Honda Says Chevy Volt Makes No Sense
Hot on the heels of Toyota’s negative comments about the Volt which we reported in our last post, Honda has taken it one step further, and right from the top.
Honda’s CEO Takeo Fukui told the Wall Street Journal that when lithium-ion batteries become available for them, a pure electric car would be the way to go. He feels a gasoline range extending engine, like the one planned for the Chevy Volt, was an unecessary addition.
He also said Honda could easily make a plug-in hybrid within 2 years, but wouldn’t do so because “I don’t think that would contribute to the global environment, to reduce [global warming gas] emissions” .
These are very big automotive companies going headlong into maligning the Volt. Either they know something GM doesn’t, or they are jealous ( I favor the latter). We shall soon see.
Source (WSJ)
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- Who’s Got it Right, GM or Honda?
- Chevy Cruze Versus Honda Insight
- Revenge of the Honda Insight
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58 Responses to “Honda Says Chevy Volt Makes No Sense”
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October 23rd, 2007 at 9:59 am
“Judge me by my enemies”
GM is doing something right. To be a leader, you have to be willing to face the criticism. It’s nice to see an American company (especially such a visible one) taking a leadership position.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:44 am
Honda was a great leader at the beginnig of the hybrid movement with the brilliant Insight. Since then, they have been eclipsed by Toyota. Who are they to talk?
Note their brilliant performance (not!) in Formula 1 racing this season. Before Sunday’s Grand Prix, Peter Windsor did inteviews with the drivers, asking them what was the most memorable event of the season for them. Honda driver Reubens Barrichello was just about to finish up his first season in about 15 years without scoring a single championship point. In fact, his engine blew up in the most spectacular way during the race. His comment was, “I just can’t believe how bad the car is - I just can’t believe how bad the car is”. Yeah, he said it twice.
Honda has a well deserved reputation for brilliant engineering and design, much of it derived from theri spectacular success in the motorcycle world. But, nobody’s perfect.
Bring it on Volt!
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:44 am
His view may make sense in Japan while not making sense in America. It seems like whether an EV is practical is what percentage of our daily driving needs it can fulfill. While on the average we drive less than 40 miles per day, often enough we drive 50,60, 100 or more. For occasional long trips we could rent a regular ICE vehicle, but I would think that most people would wan’t their primary vehicle to cover a very high percentage of their driving needs; i.e. I wouldn’t want to rent more than a few times a year.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:48 am
“He also said Honda could easily make a plug-in hybrid within 2 years, but wouldn’t do so because “I don’t think that would contribute to the global environment, to reduce [global warming gas] emissions” .”
What a crock. When the Volt takes off in 2010 or 2011 Honda, Toyota, and whoever else attack it are going to say, “Oh sh*t! We’re in trouble now!”.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:51 am
Some lead and others follow. It’s about time that GM was the leader again. I’m sure that GM is sick and tired of choking on the eastern rim’s dust.
Courage!
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:58 am
FACT: The technology to build the Volt is available today.
PROOF: The EV1 had a 75-150 mile range using technology from the 1990s.
The Volt only claims an electric range of 40 miles.
There are no technological hurdles left for producing the Volt. The technology is here today.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:59 am
Honda better get crack-a-lackin’ if they say that they can build an RxEV like the Volt in that amount of time. How about making that FCX of theirs a production vehicle with a 40 mile AER? I think that would be a really nice production car. Unfortunately, I consider their claim that they’ll ever build it to be dubious, though. Or how about a Honda EV. Like all the EV Pluses that they had crushed and removed from the memory of people on Earth? I’m not sure that Honda, Toyota, or most of the other automakers get it: The age of the petroleum-powered ICE is just about over. Electric drive technology is superior to all other kinds. And we Americans constitute such a large portion of the market, and we only like driving around when it’s cheap. Since it’s not cheap any more, we demand change. The prize goes to the company who gives us what we want. That prize? The market!
