means of propulsion. If i fill it up once a month that will be alot, and that’s assuming i can’t find somewhere at work to plug it in. If my boss green lights me charging at work i’ll never burn another drop of gas again, except for long trips.(which aren’t common)
It comes down to this i’m willing to sacrafice, it’s not all about saving money. Honestly when it’s all said and done with a price tag of 35k it will probably be a wash in the end, but i’ll sleep well knowing i did the best i could to bankrupt the terrorist.
Not to mention when Israel bombs Iran preemptivley to destroy their nuclear program, and gas goes to $8 a gallon before coming back to earth and staying @ $6 bucks. Then you’ll see the savings!
February 12th, 2008 at 9:28 am
#54 Meterologyfirst
“Another thing that this discussion has driven home is something that I have said before. Like it or not, a majority of people truely do not care about larger issues like environment or oil dependency. They only care about their own wallet. These discussions separate the people who think that the Volt is revolutionary from those who were only looking for the promise of cheap transportation and cheap gas bills.”
Couldn’t of said it better myself!
I heard Huffy is having a sale on 10-speeds, gas free & cheap!
February 12th, 2008 at 9:31 am
You can care about the environment, etc, by buying a Toyota.
Caring about the environment does not mean you give up $5K the first time a GM exec puts out his hand.
February 12th, 2008 at 9:37 am
$35K is perfectly reasonable for the first massive rollout of a car with so much new EV tech in it. If you want a cheaper one maybe they will eventually roll out one with shorter EV range. you can’t please everyone at first!
February 12th, 2008 at 9:44 am
“There had been some discussion on here about lobbing our politicians for tax credits. I think it’s a great time to revisit that thought! Has anyone here actually coordinated such an effort? We have 2.75 YEARS to bother them.”
Great Idea!
Maybe someone could put together a form letter we could download, put our name on a send to our local politician, a millon times over.
February 12th, 2008 at 9:48 am
Jim D #87:
I disagree with your comment. What I think GM is getting out of this is that most people here want the most bare bones, lowest cost, don’t make it fancy, get it out now, vehicle.
That sure is not what I want. I want supercar.
And I am trying to understand how so many people think that this car must be under $25K or it will be a sales disaster. If you do any research at all, you will find that the AVERAGE price of a new car since 2005 went over $30K, so there must be a whole lot more people that can afford a Volt is this price range that is being represented here.
As for me personally, I have not purchased a car that cost less than $20K in the last 17 years. And I don’t consider any of them to be high end luxury cars - 1991 Dodge Stealth - 2001 Mitsubishi Eclipse, 2004 Chrysler Crossfire. As I recall, my 1986 Chrysler Laser cost almost 18K!
So $35K in 2011 for a car that can change the world of transportation, does not sound too bad to me….
February 12th, 2008 at 9:59 am
I’m still in at $35,000, reluctantly. I just hope at that price, it’s not stripped down.
February 12th, 2008 at 10:21 am
I lease my cars and I have 2 leases that will mature in 2010. My wife and I both like the Volt as a car and the Volt idea in general. We had planned on leasing 2 Volt’s and every 3 years thereafter we would lease a new one enjoy the new longer battery life that each new generation should provide.. I was hoping to only buy gas for my lawnmower!. Well, this price is too much for the car so I will be buying gas for another 3 years on 2 more cars. Maybe in 2013 the competition will have a better priced solution. I really had high hopes for GM and am sad to say that I fell for the BS line of “comfortably under 30K”. GM, you better wake up and stop the lies. After a while people will not listen to anything you say. I am there now.
February 12th, 2008 at 10:23 am
35k huh? My 2004 Jetta ran 11,400 (end of model year) and it gets like 25 MPG. I’d turn it in for the Volt even at 35k just so I could give the big finger to EVERYONE in the middle east who wants to kill us but needs our oil money to buy the right weapons to do the job right.
February 12th, 2008 at 10:41 am
Is the 60,000 production figure for the first year what GM has been saying? The reason I ask is because first year production is going to dictate the initial cost of this car. GM might be willing to take a $120M loss ($2k per car) for the “green” PR. But if their suppliers can’t produce 60K batteries in 12 months, then GM isn’t going to go in the red much further.