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:05 am
I’m not out to bash Honda or Toyota, but Mr. Fukui seems to be talking out both sides of his mouth. He states that he would not make a plug in hybrid because there would be no environmental benefit. But he also states that he would not make a RxEV, only a BEV. What would the point be in making a BEV if you don’t even see an environmental benefit of a PHEV?
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:08 am
It’s unbelievable that someone in this exalted a position can be so thoroughly
ignorantt, so we have to assume the more likely : he (believe it or not) claims the typical hybrid is superior to a conventional plug-in (you, know, the ones Honda builds). His remarks are so transparently false and self-serving that one must conclude that this gentleman
has apparently been hero-worshipped by his
countrymen for so long that he assumes that anything he says will be received as if from an oracle or demi-god. He can’t, of course, admit that the cars he is truying to sell have an inferior technology. That would get him fired in short order.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:12 am
I hope GM realizes how big of an opportunity they have… after years of getting out maneuvered by foreign competition, GM finally has the chance to leapfrog the competition and show real leadership. GO GM!!!
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:13 am
[quote comment="11816"]I’m not out to bash Honda or Toyota, but Mr. Fukui seems to be talking out both sides of his mouth. He states that he would not make a plug in hybrid because there would be no environmental benefit. But he also states that he would not make a RxEV, only a BEV. What would the point be in making a BEV if you don’t even see an environmental benefit of a PHEV?[/quote]
You are dead on!
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:17 am
A quote from M Gandhi (referring to British rule in India):
First they ignore us.
Then they laugh at us.
Then they fight us.
Then we win.
Stage 2: Looks like we / GM have reached stage 2. Carry on laughing I say, laugh all you like!
Stage 3: To be competitive you need competitive batteries, and GM may well have locked up the most competitive batteries. So Toyota and Honda may actually be right to not make an RxEV if they don’t have access to competitive batteries. If that’s the case GM will have the upper hand for step 3. (Assuming EEStor does not release something amazing.)
Stage 4:
I hope GM eats their lunch.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:20 am
Interesting, this seeems to be being reported in two different ways. Here is the quote according to Bloomberg:
“The currently proposed plug-in hybrids are like a battery electric vehicle equipped with unnecessary fuel capacity and an engine,” said Fukui. “I don’t think that will contribute to the global environment or to reducing carbon dioxide.”
Here the quote is not about plug in hybrids as WSJ claims… it is about the range extender portion. It makes more sense.
I believe Honda’s plan is:
1) Working towards a cost-effective ($1,750 premium) hybrid in the very near future.
2) If batteries make it possible, all-electric (i.e. no range extender).
3) Hydrogen and FCX as soon as possible (10 years?)
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:42 am
There is a good point about using a range extender that only gets used maybe 10% of the time for many users. There is a high embedded environmental cost for the range extender.
However, to offset this:
The ICE is smaller (less embedded cost than larger ICE).
The expected lifetime of the vehicle should be greater. Even if you have to replace the battery after 10 or 15 years (when it will be much cheaper). If the range extender only has 20,000 miles on it after 10 years, it won’t be worn out. So maybe average lifetime of vehicles will increase beyond 17 years.
Not fighting over oil has benefits.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:53 am
You can also use a fuel cell. I’m not just bashing Honda when I say ‘How about making the FCX an RxEV?’ GM showed off their fuel cell Volt in Shanghai back in the spring. But I also recommend making the Civic Hybrid a PHEV with a 10 mile AER. Also bring back the Accord Hybrid, and when the Fit and CR-Z hybrids come out do the same for them. I think an Accord PHEY would be a big seller. Just like the previous Accord Hybrid, but with the kick-ass redesign and fuel economy to be proud of.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:55 am
GTX quoted:
“Interesting, this seeems to be being reported in two different ways. Here is the quote according to Bloomberg:
“The currently proposed plug-in hybrids are like a battery electric vehicle equipped with unnecessary fuel capacity and an engine,’’ said Fukui. “I don’t think that will contribute to the global environment or to reducing carbon dioxide.’’