Folks, this car is a “game changer,” but the technology in this car is NOT trivial. It will probably take a year of production to work out a lot of kinks and drive the cost down closer to that magical $30K figure. I would love to see 2nd year production double due to demand and reduced cost even for the 1st gen Volt.
February 12th, 2008 at 10:55 am
I paid pretty close to $35 K for my 07 MAXX…(lots of extras and it’s a great car) By late 2010 it will have almost 200 KMS on it . I will definately be buying an electric / hybrid something… whether it is GM, Toyota, Honda, Ford or whoever.. $35 K for the car ?? OK.. but it better do as advertized..and it has to have enough “toys” to capture my interest.. I’m all for saving the environment but like a lot of people.. I am not giving up having a car with “options” just to get the extra milage…. Oh and if you really want to help the environment…Tax the Heck out of all the OLD (25 - 30 Year Old) cars as they pollute 3 times as much as the currrent models of cars.
By taking them off the road you can really start showing everyone that you (and your government) is doing something about the environment.
February 12th, 2008 at 11:01 am
If they want it mainstream it will need to be less than $30,000. Sell at a loss until the popularity is there. Then boost the price.
I want this car very much but not for $30k+. I guess I will have to be happy with my die cast version.
February 12th, 2008 at 11:08 am
Sure car prices have gone up and most/many are around $30K. Even a new Prius is close to that figure. However, keep in mind these prices have been increasing during strong US economy in 90s and 00s. The next 10 years is a very different situation. Buying power will drop a great deal which in turn will put pressure on car prices.
Therein lies the problem for the Volt. Just as it comes out around 2010/11 US is in recession and purchasing power is very weak. That is the reason a lot of people keep talking about the $30K limit. The question is what will many/most consumers be able to afford in 3 years? Less than today perhaps?
At the same time many comparisons made are unfair and don’t make sense. This is clearly a higher end car that cannot be compared with Cobalts and Hondas, etc. In fact, too much focus on this single model is causing all this strife as single model cannot suite everyone.
February 12th, 2008 at 11:12 am
I wonder if the bigger story will be Saturn and other lines that borrow some of the Volt technology to build milder/cheaper hybrids. Clearly Volt will be more of a higher end niche model. Saturn might end up offering compromise hybrids that have a shorter electric range, yet lower price well below $30K. These models could have a much wider appeal. I am hoping they include some smaller/compact models that could get a decent electric range simply by hauling around less weight.
In the end I think some attention needs to shift to other “green” cars that will use some of the Volt technology. Perhaps this site could offer additional space or even could be renamed to green-gm or something like that.
February 12th, 2008 at 11:23 am
Valuation of Volt and pricing is widely misunderstood here. For instance, there are many cheaper hybrids. However, most of these are so called “mild hybrids” which hardly deserve to be called hybrid at all. They are still 90% dependent on gasoline. Volt is clearly going for 90% electric propulsion.
The most frequent comparison however is to simply good old gassers, cheap Hyndays and such. All the gas powered cars have the common weakness. When Chavez or Ahmedijan or any other Oil Baron decides to turn off the oil supply then most of our gassers are useless heaps of metal and plastic. Period.
Besides the cost savings from electric vs gasoline fuel, there is also increasing likelyhood of our gas stations going dry. In this volatile political world any day now someone some place will stop shipments to the US and we just not ready to cope with it. Our supply network is strecthed to the limits. So the main value of Volt is that when gas stations have no fuel for sale you are still able to drive to a store for supplies, etc.
In th worst case we can always get some solar panels and wind turbines at home to recharge Volt. There are no options for gassers.
The point is stop looking at short term when valuing Volt. Look longer term. If you are leasing it only for a few years sure. But if you are looking for a car for the next 20 years you need to take a longer term view.
All the being said, many people simply won’t have over $30K, so … Some simply cannot take a long term view even if they wanted. GM *MUST* offer alternative smaller/cheaper models that still have a useful electric range to successfully challenge Toyota.
February 12th, 2008 at 11:50 am
103 comments? Pretty amazing!
February 12th, 2008 at 11:52 am
More info for the reason for the price increase, and why subsequent model year(s) should get it back below $30k in the story at http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=e4b3ebaa-d5c4-48d0-8473-9f6fa0466660&k=55484
So the EV-1 in the 1990’s didn’t have windshield wipers or a radio?
February 12th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
Matt #98
So would I. I guess a lot of us are worried that the initial cost will hinder sales and the second gen price. This is why I think that 40 is much too high and I think our Govt should help out.
Bruce G #84
BMS=Battery Mgmt. System -and is not a stand alone, as it will have to be integrated into the PCM etc.
February 12th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
Detroit has once again not learned the lesson that they should have learned from the Japanese auto makers years ago. Build reliable
safe cars as inexpensively as possible, build a customer base and then enter the luxury car market later. By 2011 almost certainly Toyota
will build a green automobile priced below $30,000 because it will
look like and be a true economy vehicle.
February 12th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
30>40k is ok with me. It’s all about a cool-@ss car and not buying oil form overseas….
count me in.
February 12th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
30>40k is ok with me. It’s all about a cool-@ss car and not buying oil from overseas….
count me in.
February 12th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
I expected the first Volt, like calculators, computers, flat screen TV, and every other new technology to be expensive until economies of scale are achieved but anyone who thinks a price of $35K will deter buyers is naive. The number of luxury cars I see on the road everyday alone tells me $35K is peanuts to a significant portion of the US population. I don’t mean to be arrogant and, granted, to some It seems high in a conventional automotive context but The Volt does not live in the world of ordinary automobiles. You can’t possibly compare it to a Hyundai or a Mercedes or any thing else with with 4 wheels except the $100,000 Tesla, in which case the Volt becomes incredibly cheap and ultimately more practical. The Volt is a totally different paradigm and until electric vehicles become prolific there is no completion therefore no possible comparisons can be made based on cost. Because of that, cost will not be a primary consideration. Ego motivators alone are enough to drive demand for every Volt GM can initially produce. Despite that I would argue that initial vehicle price is only part of the overall transportation cost. There are other considerations that may make a $35K Volt a very practical purchase. A $4 thousand tax credit will help and by 2010 I expect gas will be be in the $5/gallon range. Every presidential front runner that has emerged so far has Energy considerations high on their agenda. I fully expect to see some kind of fuel usage tax implemented by then and many states are reviewing their own fuel tax policies. The Volts maintenance costs should be lower than a conventional ICE vehicle. Electric drive trains don’t wear out so longevity should be better and the volt technology will not be obsolete until other manufacturers can come up with a competing platform. Until they do, the first Volts may have a high resale value, perhaps even a premium. That and because many people are reluctant to be early adopters leasing will be an attractive option. Especially for anyone who views transportation as an amortized expense or wants a hedge against rising gas prices. Keep in mind, The Volt is a game changer and it will be in limited production for a while. The laws of supply and demand dictate price and there will probably be an immediate resale premium on new Volts until initial demand is satisfied. It happened with the Miata, and the New Beatle so why not the Volt. In short, A price tag of $35K is not going to hurt the demand for this car. It’s doable for a lot of people and the cache of owning a first of a kind new vehicle will command a premium, especially if GM backs up this car with a good warranty and dealer support. GM should do everything they can to give early buyers confidence in the new technology and insure the success of the Volt. My guess is that GM will not be able to produce enough Volts to satisfy the initial demand for quite some time.
February 12th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Should GM build an automobile for $35,000 to $40,000 and suggest
that the tax payers subsidize their for profit venture?
February 12th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
$35.000 + for the Volt is definitely to much.
But to be honest, what have you expected? GM has shown that the management is not able to do the right thing at the right time for years. There short term thinking attitude is the reason why Toyota is now the biggest car manufacturer in world and not GM anymore.