This is not a very well thought out stmt. from Mr. Fukui regardless. This all depends on how the vehicle is driven. Certainly even if it was never plugged in(and it will be), not only will the Volt get better mileage than anything Mr. Fukui’s co. sells, but it could very well burn E85.
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:02 pm
He sounds like a kid who’s too chicken to jump off the monkey bars. “Well, I could if I wanted to!”
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:29 pm
The A123 technology is the Rosetta stone that unlocks the feasibility of the serial hybrid design. Japanese suppliers do not have the technology. They are not able to make a long lasting serial hybrid, so it’s no surprise that they are downplaying the significance.
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:48 pm
I think we shouldn’t assume that this guy is ignorant or stupid.
He may be implying that batteries will be so good in the next few years that an ICE really will be superfluous. Example, Altair Nano’s battery can supposedly be recharged in 10 minutes without damaging it. If the gov’t mandated that every gas station had to have charging equipment for a Phoenix, I could see myself getting one vs. a Volt. (But I don’t see the chargers happening anytime soon and I’m not sure I believe the 10 min. recharging time.)
Or he could be worried that people are too lazy to plug in their cars and if the mileage is good enough from the ICE, they will just continue to drive using gas and the car won’t be any more efficient than a Prius/Civic Hybrid.
Personally I wouldn’t mind the ICE in the Volt even if I never used it. I think the ~70 HP engine in the Insight was ~120 lbs, so I wouldn’t be surprised if the entire generator was only ~200 lbs. Not a tiny amount of weight, but compared to EV battery packs that have typically been around 1000 lbs, it’s pretty insignificant.
October 23rd, 2007 at 1:25 pm
it doesn’t matter how much range an electric car has. Someone will always say “what if I want to go 10 miles further?” noons will want to own one car that doesn’t have unlimited range. Married people may someday have a full electric commuter, but he will want to have his spouse have at least a gasoline range extended car.
Even a tesla won’t get you to vegas from la and you still have to worry about finding a charge spot.
October 23rd, 2007 at 1:35 pm
Vman, That may be true. But only for the time being. When batteries can be recharged in 5 minutes and go several hundred miles on a charge, then there will be no need to have a range extender. But for now………Well for now, we are stuck with the technology that is currently available to us. There’s not much we can do about that other than to sit tight and wait. Unfortunately.
October 23rd, 2007 at 1:55 pm
It’s very simple- Toyota is sticking with a parallel hybrid system, has no PHEV ready for the big time, therefore a RxEV is a poor choice. Honda is introducing some new and improved diesels as their energy efficient low greenhouse gas emmission play and is not even in the ballpark for bringing hybrids to the next level, therefore a RxEV is a poor choice.
GM is going to beat these companies to the punch with a very significant technology; they therefore must downplay the significance of that accomplishment ahead of time. Basic marketing. But stupid.
As to why RxEV vs BEV. Which is bigger waste, a small ICE that is rarely used but allows for unlimited range, or five times as many batteries with their weight and cost in order to give range enough to drive all day without recharge, an occurance that will rarely be used but a functionality that an American consumer demands?
The Altairnano battery type will have its place. It is a great choice for a high milage fleet vehicle that has access several times a day to a central recharge point along its circuit - cabs, buses, garbage and delivery trucks, etc. But they are a long way from being a reasonable choice for the typical American consumer who is wont to give up functionality especially at increased cost.
October 23rd, 2007 at 3:01 pm
It seems that the term “PHEV” already has specific connotations. A PHEV is seems to be a conventional parallel hybrid that can do around 10 miles all electric range, if driven slowly. This is kind of surprising, given that nobody has offered a PHEV for sale yet, but there it is.
Takeo Fukui is saying that PHEVs are not that great for emissions, which aligns with the connotations of PHEVs described above.
So Bob Lutz is smart for saying that the Volt is not a PHEV, but rather a “range extended electric vehicle” - thus defining a new beast.
Several folks on this post seem to suggest “RxEV” as the appropriate acronym. I would suggest “EVRX”, for 3 reasons:
1) It puts the EV first, which means that it is foremost an electric car, but with a range extender.