Actually I like the volt concept and I think that is the right direction but with such a over paid GM management there is no why that they will make a big hit out of it
February 12th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
Reese 107:
But GM is doing exactly that, IMO. They are building reliable, safe cars as inexpensively as possible. Unfortunately GM’s legacy costs are huge compared to Toyota or other Japanese or Korean makes.
These perceptions frustrate me to no end. I’m sure I am in the minority, but this is my opinion. Based on my experiences and MANY, MANY others, I am convinced that GM cars and trucks (and Ford’s for that matter) are of AT LEAST equal quality to Japanese cars right now. The problem is that’s not good enough. To overcome the prejudices from past mistakes, current GM offerings need to be better than the rest. Otherwise, the deep perceptions stay intact, irregardless of fact. You can monitor this using current resale values. They’re still nuts. When values level out, these perceptions will have disintegrated.
That is another reason that the Volt and the E-flex chassis are incredibly important to US manufacturing in general. If GM does it right, they may be able to plant a flag well out in front of the rest, proving that American ingenuity is alive and well. Toyota and Honda does not have a monopoly on good ideas and quality. It is sad that many Americans need reminded of this.
The Volt will cost what it will cost. Maybe we will get a tax credit as early adopters. Maybe not. What can not happen is GM produce an inferior Volt due to trying to keep it cheap. That scenario will only propagate the myths and probably doom GM. I can here the gleeful doubters now, ” I knew GM couldn’t do it right!! They never could!!”
I will buy one if only for the enjoyment of parking it beside all the Prius’s in the lots. I’ll search them out one at a time so they all get a close look at American ingenuity at its best.
February 12th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
I just find it amazing that it has taken us 90 years to migrate this technology from extremely successful diesel-electric locomotives to cars.
Besides, who would actually want a Prius? It looks like a$$!
Come on Toyota at least make it look good.
Until that happens, the Volt is the only way to go.
(Except maybe Tesla)
February 12th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Most of my friends who finance a new car purchase choose a 4 or 5 year payment option. Indulge my high school education for a sec:
29k car for 5 yrs @ 0% (if GM repeated) = $483/month approx.
35k car for 5 yrs @ 0% (if GM repeated) = $583/month approx.
This is not even taking into account possible rebates or tax credits.
Assume 70% daily drivers <40 miles/day @ 5 days/week plus perhaps avg 50 miles xtra on weekend? so that’s 250 mi/wk, assume 300 - close to 16k miles per year? 78000 miles when paid off on 5 yr plan. Resale ROI? Continue driving for next to free?
Operating cost (fuel only for simplicity’s sake) - my wife’s volvo daily driver - 300 miles per week put on, cost of gas - approx. $200/month. Purchased Volvo used - finish paying car off this year - payment was $310. - assume difference in monthly electric bill at my home will be negligible?
Now let’s talk about my work vehicle, a full sized Dodge truck with V8. Similar mileage use per week. Horrendous mileage & payment - tank/week, fuel cost per month = approx. $300. Payment $550. One volt makes sense, 2 volts or at least 2 EREV’s of some sort make better sense financially - virtually a sidestep or better just from a monthly budget point of view. $500/month in gas we’re spending. That’s a car payment. I know many many families with 2 cars used as daily drivers, many with 2 car payments. Other $$ variables mentioned seem completely valid to me such as cost of gas increasing, cost of living and inflation rising to match, etc.
I mention all this just to illustrate the minor difference of $100/month if you look at it from a payment point of view between the original estimates and the current one. I imagine the folks who are saying they would no longer purchase one due to the raised estimate likely would not have made a purchase in the high 20’s despite wanting to - I could be mistaken but don’t think I am in this case.
OK - indulge for just one more second…
Now imagine the next stage besides automobile emissions and pollution - our houses. Imagine a homesite that created it’s own electricity through various means and to various degrees. It would then allow the consumer to decide how dependent they were on established systems and networks for providing energy. Supply your homes and your vehicles with enough power to live your lives as needed with gasoline and diesel as backup systems at first, novelties in the longrun. The combination of these two conversions, auto and home, it can be done. That is the mental image I get when I envision vehicles that have a longer electric-only range.
February 12th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
Eh? Why do so many people seem to think that the Prius costs almost or above $30k?
Reality check, the *MSRP* for the Prius starts at $21,100. I have a friend who bought one of the new Priuses right when it came out, loaded with nav system and other options, and he paid a couple thousand in dealership markup, and it still ended up being $27k, which is well below the $30k some of you think it costs.
In other words, the Prius will be 40% cheaper than the Volt.
February 12th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Would it be much easier for GM to bring back the “Car of the Century” — that is the EV1?/! First, bringing back the EV1 would be far easier and more popular. Second, it could be done even with proven Nickel Metal Hydride battery technology. Third, EV1s could be on the streets of North America within months … and way before getting the Volt to market in a number of years? Possibly even before the Tesla starts hitting the streets. I’d get in line for an EV1 and even be willing to pay $35K for an EV1, Why, I’d even trade in my 2005 Prius for an EV1. And America would have an All American Car once again, powered by American electrons with the EV1.
February 12th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
Yes, 30k was doable for me but not 35. I am not in the bracket to pay this much for a car (even with the obvious benefits). They are going to lose market share & that will push the price even higher. What do they want? To sell cars and make this a staple, or push it out of the reach for the average consumer at kick off and use the price point as an excuse not to continue to bring the product to the market place. This saddens me.
February 12th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Rockmonster - see if you agree with my rough #’s in post # 115 and let me know how the 35k volt is no longer affordable if the 28k volt is? Not to criticize, just trying to understand different demographics.
February 12th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
It’s not surprising that based on supply & demand, the bean counters have forcast a $35k msrp on an initial 60k initial production run. Why sell them for any less when you know you can get $35k for them ?
The rest of us (lets say 70% of potential buyers) will just have to settle for something else.
Kudos to GM for at least bringing this tech to the forefront.
February 12th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
#116 Tom:
I think the important part of your post was this - “bought one of the new Priuses right when it came out”
I just went on the Toyota web site and priced out a fuilly loaded Prius. The price was $29,235.00
Will it go 40 miles in all electric mode? No.
Is it an American company? No.
Will it cut my current gasoline comsumption to less than 2 gallons per week? No.
To me that is worth the extra money, if the Volt is the vehicle I think GM is going to produce.
#117 EV Jerry:
This has been discussed many times, but the EV1 was never designed to be a car that would work all over the USA, so GM could not just bring that car back to life. Plus the true cost of an EV1 was estimated to be about $80,000 12 years ago…..
February 12th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Jim I
Great post
Wouldn’t want the facts to get in the way of a good argument.
February 12th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Tom,
For me in Canada it is even worse. At toyota.ca when I pick a 2008 standard Prius the base price is $29.5K before any options or anything else. Last time when I finished the entrie sequence I ended up around $35K
The second point is that the current Prius is not a plugin, so cannot compare it to Volt. The next version will be plugin with a decent size battery, so will cost more, easily $30K
That being said, if GM also slaps a $5K-$10K premium on Volt here in Canada then I just wont buy either one, Volt or Prius. We are being gauged right now.
February 12th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
Once again, I wouldn’t be caught dead driving a Prius. It’s almost as ugly as a Pontiac Aztec.
I don’t care how much money it costs.
I bought a $30k Mazda6 because it looked cool, handled good, and was fast. Not to mention it still gets 25-30mpg.
I would look for the same features in a modern Electric car as well, only without the need for gas.
February 12th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
Why doesn’t GM truly take a leadership role in reducing America’s dependence of foreign oil by bringing back the EV1? For the majority of
of Americans who own a second car the EV1’s range would be more than adequate. Is an automobile always destined to be a gasoline delivery system to maintain our addiction to oil? Even if EV1’s did not
go flying out the door the enormous increase in public good will toward
GM would be well worth it.
February 12th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
I agree with everything said @ February 12th, 2008 at 11:23 am
But I whan a high priced Volt with every bell and whistle they can fit into it. The more options the buyer has the better. Make a cheap no frills, a medium priced and an expensive luxury model
February 12th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
127 post in 1 day so far…….