2) You can kind of say it as a word – like “Evrex”, instead of pronouncing each letter separately.
3) It puts the X at the end (like the word “sex”), and even has an E in there before the X, so this is much better from a marketing standpoint.
So let’s get these EVRX vehicles on the road!
October 23rd, 2007 at 5:48 pm
Several folks on this post seem to suggest “RxEV” as the appropriate acronym. I would suggest “EVRX”, for 3 reasons:
1) It puts the EV first, which means that it is foremost an electric car, but with a range extender.
2) You can kind of say it as a word – like “Evrex”, instead of pronouncing each letter separately.
3) It puts the X at the end (like the word “sex”), and even has an E in there before the X, so this is much better from a marketing standpoint.
4) Rx Usually stands for a Prescription and would be confusing.
October 23rd, 2007 at 5:49 pm
Takeo Fukui said: “I don’t think that would contribute to the global environment, to reduce [global warming gas] emissions”.
Sorry Takeo, but global warming or the environment has never been an issue in my mind as I consider a RxEV like the Volt. If it has that benefit, fine! But, my issue is getting free of middle east oil and reducing the cost of driving.
October 23rd, 2007 at 5:53 pm
It’s been said on this board that most non-technical people don’t care how the car is propelled and therefore it doesn’t matter if both are considered “hybrids”. I could not disagree more.
The people I’ve talked to who have ridden in a Prius or other hybrid have stated that they like the initial electric drive, but aren’t crazy about when it switches over to the ICE.
It would definitely be important to these people to know that an EVRE or EVRx does not switch over. You could almost think of it as an EV-1 with the shortcoming addressed…weeeellll…it’s a little more than that, but anyway.
October 23rd, 2007 at 9:11 pm
GM has to be delighted that two of their largest competitors show no signs of pursuing EFLEX-like technology. The longer Toyota, Honda and the others stay confused, the longer GM will have to take market share away from them.
But Toyota and Honda will have some interesting offerings. Honda is supposedly working on a purpose-built highly efficient vehicle for release in the next several years. And, Toyota has been showing a Prius with extra NiMH batteries in it.
October 23rd, 2007 at 9:26 pm
The Volt sounds like the perfect car.
It would allow commuting to and from work mostly electric, but still have the range of a regular fuel car. The 10-20 mi “plug-in” range that Toyota may be offering in the future is not adequate.
I’m hoping in time that electric outlets will be avilable at work so it would be possible to rely on electric energy > 90% of the time — near zero emissions!!
Also, for those living in the Northwest/midwest electric only is not as well-suited, as the capaciaty of a battery is much less during the colder months of the year. The hybrid compromise is unbeatable.
October 23rd, 2007 at 9:35 pm
I actually take Honda very seriously. Honda is an engineering company, a company that makes engines and happen to make cars as well. They do make bad business decisions of course (Honda Accord Hybrid was a mistake) but I do value their engineering opinion. I wonder why they do not like Volt. Maybe they think fast charging electrics are just around the corner? Maybe they think an engine that barely used will be a headache for owners that will try to run it once every 6 months on stale gas? I really wonder. It is hard for me to imagine that respectable companies like Honda and Toyota would simply bad-mouth Volt because they cannot get the batteries to make one themselves. I also don’t believe that they are simply blind and don’t think people would not be interested in this type of hybrid - they invented hybrids themselves. They might be seeing something we do not.
October 23rd, 2007 at 9:53 pm
Maybe they think an engine that barely used will be a headache for owners that will try to run it once every 6 months on stale gas? I really wonder. It is hard for me to imagine that respectable companies like Honda and Toyota would simply bad-mouth Volt because they cannot get the batteries to make one themselves.
=====
Gee I dunno’. Maybe it’s because they’ve sunk “billions” into parallel hybrid technology only to wake up one morning and realize that it’s obsolete. Annnnnd…if that’s true, then they’re really behind the curve.
Personally, I wouldn’t want a nightmare like that….would you?
M.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:06 pm
Szyszek Says:
“It is hard for me to imagine that respectable companies like Honda and Toyota would simply bad-mouth Volt … they invented hybrids themselves.”