Wow this is catching on! Congrats to all of us Grounbreakers
February 12th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
I guess we just have to wait and see how compelling the actual car is.
We were running our Corvette in the Palm Springs Vintage Races in 1992. Chevrolet was the sponsor of the weekend. They brought the prototype Impala SS diretly from the SEMA show. It was so more exciting than anything else they were offering at that time, we were just thrilled. Jim Perkins, then General Manager of Chevrolet, was there. I had a chance to speak to him. I said, “If you produce that, we will buy one, even if we have to take out a 2nd mortgage on the house.”
Eventually they did, and we made good on our promise. It was actually better than the prototype, with the LT1 driveline. We are still driving it. It has been almost bulletproof, and still runs as well as it ever did. It still turns heads in LA, which is not that easy to do.
The challenge to the Volt team is to produce something that exciting, whether by visual impact, or superior technology, or both. If they do, it will sell.
February 12th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
In 12 to 15 months, the next generation Prius will hit the showrooms, getting better than 50 miles to the gallon overall. It will be able to go 60 MPH in all electric stealth mode. And do so for about 7 miles. This car is expected to cost about the same as the current Prius, say $24,000. So if a person wants a car that can be plugged in to recharge, a Hymotion kit for $12,000 could be installed. Now the modified car can go 25 miles plus in stealth mode and is a plug in. And this may be available by late 2009. By 2011, the Prius will come from the factory with a Plug-in version, certainly sporting a price tag about $24,000 but probably not above $36,000.
February 12th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
RE: TAX CREDITS
I was surprised to learn that hybrid car tax credits are often wrongly understood to mean “tax deductions”, which are much less valuable. To be certain I’m not mistaken, I called my tax preparer, who has filed for hybrid car tax credits. He says….
“A tax credit for a hybrid car is obtained by filing for it with the IRS, BUT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR BRACKET OR WHETHER YOU OWE FEDERAL INCOME TAXES OR NOT. It’s also completely independent of any State income or sales taxes.”
So for example, if the Tax Credit for a Volt is $6,000 and you owe NOTHING on your 1040, you’ll receive a check from the U.S. Treasury for $6,000!
[Of course, if you owe any tax, that will be subtracted.]
February 12th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
People keep mentioning these $20K Priuses. What planet has those?!?
Here on planet Earth, my local Toyota dealership has ten 2008 Priuses on their lot with MSRP’s from $24K to $28K. Nothing cheaper.
I wonder what they will cost after three more years of inflation. Perhaps 30K?
I think I would prefer a $35K Volt over a $30K Prius.
February 12th, 2008 at 7:21 pm
Well, well, well, looks like GM is up to their games. I called this a year ago. This whole Volt thing is all GM public relations. I don’t know where all these dilusional people are coming from. I think a lot of these replies are GM employees trying to justify why everyone in the world should be hugging GM.
As far as Toyotas go, they are just as if not more American than General Motors. When we receive GM parts, all of the boxes say “Made in Korea”, ain’t that something? How about the fact that american Toyota factories are expanding while GM is trying to by out their employees.
The Toyota Prius can be had for 20k brand new at dealer invoice!! I worked at a GM dealership for yrs. and am still in the field but I do not currently work for GM or Toyota.
GM could very easily bring that the EV-1 with no modifications but to sell them with the better nickel battery and sell a million of them.Instead they choose have already chosen to help out the oil industry, crushing the EV-1s, and losing 39 billion dollars this past quarter alone.
GM has screwed themselves. Let’s hope they dig themselves out before all is lost.
February 12th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
Paul R, #131:
Well I don’t know about the planet Earth, but here in Southern California Toyota dealers have been advertising Priuses in the LA Times for $19,995 and $19,998 for the past 2 or 3 weekends. Granted, “One only at this price”, and they are no doubt the “Package 1″ strippers, but there it is.
Many more for $21,998 and so forth. These are “Package 2″, whatever that means.
February 12th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
Well, 35K is a bit much, but if it lives up to the hype I may be able to live with the sacrifice. Besides, its one less dollar that goes to Habib the Camel Jockey and Omar the Tent Maker. Count me in still…