As I understand it, the hybrid concept came out of the U.S. during the Clinton era. GM and Ford were supposed to produce them quickly, but backed out, leaving Honda and Toyota with the first production hybrids. So I think saying that Honda and Toyota invented hybrids is not quite correct.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:21 pm
And American companies the past few years have been particularly “mum” WRT to hybrids, while the Japanese have been rolling them out.
When it becomes apparent that GM is much further along than anyone expected on the Volt, you’ve got to wonder…silent surprise??
Who’s got whom?
M.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:24 pm
Just to be clear, even if Honda and Toyota are making an enormous strategic blunder, they are really not that far “behind” GM, because GM is simply not that far “ahead.” All of these companies can make electric cars with generators at the drop of a hat.
An example of a company really having an insurmountable technology lead is Toyota with its hybrid drives. Apparently those are sophisticated enough that Ford and Nissan just gave up and licensed drivetrains from Toyota. But luckily the Volt should be much much much simpler than a Hybrid Synergy Drive.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:29 pm
“When it becomes apparent that GM is much further along than anyone expected on the Volt, you’ve got to wonder…silent surprise??”
Well, Bob admitted that he came up with the idea when he heard about Tesla, so I don’t think they have been planning it for years and just waiting for batteries to become available.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:38 pm
An example of a company really having an insurmountable technology lead is Toyota with its hybrid drives. Apparently those are sophisticated enough that Ford and Nissan just gave up and licensed drivetrains from Toyota. But luckily the Volt should be much much much simpler than a Hybrid Synergy Drive.
======
That’s exactly the point. Where did that lead come from? Osmosis? No…investment in parts, technology, research, and process. This is not free, nor has it ever been and that same company is now saddled with it.
The Volt will license nothing (unless I’m wrong) from Toyota. Toyota on the other hand has sold every Prius since inception at a loss, and had huge aspiration for the product. I wouldn’t be surprised to hear “sour grapes” WRT the Volt on behalf of Toyota Execs.
Need I say more?
M.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:31 pm
Mckallb it exactly right. Toyota and Honda have invested a lot of funds in their current hybrid technology and want to get a return on their money …not have it be obsolete in a few years. I am sure A123 or LG would be happy to sell them their lithium batteries as well. I doubt GM has an exclusive license on the batteries. I wish this were not the case because I am a buy American guy …never owned a foreign car. I would like nothing better than to have GM kick Toyota and Honda butts.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:56 pm
Szyszek, I doubt any corporate type “came up with the idea” of the Volt, though they might like us to believe that they did. I would imagine that the Volt is the product of a lot engineers talking over coffee and beer for years, and then their boss stepped in and said that he had an idea about how Electric Vehicles should have a Range Extender! Which means that the Volt could be built now, either NiMH or the current types of LiIon batteries could supply enough energy to give a Cobalt platform at least a 20 mile range, and since it would have a Range Extender, that wouldn’t be a deal killer.
Toyota and Honda have bet on the wrong horse, and now they are insulting the colt that looks like it might win the triple crown.
October 24th, 2007 at 12:10 am
zivbnd,
True, I don’t think Bob is a automotive genius and one day said - Eureka! I just invented a Volt! But like in my comment before regarding Toyota and Honda inventing hybrids - it does not matter who came up with an initial idea, it matters who can actually build and sell one.
Well, the bottom line is that it does not matter what Honda and Toyota are saying. If the Volt is as good as Bob says it is, Toyota will be able to put their Synergy Drive in a museum. We, the consumers, are voting for the best design with our wallets. Nobody can tell us what to buy. So, if the Volt is really as good as they say it is, my vote goes to Chevy.
By the way, anyone actually went to a Chevy dealer to put their name on a list? Can you do that? Or they will just tell you to buy a Cobalt today or come back in 3 years?
October 24th, 2007 at 8:44 am
Szyszek, your point is well taken, I just am incredibly fired up about the concept of the E-Flex and Lutz strikes me as a person who would walk away from it in a heartbeat if his accountants change their analysis slightly. This car/system literally can change the world, and it looks cool, as well! I just want to hear about the mules being tested and soon after, about the prototypes with the A123 battery packs getting on the road…
Put a little wind generator on the roof, maybe some photovoltaics, buy a used NiMH pack, or even lead acid, and visit Exxon maybe once every 6 months, if I’m feeling generous…
One can dream.
October 24th, 2007 at 10:38 am
Szyszek, #38:
I really like the idea of a list.
I made this comment here once before, so forgive me if you have already heard this one. Szyszek’s suggestion is such a good one though, that I wanted to follow up on it.
Some weeks ago, I called the Chevy dealer where we bought our last truck. They are a pretty aggresive group. We got a great price, and they keep following up with us.
I said that I would put down a $2500, non-refundable, cash deposit right now. They called back and said that they cannot take deposits yet.
They said that they would start interest list, and that I was the first entry.
I think that, if dealers started to get calls from people wanting to be on such a list, the word would filter up to the Ren Cen pretty quick. Maybe that’s a way we can generate a little grass roots pressure to kep them from going south.
October 24th, 2007 at 11:27 am
The solar roof idea is usually derided as adding only some few miles to the charge. But what if the solar roof could be extended the length of the car when you park to become almost a solar carport?
Most of us in California park 8 hours in the sun and then get into an uncomfortably hot car at 5.30.
14 feet X 6 feet wide of solar panel in a thinfilm you just unroll over the top when you park - staked with poles at the 4 corners - how much could that provide? More than just the airconditioning savings, right?
October 24th, 2007 at 11:33 am
…and when driving, you would store it folded in 1/2 (to 3 feet wide) and rolled up in the trunk) with the 4 poles telescoped down to 3 feet long
October 24th, 2007 at 11:46 am
Susan,
The real question is, “Would you really be willing to plug in your car at night?” I’m not trying to flame you - I just wanted to show that the comments from Toyota (previous post) are really out of touch. In fact, some people (yourself) would be willing to go way beyond just plugging their Volt in.
To seriously respond to your question, you would be much better off with a permanent, cheaper installation at home which could make you more money by selling power back to the utility at a higher rate than you would pay to get the same charge for your Volt at night.
October 24th, 2007 at 12:30 pm
Yeah,
I would: I currently am in the process of swapping my $100 electric bill for a $100 solar (loanpayment) bill at home, and do plan to plug in at night, like I would plug in a cellphone at night.
Most people, (like I was) are ignorant of the fact that in some states putting solar on your roof is as cheap as paying a dirty electricity bill.
Heres one cost calculator:
http://sunpowercorp.cleanpowerestimator.com/default.aspx
October 24th, 2007 at 12:46 pm
…surely this massproduceable rollout solar carport idea could be relatively cheaper for GM to offer as an extra with the Volt, even though people will plug in at home, obviously as well.
…since a good part of the reason solar roofs are more expensive is the aftermarket renovation cost of sending guys up onto peoples roofs to fit something to differing roof shapes.
Especially for Volt buyers who can’t put solar in at home, who really want to help cut their use of dirty electricity?
My question is to engineers out there: how much could a solar roll carport this size add to the Volt’s range?
October 24th, 2007 at 1:57 pm
I should have stated that I would put the wind generator and the photovoltaics on the roof of my HOME, that is why I would need the used NiMH battery pack to store the electricity from the PV and the generator…
I am not a fan of putting PV on the roof of a car due to the lack of appreciable energy gain.
I like the idea, I just don’t think it will work very well.
October 24th, 2007 at 3:43 pm
The RxEV concept is more than 100 years old. It’s simple enough to occur to any engineer frustrated by the range of an EV: “heck, let’s just put in a small generator!”.
I think no large car company has done it before, because 1) gas prices were too low, and 2) people who work in car companies weren’t really interested in making their careers and hard-won ICE expertise obsolete. Now gas prices are permanently high, and people in GM see the future of the whole company at stake,so everything has changed.
Susan, a 10 sq meter canopy (with 10% efficiency in a sunny area) could provide about 5 KWH’s per day , which would give a range of up to 25 miles, enough for a lot of people.
October 24th, 2007 at 4:03 pm
Jeff Neff at Autoblog comments on this issue. I love his no nonsense spin.
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/24/honda-takes-shot-at-chevy-volt/
October 24th, 2007 at 4:25 pm
Amazing… is all I can say. There two and only two possibilities.
1. He is exceedingly stupid.
2. He is a liar.
October 24th, 2007 at 5:30 pm
Thanks Nick,
So “a 10 sq meter canopy (with 10% efficiency in a sunny area) could provide about 5 KWH’s per day , which would give a range of up to 25 miles, enough for a lot of people.”
I’d think GM could make a springout rollup solar “carport” that suctioncups on for a couple thousand. Cheaper than a solar roof at home for many who commute just 12 miles.
I for one would like one.
October 25th, 2007 at 2:37 am
Hmmm.. and then someone walks off with a couple thousand dollars pretty easily.
October 25th, 2007 at 6:24 am
Mike G. “Hmmm.. and then someone walks off with a couple thousand dollars pretty easily.”
That’s the first thing I thought of. It is a good idea, but some people just aren’t honest.
October 25th, 2007 at 2:04 pm
Szyszek, I was at my Chevy dealer yesterday getting an oil change. While waiting I walked over to the sales dept. and asked about the volt. The recepton was pretty cold and negetive. Just guessing here, I think they are not interested in a car that is over 2 years away. They want to sell cars today.
October 26th, 2007 at 1:23 pm
Mike and Rashid,
True…so how about design the carport to be stealthproof: maybe you drive onto part of it to hold it over the car: its all one piece like a tent but made of a material that can’t be cut (yet still flexible to roll up in the trunk) just not suctioncupped ontop…a onevehiclesized version of this solar tent made for the military by Konarka:
http://www.konarka.com/products/
October 28th, 2007 at 8:53 pm
These replies are funny. Honda and Toyota are, right now, selling hybrid vehicles that have proved themselves and sell. GM isn’t doing anything right now. The Volt is a pipedream and until it is for sale, it means nothing. They are now pushing the Volt to at least 2011. GM had the hybrid Silverado which was a 1 mpg improvement. GM has way more to prove than Honda or Toyota. You people are on drugs and very dilusional.
November 20th, 2007 at 8:42 am
http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/?from=fcx.honda.com
November 20th, 2007 at 6:59 pm
Ruth and all who tout hydrogen
Hydrogen is just a storage mechanism for producing -that’s right- electricity. If the hydrogen costs as much to manufacture and distribute as gasoline, why bother switching? For all of the exciting methods that have been developed for manufacturing hydrogen, there’s no way there will be enough hydrogen to go around. Costs for an all hydrogen fueled economy would be no better, if not worse, than a petroleum based economy.
However, a similar issue potentially exists with electricity - what happens when even a fraction fraction of the US goes to electric cars. We should be concurrently working at upgrading our nations electric grid to deliver more power end to end. What is it now?… 1-5% efficient. The power drain and corresponding utility rate increase that could be experienced should not be ignored. Neither should we ignore the reality that hydrogen is an interim solution.
Personally, I’m more inclined to plug my car in at home overnight than have to wait 10 mins or more charging it at a station. Can any of you imagine waiting 10 minutes at a gas station today where you have 4-6 minute fill ups. 10 minutes is an eternity… at least until the technology of capacitors catches up with the electric car. But then why have gas stations at all if I can have a home capacitor (at a reasonable cost) to meet my needs? The petroleum infrastructure (read: gas stations) will suffer as a result of an all electric car. They will no doubt vie for hydrogen as hydrogen distribution will keep them relevant.
Ultimately, gasoline, ethanol (chuckle), hydrogen or any other alternative fuel is just a hiccup on the road to an all electric car/society.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:54 am
[...] We have previously reported how Honda CEO Takeo Fukui did not believe the idea of a rage-extended electric car made sense. [...]